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Author Topic: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:  (Read 27291 times)

grayman

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2016, 04:19:56 PM »

There's no need to point out where they are exactly. Sounds like you may be fishing for a spot.

Then report it to the DFO/RCMP.  And when you do, make sure to include....
Day of the week:
Time frame that this is happening between:
Location and how it can be accessed:
Description of these guys (type of clothes, height/weight, ethnicity, gender):
Any vehicle license plates numbers plus the direction of travel if it is mobile:

Authorities rely on the information the public provides and when it's pretty shoddy info...well, don't expect them to do much.
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Knnn

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2016, 04:42:46 PM »

Yes the google map shows the reserve boundary correctly. 

Quite a bit of Soowahlie I.R. #14 is located on the north side of the river and the boundary is situated just west of the store. Therefore, you are crossing their land to access the river behind the store and therefore, while unpleasant in the manner it is conducted, I believe Soowahlie members have the right to ask you to leave their land.  It should also be recognized that the frustration, anger and/or bitterness that is witnessed may have been building over many, many years (probably generations) because of the continuous and on-going disrespect for their land and boundaries (not just fishing, but high speed traffic and dumping of garbage in their community).

I do not know if and how the Navigation Act applies in this situation, if you were to walk from upstream or downstream below the high water mark.  Anyone know?

If you want to know exactly where the reserve boundaries are located for any reserve in Canada, do this:

1) Go here: http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/earth-sciences/geomatics/canada-lands-surveys/11092#CLGoogleEarth

2) Scroll down to Canada Lands in Google Earth.

3) Download the Canada Lands Overlay.  It is a kmz file compatible with Google Earth 4.2 or later.

4) Make sure you have google Earth installed and just double click the kmz file and it will auto install

5) save in my places and search for any reserve, or just zoom into the map.

As to why people do not know that the reserve extends onto the north side of the river, its probably because they did not, and do not care, until their 'rights'  are infringed upon.  Also the Soowhalie Nation and membership (on the whole) did not create too much fuss about the public accessing the north side, just the south side.

This is exactly the same situation on Capilano I.R. 5, Squamish Nation, North Vancouver.  The members fish the east side of the Capilano estuary and even though the west side is also reserve land, they let others fish the west side (sometimes with a bit of good-natured bantering or sometimes bickering).  The Squamish will also take fish by snagging, nets and rock weirs.

I am not sure that DFO is obliged to respond to reports about FN harvesting techniques.  This may be a political issue or because it is a harvest (a selective food fishery under DFO permit) and therefore the method of harvesting is not relevant, except for the potential to harm bi-catch?

Does anyone know if the DFO specifies how the fish may or may not be harvested under permit?

If the RCMP got involved, they would most likely ask the angler (as the instigator, i.e. trespasser) to leave Soowahlie land.

There seams to be a lot of outrage on this forum, but it is not clear to me why?  Is it because anglers are being told they cannot fish this section of river, because the land owners are getting pissed and mouthing off at trespassers or is it the use of harvesting techniques that are not sporting?  Certainly there may be some Soowahlie members who are bad apples that harvest fish outside of permit conditions and limits and may use inappropriate techniques (which are?) etc, but every group has its bad apples.  We do not need to look very far within our own community at how much snagging goes on.  I wonder what the FN to Non-FN snag ratio is on the Vedder during salmon season.  I suspect the FN members may have less of an impact that us 'sporties', but that's purely a guess. 

Now where did I put my Nomex undies.....


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Knnn

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2016, 04:47:42 PM »

Methods are mentioned in permits

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/species-especes/salmon-saumon/fisheries-peches/licence-permis-eng.html#First_Nations

Fisheries for food, social and ceremonial (FSC) purposes are authorized by a Communal Licence issued to individual First Nations organizations by Fisheries and Oceans Canada under the Aboriginal Communal Fishing Licences Regulations. Communal licences specify various conditions such as species, quantity, methods, location, and times. There are four general FSC licence categories.

Info on Aboriginal Communal Fishing Licences

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/licence-permis/licence-rec-ab-aqua-sci-eng.html#Abor-Autoc

To provide for the harvest of fish for food, social or ceremonial (FSC) purposes and related activities, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans issues communal fishing licences under the Aboriginal Communal Fishing Licences Regulations to Aboriginal groups. Communal fishing licences may specify fishing area, times, species, allocations, methods or other restrictions.

Only an individual who has been designated by an Aboriginal group may harvest fish for FSC purposes under the terms of the Aboriginal group's communal fishing licence.

AFS agreements contain other information related to the management of FSC fisheries and the issuance of communal fishing licences.

Does anyone know where I could find a link to the actual permit (Communal Licence) issued to Soowhalie?

I found an old one from 2014, here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eeKDYd3WpKYJ:www.lffa.ca/downloadable-documents/fishing-licenses/2014-licenses%3Fdownload%3D495:chinook-license-for-weekend-of-july-11+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

It indicates that only certain types and sizes of nets must be used and all efforts must be made to return non-target species to the water alive and unharmed.

This suggests that snagging fish would not be condoned by DFO, but they are not willing to make this a issue for political reasons perhaps?  Maybe next time someone phones in a report ask DFO if this is an acceptable practice, allowable under DFO licences and do DFO ever take action to to prevent willful snagging?




« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 05:02:17 PM by Knnn »
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GENERAL-SHERMAN

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2016, 10:35:16 PM »

I think its time to have a gravel removal near the on the way store below "moneys" run. bringing the river back to its old path and closer to public eyes will dramatically reduce confrontations between rec anglers and band members.
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glog

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2016, 08:24:26 AM »

Thanks for the map KNNN. its interesting when you overlay on google the low water areas are excluded from the boundaries. This means as long as you don't not enter or leave within the white boundary lines you are NOT trespassing. There are very easy routes that one can see that do not enter into the FN land. So the high to low water mark is still in public land.
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skaha

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2016, 09:51:19 AM »

--It doesn't matter where we think the boundary is. Obvious that those kicking us out of the area have a different view.
--Similar conflicts have occured around many "private lakes".
--Google earth is just another view...it is not a document of legal truth. It should be used as a general guide only.
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Fish or cut bait.

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2016, 09:53:13 AM »

Google maps are not updated daily.
So for folks that do use Google Maps, remember these photos are dated, though the FN land in question just IS.



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Knnn

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2016, 11:05:39 AM »

--It doesn't matter where we think the boundary is. Obvious that those kicking us out of the area have a different view.
--Similar conflicts have occured around many "private lakes".
--Google earth is just another view...it is not a document of legal truth. It should be used as a general guide only.

The kmz overlay into Google Earth, which show the reserve boundaries, is based on legal surveys conducted by Natural Resources Canada (the kmz is provided by NRCAN) and based on the work we do no FN lands, they are within plus or minus 1 m to permanent features displayed in Google Earth. So they are pretty accurate.

Thanks for the map KNNN. its interesting when you overlay on google the low water areas are excluded from the boundaries. This means as long as you don't not enter or leave within the white boundary lines you are NOT trespassing. There are very easy routes that one can see that do not enter into the FN land. So the high to low water mark is still in public land.

Yeah I was wondering about that myself.  There is a section of the Squamish River that is reported to owned by someone who owns land either side of the river and apparently they have the right to stop fishermen walking up and down the river below the high water mark.  however, I have never confirmed this.  I have always assumed that under the Navigation Protection Act (previously the Navigable Waters Protection Act), anyone is entitled to move freely along "navigable" water below the HWL.

However, from limited research on the interzweb this right is no longer protected under the new Navigation Act:  "The Transport Department says that the right of navigation in any waterways not protected under the new act are still protected by Common Law". 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/11/06/navigable-waters-act-canada_n_2081211.html

Stream and lake beds are crown property. This was affirmed by the 1894 North-West Irrigation Act and by a 1932 Supreme Court of Canada decision.
The law also recognizes a public right to navigate over navigable waters. However, the difficult legal question is what constitutes navigable waters. There is no federal or provincial law defining this, nor is there any list of waters the public can use.

In International Minerals & Chemical Corp. vs. Canada,regarding Cutarm Creek in east-central Saskatchewan, the court defined a navigable waterway as one where “the waters connect places which in the normal course would facilitate travel, even recreational travel, on a route that would have a likelihood of reasonable appeal to members of the public as a route to be travelled.”

While the public has rights to access and use navigable waterways, this right does not include the right to cross private property to get to such waterways.

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?action=post;quote=379137;topic=40201.45#postmodify
http://www.producer.com/2004/03/public-access-to-waterways-on-private-property-the-law/

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NothingToSnagAbout

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2016, 11:13:08 AM »

Cool, so just keep a copy of the 1894 North-West Irrigation Act on me while wading and I should be fine?
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poper

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2016, 12:13:17 PM »

Yup, probaly should get it laminated just in case it gets wet.
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Noahs Arc

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2016, 03:14:36 AM »

The battle going on at Corbett lake just outside of Merritt comes to mind, although the owners have a little more money to throw at it.
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sugartooth

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2016, 07:06:02 PM »

Rodney. You mentioned that there is an ongoing email discussion about this issue. Are there any updates? 
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Rodney

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2016, 08:50:06 PM »

Rodney. You mentioned that there is an ongoing email discussion about this issue. Are there any updates?

So far the email has seemed to be one-way. ::) Only Chris and I are being noisy, the rest from the other side are busy I guess.

Johnny Canuck

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2016, 08:53:08 PM »

So far the email has seemed to be one-way. ::) Only Chris and I are being noisy, the rest from the other side are busy I guess.

Busy smoking salmon?
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RalphH

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Re: Soowahlie Netting and Snagging:
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2016, 09:07:39 PM »

The battle going on at Corbett lake just outside of Merritt comes to mind, although the owners have a little more money to throw at it.


Do you even know who owns the Corbet Lake Lodge?
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