Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

British Columbia Sport & Outdoor Lounge => Sport Chat => Topic started by: Spudcote on September 13, 2004, 09:01:46 PM

Title: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on September 13, 2004, 09:01:46 PM: Just wondering what you think might happen.
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Alex015 on September 13, 2004, 09:42:49 PM: don't count on it, get ready to watch some BRUTAL, BRUTAL hockey in the WHA... go watch some local Junior hockey, it looks like it's all we'll get this year.
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Fish Assassin on September 13, 2004, 10:18:39 PM: Speaking of the WHA what ever happened to the franchise that was supposed to come to Vancouver ?
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: blaydRnr on September 13, 2004, 11:26:26 PM: a lock out is long time coming. the players association and owners need to resolve their differences, one way or the other.
myself, i would like to see where gretzky and lemieux stand on the matter, considering they both played key roles in the creation of the 'million dollar' contract.

IMHO, the players need to wake up and smell the coffee. >:(
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Koho on September 14, 2004, 08:56:04 AM: There won't be a season. >:(

I wonder how Mario looks at it since he's still a player and also part owner right?
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: blaydRnr on September 14, 2004, 04:53:20 PM: Quote from: Koho on September 14, 2004, 08:56:04 AM
There won't be a season. >:(

I wonder how Mario looks at it since he's still a player and also part owner right?

(Lemieux)..."CBC news?...comment on player's salary?...justification of lockout? :-\...Uh...Uh.......Je ne parles pas anglais? :-[.... ;D
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Alex015 on September 14, 2004, 07:46:28 PM: why hasn't anyone come up with a camparison of the NHL salaries compared to other's, something like money/game to see how they are compared? anyone know if there has been anything like this?
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on September 15, 2004, 07:54:56 AM: We have a lock-out >:(
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Redeye on September 15, 2004, 08:03:58 AM: Quote from: Alex015 on September 14, 2004, 07:46:28 PM
why hasn't anyone come up with a camparison of the NHL salaries compared to other's, something like money/game to see how they are compared? anyone know if there has been anything like this?

Because you can't compare apples with oranges... sports like the NFL are much harder on the body that's why they only play once per week and have a much shorter career.... sports like MLB are much easier on the body so they play 3 days in a row sometimes or twice in one day (except the pitchers who are some of the most out of shape athletes in the world.... but they can sure throw a ball fast).... so you can't really do a money/game comparison because certain sports allow you to play more games or less games in a season.

On a side note... most pitchers don't even play the whole game ;D

I wish I was a pitcher in the MLB... only play 1 out of ever 4 games.... most of the time you don't even have to finish playing the whole game... don't have to worry about batting average... don't have to run fast...

But you do have to throw that ball pretty fast... still a pretty good gig if you can get it.
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: blaydRnr on September 15, 2004, 02:31:23 PM: Quote from: Redeye on September 15, 2004, 08:03:58 AM
Quote from: Alex015 on September 14, 2004, 07:46:28 PM
why hasn't anyone come up with a camparison of the NHL salaries compared to other's, something like money/game to see how they are compared? anyone know if there has been anything like this?

Because you can't compare apples with oranges... sports like the NFL are much harder on the body that's why they only play once per week and have a much shorter career.... sports like MLB are much easier on the body so they play 3 days in a row sometimes or twice in one day (except the pitchers who are some of the most out of shape athletes in the world.... but they can sure throw a ball fast).... so you can't really do a money/game comparison because certain sports allow you to play more games or less games in a season.

On a side note... most pitchers don't even play the whole game ;D

I wish I was a pitcher in the MLB... only play 1 out of ever 4 games.... most of the time you don't even have to finish playing the whole game... don't have to worry about batting average... don't have to run fast...

But you do have to throw that ball pretty fast... still a pretty good gig if you can get it.

the truth of the matter is, marketing.

most of the money is in the states. they control the market.
if a sport isn't american dominated, they don't like promoting it. the only reason why the nhl survives there is because of american ownership (of teams).

its wishful thinking (on the players part), to think that canadian dominated hockey will be put at the same level,
as american baseball or american football.

as much as i love hockey.....a lock out is exactly what the league needs to stop the bleeding.
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Bantam_50 on September 15, 2004, 06:57:10 PM: Keep them locked out....If the players really think that ALL the owners are racking it in....then why are prices continuing to skyrocket. This isn't the MLB or NFL.
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: blaydRnr on September 15, 2004, 08:59:13 PM: i don't know if its the players or their agents, but the bottom line is 'GREED'.
like any other business, it's the owners that takes all the risks. they're the ones who have to make the books balance and take all the hits when their team loses money. players on the other hand, are guaranteed theirs.

the people i really feel sorry for are those behind the scenes (concession stand attendants, maintenance, etc), but you never hear about them or their meager wages.

why else do you think, players can afford to stand fast on their demands? In any other fields, employees would go broke.

some players are going to europe to play, others are going to the minors to 'hone' their skills. either way, they're going to end up 'bumping off' players that would otherwise be playing.

I say it's time, that us fans, need to put our foot down and say enough is enough. after all, we are the ones who really decide what a player is worth. >:(
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Alex015 on September 15, 2004, 09:06:38 PM: the players taht are going to play semi-pro in europe are not going to make nearly the amount of money that they have made in the NHL... i know becuase i have played hockey with 2 people taht have played there. also, many of the players live i dunno how you would put it, but a "luxury life." they CANNOT afford to stay making 200k a year with the way that they live... it's impossible, just ask my man mike tyson ;D
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Koho on September 16, 2004, 08:13:54 AM: Quote from: Alex015 on September 14, 2004, 07:46:28 PM
why hasn't anyone come up with a camparison of the NHL salaries compared to other's, something like money/game to see how they are compared? anyone know if there has been anything like this?

Here are some salary charts I found for the 4 major pro leagues paid in the most recent season. These show the top 25 player salaries.

NHL top 25 salaries (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/salaries/top25.aspx?year=2003-04)

NBA top 25 salaries (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/salaries/top25.aspx?year=2003-04)

NFL top 25 salaries (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/top25.aspx?year=2003)

MLB top 25 salaries (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/top25.aspx?year=2004)

We see that the top salaries are in the NBA and MLB followed by the NFL and then the NHL.

A good comparison is between the NBA and NHL since they both play 82 games and play in the same arenas so they have about the same fan capacity. We see that at the very top end, the top NBA players salaries are more than double that of the NHL.

But then we look at the total payroll for the entire teams and we see that the NBA is still higher, but not much higher than the NHL. The highest payrolls are still in baseball and football.

NHL total payroll (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2003-04)

NBA total payroll (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2003-04)

NFL total payroll (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2003)

MLB total payroll (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2004)

So why the huge difference in individual salary but not much in total team payroll between hockey and basketball? Well, I'm guessing that because the NBA is a less physical game it only requires a full roster of 12 players. In the NHL, the roster is nearly double that. So the NHL total payroll needs to go to more players. Equipment costs are also more expensive in hockey compared to basketball.

To compare against football is more difficult because they only play 16 games a season but their stadiums fill 60,000+. Football also generates a lot of tv revenue. Look at all the games on tv every Sunday.

Baseball is another difficult comparison because the season is 162 games long and their stadiums can fill 40-50,000 fans. It also has a huge American following compared to hockey.
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: blaydRnr on September 16, 2004, 12:04:05 PM: great report. basically, that's what it comes down to....fan base. doesn't matter how rich an owner is or how good the players are, if the seats don't fill and the tv rating drops, the team ceases to exist.

unfortunately, too many 'pre madonnas' fail to see this or don't care because they've already made their millions.
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Fish Assassin on September 16, 2004, 07:39:39 PM: Thanks for the link Koho. Can't believe Bobby Holik earns $8.9 million a year. He's an average player at best.
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: Koho on September 16, 2004, 08:18:39 PM: 3 words explain Holik's salary... New York Rangers ;D

They try to outdo Steinbrenners Yankees
Title: Re:Hockey's future season...
Post by: The Gilly on September 17, 2004, 04:08:21 PM: Go Giants!
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on September 30, 2004, 05:10:27 PM: I haven't heard anything, has anyone else heard anyhthing of the players and the game coming back ?
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Fish Assassin on September 30, 2004, 07:05:05 PM: The NHL has cancelled all games scheduled for October.
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: 2:40 on September 30, 2004, 08:55:12 PM: Leafs were gonna win it this year too... >:(

DON CHERRY FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on September 30, 2004, 09:52:52 PM: Don Cherry...I dunno about PM, but he could have done a better job as Governer General, since Clarkson was just taken on for another term !!!
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: pepsitrev on October 09, 2004, 09:31:42 AM: who needs hockey with a river full of fish-fishon dudes ;D ;D
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on October 09, 2004, 04:37:54 PM: Gives us something to do while we rest our arms... ;D
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: bigguy on October 19, 2004, 10:59:24 PM: They like most pro athletes are way overpaid! And for Lindon (who I love) to compare them to doctors , give me a break! Find a GP who makes as much as Linden! What a laugh! Now if only us teachers could earn what we deserve???? :D
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: bigguy on October 19, 2004, 11:00:13 PM: Forgot, they can scrap the season for all I care! We can find something to do!! I might even read a book!
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on October 20, 2004, 10:44:22 PM: Still...I miss the odd game to watch after school
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: The Gilly on October 27, 2004, 09:47:04 AM: Guy LaFleur say today that the NHL should declare bankruptsy and start over. He thinks the players are sick. They will play in Europe for $200K but won't play in North America for $2M. Good to see an old player give it to the new guys. Greed has taken over the sport. I started off blaming the owners because they offer and pay the salaries. I now blame the players. They don't even want to talk. What are they Teamsters or IWA (Sorry for the insult to the Teamsters and IWA). I would be happy if the NHL fired the lot of them and started out with replacement players. I bet they would all be back on their knees within months. How can they continue to survive in the manner that they are accustomed. I'd give my eye teeth to make that kind of money for 10 years. Hell, 5 years. I'm thoroughly discusted with the player union ::). To hell with you all. I've read 4 books since the beginning of Sept. I'm on my 5th and I won't put it down for hockey. What a bunch of morons.
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on November 17, 2004, 04:22:18 PM: Want the season back ?

http://www.640toronto.com/no_hockey/index.asp

Sign the petition
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on January 14, 2005, 07:56:58 AM: We had joy,
We had fun,
But the hockey season's done...
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Fish Assassin on January 14, 2005, 11:56:04 AM: Frankly I'm tired of hearing about the NHL lockout.
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: DragonSpeed on January 14, 2005, 02:55:23 PM: Hopefully soon, it'll all be over ::)
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: bigguy on February 01, 2005, 11:40:50 PM: Where is the options Arean football and dont care becuase baseball starts soon!!! Let them sit out for another year! >:(
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: bigguy on February 01, 2005, 11:48:46 PM: We can argue this point but there is more individual skill needed to play baseball at the professional level then any other sport! There is a reason why most pitchers can only throw once every 6 days and that is arm fatigue! It is very unnatural to throw a baseball and the damage it does to an arm is immense! Next time you pitch two innings of hardball measure your arms aroung the elbow area and see the difference you would be amazed! Sure the play is not overlly physical in terms of bodily contact but try hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely with the ball coming at you on average 88-90 mph and curving dipping or sinking! It takes far more individual talent then jamming the puck in front of a net and letting everyone slap at it! This should create some interesting comments!
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on February 03, 2005, 10:59:15 PM: I think I'll keep my comments to myself after something like that...

And the current lock-out doesn't help my position much...
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: The Gilly on February 04, 2005, 08:06:28 AM: OK, I'll take it on Bigguy. You're right. The human arm was engineered to throw underhand. Centrifugal force drives blood down toward the fingers, swelling a pitchers arm by up to 4" at the elbow. A batter has .3-.5 seconds to disern the rotation of the ball and choose to swing or stand. Contrary to popular belief, baseball is a very fast game. Plays are measured in in milliseconds. The fastest shot in hockey is less than 100 miles per hour. The average hit ball in the infield is travelling at 150 miles per hour.

Sorry, were you looking for someone to defend hockey (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_8_3.gif)
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: bigguy on February 04, 2005, 09:56:48 PM: I was! You impress me with your knowledge! How would you compare it to basketball! Do you think that the average sportsfan in Canada really understands baseball as a professional sport? I know most find it boring to watch! I love the strategy! And you Gilly?
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on February 04, 2005, 10:46:21 PM: Basketball seems to me to be a little too "back and forth" for my liking. In hockey, there's turnovers and it can keep changing directions, but I find Basketball to just go back and forth until one player slips up and causes one turnover to change the entire game, too much time until that change happens, not enough "action" for me...Also, the skill level is higher in hockey compared to backetball in how the players even get payed. Backetball players get paid more, but don't seem to do as much, and there isn't nearly as much strategy. I guess that the whole culture that comes with the sport really doesn't sit too well with me. I realize this is VERY stereotypical of me, but the rap (that comes with a lot of basketball...) culture seems to value materialism by buying stuff, and getting "action"...that's just one of those things that REALLY bugs me..start a new thread if you feel like ranting...hehe 8)

How's that for all you basketball fans... :P ;D
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: bigguy on February 05, 2005, 11:17:52 PM: I totally agree with you regarding the attitude of the league. I am not sure who they are trying to draw, the gansters or the normal folk. When guys like Allen Iverson and the likes become role models then something is definatley wrong! The NBA needs to look at this! :o
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on February 06, 2005, 12:07:57 AM: I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way, I was anticipating hate-mail after posting that... 8)

One thing that did occur to me is to compare how "tough" all these "playas" think they are. They go around talking about doing "stuff." Now compare this to a hockey player, or even a hockey fan. Who's tougher ?

"Put that in you're pipe and smoke it..."

Now back to baseball, I think that the reason it is less popular is because of the amount of tradition and strategy involved. People simply don't want to take the time to sit down and understand how the sport came to be, and what's involved in being successful as a player and as a team. (What I',m getting at is that there's more to it than basketball (are we noticing a common theme here...))

Hockey, on the other hand, cannot really be compared particularly well to baseball. They're VERY different games. There's no goals in baseball, not offside, and the game (in general) simply isn't as fast at all times as hockey. Both games require completely different types of skills (hitting a moving ball with a round bat, compared to hitting a stationary (sometimes) disk with a flat stick). The amount of precision in a "shot" is completely different between the two sports.
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Terry Bodman on February 06, 2005, 08:38:37 AM: Can't disagree with your assessment of the skill level required to play baseball and the difficulty in batting. The jury is still out however, on the difficulty of hitting a baseball and that of hitting a golf ball (accurately of course). In baseball's case the ball is moving at an incredible speed as well as moving at the pitcher's discretion. The golf ball on the other hand is stationary but a 1 degree error at contact means a 20-20 yard error down the fairway. A 2 degree errors and .....?There has been mega research done on this topic with no clear resolution.
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Koho on February 06, 2005, 01:01:27 PM: I hear it often that to hit a round ball with a round bat and to hit it squarely is one of the toughest things to do in all sports.
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: bigguy on February 08, 2005, 11:23:41 PM: Well in my many years of baseball and limited years in golf I would agree that hitting that little *&^%er is harder, at least for me! Golf is an entirely different thing, I am decent at the sport but it takes a great deal of patience to play the game good enough to be an under 10 handicap. I think we agree that each sport has it's difficult skills especially at the pro level! I can imagine pitching in front of a few thousand people but to drive off a tee with 10 people watching scares me to death! :-[
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: DragonSpeed on February 09, 2005, 05:48:10 PM: Quote from: bigguy on February 08, 2005, 11:23:41 PM
I can imagine pitching in front of a few thousand people but to drive off a tee with 10 people watching scares me to death! :-[

Is that because you're afraid you'll hit them? :D

I whacked one right off the heel of a driver once, and squarely into my dad's back. I have always been VERY careful about making sure all around me were behind me since then ::)
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: The Gilly on February 09, 2005, 08:22:33 PM: Basketball!!!! I'm 5'8" tall. What would I know about basket ball ;D

Baseball is my game and SS is my fave spot to play. The best batters aren't the ones that hit huge homers, but the ones that can put it into play where they want it to go. Watch the batters that have an ability to hit lots of singles. Those are the real skill batters.

I also love Soccer and Football too. Basketball is OK to play, but can someone explain an illegal defence and what's with all the damn time outs making the last 2 minutes last an hour. ::)

As for golf...I like to play it too, but why would I buy one of those big drivers just to hit the ball further in the bush ;D You guy's should try and hit it off the tee with my little driver from 1986. Now that's skill ;D

Back to the hockey. My drop dead date was Jan 15. See ya next year...maybe.
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: leaseman on February 11, 2005, 02:35:24 PM: Last one out shut off the lights and lock the door........................
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: The Gilly on February 14, 2005, 09:19:59 AM: (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif)
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Koho on February 15, 2005, 09:39:02 PM: On another note... pitchers and catchers are starting to report! ;D
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: DragonSpeed on February 15, 2005, 11:37:29 PM: Quote from: moosefinder on February 11, 2005, 02:35:24 PM
Last one out shut off the lights and lock the door........................

Yup....stick a fork in it....This one's done.
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: The Gilly on February 16, 2005, 08:31:30 AM: http://www.eventsounds.com/wav/bugsbye.wav
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: the_pict on February 16, 2005, 09:32:12 AM: tha tha tha tha thats all folks ;D
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Fishin Freak on February 16, 2005, 10:48:16 AM: Good ridence to all those greedy players! They should go back to being payed a few dollars per game and holding down a second job.
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: Spudcote on February 16, 2005, 03:41:13 PM: T'is over...sad to see it happen...
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: DragonSpeed on February 16, 2005, 03:48:26 PM: Finally room for some REAL sports news ::)
Title: Re: Hockey's future season...
Post by: the_pict on February 16, 2005, 05:02:43 PM: i think the big question now is who is gonna cave in first. id go with the players