Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: markyboy on October 01, 2015, 07:59:20 PM
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I'm new to the Vedder this year and have read a lot in posts saying that there is lots of good, quiet spots on the Vedder if you are willing to explore. I've tried hard to spend as much time exploring the last couple of weeks as I have fishing and seem to have missed most of the spots.
I'm wondering if the 'fishable' water is less because the water level is fairly low? For example some of the spots I found that were quite nice runs a week and a half ago are now really quite shallow and rocky. Earlier this week I hiked the river from below Thomson park all the way up to Osborne road (with all the crowds fishing the deep pool) and found water that in my opinion seemed to be too rocky, too fast to consistently fish. Yes there was some small pocket water around rocks but even if I landed my float in the exact spot, it would only be there for a couple of seconds before disappearing way down the river due to the torrent of water. I hiked into another spot way upriver but after about 20 minutes, found that there were only two spots and each already had two fisherman there.
So my assumption is that once it rains some more, there will be more fish spread out throughout the whole system and more fishable water for us all. Is this correct and I just need to join the crowds until the rain comes, or do I just need to hike more, or should I shorten up my float to a foot and fish the shallow water that no one else fishes?
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A couple weeks of exploring is a start.
I've only done it for a few decades and hopefully for a few more.
Rivers change every year, some portions more than others.
There's been good days and lesser days for some but I think it's the spoiled some got from pink fishing or the unrealistic expectations percieved.
It only seems like everyone is catching when you read the bragging or err I say reporting some post on line.
There's always someone who'll catch and there a lot that won't.
Though the odds get better for those who've done it a bit more and those that can get out a bit more.
Have patience or quit.
It's not a video game though every new guy seems to think there's a cheat sheet to success.
It's one of those old school games where you actually have to put in some time to be successful and where having success isn't a measure of how good you are but mearly a step closer to being so.
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Have patience or quit.
It's not a video game though every new guy seems to think there's a cheat sheet to success.
It's one of those old school games where you actually have to put in some time to be successful
Not very helpful or encouraging. I Have lots of patience and i'm not a video game type who expects success so unless you know me don't be so sanctimonious. If everyone was to follow your example there would be no point in this forum.
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Not very helpful or encouraging. I Have lots of patience and i'm not a video game type who expects success so unless you know me don't be so sanctimonious. If everyone was to follow your example there would be no point in this forum.
Agree it wasn't. But this type of question gets asked over and over, and certain members have less patience themselves. ;)
This forum is not about the river, this forum is about the act of fishing itself. To learn new techniques, and to discuss all things fishing. People are very tight lipped because those quiet spots won't be quiet if they tell you, and everyone else who's searching these forums for this type of information.
I think what you're doing is good, keep at it. Yes a lot of decent spots become less decent due to low water.
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A couple weeks of exploring is a start.
I've only done it for a few decades and hopefully for a few more.
Rivers change every year, some portions more than others.
There's been good days and lesser days for some but I think it's the spoiled some got from pink fishing or the unrealistic expectations percieved.
It only seems like everyone is catching when you read the bragging or err I say reporting some post on line.
There's always someone who'll catch and there a lot that won't.
Though the odds get better for those who've done it a bit more and those that can get out a bit more.
Have patience or quit.
It's not a video game though every new guy seems to think there's a cheat sheet to success.
It's one of those old school games where you actually have to put in some time to be successful and where having success isn't a measure of how good you are but mearly a step closer to being so.
LOL who pissed in your corn flakes? He asked a very legitimate question. I guess you've never asked any? If you don't like what's being posted (apparently it's all just braggarts and newbies looking for handouts anyways) then why be here??? Do you know what bugs me wayyy more than the above mentioned posters? People like you. I'm sure You know the old saying about having nothing nice to say...
Markboy, I've had the same problem as you with the Vedder. More water will definitely improve things a lot. I don't even bother fishing that river when the conditions are like this, but persistence will pay off, and eventually you will probably find some decent holding water somewhere that's free from the hoards. When the fish are moving, I have seen people get them out of that skinny water you talk about, but whether the fish are biting or being lined I'm still unsure of. Haven't had much luck in it myself.
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Markyboy,
Keep up the exploring!! Yes the water conditions are a tad bit low for some of those middle and upper river spots, however, seeing them this low should give you an idea on fish travelling lanes and holding spots come the higher water.
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Every river is different every time I go out. For that matter, every fishing place is different every time, except for lakes. I've stopped having any expectations beyond that I'll do what I can when I can to adapt to what is in front of me at any given time. But yeah, I think low water levels will have a definite impact on how fishable it is. Just keep going out whenever you can.
You could also do a walk and wade guided trip to see a few spots. I did that at Fred's, it was a good introduction to the river. Lots more exploring for me to do as well. Last time I was there, I got fixated on fishing a spot that I caught a fish last time I was there. 6 hours of nothing at all when I should have moved on...
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A couple weeks of exploring is a start.
I've only done it for a few decades and hopefully for a few more.
Rivers change every year, some portions more than others.
There's been good days and lesser days for some but I think it's the spoiled some got from pink fishing or the unrealistic expectations percieved.
It only seems like everyone is catching when you read the bragging or err I say reporting some post on line.
There's always someone who'll catch and there a lot that won't.
Though the odds get better for those who've done it a bit more and those that can get out a bit more.
Have patience or quit.
It's not a video game though every new guy seems to think there's a cheat sheet to success.
It's one of those old school games where you actually have to put in some time to be successful and where having success isn't a measure of how good you are but mearly a step closer to being so.
Excellent reply. Straight shooting at its best, no bull, no nonsense.
I, for one, am flabbergasted that the original poster felt offended. Markyboy, you either need to grow a thicker skin, or stay home and off fishing forums where no one will hurt you.
You asked a legitimate question, and you got a legitimate, truthful (I highlighted the main parts), and non-sugar-coated answer.
One should not ask the question if they are not willing to hear the answer, as one will often NOT like what people have to say, especially because they have EXPECTATIONS. It is the nature of the Internet.
Don't have expectations and you will do fine. Enjoy the hikes, discover new water, take notes about water levels (you are bang on that there is less fishable water right now). A spot that is empty today might be crowded tomorrow. Heck, find another one, who cares?!?!
Kudos to fish or cut bait for saying it like it is, rather than providing some pointless, pat-on-the shoulder politically-correct but useless encouragement.
Edited to add: The rule of thumb is: 10% of the anglers catch 90% of the fish. Even the Internet couldn't change that. And to become part of the 10%, it takes a while. I have been fishing for 45 years and I am still not there myself. :-\
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Have patience or quit could mean put in the time, keep exploring or just quit for the day, not for your life. If you think it's hopeless - just walk another 1/2 km along the river to see what you find. Put on your Polaroids and look into the water. Be still, use brief current slicks as windows to study the bottom. You'll be surprised that spots that you think are fishless hold some nice fish.
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I get what fish or cut bait was saying; put in your time, don't expect it to be handed to you, etc. But Markyboy asked a series of valid questions, these to be specific.
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So my assumption is that once it rains some more, there will be more fish spread out throughout the whole system and more fishable water for us all. Is this correct and I just need to join the crowds until the rain comes, or do I just need to hike more, or should I shorten up my float to a foot and fish the shallow water that no one else fishes?
These are not the questions someone who is looking for a handout asks. These are the questions of someone who wants to learn.
2015 is one of the driest summers I have ever encountered. All the rain we have had will only brought the rivers up the levels they should of been at a month to a month and a half ago. I haven't been to the Vedder this year, had other pursuits. But if it anything like the local rivers it is about 3" - 5" below normal water levels. That makes a huge difference when it comes to salmon. Hiking is always good, take a camera with you. With this low water holes that you would not normally be able to see will be exposed. They will hold fish when the water levels rise, like in a normal year. Put them in a scrap book to keep track of where to start and how the river changes.
As for fishing the skinny water, yes it is true that you will blow through it pretty quick if the fish are there that will be all the time you need. There are techniques for shallow water. The only tip I will give about that is look into Great Lakes salmon fishing forums where it is more common.
There is a lot of varied water to cover in that system, it is a great place to learn and experiment should you want to try other rivers in the future.
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And to become part of the 10%, it takes a while. I have been fishing for 45 years and I am still not there myself.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! (slow motion sound)
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Accept that the C/V system is a godforsaken garbage strewn ditch-an urban fishery on par with the worst behaviour North America has to offer-there is No Escape.
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Fortunately I've not found it so, though my experience is limited.
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Accept that the C/V system is a godforsaken garbage strewn ditch-an urban fishery on par with the worst behaviour North America has to offer-there is No Escape.
LOL it has its moments
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Honestly if I'm looking to hike to a quiet spot, I would not go to the Vedder. There are a few other Fraser Valley streams that would probably be more suitable. Personally I'm a fan of the Squamish area rivers for quiet spots. Hardly see any people and see more wildlife.
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I've been searching for a quiet spot in the lower mainland, however, I also want to legally retain the fish I catch. I don't think I'm alone here but the Vedder has the most relaxed regulations which i think contributes to the crowds.
Squamish river only allows retention of (I think) 1 hatchery Coho per day and nothing else.
If the regulations were more standardized it might serve to spread the crowds out a little bit.
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Not every river has the same return and the same numbers. Can't generalize retention quotas on rivers that need help (limited retention or zero retention). Otherwise, our kids and their kids won't have anywhere to fish.
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Don't get me wrong. I think limits are extremely important and I wholly support the conservation decisions.
By "standardize" I mean taking the lowest or near-lowest and applying that across the regional rivers so there's no added incentive for people to hammer a specific river year after year and fish it into oblivion.
The Chilliwack/Vedder River has much higher limits than pretty much all of the alternate choices in the region so I think it's reasonable to assume that it, in turn, brings more fishermen.
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Ahh okay. Thanks to clarify haha. You never know. Some people's idea of standardize, would be to make them all like the Vedder... Not plausible!
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Put your time in and learn the river as I have and many others on this forum long before there was the Internet. There are less traveled areas of the Vedd to fish, but make no mistake, every inch of it gets fished on any given day.
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The Vedder has higher limits because it has a large and healthy hatchery program, which other streams do not, so it can offer more retention. However, while I agree that lower limits there may deter small group from driving the extra distance if they couldn't keep more than they could on their smaller local stream, I think many still would go there as they feel the chance for success is greater when the river has more fish returning. There will always be crowds as long as the hatchery keeps producing fish to catch.
As for your original question. The answer is, yes. Yes, higher water will spread the crowd out more. Yes, you could, in the meantime, hike more or join the crowds. After my only visit to the system this fall, I would not bet on your success of finding any water without someone already there, but you may only have to share with one or two guys as I did. Yes, you could shorten up your float and fish the water no one else is, you may get lucky.
And if you really want to experience frustration of trying to find fishable water without guys already fishing it, take up fly fishing. Your fishable water is reduced to a fraction and every piece of frog water has two or three guys already there. If you want quiet enjoyment there are other systems with fish to catch. You many not be able to kill as many as the Vedder, but honestly who needs a freezer full? I prefer fresh caught, and if I wanted frozen salmon the store is five minutes away and cheaper (no gas).
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The Chilliwack/Vedder River has much higher limits than pretty much all of the alternate choices in the region so I think it's reasonable to assume that it, in turn, brings more fishermen.
That and the fact it has some of the easiest access to fish a decent river.
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Boy oh boy some folks took liberty with what I posted!
Perhaps instead of the word QUIT I should have instead used words and phrases like: stop for a bit, slow down, don't over think it, go play with the puppies.
In all honesty if you're getting frustrated with your intended results I want you to quit.
I did not say give up fishing!
frustrated anglers (particularly new anglers) tend to resort to tactics that are either illegal or unethical
(rippin' grippen and snaggin')
because... well.. the tug is the drug for most of us.
For some it's the focus for others it's the bonus.
Now!
when I respond to posts I do offer up info, ideas and opinions
THAT IS WHAT A FORUM IS FOR!
Agree or disagree but tone is difficult to express but easily misinterpreted.
(unless you use terms like sanctimonious or pissed on corn flakes)
I will not openly discuss certain things or specific areas on an open forum.
Most of us don`t know each other and ones sincerity is always a question.
However, meet me on the river and if you`re sincere i`ll help if I can.
( I think I give away more jigs, floats and leaders than I actually lose)
OPEN FORUM: a forum that is is open to all whether one is a member or not.
This is not a private conversation!
When I do respond I am often responding not only to the OP but am makeing a general statement, because if you`re not aware...
there are a heck of a lot more folks (good and evil) viewing these conversations than just the members.
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No one pissed on my corn flakes however it seems someone didnt read the label well enough when they poured some on theirs`.
Sanctimonious: that`s a big word
image: http://cf.ydcdn.net/1.0.1.42/images/dictionaries/websters5.jpg
pretending to be holy or pious; affecting sanctity
self-righteous, smug, etc.
Origin of sanctimonious
; from sanctimony + -ous
Hiking to quiet spots on the Vedder?
This was the cryptic title for the thread.
with the opening paragraph referring to a couple weeks of fishing and exploring the Veddar and not being able to find a quite place.
(How many trips was that 2, 5, 14)
I went fishing over the last 4 weeks and had a few good days with some exploring in between and often had entire runs all to myself.
I also reccommend, that if you do find your quite place, whether it be a section of a river or a different river altogether that you keep it to yourself.
One Veddar is enough.
I realize I probably know the river better than some but please note: if you`re PARKING WHERE A BUNCH OF CARS ARE PARKED you probably won`t find quite
however those cars are parked there for a reason
As for low water limiting the fishable water:
It might shrink up some runs making less real estate for those that like to fish shoulder to shoulder
but it also opens up a bunch of places one couldn`t normally wade to.
As for the fishing, there`s so much to learn, so many variables.
Learn to fish low water, high water, dirty water,.. but, unfortunately it all takes time and even if the perfect book was written you`d still have to get out there to actually learn.
Be a fair weather angler and only fish sunny days during peak season where you find a rock and cast.
Or suffer through a season or two of paying attention and learning when you can`t find a rock.
I like to avoid the crowds and spend a lot of time hiking, sometimes the fishing is awesome, sometimes it`s just a hike.
Good luck (who`d I piss off this time :o)
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Great post FOCB! I'm of the opinion get out there and fish. It's the only way one will learn. Too many expect instant gratification from the internet.
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That's actually a really good point about lower water making some runs become available for wading. That's definitely happened for me.
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Markyboy you've taken the first step in the right direction by taking the time to search out an area on your own and get away from the crowds.
As you've said you didn't really find many productive holes except for the occasional rock. How will it look at higher water (only one way to know for sure :) ) Keep on moving now that you've eliminated an area.
Invest in 3 days to check out 3-4 different areas per trip to fish through runs quickly and move on to the next. You may catch fish, you may not but make notes about each area and the number of "productive looking" runs even if it's a small deeper hole that may hold fish. Always wear good polarized glasses, you will be amazed.
After those few days you should be able to have your own pieces of serenity on a gong show river.
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In your explorations, mark those locations that appear marginal at lower water. Old Blue is bang on. Water that is marginal at a lower level can turn into a sweet piece of soft water off the main current in higher water. Happened to me twice last year. In higher water one spot held jig hungry coho and the other held roe hungry chum, whereas in lower water both spots were empty.
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Well, all I have to say is who cares about being part of that mythical 10%. Being out doing this beats being at work any day of the week :)
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Maybe your first post was a little "rough" FOCB , but cleared up nicely on the second post , unfortunately (or fortunately ) recon is essential to fishing , when you are out looking for fishy spots if you are lucky some of the good guys on the river will help , but you still have to get out there
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Another question about this system that might draw some ire:
I'm unclear where the band land is, if at all. I've been to the Tzeachten website, plus Stolo and Squiala but there's no maps.
As an example there's this one for Squamish Nation/North Vancouver https://bctreatyprocess.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/squamish-development.jpg
(There's a bunch like this, plus signage so it's pretty clear where not to fish)
Are there "MUST AVOID" sections of C/V?
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Here is what I have done;
I fish the C/V a few times a year for steelhead with limited success.
I don't fish it during the summer/fall months for pinks, springs, coho or chum.
I fish other systems that have little to no traffic, with limited to moderate success. But the no traffic thing trumps all for me. I need relaxation, at least some level of seclusion (when not fishing with a buddy) to consider my limited time on the water to be a success.
I did a lot of reasearch, had a lot of unproductive days but it is so rewarding to take bits of information, use trial and error and to grow into a relatively succesful angler.
If you want some success, hit some of the 'meat holes' on weekdays, and get some notches under your belt. The reason that they are meat holes, is because those are often very productive. Sometimes a hundred meters up or down from there can yeild some decent water and less crowds. Not all water looks 'fishy' to the inexperienced angler.
Best advice, keep at it. Don't get discouraged, even if you don't catch anything, you will have learned some things that day. Keep a log of dates, catches and conditions. Most of all, count your blessings that you are healthy enough to get out there and slog away. Not everyone is afforded this luxury in life.
Best of luck.