Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Fish Assassin on April 10, 2009, 09:58:37 PM
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I must say I was really concerned with some shore fly fishermen. During back cast, their lines and flies crossed right into the walkway where many people including children walked or ran by. Sometimes, these fly guys didn't even look back before they casted. It is a time bomb ready to explode any moment. Some eye balls or ears of some innocent park users are going to be victims of friendly fires any given day. Fisheries authority should do something to stop this potential hazard there. Guys wishing to take the trout with fly lines should be in a boat or a tube, or at least wade out further enough to make sure their back casts don't hit the walkway.
I agree. Fly fishermen from shore should be more cognizant of the pedestrian traffic.
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well being a shore fly fisherman at a different lake i will tell you 2 things here.
1 - YES, guys fishing should look behind them before EVERY cast.
2 - people walking should also watch for the fly lines because i have had tons of people jsut walk into my line when i started casting before they even got there, it only takes a few seconds to cast, JUST WAIT!!! its not going to kill you.
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i think some of the more regular park users get pretty ticket off by this. ive seen them argue things like that there is a sign that says no fly fishing from shore ect (not true). i think a select few have gone to some pretty far lengths just to stop it. ive heard some fairly loud arguments when ive been out in the boat.
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this has to be the stupidest thing, it takes common sense for the fly fisherman, and common sense for the other park users to be aware. heck, there are signs saying "fisherman beware of backcasts and park users"
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I disagree that pedestrians have to watch for fishing missles crossing into their walkway. To be fair, as park users, each group should have their own space to enjoy the park safely. For the walkway, it is supposed to be a safe path for walkers and runners to use the park. Don't forget there are children who don't even know what hazards may await them when they are running ahead of their parents. For Lafarge on the east side (opposite to the beach side), fly guys are actually casting among openings in bushes/trees. Unsusepecting pedestrians will just walk right into the path of these fishing missles as even the fly guys cannot be seen from a distance concealed by the trees. The beach side is more open and people can see those lines easier, but there are way more pedestrians on that side.
I personally had confronted a fly guy on the east side and reminded him that his cast is dangerous to the pedestrians. The guy just ignored me and continued. I don't know what fisheries authority will do regarding stocking the lake if some people get hurt, either by possible fights between fishermen and park users, or by injuries substained by park users when some one loses an eye. Will they stop stocking the lakes to avoid public pressure put on them?
It is for the benefits of both user groups to make sure such injuiries or fights do not happen so all can continue to enjoy this popular lake.
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so what your basically saying is that anyone fly fishing should be condemned to being in a boat?? you do realize that not everyone can afford these things right ;)
the lake i fish at (from shore) it is very wide open and people still walk right into your cast regardless, its like they are blind!! I do look behind me before i cast unless i know there is noone around.
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All they need is a few caution signs for the park users and a little common sense on the fishermens part .
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OK guys we all love to fish but it is your responsibility to be sure you do not hurt someone if you catch a kid with that hook see how fast someone tries to sue you.
its fun to play but play safe.
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Every body is free to choose how he/she fish unless forbidden by law. But sometimes, an unsuitable location to pursue your pleasure can have bad consequence. I am a fly fisherman too. There is nothing better to have a fish on without weights. But in crowded or unsuitable locations, I prefer to fish with other methods.
Yes, a lawsuit from some victim for losing an eye, particularly that of a child, is going to bankrupt a fisherman. How much potential loss of income and pain of partially blind for life is worth? Fly tossers from shore will just have to realize the hazards when they choose to pursuit their pleasure in an unsafe manner. I am sure you are a careful one, Hook. But not every one is careful. Just go over there and watch in Lafarge. They don't turn their heads in every cast. Even if they are careful, there are bound to be moments in a few hours of fishing that the attention is off and they cast without looking back. Perhaps they should do roll cast only. But they try to get the distance, so most are going back casts.
I did not imply in my original post that flyfishers have to be in a boat. There are shallow spots they can wade out to the lake and cast without reaching the walkway. In fact I have seen many fly tossers doing just that in past years, wading out from the beach side. But currently, some of the guys just want to be easy and therefore putting others at risk by their action.
The purpose of my thread is to inform these folks, if they read this thread at all, that their action can lead to tragic accident of grave consequence for both the victims and themselves. But for those of us who fish the lake, there is also the possible consequence that the lake will not be stocked in the future to avoid such accidents after some one is injured.
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so what your basically saying is that anyone fly fishing should be condemned to being in a boat?? you do realize that not everyone can afford these things right ;)
the lake i fish at (from shore) it is very wide open and people still walk right into your cast regardless, its like they are blind!! I do look behind me before i cast unless i know there is noone around.
exactly my point HOOK.
is is the choice of the pedestrian to put themselves in that position whether it sounds stupid or not, or whether they know it or not. Common sense would realize somebodies long back cast
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I agree with Steelhawk. Its your responsibility as a caster to watch behind you. Its not the responsibility of the people walking on the walkway. Just wade out further so your back cast is not in range of the walkway. Imagine your casting and a 3 year old is walking by. Your fly hits him in the eye. You going to go up to his parents and say he should have been watching? Kids are always running around there. It has nothing to do with buying a boat. Pick a spot where your not hitting the walkway, wade out further or if your that stuburn go somewhere else to fish.
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think about what you just said for a second ::) at Lafarge this "wade further" thing just isnt going to work because just like most lakes it drops off. the lake i fish regularly you are NOT allowed to wade into the water therefore you cross the path no matter what you do. It is both parties responsibility to look at whats going on around them. and of course ALWAYS keep an eye out for children because they have no idea. Everyone can co exist if both parties pay attention however to just blindly cast or walk then your the one at blame. (children not included)
how about when your even in a boat and someone goes behind you in their boat while your casting >:( I have snagged a couple people that have done this to me or they anchor right in my backcasting room!!! now would you not agree this is plain ignorance? people walking do this ALOT. they stop to watch but dont even think that when they saw you cast minutes earlier that your line is going exactly where they have now decided to stop ::) of course politely asking them to move a few feet is the norm but some people freak out which is not cool in any way to say the least.
its just plain common sense to pay attention to whats going on around you regardless of where you happen to be. I think we can all agree with that cant we?
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What appears to be common sense to one individual is not necessarily the case for another.
Regarding conflicts between anglers and other user groups, not just as Lafarge Lake, but at any public park: If the City receives complaints from users regarding possible danger caused by anglers, it will look for options to resolve the issue. The cheapest and easiest option is to close angling. The possibility of an individual being injured by a hook while an angler is casting would be taken very seriously by the City, because it becomes a liability issue. The City does not want to be sued for not warning the public regarding being hooked while walking in a park.
As anglers, we should be putting ourselves in other recreational users' shoes when sharing the same facility. Individuals who have no prior fishing knowledge would not be aware of the amount of backcasting room a flyfisherman needs, which is "common sense" to anglers. To a non-fisher, spincasting, baitfishing, flyfishing are simply fishing. The different techniques are often not recognized. Why would they be, if a person has never fished before?
Extra consideration should be given to your surroundings when given the privelege to utilize a service. It'd be pretty pointless to blame others on your own doings when that privelege is taken away.
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What appears to be common sense to one individual is not necessarily the case for another.
Regarding conflicts between anglers and other user groups, not just as Lafarge Lake, but at any public park: If the City receives complaints from users regarding possible danger caused by anglers, it will look for options to resolve the issue. The cheapest and easiest option is to close angling. The possibility of an individual being injured by a hook while an angler is casting would be taken very seriously by the City, because it becomes a liability issue. The City does not want to be sued for not warning the public regarding being hooked while walking in a park.
As anglers, we should be putting ourselves in other recreational users' shoes when sharing the same facility. Individuals who have no prior fishing knowledge would not be aware of the amount of backcasting room a flyfisherman needs, which is "common sense" to anglers. To a non-fisher, spincasting, baitfishing, flyfishing are simply fishing. The different techniques are often not recognized. Why would they be, if a person has never fished before?
Extra consideration should be given to your surroundings when given the privelege to utilize a service. It'd be pretty pointless to blame others on your own doings when that privelege is taken away.
Exactly!!!
Hook your way out to lunch on this one.
Comparing hitting another angler in a boat to a pedestrian who has no clue are like comparing apples to oranges. BTW in all my years I have never hit another angler when in my boat. I am always looking around when in my boat and never have even come close to hitting another angler in another boat.
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Rodney hits it on the nail when he says the city, for fear of liability, may just elect to close the fishery as the cheapest way to solve the problem. Remember, compared to the non-fishing public, the anglers are simply the minority. When words get out that an innocent kid or unsuspecting park walker just got his eye rip off by a fly hook while enjoying a leisure walk, what do you think the reaction of the public will be? They will be all over the city to shut out the fishermen so they can feel safe to let their kids run around in the park. They can simply stop the stocking and fishermen will be out of luck and who is to blame?
You also hit it right on the nail, Hook, when you say 'excluding the children'. But can we really exclude any one? In a lawsuit, there is no such thing. When a fisher's action can potentially harm a child, that action will be stopped, and when the action has caused harm with permenent damage, a lawsuit will follow and you cannot claim innocence that a kid should watch out for his own safety.
Even if the city or fishery posts a sign that says 'BEWARE of FLIES!!!' ( ;D ), a child, even a non-fishing adult, will not know what it is all about. Will a 3 year old read it and understand it? Will a non-fisher know that there is a hook at the end of that line which goes back and forth along the walkway? I doubt it. Perhaps that is the reason why they walk right into it as if they were blind, as you stated, Hook.
So shore flyfishermen should take the proper action to protect themselves from potential lawsuits and to protect unsuspecting pedestrians. The last thing we want is city/fishery closing down stocking of urban lakes because of some careless shore fly tossers.
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This is absurd.....
out in garry point park we take the kids kite flying sometimes. Should they ban kites because occasionally they swoop down and may hit passersby? And the kite-rider guys....should they not be allowed to have a good time on the off chance that they might lose control and hit a kid? What about runners? Maybe people not paying attention when they run could accidentally run over an old ladys prized pomeranian. It's a multi use park...that's what it is there for. I hope you guys realize the slippery slope you are standing on with this...
Look, there are idiots everywhere. If I'm flyfishing in a busy area, which does not happen often AT ALL, I'll use my head and realize I AM the one imposing my pastime on others and act accordingly. I can stand to wait and watch to make sure there is nobody in my backcast. I've never met anyone who just flails away without regard for who or what is behind them.
And, I HAVE been hooked before, but it was by my cousin's rapala, right in the scalp with both trebles, as he was loading up his spinning rod to cast.
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When a kite hits you, it will scratch you head a bit. Nothing serious. Even a little bump will heal. You can probably pay for a lawsuit with a month's income if there is one... ;D
But when a fly hook being tossed and rip back and forth at high speed, and hit a victim horizontally, it can litterally rip somebody's eye ball off and you pay with the income of your life time. ;D
The choice is up to each person to make. No one cares a dime if a careless fisher is bankrupt by an accident except himself and his family, but the fishing public at large will be penalized along with the guilty party when fishing is banned, and the harm done to the victim can be for life too. Perhaps the analogy is closer when a hunter decides to shoot for deers in closed areas near urban centers. He can shoot all he wants if he is ready to pay the fines. But when some unlucky soul gets caught by a strayed bullet, some body is going to work hard for the rest of his life to pay off the debt for sure. ;D
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These are all rhetorical arguments you're putting forth. Maybe discussions like this are best saved for when something actually happens?
Pretty funny that you liken flyfishing at a lake to shooting deer near urban centers.... a bit of a stretch, but funny :) And don't doubt for a second that you can't get a kite in the eye. Stranger things have, and do happen every day in this hazardous world we live in :)
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seriously what are the chances of getting hit in the eye as oppose to the rest of your body? honestly!! the likelyness of getting the hook in the eye is pretty slim. Most people that have been hooked in the eye are usually hooked by THEMSELVES. have i been hooked before, Yes i have, and it was a 3/0 buried in the back of my skull by a friend casting for salmon >:( and yes i have "almost" hooked myself in the eye.......twice!! once after missing a strike float fishing shallow and the other fly fishing in the wind.
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As absurd as it may seem, resolving conflict between user groups by shutting access to one is probably the most common practice by the managers of public resource. My previous post is not an expression of how I think it should be managed, but to point out the consequences based on my experience in doing consulations with various municipalities. The City's priority is to serve its residents, who have no interests in paying tax to compensate individuals who are hurt on their public properties.
Steelhawk's attempt to bring this issue up is not a shot toward flyfishermen, but rather a reminder of safety that is not always so obvious to anglers, especially those who are just starting out in flyfishing. The same safety precaution also applies to anglers who spin fish, but the likelihood of being hooked from a bakcast while flyfishing is bigger.
Conflicts between recreational groups are common. Trail sharing between horseback riders, mountain bikers and hikers is a classic example of such conflicts. Ten years ago mountain biking is an activity that was in danger being prohibited on mountains in West and North Vancouver due to trail degradation and potential injuries on riders and other users. To ensure that it did not reach that point, the mountain biking community in Vancouver managed to form an organization with active members who are assigned with different duties such as meeting with the City to develop compromises, public education and trail maintenance. The result is a sport that has grown rapidly and healthily. The same can be achieved in sportfishing, but we haven't evolved to that stage yet.
Regarding Garry Poing Park, being hit by kites is indeed a concern for other park users. Being someone who fishes at the park regularly, I have watched close calls and confrontations between kiters and walkers. I'm sure the kiting association is well aware of the problem and has taken steps to address those problems. During pink salmon fishing season, the park is often used by many flyfishermen. I've watched some flyfishermen yelled at other park users for standing too closely or walking by without being aware of the backcast. Although these are in the minority, it paints a poor picture of the sportfishing community. When out fishing, I'd like to think that we are ambassadors of this activity. If someone doesn't seem to be aware of what you are doing, a friendly reminder is the best approach. If someone wants to know why I am fishing in the Fraser River, I'd have no problem spending five minutes letting them know.
British Columbia has vast amount of space and free public access is widely available compared to other parts of the world. This is great but at the same time we develop a sense of entitlement and forget not to take these priveleges for granted. As urban area becomes more congested, we can expect these potential problems to become more frequent. The best way to tackle these would be prevention, not solution because it is often too late once it happens.
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Thanks Rodney for the clarification. I by no means try to attack flyfishermen. I am one of them. I have tied hundreds of flies and used them in lakes for trout, salmon like coho, pinks, chums, even springs (at the Big Qualicum). By May I may hop out for the Vedder steelhead with my 9 wt. I am not anti flyfishing. I am only addressing my concern for those Lafarge shore flyfishermen whose backcasts can harm innocent and unsuspecting pedestrians. Yes, nothing may happen. Accidents don't happen all the time, but we know they do happen, and the higher the probability, the more likely it will happen.
When something bad happen, as Rodney suggests, sport fishing can be shut down to prevent further happenings. We are just a minority user group compared to those joggers and walkers who stream through those walkways all day. So if our action proves to be a risk to the majority, then we will be shut down. Why wait till it happens to do something. It will be too late. As Rodney puts it, city can be sued too and they won't want such liability.
If you don't believe what goverment authority will do when something bad happens in fishing, just watch the closure of the meat hole above Stamp Falls. Years back, that spot was filled with fishermen targeting the plentiful springs of the Stamp River. People would line up shoulder to shouder and fish were hooked left & right. Lines crossed, fish lost, arguments erupted, and finally somebody knifed somebody else. After that, closure. I have no idea if it is still closed. But this goes to say, even if fights happen among fishermen and not innocent bystanders, the end result is the same - closure.
So let's do the right thing, to make sure your fishing activity is safe for yourself and for other user groups too. Then we will not have to regret when they stop stocking the lake.
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One has to remember that fishing with a rod is basically a primordial sport, so it still has some bugs...or flies. :)
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The biggest problem to me is that people cannot seem to share resources without being selfish and inconsiderate. Like you say Rodney, and it is a good point to make, we should consider ourselves ambassadors of our pastime and act accordingly...not necessarily expect others to stop what they are doing while we infringe upon their own space.
I think it is jumping the gun to up and ban flyfishing in areas where the public may be "at risk" of being lashed by a wooly bugger. Instead, at those places why not put signs that warn flyfishermen to watch their backcast and be aware that it is a walking trail first and foremost. I wouldn't put a sign up advising walkers to watch for flies, most of them wouldn't get it :) Plus, I believe it would give less "aware" flyfishers to be even more reckless with their casting.
The concept of "user group conflict" exists just about everywhere and permeates almost everything we do on a daily basis. We're all going to encounter conflict...It is disappointing that before people show basic consideration and work it out themselves, and enjoy resources together, it usually comes to arguments, more conflict, and then some ridiculous regulations put in place to appease the loudest complainers. *sigh*
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No matter fly or bait casting, I will watch my back first...safety no.1 priority.
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Way to go. This picture taken today shows that Lafarge is pretty shallow in spots and you can be standing in the middle of the lake feasting on the trouts with flies like the tube guys. Hey, perhaps we manage to convince some forum readers.... ;D This site does have tremendous readership, you know. :)
(http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp136/steelhawk1/ValentineSteelie14Feb2009004.jpg)
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That shot was of me in the float tube, and no fish today on the fly, but the spin casters sure were doing well. Yes, this lake is very shallow and even hip waders for 50 bucks will get you out far enough to back cast safely. I agree that the fly caster is responsible for the location of his hook at all times.
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Yes, the lake has shallow spots. Right now, the water is relatively high already, and yet there are still spots shallow enough to wade all out. There are sections which are as shallow as this shallow ledge off to the left of the newly built platform. In the beach side, from the floating dock to the newly built stairway, it is very shallow. On the east side, in low water, you can actually see exposed flats extending way out and the shoreline there is grassy. These are spots you can wade out safely to backcast. For new fly guys, when you wade out, don't rush the steps, just slowly move out with firm footing before you commit next step. Without current, it should not be an unsafe endeavour if you wade slowly. If still unsure, bring a wading staff to test the water ahead of you. ;D
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Good advice....even without current though be wary of soft spots. I filled my waders a few years back ( with water :) ) in a very slow flow because the bottom changed from sand to silt and in I went. You can get wading staffs (sold as collapsable walking sticks) at MEC for much cheaper than a "fishing" wading staff....they are pretty much the same thing.
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Today I dropped by the lake for a walk. I could not believe the sight - a flyfisherman standing about 8 ft from the concrete walkway on the beach side was doing his BLIND backcasts. I mean he literally did not even look back and his fly line was ripping back and forth among crowded evening pedestrians. A lady jogger was not aware of the hazard until she was tooi close and then she had to duck and evade from the flying missiles, and barely missed being caught. I told the guy that he almost caught the lady with his hook. You know what he said? "Good" was the answer. I could not believe such vulgarity and inconsideration displayed. What can be done with such display of arrogance and negligence? It sure spoiled my evening there and I am not sure if some one may eventually get seriously injured by this reckless behaviour. :(
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right there is a PERFECT example of someone that is going to ruin it for the rest of us. Ignorant people like that need to be educated further about what could happen with actions like that >:(
Did you inform him that you also fished/fly fished and what the consequences could be from actions such as his? sometimes just reasoning with someone can change the way they go about things however not always.
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You can't do anything within the law about it, unfortunately. In order to reason with somebody they typically have to be considered "reasonable" people, right? Sounds like this guy was just an idiot with a chip on his shoulder. Too bad.
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Today I dropped by the lake for a walk. I could not believe the sight - a flyfisherman standing about 8 ft from the concrete walkway on the beach side was doing his BLIND backcasts. I mean he literally did not even look back and his fly line was ripping back and forth among crowded evening pedestrians. A lady jogger was not aware of the hazard until she was tooi close and then she had to duck and evade from the flying missiles, and barely missed being caught. I told the guy that he almost caught the lady with his hook. You know what he said? "Good" was the answer. I could not believe such vulgarity and inconsideration displayed. What can be done with such display of arrogance and negligence? It sure spoiled my evening there and I am not sure if some one may eventually get seriously injured by this reckless behaviour. :(
It's guys with his attitude that ruin it for everybody.
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You can't do anything within the law about it, unfortunately. In order to reason with somebody they typically have to be considered "reasonable" people, right? Sounds like this guy was just an idiot with a chip on his shoulder. Too bad.
Marmot is right. His answer is so blunt that I just know it is a waste of time, or that I will have to risk a rough confrontation with him. It would have been easier if he would say 'Oh, I will be careful'. You are right Hook & FA, these kind of guys with such indifferent attitude will ruin the whole thing for all one of these days. Just hope no one will be seriously injured by him. But judging from the busy walkway and how he casted, it is only a ticking time bomb. Sigh! >:(
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The only down side was a couple of guys with huge rods casting lead half way across the lake >:(
:D you see that at green timbers too, huge led with some powerbait. oh yay..
it's like missles from North Korea
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Nothing wrong with it. Just funny to watch, people using 3oz led and making a giant mushroom cloud on the water and scaring them off. What really grinds my gear is just a handful of bad casters, you'll have your fly line out and they cast into your line and scream their head off at you. :(
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ya especially when they cast OVER you & your boat/tube/pontoon >:( what also bugs me is when the guy on this shore has to cast all the way across to the other shore to catch fish because thats where they are biting at the time ::) why not just WALK over to the other side to fish. the reason we go out in boats is to avoid the shore crowding so it ruins everyones day when your lines are getting crossed and sometimes even yourself.
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Whats wrong with casting half way across the lake??
To reach the middle of the lake you need a pretty heavy lead and the speed of a heavy lead sent out into the middle of the lake would be travelling at a high enough speed to do some serious damage to anyone in its path
Now if the leader snapped the lead would have less resistance and so be travelling at a higher rate of speed
This is what happened the other day
I was in the middle of the lake i heard a snap and not too long after heard this sound of a high velocity lead hit the water close to me
Had that hit me on the head\in the face i would not be here typing this post :-\
what also bugs me is when the guy on this shore has to cast all the way across to the other shore to catch fish because thats where they are biting at the time
Too true >:(
every time a few fish rose near me i was bombarded from a few different angles of the shore by long casters
all they accomplished was to move the fish on to another spot and they were resticting other shore fishermen from casting
Most of the shore fishermen are very apologetic if they cross a line or cast to close to a tuber
The lake is for all to fish, just some consideration for others saftey would be nice
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They should have some kind of a cannon to shot the rig out there more accurately. ::)
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I agree, some people just don't care where they fire their led bombs. But I also think it's from not being educated on how serious the damage could be from getting hit by a honk of led.
I know that from experience. Hit a friend with a small pencil led, didn't think it was so serious but it turns out I've made him bleed from his forehead. :-[
He wanted to kill me at that point.
They should have some kind of a cannon to shot the rig out there more accurately. ::)
Think that just might be more dangerous, especially with the dumb handful out there :-\
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Grass is greener on the other side don't you know ? ;D
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Grass is greener on the other side don't you know ? ;D
Tonight I took the Pug to the other side of the park....and the grass was definitely greener.
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Guess we need another thread called 'Conflicts of Lafarge fishermen'. ;D
Yes, I think the 3 oz is an over kill. The other day, we were catching them close to shore. The 'bombers' saw the hot action and came rushing to our area. Funny they bombed far out as usual among us but the fish were caught within 30 ft from shore. As expected, they couldn't catch anything and left in a hurry. Funny, they should learn to adapt to what is working, but they seem to have only one formula - bombs away! ;D
Looks like tubers in Lafarge need to spend on a helmet (perhaps even a goggle) to save them from these aerial attacks. ;D
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maybe wearing a helmet would make it worse because now they don't need to worry :(
Aim for the helmet man!
Fire 1, fire 2, fire 3, fire the rest of em!!
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I have to agree on some points.But some of those boat guys if they see you catching fish they come so close that you cant cast!and then they complain your casting over there lines lol.
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I have to agree on some points.But some of those boat guys if they see you catching fish they come so close that you cant cast!and then they complain your casting over there lines lol.
I've seen that as well. Guilty on both sides.
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Well, the shore fishers are liable with their aerial lead bombs which can crack a skull or bust an eye. Now what the tubers need to pay when their lines cross the shore guys? Probably he will say sorry and throw one of his plentiful catch to the shore guy as a settlement so he can fish some more. ;D Now watch for an aerial fish bomb. ;D
Seriously, both sides need to show respect and allow space for each other. Fish cruise around a lot. So different areas can be hot at different time.
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I think Como Lake is for the age groups you mention. At least a while ago it was.
By the way, watching the way some of the older 'bombers' cast, they are not very accurate, so the tubers/boaters really have to consider protecting their heads. Also when the 'bombers' see hot action around the tubers, their 'bombs' also tend to head to that direction. I will say after a tuber hook a few fish around him, get the hell out of there before the 'bombs' start raining down around him. ;D
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I think Como Lake is for the age groups you mention. At least a while ago it was.
Age restriction is no longer in effect.