Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Old Black Dog on April 30, 2008, 07:58:38 AM
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Ottawa calls on B.C. natives to ration sockeye catch
MARK HUME
E-mail Mark Hume | Read Bio | Latest Columns
April 30, 2008
VANCOUVER -- Sockeye returns to the Fraser River this summer will be so poor that the federal government has asked 94 native bands in the watershed to come up with a catch-sharing plan that, for the first time, may involve "salmon rationing."
Native leaders say such meagre catches are forecast that people who have always had sockeye as a staple of their traditional diet might not get any this summer.
"The salmon that are harvested will need to be rationed between and among the bands. And the individual bands may have to ration salmon inside their communities," said Ernie Crey, a director of the Sto:Lo Nation fisheries program.
"They will very likely be forced to create priority lists for salmon. Very likely the able-bodied will do the fishing. But the leaders may be forced to say first priority for who gets the salmon are the elderly, single moms and those on welfare," said Mr. Crey, whose organization represents about a dozen bands on the lower river.
"...The government calls it a sharing plan, but that is really a euphemism for the rationing of salmon," he said.
Although other species, such as chum and late-summer chinook, are forecast to be numerous enough to support fisheries, the loss of sockeye is a blow, because the oil-rich salmon are considered the mainstay of the native diet on the Fraser.
Early explorers told of seeing salmon-drying racks in the Fraser Canyon, where they can still be found in the summer, with families gathering to put away enough fish for a year.
"There's a great dependence on the annual sockeye run," Mr. Crey said. "The principal dietary source of protein relied upon by these 94 communities is quickly vanishing and it's alarming that there are no alternatives at hand to replace this food source."
Early predictions are for a run of about two million sockeye, which sounds like a lot of fish. But that is down considerably from the 4.4 million average for this low-cycle year and far off the river's historical annual average, for all years, of 9.7 million.
Because the run was weak four years ago, it has long been expected that commercial and recreational fishing might not be allowed in 2008.
But the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is now predicting such low returns that the aboriginal harvest of fish for food, social and ceremonial (FSC) purposes is also facing curtailment. DFO has been asking bands along the Fraser to come up with a plan to share whatever few salmon are caught.
Mr. Crey said DFO is hoping bands can work out a plan that is acceptable to everyone, reducing conflict on the river, even while stocks are plunging to extreme lows.
"It has been a very difficult exercise for all the first nations ... because they lack confidence in the [government's salmon run] forecasts," Mr. Crey said.
"Last year there was a forecast of six million [sockeye] and it came in at two million ... so we are worried it could be considerably less than [what is] being predicted now. How do we structure a plan when we don't know how many fish there will be?" he asked.
"It's a very problematic exercise. This isn't to say it can't be accomplished, because there has to be a plan ... and if we don't come up with a plan, we know they [DFO] will impose a plan."
In a letter to chiefs earlier this year, Paul Sprout, Pacific regional director general for DFO, said that reaching consensus "will be extremely challenging," but it was necessary "in a year likely to require collective action towards conservation." Mr. Sprout warned that low returns mean "all requests for FSC access cannot be fully satisfied."
Sockeye start returning in the early summer and continue running through the fall. DFO predicts the run size far in advance by using a model that considers the size of the progenitor run (the parents of this year's salmon spawned in 2004) and other things related to ocean survival.
The growth rate of salmon at sea, water temperatures, salinity levels, the breeding success of sea birds (an indication of food abundance) and the timing of zooplankton blooms are all factors.
DFO has calculated there is a 90-per-cent probability the Fraser sockeye run will be at least 1.2 million (which would mean almost no fishing), but there is a 50-per-cent probability it could reach 2.8 million (which would allow a limited harvest).
Brian Riddell, head of DFO's Pacific salmon branch, said the Fraser's sockeye run isn't the only one in poor shape this year. Wild sockeye in the Skeena have been rated as "a stock of concern," which means it is unlikely fishing will be allowed for them.
Early chinook runs to the Fraser and Thompson Rivers and to the West Coast of Vancouver Island are also of concern, as are coho in the upper Fraser, Thompson and Georgia Strait.
Dr. Riddell said on the West Coast of North America, B.C. appears to be in a transition zone between southern waters, where nearly all stocks are in peril, and the north, where salmon are doing well.
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as long as its a food fishery and not a for sale fishery, I dont see too much harm in it... but knowing Ernie Crey likes to Make his dollar off the salmons Back I am nervous what will happen...
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"The principal dietary source of protein relied upon by these 94 communities is quickly vanishing and it's alarming that there are no alternatives at hand to replace this food source."
Wow, that is quite the statement...
I wonder how the rest of us survive!! ::)
Cheers,
Nicole
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It's difficult to wade into a discussion like this without being incendiary...but, here goes.....
Ernie Crey talks like a corrupt politician trained in used car sales.
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Those of us that have fished the Fraser for years know what will happen when it comes to the sale of sockeye by FN. They will do it and nothing will be done about it. They continue to blow smoke and now that we are at this critical stage they will still allow it to happen. I am tired of hearing this every year. There will be no conservation of salmon until poachers are fined and jailed . I have many FN friends who will not allow the sale of fish that they catch but there are others who just do not care just like those that say they are trying to stop flooding by removing gravel -- $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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Its absolute BS to believe that all the First Nations fish they catch will be for ceremonial and food purposes i would say a HUGE chunk of it goes for selling Sockeye to make money.
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It may not be all the reasons that include overfishing, illegal fishing during closed times and catching fish just for sale purposes that sockeye are in trouble on the Fraser River but these activities have certainly contributed to what we are now faced with.
As well look back a few years, actually in 2004 the brood year for this years returning fish when 1.3 to 1.6 sockeye that went missing after entering the Fraser River. This was big news that year and if you google "missing sockeye on the Fraser River" you will get a lot of information. One report by the Standing Committee on Fisheries said, we are heading towards disaster in 2008 and the economic impact could reach 78 million. I guess we can now say we have reached that point and one could say the chicken has now come home to roost or maybe it should say the fish have not come home to spawn.
Who is to blame, well I guess all user groups have in one way or another but besides the changing environment it must come down to FOC to police these fisheries as each fish is now very important. We need to attempt to get as many fish back to the spawning grounds as possible
I have been accused about writing about bad news on the Fraser sorry but this is bad news, all users including FOC can no longer sweep this under the rug, we including FOC must all act now to save our precious salmon for the future.
A CTV story from May 23, 2005
CTV.ca News Staff
The Fraser River's sockeye salmon fishery is heading towards disaster, a federal Parliamentary committee's report said Tuesday.
If the situation doesn't improve, fishing will be shut down in the 2008 season, as sockeye have a four-year life cycle, said the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. But the finding means the outlook for 2012 and 2016 is also bleak.
The economic impact of that in 2008 will be $78 million, the committee estimated.
Its report partly blames rising water temperatures, but also unchecked, illegal overfishing by native bands.
"If fish were trees, we've clear-cut a quarter of the Fraser basin," declared B.C. Conservative MP John Cummins, a commercial fisher.
He has previously called for a judicial inquiry into the Fraser River fishery's management.
An estimated 1.6 million fish, one-third of the total run, went missing in 2004.
Cummins talked about the underground salmon economy, saying, "The government has chosen to look the other way, and the end result of this is for the next 20 years, we've lost a run of Fraser River sockeye."
However, the committee also heard testimony from a veteran fisheries officer that it would be impossible for First Nations fishers to harvest and market the volume of fish that are missing.
Ernie Crey, a native fisheries adviser, told CTV News Vancouver, "We take issue with the findings of the standing committee."
Native fishers have used the same nets and techniques for generations, he said.
While the report quotes extensively from a fisheries expert who said high water temperatures likely played a major role in the decline, the committee also said water temperatures alone can't account for the decline.
The committee didn't reach any conclusion about whether climate change was a possible cause of higher river temperatures. It did call for more research.
"If in fact it is climate change and if river temperatures continue to increase it's a further argument for more conservation," said Tom Wappel, the Liberal committee chairman.
In any event, the report said "fishing pressure of any kind during periods of record high water temperature should be avoided."
Conservative committee member Randy Kamp said: "Clearly it was a combination of factors and I suspect environmental factors were significant as well but we heard lots of testimony from people witnessing lack of enforcement."
CTV Vancouver's Rob Brown said there are about 29 Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans officers patrolling the Fraser.
Brown said Cummins thought there should be at least 45 officers available.
NDP MP Peter Stoffer noted the committee has previously issued reports on the sockeye only to see no action taken by the government. He wants a response this time within 60 days.
"We cannot come back and do another report down the road because there may not be any salmon left for anyone."
Fisheries Minister Geoff Regan told reporters: "After I review that (report), we'll look at what we have to do, and if we have to do things differently, we will."
With a report from CTV Vancouver's Rob Brown and files from The Canadian Press
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I wouldn't take that comment to heart Chris....if there was good news to post I think we all know you'd be the first one to share it.
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This is my post from August 3, 2004, note the red highlighted sentance. :o
Posts: 5169
I'm a llama!
Drift Nets Now Allowed In Chilliwack Area
« on: August 03, 2004, 08:39:46 PM »
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More good news as FOC struck a deal with Cheam to allow drift nets in the Fraser River from Jones Hill to Jespersons.
Now for the good news they will be able to fish from 5 am to 11am and 5pm to 11 pm 5 days a week. Not sure what days so when out on the river you will have lots of drift nets to avoid.
As well they will be coming by your fishing spots in these areas so be prepared to pull your rods.
Also set net opening starting tomorrow from Mission Bridge to Sawmill Creek for 96 hours.
I am starting to worry how can the fish stocks handle this pressure.
A foot note: it seems if you break the law you get what you want.
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Audio:
http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/bc/ondemand/audio/bc-080430-salmon-bca-INTERVIEW.wmv
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/04/30/bc-first-nation-sockeye-ration.html
First Nations to ration Fraser River salmon, official says
Last Updated: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 | 6:53 PM ET
First Nations leaders along the Fraser River are being asked to do something they've never been asked to do by the federal government, according to an aboriginal official — ration their salmon catch and share among themselves.
Sto:lo Nation fisheries adviser Ernie Crey said 2008 is the worst year he's seen in five decades for returning sockeye on the Fraser.
Leaders representing 94 First Nations bands made up of more than 70,000 people have been meeting to come up with a catch-sharing program, Crey said Wednesday. Normally, aboriginal fishermen have the right to catch as much as they need for their own communities' consumption.
Last summer, large parts of the commercial sockeye fishery were closed on the West Coast. If aboriginal communities do get a chance to fish sockeye on the Fraser this summer, they will have to agree on a plan to share the fish among all members on the Fraser, Crey said, something he said has never happened before.
Collapse predicted in 2004
In 2004, early sockeye numbers were only about 10 per cent of what was expected that year, and aboriginal and commercial fishermen predicted those numbers could lead to a collapse of the Fraser River fishery when the salmon spawned in 2004 return in 2008.
But the Department of Fisheries and Oceans said at the time that the predictions of a demise of the fishery were premature.
"The Fraser River sockeye itself is going to be OK. I think that we're not so disastrously low that the stocks themselves will not recover," DFO spokesman Wayne Saito said in September of 2004.
Then in March of 2005 a report by the Commons fisheries committee said spawning levels were so low in 2004 that the commercial, recreational and aboriginal sockeye salmon fisheries on British Columbia's Fraser River could be wiped out in 2008.
The report blamed a failure by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to crack down on sockeye poaching in the region and implement previous recommendations designed to save the stock, as well as unusually warm water temperatures in 2004.
It predicted extremely low levels of adult salmon ready for harvesting in 2008 and the cancellation of all fisheries for that year.
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It was like a processing plant on the Fraser on Cheam Reserve land. I fished right across from them and the hunter/gathers got all rude to me, because I was watching them load the large fish bins into vans with tinted windows. These guys need to realize that if the fish are in trouble it's better to be part of the solution than the main problem. I'm sure most band members have no idea what some losers are up to, but Ernie sure does. If their band members are starving I would get a new Chief who shares the largesse a bit better.
Shame on the people giving first nations a bad name by being greedy, and using ceremonial practice as a way of justifying them raping the resource. The federal government will probably let the salmon go the way of the cod. I sure hope not though.
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I think DFO needs to seriously increase fines for buying fish, and get some surveillance going in conjunction with the RCMP and Municipal police forces to nail and close down restaurants buying fish illegally...
10,000 fine per fish purchased. Keep liquidating your assets until the fine is covered.
Something has to be done, unless it is indeed legal for people to buy fish from the natives... I think a media campaign is in order this summer... Long overdue!!
Cheers,
Nicole
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Ration the Sockeye.
Im sure Ernie will make sure this happens. ::)
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This is going to be one of the biggest threads ever. ;D ;D
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You are bang on Nicole....increase the fines and make them stick, and people will stop buying them. Sockeye is not like booze or drugs, if the penalties are harsh, and people are aware of it, they will steer clear. Everybody knows a "buddy" that gets FN fish....I know the guy I know would stop should the fines go up and DFO officers take action. A couple dozen people stung is all it would take.
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"A couple dozen people stung is all it would take."
Gives a whole new meaning to the term "baitfish"
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I follow an american fishing site and they have a problem right now too that is getting a lot of coverage: sealions at bonnaville dam.
One of their members was making a point about these sealions being a natural salmon predator and suggested they should not be exterminated. He said "the only difference is that the indians most likely harvested the sealions too and ate them along with the salmon"
I see a HUGE win/win here!
Just yesterday, Ernie Crey, said "There's a great dependence on the annual sockeye run," Mr. Crey said. "The principal dietary source of protein relied upon by these 94 communities is quickly vanishing and it's alarming that there are no alternatives at hand to replace this food source."
We have hungry indians...they have too many sealions...sounds like a match made in heaven!
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Until the river is comletely shut down to " ALL " fishermen , including sport , FN and Comm nothing is going to change !! taking away Sporties right to fish for these salmon is going to make NO difference to the run of Sockeye, there will just be a few more fish for the FN to rape from the river and sell out of their Pickups... this whole situation makes me sick !! Shut the damn river down for two or three years, let the numbers build naturally and then re evaluate the situation, it isn't that hard to see what needs to happen, just have to take the Rose Coloured glasses off
TH
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MP swims up stream on fisheries
RICHMOND NEWS
Jessica Kerr
Canwest News Service
Tuesday, April 29, 2008
John Cummins is concerned there are not going to be enough fish in the Fraser River for everyone, however the federal fisheries minister does not share his concern.
The Delta-Richmond East MP first voiced his concerns about salmon allocations for First Nations bands along the river last November in a letter to Fisheries Minister Loyola Hearn. The letter was accompanied by a report, Review of Commercial Salmon Allocations: Impact Analysis Applying Tsawwassen Benchmark to the Fraser River Fishery, Cummins compiled.
The minister recently responded and his reaction has the veteran MP concerned. Under the treaty, which is still waiting for final approval from the House of Commons, Cummins said the Tsawwassen First Nation would be allowed more than double its current salmon allocation.
Cummins said by his calculations, if all other aboriginal claimants were given the same allocation as the TFN, it would amount to 177 per cent of the total salmon catch in the Fraser River. If that is the case, Cummins said, there would not be enough sockeye to even fulfill the First Nation allocations, let alone leave some for other commercial and recreational fishermen.
In his response, Hearn calls Cummins' analysis an overestimation and says, "Actually, the treaty process will provide certainty and predictability for all harvesters."
"It's the same old line -- there's enough fish there," said Cummins, who believes Hearn and his ministry do not understand the implications of the TFN treaty salmon allocations.
"How are you going to deny other bands?" he questioned. "There's going to be a demand for fish."
Cummins is also concerned about the whole treaty process.
"Who cut the deal? The government did not cut this deal, the negotiators did," he told the Delta Optimist last week.
He said none of the negotiators approached him, or any other elected officials, to ask their opinion or what they were hearing from their constituents. "I think that that's wrong," Cummins said.
The MP sent a letter to Hearn earlier this month, voicing his concerns about the minister's response to his analysis of the impact of the salmon allocations. In it he continued to highlight his opposition to a practice he believes will exclude other fishermen from harvesting Fraser River salmon.
"The Tsawwassen treaty and other such treaties now in negotiation segregate the fishery based on racial lines," Cummins stated in the letter to the fisheries minister.
"I know that you do not wish to be the minister responsible for setting a precedent that will exclude every Canadian except treaty signatories from access to Fraser River salmon."
© Richmond
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I think DFO needs to seriously increase fines for buying fish, and get some surveillance going in conjunction with the RCMP and Municipal police forces to nail and close down restaurants buying fish illegally...
10,000 fine per fish purchased. Keep liquidating your assets until the fine is covered.
Something has to be done, unless it is indeed legal for people to buy fish from the natives... I think a media campaign is in order this summer... Long overdue!!
Cheers,
Nicole
There ought to be a crackdown on the Bands selling the salmon as well but I don't think DFO has the guts to do that. >:(
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I find it telling that Foc does not designate this as a fishery that needs closing due to conservation concerns.If they did that they would have to do their job and stop all forms of fishing.I find it telling that even though most people with any common sense could see this during the last few years,they did not recognize the obvious.Quite the contrary they were too busy authorizing "test commercial sales of fish normally allocated for food,social and ceremonial purposes.The poor excuse for this blatant law breaking was fobbed of on the rest of the public as"the fish are being sold anyway so why not legitimize the practice".I am for conservation.The law protects fish that are threatened.If there is a legitimate concern,then shut it down period and stop giving in to the blackmail.Bring some respect for the law back and have it apply to everyone before the fish are gone here too.
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I think DFO needs to seriously increase fines for buying fish, and get some surveillance going in conjunction with the RCMP and Municipal police forces to nail and close down restaurants buying fish illegally...
10,000 fine per fish purchased. Keep liquidating your assets until the fine is covered.
Something has to be done, unless it is indeed legal for people to buy fish from the natives... I think a media campaign is in order this summer... Long overdue!!
Cheers,
Nicole
There ought to be a crackdown on the Bands selling the salmon as well but I don't think DFO has the guts to do that. >:(
Well I think it would be money well spent to take out adds in the papers where they know the fish are being sold to remind the public that the sales are illegal.
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Just yesterday, Ernie Crey, said "There's a great dependence on the annual sockeye run," Mr. Crey said. "The principal dietary source of protein relied upon by these 94 communities is quickly vanishing and it's alarming that there are no alternatives at hand to replace this food source."
This is such a croc of s**t, how about this, take the money you have worked for and earned (it's called a job) , like the rest of us, go to Save-on foods, go to the meat section....
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Just yesterday, Ernie Crey, said "There's a great dependence on the annual sockeye run," Mr. Crey said. "The principal dietary source of protein relied upon by these 94 communities is quickly vanishing and it's alarming that there are no alternatives at hand to replace this food source."
This is such a croc of s**t, how about this, take the money you have worked for and earned (it's called a job) , like the rest of us, go to Save-on foods, go to the meat section....
Amen !!
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BCGUY says it all . It is not hard in this economy to get a job but wait now. As long as I can sell fish from the back of my truck and CO's turn away , I have a job and only need to do it a few months a year . the whole thing is sickening . Mark my words when there are no Sockeye left they will net the lakes (if they are not already)and say thats their right too and there will people who will still buy fish from them . Shut the river down for EVERYONE!!!!!
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Shut the river down for EVERYONE!!!!!
We're all in this together. No special interest group.
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I'm fully behind Nicole's idea on this one, make it a $10,000 penalty not just to buy a sockeye illegally but to possess an illegal sockeye that way it would look after any poachers too, also suspend or eliminate the business license of any restaurant or store or fish packer caught possesing contraband sockeye. Advertise this in the paper at least once a week during sockeye season so everyone knows about it and the market would dry up completely.
Also reading these forums I keep hearing of sockeye being sold out of the backs of pickup trucks, while I'm not denying that this goes on I've never heard anyone mention that they took the license number down and reported them, really the RCMP can charge people with fish and wildlife violations too in case you can't get hold of a DFO officer. If they're openly selling out of the back of a truck you could even go over there and my smelly socks the people a little and get their names. Tell me, just how many of you that have witnessed this behavior have made an effort to report it? I'm just asking this because I live within 5 kms. of a reserve in a rural area and I haven't had anyone approach me or come to my door with fish for about 8 years now and sometimes I find it a little hard to believe when I hear these reports of brazen law breaking going on in the city.
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I'm just asking this because I live within 5 kms. of a reserve in a rural area and I haven't had anyone approach me or come to my door with fish for about 8 years now and sometimes I find it a little hard to believe when I hear these reports of brazen law breaking going on in the city.
They don't dare do that near your area as they know you are watching. ;D ;D ;D
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You could be right Chris, usually anyone within 5 km. of me is fairly aware of my opinions, :) how about you, have you had anyone come to your door with fish for sale like they used to in times past?
This could be a sign that there is more of a trend of sales to commercial buyers, even more reason to shut down businesses that buy illegal fish.
Someone once said that the definition of insanity is to keep doing things the same way over and over and expecting to get different results, well ever since I was a kid in the 50's the DFO has been charging First Nations peoples with catching fish illegally and selling fish illegally and instead of it achieving the results they have desired it has resulted in long lost court battles and the FN's taking more fish, yet I still see people on this forum screaming for more charges to be laid.
It's time we took a different approach to this matter, go after the buyers, increase the penalties charge the people that are creating the markets, like I said before make possesion of illegally caught fish the crime so unethical people fishing with sporting gear wouldn't be exempt either.
Hope to see you in the middle of June in some tight fishing spot where we can't escape each others opinions Chris. :)
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It's not all that different than the lower east side. Target the johns vs the hookers.
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The FNs were out fishing yesterday, I saw a fishing camp set up at the base of Mt Woodside while driving out the Harrison...
It was gone when I came back in the afternoon.
Cheers,
Nicole
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The FNs were out fishing yesterday, I saw a fishing camp set up at the base of Mt Woodside while driving out the Harrison...
It was gone when I came back in the afternoon.
Cheers,
Nicole
They are open, check the DFO site.
You on the other hand will not open till June 16th.
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I was exploring the river last year because I wasnt fishing Sockeye or springs. I found this.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p177/bradbeer/untitled.jpg)
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I was exploring the river last year because I wasnt fishing Sockeye or springs. I found this.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p177/bradbeer/untitled.jpg)
What a shame and a waste of fish, I unfortunately over the years have seen these piles of discarded salmon a few times. Now we hear some F/N spokesmen are concerned there will not be enough fish to feed their families. :o ???
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Such a waste of resource. :(
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hey look, the missing sockeye!!
;D
Nicole