Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[RalphH]

DFO has no right to stop fishermen who have bought their licenses to fish if the conservation concern is not an issue and the objection is not scientifically and mathematically supported by facts on the river.

LOL! That's like claiming the Police have no right to issue tickets to speeders or those who run red lights simply because no other drivers are on the road. They have every right and every legal duty to do so.

There is a conservation argument for closing the river based on the water temperature alone!

On August 15 the discharge of the Fraser River at Hope was 2,925 cms, which is approximately 14% below the historical average for this date. The temperature of the Fraser River at Qualark on August 15 was 20.6 0 C, which is 2.60C higher than average for this date. The Fraser River water temperature at Qualark is forecast to reach 21.1 on August 21. Sustained exposure of sockeye to Fraser River water temperatures in this range has been shown to cause severe stress and early mortality.

[Dogbreath]

Northern BC would sincerely appreciate the "Indignant Salmon Angler Stimulus Package" that you could introduce to our economy. Come on up to region 6 gents! Lot's of places to stay, lot's of fish to catch.

Great Idea-I did it once and had a blast-the Bears scared the sh*t out of me though!

[Tylsie]

LOL! That's like claiming the Police have no right to issue tickets to speeders or those who run red lights simply because no other drivers are on the road. They have every right and every legal duty to do so.

There is a conservation argument for closing the river based on the water temperature alone!

I, and I am sure almost everyone on here would agree, that if they River had been closed for conservation concerns and salmon survival there would be no outcry. But the simple fact of the matter is that it wasn't. The River was closed because First Nations said that if Sporties can fish for the non-endangered Chinook they would continue to net the endangered Sockeye. It is really quite simple. I don't blame the DFO as they are not equipped to deal with type of extortion. Even if they make arrests they will be released and the issue will be in front of the courts for years while the netting continues and last of the sockeye is sold. This is not speculation! It has been well documented that the Sockeye are on the precipice, perhaps they have already fallen.

Now I want to be clear about something else. First Nations are in no way responsible for the collapse of the Sockeye. Loss of spawning grounds, warmer temps, pollution, an excess seal population, and much much more has all contributed. But in the end, when the final net is pulled up and the final sockeye's head lies on the streets of Chilliwack does it really matter? 

[hrenya]

LOL! That's like claiming the Police have no right to issue tickets to speeders or those who run red lights simply because no other drivers are on the road. They have every right and every legal duty to do so.

There is a conservation argument for closing the river based on the water temperature alone!

what chances of catching sockeye or spring bar fishing in tidal area around Richmond ?! be realistic ...
I bought license , I bought tags , why I can fish between runs ?! but at the same time I can use bar rig with roe and target dollys , but not salmon... but if some CO really would like to be a **** he can give me a ticket for that , although I called DFO Steveston and asked if I can bar fish for dollys with roe and shrimp .  How does that work ?! Or give me a discount on "off season salmon fishing" and I will follow advise above and will go fish somewhere else ... I think that`s fair enough , isn't it ?

[TNAngler]

Do you still reside in Tennessee?

I do but all of my family is in WA right across the border and my dad took numerous trips when it was open.  I also followed a lot of the reports on here.  I follow it closely because it has been a couple years since I have been able to fish the Fraser because of the closures and planned a special trip for the week after Labor Day but might have to drag my family down to the Columbia instead if this doesn't get figured out.

[TNAngler]

He does have a point. It's one thing that the freshwater Fraser is closed - bottom bouncers will be out if it is open and that means intercepting Sockeye that are endangered and migrating long distances in extra warm Fraser water. However in the tidal portions of the river you can't even bottom bounce as there is not enough current (fish can travel up the middle if they want), and too much water to cover. People bar fish the tidal portion and you are not going to ever get a Sockeye bar fishing with roe.. only Chinook - if you're really really lucky even. So why have it closed there? Kinda weird.

Because none of this is about the bottom bouncers.  It is just one of the excuses

[TNAngler]

yes i agree, bashing the fn is uncalled for. not all of the people on this forum are properly informed about the issue. it is a very complex issue with no real winners. i respect the fn for what they have done in standing up against bad government and commercial decisions. at the same time i can see the other side as well. people are seeing netting on the vedder taking place and wondering why sockeye are being netted when this year seems to be a bad year and the river is closed to them. unfortunately i think the problem is unsolvable. hope im wrong.

as for the rcmp tweet, both you and i know the authorities can do nothing with the info you have provided from this thread. i am all for protecting the river and oceans. if i see something that should not be happening i call the rapp line but i think that is over kill.

First, I don't support going out and breaking the law.  You can see my posts for the protest fishery as well.  They should be consistent on my stance here.  I cannot see any reason why holding sockeye hostage in this case given the numbers can be seen as anything but greed and enough to make me sick.  If the FN had said "Fine, you are going to let the recreational guys fish, then we are going to fish for Chinook and keep any sockeye by catch" I could understand that.  I suppose if you said their entire goal was to shut everything down completely I guess then maybe it was a success.  Please explain to me why this action shouldn't make me sick.

[RalphH]

Some people are talking out of both sides of their mouth here as just a month ago there was much talk and upset over the fact DFO might not open the sport fishery in early August because of low chinook returns. After threats of a protest fishery there was much gloating that the FRSS forced DFO to open the fishery.

So it's ok for Sport Anglers to exert political pressure to get an opening but not for 1st nations to get a full closure?

This year's closure is consistent with what's been done in the past were there is the combination of low sockeye returns and high river temperatures.

BTW there has been years when there is quite an active sockeye snag fishery in parts of the Fraser below Mission & sockeye can be caught trolling out in the banana.   

[Tangles]

active sockeye snag fishery in parts of the Fraser below Mission & sockeye can be caught trolling out in the banana.

Is this a joke or you just keep trying stirring the pot?
I'd be very curious to see how you can bounce below Mission, total nonsense.
Also please give us some some sport catch numbers from the banana so we can get a grasp on the scale of that fishery.
As others already stated the Tidal closure has nothing to do with sockeye by-catch by sorties.
Have a nice day.

[CohoJake]

Well, now add to this the closure of the Thompson and Upper Fraser river to salmon fishing.  I don't know if bottom bouncing was popular up there at all. 

 Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada

Subject: FN0866-RECREATIONAL - Salmon - Region 3: Fraser River main stem and Thompson River - No Fishing for Salmon

Waters

- The main stem Fraser River in Region 3; and
- The Thompson River from the Kamloops lake outlet downstream to the confluence
with Fraser River

Management Measure: Effective until further notice, you may not fish for
salmon.

Current run size estimates of Fraser River Summer Run sockeye salmon have
resulted in no allowable harvest and a conservation concern.  The Department's
first priority is to ensure that there is sufficient sockeye returning to the
spawning grounds.  The Department will manage all fisheries to minimize sockeye
impacts and provide priority access to First Nations' fishing for food, social
and ceremonial purposes.

The recreational fishery for chinook salmon in these waters was anticipated to
open August 22 but will not open at this time due to the possibility of
impacting co-migrating sockeye salmon.

The Department will continue to review sockeye stock status information on a
regular basis to help inform future fisheries management decisions and fishing
opportunities. If required, updated information will be announced by fishery
notice.

Please visit the DFO Recreational Fishing website for up-to-date Sport fishing
information (www.bcsportfishguide.ca)

Variation Order Number: 2016-363

Notes:

Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation?  If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336 or the British Columbia’s toll-free RAPP line (Report All
Poachers and Polluters) at 1-877-952-RAPP (7277).

For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
1-(866)431-FISH (3474).

FOR MORE INFORMATION:  Dale Michie 250-851-4946

Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0866
Sent August 17, 2016 at 08:56
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

If you would like to unsubscribe, please submit your request at: http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=manage_subscription

If you have any questions, please contact us via e-mail to: OpsCentre@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

[Rodney]

Here's the background information that lead up to this Thompson River closure, from the resource manager for Region 3 and 8.

"With the current situation with conservation concerns of Fraser sockeye similar to the Lower Fraser fishery closures, the Thompson River will not open at this time due to impacts on migrating sockeye and environmental conditions projected for the upcoming weeks. A fishery notice will be released momentarily reflecting the closure until further notice which the Dept. will be monitoring the situation closely. The decision guidelines to open or close chinook directed opportunities was highly weighted to any fisheries known to have impacts on sockeye based on historical creel data would not proceed and fisheries with no impacts based on creel data could proceed. Currently the South Thompson, Lower Shuswap and Mable Lake with numerous years of creel data shows no sockeye encounters which opened today, the Thompson creel data collected previously does show impacts on Fraser sockeye which is collected in three locations ( Savona, Juniper beach and Bonaparte) but we do not have any creel information for the section below Goldpan. With no available creel data for that area even though fishers indicate very few impacts, it is still an impact and without creel data to indicate zero impacts we are not able to open the Thompson fishery at this time. I have discussed the situation with the local SFAC regarding the dept. decision process late last week and why Sandy Macdonald is included in this e-mail as he is the co-chair for the Mid Fraser Thompson Okanagan Sport fishery Advisory Committee."

[CohoJake]

"The return of Fraser sockeye this year is tracking to be the lowest on record."  This is frightening, does anyone know where to access past run escapement totals?  Looking at the Albion test fishery, the sockeye catch this year actually hasn't been too bad, but maybe the Albion test fishery should be reexamined as a method to estimate run size.

Does anyone recall if river conditions were exceptionally poor when the 2012 fish returned?  Given the good return of sockeye to the Columbia river, I have a hard time believing it is only ocean conditions that are the problem here - plus the Chilliwack Lake and Baker lake (Skagit river) sockeye runs are doing pretty decent, if somewhat lower than expected.

[armytruck]

"The return of Fraser sockeye this year is tracking to be the lowest on record."  This is frightening, does anyone know where to access past run escapement totals?  Looking at the Albion test fishery, the sockeye catch this year actually hasn't been too bad, but maybe the Albion test fishery should be reexamined as a method to estimate run size.

Does anyone recall if river conditions were exceptionally poor when the 2012 fish returned?  Given the good return of sockeye to the Columbia river, I have a hard time believing it is only ocean conditions that are the problem here - plus the Chilliwack Lake and Baker lake (Skagit river) sockeye runs are doing pretty decent, if somewhat lower than expected.

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=145461&ID=all
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=145473&ID=all

[VAGAbond]

I think that is three out of four years in the cycle where the runs are very low.  Even if they start to rebuild it will be a generation before they are back.  Seems to me to be a desperate situation requiring immediate precautionary action, i.e. Getting rid of the fish farms now.  No time for further study.  It might be an unnecessary action but it is about the only thing in front of us that might provide improvement.

[CohoJake]

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=145461&ID=all
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=145473&ID=all

Thanks for the links!  So, comparing 2012 to this year, as of this date:

Early Stewart sockeye run size estimate for this year is 18,000, for 2012 it was 185,000 - a decline of more than 90%!
Early summer run size estimate for this year is 250,000, for 2012 it was 550,000, a decline of 55%!
Summer run size estimate for this year is 600,000, for 2012 it was 1,300,000, a decline of 54%!
In 2012, as of this date, they estimated the late run size to be 250,000.  We have no estimate to date for 2016.

I don't know if the 2012 numbers were later revised, but the above contrasts are stark.  The water temp at Qualark in 2012 was 18.2 C, vs. 20.6 now, so I don't know that water temps were an issue in 2012, but they sure are now.