Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fly Fishing Cafe => Topic started by: CW89 on August 19, 2014, 05:33:19 PM
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I have never used a fly rod, I am 25 and just got back into fishing after stopping when I was 12. Fly fishing has always appealed to me. My grandfather used to go on trips to the north and that has always drawn me to the idea of fishing on the fly. Unfortunately he isn't around to teach me anymore. So...
I was wondering if you guys had any resources or tips you could lay out for me. As I said I am a complete green horn. In fact, I don't even own a rod yet. Suggestions on a good beginners setup would be greatly appreciated as I have a birthday coming up and it would be nice to have some suggestions to give people.
I realize I could do a google search and probably will, but I much prefer the interaction of a forum.
Thanks in advance.
TL:DR: newbie to fly fishing looking for tips, resources, basic setup advice and any knowledge the more experienced would pass on.
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if you want to get a low cost, halfway decent setup go to army and navy, they've got really good deals for starter packages. besides that I pretty much learned how to cast from watching youtube but i would also suggest calling around to Michael and Young fly shop, berry's bait and tackle or really any fly shop to see what they offer for a 1 hour lesson. stop bad habits before they start ;) . next, hit your local soccer pitch and practice, practice, practice. it's an amazing sport but it takes some effort. I picked up a fly rod just over 2 years ago and haven't touched my casting gear since...just wait till you get a spey rod in your hands!! 8)
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if you want to get a low cost, halfway decent setup go to army and navy, they've got really good deals for starter packages. besides that I pretty much learned how to cast from watching youtube but i would also suggest calling around to Michael and Young fly shop, berry's bait and tackle or really any fly shop to see what they offer for a 1 hour lesson. stop bad habits before they start ;) . next, hit your local soccer pitch and practice, practice, practice. it's an amazing sport but it takes some effort. I picked up a fly rod just over 2 years ago and haven't touched my casting gear since...just wait till you get a spey rod in your hands!! 8)
I live close to Berry's, I love supporting them. Out of curiousity how much would a starter rod and reel cost. Id prefer to get something decent, so it lasts.
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Depends on what you want to do with it.
One of the rod outfits I have heard of that is quite good is the Orvis Encounter series, but I have no first hand experience with it.
I do have the encounter reel, and I suggest you loosen it (like your suppossed to...) after each outing to avoid compressing the drag.
I know Echo and believe TFO also make begginner outfits. Just shop around.
Another thing to note is what species you are targetting. For example the equipment to fish for stillwater rainbows will vary a little bit from rainbows in a rive., and a fair bit from salmon in a river and different again from salmon in salt.
The main difference is a stillwater rainbow does not require any drag due to the lack of current, allowing hand stripping without losing the fish. In all of my river scenarios I try to get the fish on the reel, as the drag can stop/hold fish while allowing them a little give if they run.
So basically a reel is a line holder in a lake, and on a river has a use in playing the fish.
In terms of getting out, soccer fields/back yards are great ways to practice casting. The issue with rivers for practice is a lack of back cast room and wind, while lakes it is getting out on the water in a boat, high enough up, and wind. Focus on casting for now as mentioned before, as bad casting leads to wind knots and other problems.
Have Fun!
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To start out, I believe (I cant be sure) ill try targeting still water bows. A lot of those terms are foreign to me, but im sure I will pick up.
Furthermore, ive seen rods at different weights. I figure that has something to do with the size of fish that you are targeting. The smaller the fish, the smaller the weight?
EDIT* Those Orvis' look awesome for the price point!
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The TFO rods are excellent value. They cast beautifully and the warranty (important) is excellent. I have a few higher end rods for my main haunts but have various other rods to certain applications. I generally utilize TFO for those and love them.
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Redington, Dragonfly, TFO, Scientific Anglers, Orvis and Amundson all make beginner/starter packages. I got my start last year with a redington package. I fish stillwater rainbow trout, I bought a redington 9' 5wt package that came with a rod tube, and rio floating line. I have since bought cassettes for my reel to hold a sinking line and an intermediate line. You should be able to find a package for around $200. You can learn a lot from watching youtube videos on casting, but I would recommend taking a casting lesson at some point to help refine technique. That is on my "to do" list as I seem to be getting "better", but developing different problems with each stage of progression.
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Would someone mind giving me a breakdown of the importance of length of the rod and the amount of pieces it comes in?
I really appreciate all the info that is being shared as well.
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punch your questions into google and 100 different websites will be happy to teach you about your gear and how to use it
i used sexyloops.com to learn how a rod works and fly cast
i think the amount of pieces depends on how you want to travel, im sure the more pieces though affects the strength, action and weight a bit though too
i think the length is more depending on the area you are fishing, shorter rods are easier casted in smaller spaces.
I find it much easier using my 9ft rod over the 7'6" both 6wts, as i can use a shorter stroke and pick the line off the water much easier
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I'm kinda in the same boat. I do the drive to SeaRun in Coquitlam and ask those guys all my questions. They'll set you straight. Michael and Young on Broadway or Pacific Angler down the street are likely equally as good. The times i've been in they're really helpful and patient with beginner questions, I've just more experience with searun and I like their rod layouts.
if you're going to spend money on a setup, don't be shy with the questions..if you don't jive with the sales persons go find someone you're comfortable with. I'm going to be fishing for a while and not moving anytime soon so may as well develop relationships.
I do shop at Berry's, and I like the guys, they are who they are, but I wouldn't go to them for fly fishing or any gear advice personally.
Wholesale and Army Navy are likely cheaper once you know exactly what you want or need, but not by a lot, and it'll be hit and miss with advice/questions.
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My girlfriend lives in PoCo, so maybe a quick jaunt to Sea Run is in order. I'll gladly pay a little extra for personable serive. I just feel like I'm running blind here. So a visit to a shop should greatly help.
I think I am leaning towards a 9' 6 wt. ... I think.
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I went to pacific angler last year and got set up by matt with a starter redington package and all the stuff I needed (sink tips, some flies etc.) to start salmon fishing. Pop on by and have a chat with them. They're all very passionate about fishing and will be more than willing to answer your questions
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you should consider buying a salmon setup for the fall fishing as well as one for stillwater rainbows.
I have a great starter setup I will be putting up for sale shortly but your welcome to grab it before I do
rod used once, line used once, reel is brand new never used
Redington Pursuit 7100 (10' 7wt)
Echo Ion reel
Rio Versa tip with tips plus type 8 tip
$250 firm (retail is around $400)
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I went to pacific angler last year and got set up by matt with a starter redington package and all the stuff I needed (sink tips, some flies etc.) to start salmon fishing. Pop on by and have a chat with them. They're all very passionate about fishing and will be more than willing to answer your questions
Awesome. I enjoy hearing about all these stores with good customer service reputations. Will add it to the list of stores I have to visit.
you should consider buying a salmon setup for the fall fishing as well as one for stillwater rainbows.
I have a great starter setup I will be putting up for sale shortly but your welcome to grab it before I do
rod used once, line used once, reel is brand new never used
Redington Pursuit 7100 (10' 7wt)
Echo Ion reel
Rio Versa tip with tips plus type 8 tip
$250 firm (retail is around $400)
I will definitely keep that in mind and appreciate the offer. If I end up getting a setup as a gift, I may have to take you up on the offer. As of now I have $300 for a rod and most of my friends target trout. But, that may have to change.
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A 6 weight is a good compromise for interior lakes. Enough backbone for larger fish and windy days, while not to heavy for smaller trout. Once you progress, you can buy rods that are more specific to different situations.
If buying reasonable priced rod, 2 piece or 4 makes no difference except for ease of transport and storage. Some still believe
the action is better with a 2 piece. This was true decades ago, but rod manufacture is so good now I can't tell the difference.
I have been flyfishing for decades and still go to SeaRun for advice. You can never know to much. If you can afford an hour lesson, it will give you a good start.
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Berry's helped with my first flyrod because, at the time, I did the steelhead/salmon thing and was in there all the time. Later, I visited M&Y in Surrey and, after window shopping a while, they hooked me up. Since then, they've been my store. Point is, I think the long-term relationship with the store of your choice is something that goes beyond price and is a good investment in itself. So it's important to go and see a few then decide where you like best based on inventory, staff, etc. Price isn't always everything; for me, it's the relationship, the vibe.
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My girlfriend lives in PoCo, so maybe a quick jaunt to Sea Run is in order. I'll gladly pay a little extra for personable serive. I just feel like I'm running blind here. So a visit to a shop should greatly help.
I think I am leaning towards a 9' 6 wt. ... I think.
You'll dig the layout of the store. I talk to Ron for fly stuff and Andrew for everything else, but I think that's just by chance as the times I'm in there it's who was working. They're all super nice.
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Sea run and Michael and young are my two favourite stores.
Both because of their fly tying sections, they are sweet.
But they also give excellent advixe
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I appreciate all the advice, I think I am going to hit Sea-Run on monday evening.
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Don't rule out getting ALL your gear used. Most guys look after their gear fairly well and in most cases you can buy 50 cents on the dollar. You'd be surprised what $300 will get you. The nice thing is that you don't have to worry about warranty cards now so you don't have to ne an original owner. Five decades of fly fisjing still water has told me that a 5 wt. rod is your best all around rod wt. It will easily handle fish to 8 lbs. and you'll still feel the fight from a 1 1/2 lb fish.
My preferred set up is a 10' 4 wt., followed by 5 wts. That extra foot of rod makes landing fish easier. I usually only fish trophy lakes and have never felt like I don't have enough stick to get the job done with either of those rod weights. I would look for a reel that has interchangeable cassettes because you'll want a floating line, a clear intermediate line, and a heavier density sinking line. At this stage of the game you'll likely be trolling your flies so your intermediate line will probably be your line of choice. Once you start anchoring and casting, a floating line is often the "go to" line…..especially when fishing chironomids, a trout's main source of food during the ice off period.
Good quality lines will make your casting learning curve shorter. Once again, lots of barely used lines on the classifieds of fly fishing forums like FlyBC, Spey Pages (you'll see some single handers) and Washington Fly Fishing. Once again, often half price! I like Rio, but Scientific Angler lines are VERY good, as well. Lining up by one or even two line weights in the early going will make casting easier because it will help you load the rod in order to cast until you can iron out casting errors. Getting a lesson is a very good idea!
Get a decent, long handled catch and release landing net, as well, because it's so much better for the fish. If you plan on fishing out of a float tube you'll have to go with a shorter one.
Good start up rods that will give you the best bang for your buck are TFO and Echo so look for those. Once you've figure out what you're after and how much you have to spend post WTB ads on those web sites mentioned. You'll be surprised by how many guys will respond in order to help you out.
One last thing. Read as much as you can about fly fishing in the Pacific Northwest. One of the best books out there, even though it was written more than 2 decades ago, is the Gilly. Other very good authors who have written good books to check out are by Brian Chan and Phil Rowley. Keep asking questions because there are no bad ones~
BTW, one rod, one reel, and a couple of lines usually turns into MANY more down the road! Somehow they tend to multiply when stored in dark places. LOL
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Don't rule out getting ALL your gear used. Most guys look after their gear fairly well and in most cases you can buy 50 cents on the dollar. You'd be surprised what $300 will get you. The nice thing is that you don't have to worry about warranty cards now so you don't have to ne an original owner. Five decades of fly fisjing still water has told me that a 5 wt. rod is your best all around rod wt. It will easily handle fish to 8 lbs. and you'll still feel the fight from a 1 1/2 lb fish.
My preferred set up is a 10' 4 wt., followed by 5 wts. That extra foot of rod makes landing fish easier. I usually only fish trophy lakes and have never felt like I don't have enough stick to get the job done with either of those rod weights. I would look for a reel that has interchangeable cassettes because you'll want a floating line, a clear intermediate line, and a heavier density sinking line. At this stage of the game you'll likely be trolling your flies so your intermediate line will probably be your line of choice. Once you start anchoring and casting, a floating line is often the "go to" line…..especially when fishing chironomids, a trout's main source of food during the ice off period.
Good quality lines will make your casting learning curve shorter. Once again, lots of barely used lines on the classifieds of fly fishing forums like FlyBC, Spey Pages (you'll see some single handers) and Washington Fly Fishing. Once again, often half price! I like Rio, but Scientific Angler lines are VERY good, as well. Lining up by one or even two line weights in the early going will make casting easier because it will help you load the rod in order to cast until you can iron out casting errors. Getting a lesson is a very good idea!
Get a decent, long handled catch and release landing net, as well, because it's so much better for the fish. If you plan on fishing out of a float tube you'll have to go with a shorter one.
Good start up rods that will give you the best bang for your buck are TFO and Echo so look for those. Once you've figure out what you're after and how much you have to spend post WTB ads on those web sites mentioned. You'll be surprised by how many guys will respond in order to help you out.
One last thing. Read as much as you can about fly fishing in the Pacific Northwest. One of the best books out there, even though it was written more than 2 decades ago, is the Gilly. Other very good authors who have written good books to check out are by Brian Chan and Phil Rowley. Keep asking questions because there are no bad ones~
BTW, one rod, one reel, and a couple of lines usually turns into MANY more down the road! Somehow they tend to multiply when stored in dark places. LOL
Wow fantastic read. I appreciate the effort you took, I will have to take note of all that. Ive started looking up terms, "intermediate line," "cassettes" and the like. Thanks again for the response, exactly why I wanted to post here and not just google it all.
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definitely agree that theres tons of quality used gear i got 3 setups this summer off the same guy 4 wt, 6wt, 8wt for 200, he was done with fishing as he was in his latter years.
Off topic question, why would you troll with your fly gear? wouldnt it be more efficient to use gear and tie a fly on?
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Off topic question, why would you troll with your fly gear? wouldnt it be more efficient to use gear and tie a fly on?
I think he meant trolling leeches/wooly buggers from a float tube/pontoon/boat - it's how I started and had great success.
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A great resource that I would recommend is the "How to Fly Fish" website from orvis. Lots of great video lessons on a variety of fly fishing topics. Orvis also put out an awesome fly fishing podcast. Tom Rosenbauer does them and they really are educational and super interesting.
Brian Chan and Phil Rowley are two of the best Stillwater experts around, and their books and video clips are great.
I would start at some local lakes just after they are stoked. The rainbows are small but pretty easy to catch. A frustrating part of leaning fly fishing is getting skunked all the time (it's frustrating at any stage really). Check out gofishbc got stocking reports and locations.
Most importantly, enjoy the experience and being outdoors. Fly fishing is a lifelong passion and leaning experience. Good luck!
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Question: is there a massive jump in technology from say the TFO outfit to the Sage approach outfit. Would it be worth going with the higher quality Approach setup for a difference of $300.
TL:DR - would a rookie notice the $300 difference from the TFO to the Sage approach. Is it worth going high quality right away?
I've always been under the impression you get what you pay for.
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Hmmm Personally I believe the approach outfit is not a good deal.
For a break down, a Rio Gold WF line is $74.95, and the reel itself is 139.95.
So basically you save around $15 with the outfit price at $495.00. (plus the backing is free, originally forgot that)
However that being said you are getting a quality fly line, fly reel, and a good rod.
But shop around a little. There is nothing wrong with buying used, or buying say a sage approach, a SA GPX line, and to round out say an Orvis/Redington reel etc...
As I have not casted either rod, I cannot give an idea behind differences in the outfit. One thing I noticed on the sage website is the approach is made from there older graphite III. Another graphite III rod, the RPL is sought after by many fly fishermen (IF someone sells one, they usually say they will regret it).
But that doesn't mean the approach will be that much better.
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the Approach is Sage's lowest end model and I doubt you would notice the difference. I have cast a lot of fly rods over the years and its really more about the rods "action" than its price tag. I own a Sage Launch in a 4wt, great rod and a pleasure to cast and fight fish on. I would say the Launch is directly comparable to the Approach series that replaced it.
I wouldn't bother buying based on price. Buy what you can afford comfortably and upgrade over time if you feel the need to. TFO and Echo are both great rods for their price points and are designed by people that know their stuff
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For a first time setup for you, I would go with a TFO Rod, Not to expensive but gives you that life time warranty if something were to happen, Nothing worse then blowing a huge chunk of money then figuring out you dont like it.
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Personally, I would prefer to buy three cheaper rods instead of one really high end rod.
Any fly rod over $150 is going to be a good rod. If you buy second hand (which is a great idea), for $150 you are going to get a rod that was $400 a few years ago.
For trout, you don't need to spend much at all on a reel. A good line is really what makes a big difference. You will rarely get a trout on the reel anyway. You can strip in almost any sized trout in the lower mainland. A trout reel only holds the line... If you get a reel for salmon or steelhead, that's another story.
There are plenty of good package deals out there. Many people spend a few hundred $$$ on a set up and then use it half a dozen times before deciding fly fishing isn't for them. You can pick up a gret deal if you look around.
For trout, a 9 foot 5 weight is perfect. Anything from: Redington, TFO, or echo would be a great start. If you look after it, a rod should last many many years, and so should a trout reel. Fly lines last a few seasons if fished heavily.
I personally wouldn't buy a sage, Scott, loomis etc, for a trout rod.
The package HOOK has is a great salmon and steelhead set up. A versi tip line system gives you pretty much every line you will need in one kit.
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Thanks for all the awesome replies. I knew it would be beneficial to ask around. I'm headed to Sea Run tomorrow to do some window shopping.
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just an fyi that my setup has been sold already :D
gotta jump quick a lot of the time when it comes to good used gear especially when people know the person enough to know their stuff will be in near brand new condition
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Hook I would have snapped up that set had i been looking for another rod reel etc, great deal
don't think i could explain yet another rod and reel to my Wife :'(
I started off with a cheap set up, actually think i still have it
i now have many rods and reels as I realized I needed different ones for different situations
My Wife still doesn't understand why I need so many, i just tell her its like a set of golf clubs, different ones for different situations
I have learned that buying cheap is not the way to go, but also that I don't need top of the range
CW89 good luck with what you go for and maybe see you out on the water sometime
Fly fishing is addictive, before you know it you will be tying your own flies ;)
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Apart from outfit, waders and boots. What else would you consider vital to a new fly fisherman.
e.g. types of flies, vest... so on and so forth.
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forceps, scissors, leaders and a pile of flies
its easiest to learn casting floating line before switching to sink tips or full sinking line
that doesnt mean you are stuck fishing drys at the start
just means your wet flies or nymphs wont be getting near the strike zone if you are fishing deeper faster water
or theres the option of practicing on a soccer field to master casting
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Apart from outfit, waders and boots. What else would you consider vital to a new fly fisherman.
e.g. types of flies, vest... so on and so forth.
You can't get everything at once. You need to pick the seasonal quarry and just target that to get you started. Coho are up later this month and thru October. If you're going to start there, pick up a decent 7 or 8wt with a multi tip line or a basic floater and have someone cut it back for you to allow different sink tips changes. If your reel comes with a spare spool then try find a clear intermediate sink line.
Flies, start with a few of each of weighted and no weight. I would start with black wooly buggers and some natural and olive muddler minnows, a few christmas trees and a few coho flies. Finish the Coho season like that. Once you start loosing flies to fish, trees, snags, poor casting whips losses and the occasional hooked neighbor or passer by, you will quickly realize that you will need to start tieing you own flies. My first weekend fishing started with Coho season and it was a killer year with limits of 4 every time out to the vedder that month. After the first weekend and about $70 in flies later, I bought a basic tieing kit and started that tieing my own that Monday.
You'll need some leader and tippet - don't need to get fancy. 6 or 8 # for Coho and 10+ for Spring and Chum.
Get a nail knot tool and practice a few knots to connect your tippet to the leader. Get a clipper or leader tag nipper with a eye cleaning needle. Don't need that but its handy. Pliers are needed to mash the barbs down and to remove solid or foul hooked fish.
Please wear eye protection and a hat, when learning to cast on the river your head and face will get in the way of a perfectly good cast at least once a day. Take some larger bandaids because your stripping finger is going to get cut thru the skin. You hands will get soft from the wet line and then the strip to set the hook will result in a deep cut in the crease of your finger joint.
Don't forget a knife and don't put your reel in the sand.
Bring a bag for your fish, a fishing license and a pen.
Ideally you can bring along an experienced and patient fly fisherperson with you to get you set up correctly and help you with fly and line selection, casting, mending (overall line management) and stripping.
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Consider a lesson, Pacific does excellent courses. If you know someone who fly fishes ask them. There are also plenty of good youtube instructional videos.
If you fish bigger rivers and are not a strong swimmer consider a fishing PFD.
Please always check the Regulations when fish, particularly if you are considering retention, and practice careful C&R techniques.
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Just modifying above advice. Once your hands get wet from stripping retyng on flies can result in mono/flouro cuts.
They are worse then papercuts, so be careful. Also if you hold the line to tightly on a strip etc. the fly line can friction burn.
But really that is minor. And for me personal preference is to have forceps over pliers. Being able to clamp them in tight can make hook removal easier, and less prone to slip.
Also they work as a depth indicator if you get into lake fishing with chironies.
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Here is a decent how to video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxVvVoqFbIU
GL