Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on October 15, 2012, 05:13:54 AM
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http://donstaniford.typepad.com/my-blog/2012/10/two-dead-after-eating-infected-farmed-salmon-death-toll-predicted-to-rise-to-17-.html
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Wait for it Chris. the farmtroopers will be along shortly with naysaying and excuses all over the place. ( They may even dig up "Annie" for this one) I hope the company responsible is held to account.
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That's certainly terrible news Chris. Nobody deserves to die from eating any type of food, whether it's farmed salmon or home grown beef and I feel sad for the families involved. Perhaps though, because of this tragedy this blight on our oceans and sea's will be annihilated and destroyed and leave our water's to natures natural course. One can only hope.
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By that logic, beef feedlots should be eliminated because of the E. coli outbreak at the XL packing plant.
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By that logic, beef feedlots should be eliminated because of the E. coli outbreak at the XL packing plant.
ACCOUNTABILITY
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By that logic, beef feedlots should be eliminated because of the E. coli outbreak at the XL packing plant.
Perhaps they should be Absolon, but at least the head of XL Foods has openly apologized and manned up. We shall see in the coming days whether the leaders of this fish farm show some class and some accountability for these deaths. Also as far as beef goes I don't see a lot of open air pollution, environmentally unsound use of chemicals or anything that disrupts the normal natural order of mother nature. Unlike fish farms.
People eat a lot more beef than farmed fish as well and they should take responsibility for how they prepare it, store it and eat it. It's not always the manufacturer's fault. Gotta' go, have a Great day Everyone !!!
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I'm uncertain what you expect the owners of some salmon farm to "man up" to. Just as XL is a processor of beef products and not a producer of cattle, Foppen is a processor of seafood products, not a producer of salmon. Just as the E.coli problem arose from XL's processing facility and not the feedlots that produced the cattle, Foppen grew and packed the salmonella that infected the fish in it's processing plant in Greece and it is they who are accountable, not the farms that grew the fish. After all, Salmonella is not a disease live fish are carriers for even if it has Salmon in the name.
This sort of error of interpretation being promoted by Staniford and apparently Chris is avoidable if one uses even a modicum of critical thinking and common sense when looking at the information being offered as damning evidence. I can understand why Staniford is doing it and expect this kind of abuse of the facts because it's his stock in trade and presumably the "job he gets done". Given the circumstances, I'm not sure why Chris thought this was important enough to post.
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I think you've sliced the fins off this one absolon. Perhaps your most surgical post :)
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I think you've sliced the fins off this one absolon. Perhaps your most surgical post :)
Important for some and not so much for the Abby it appears. :( :o
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I'm uncertain what you expect the owners of some salmon farm to "man up" to. Just as XL is a processor of beef products and not a producer of cattle, Foppen is a processor of seafood products, not a producer of salmon. Just as the E.coli problem arose from XL's processing facility and not the feedlots that produced the cattle, Foppen grew and packed the salmonella that infected the fish in it's processing plant in Greece and it is they who are accountable, not the farms that grew the fish. After all, Salmonella is not a disease live fish are carriers for even if it has Salmon in the name.
This sort of error of interpretation being promoted by Staniford and apparently Chris is avoidable if one uses even a modicum of critical thinking and common sense when looking at the information being offered as damning evidence. I can understand why Staniford is doing it and expect this kind of abuse of the facts because it's his stock in trade and presumably the "job he gets done". Given the circumstances, I'm not sure why Chris thought this was important enough to post.
well put Absolon.
Farming salmon will be a necessity in the foreseeable future ... the idea of it's viability is not what needs to be addressed as much the way it's logistics are constructed and managed. i don't see salmon farming for it's monetary value, i see it as a necessity to alleviate the pressures on our ever diminishing resources and also create means (not only for salmon, but other species) to help feed the populace.
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well put Absolon.
Farming salmon will be a necessity in the foreseeable future ... the idea of it's viability is not what needs to be addressed as much the way it's logistics are constructed and managed. i don't see salmon farming for it's monetary value, i see it as a necessity to alleviate the pressures on our ever diminishing resources and also create means (not only for salmon, but other species) to help feed the populace.
If we did a better job of looking after our wild stocks there would be no need to have these damaging farms. Farms of course is another destructive element that wild fish have to deal with.
As I have said so many times but Abby and the others always overlook all the problems farms have caused in other countries that have had farms a lot longer than us, this is a known fact they have destroyed salmon and trout stocks.
From a report from Scotland this year.
"Salmon aquaculture has now been with us in Scotland for more than four decades, since the first fish were raised in cages in Loch Ailort by the first incarnation of Marine Harvest. During the first twenty years or so of its existence, there was a fairly substantial failure to see the problems which were likely to arise. The result is that we're now living with the severe impacts on Scotland's biodiversity which have built up cumulatively, while successive governments and regulators paid too little attention. In many Highland rivers, populations of native salmon and sea trout are now so depleted as to be almost totally lost."
SAD
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Important for some and not so much for the Abby it appears. :( :o
Why is it important to you Chris? It's a story about a seafood processing plant in Greece failing to follow safe procedure, nothing more, nothing less. It has nothing to do with salmon aquaculture even if the headline says two people died after eating infected farm salmon. I'm astounded that a man of your wisdom and experience isn't able to see that.
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I think you've sliced the fins off this one absolon. Perhaps your most surgical post :)
Thanks for that Dave but I can't take credit for simply stating the glaringly obvious. I guess the headline putting two deaths into the same sentence as farmed fish was simply too much for Staniford to resist even if the article was actually about a problem at a fish processor. Perhaps he was counting on his friends to be fairly non-critical and pass it on without giving it any thought.
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well put Absolon.
Farming salmon will be a necessity in the foreseeable future ... the idea of it's viability is not what needs to be addressed as much the way it's logistics are constructed and managed. i don't see salmon farming for it's monetary value, i see it as a necessity to alleviate the pressures on our ever diminishing resources and also create means (not only for salmon, but other species) to help feed the populace.
At last, a rational voice in the wilderness................. ;)
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I am definitely not aware of Salmonella being a disease live fish are carriers for. If it is something I am missing then please point me in the right direction, Chris. In my opinion, it is very plausible that this came about from contamination in the processing plant where the fish (being smoked) came in contact with other foods in the facility which contained Salmonella. I cannot see how it originated from the fish farm itself unless someone can demonstrate to me otherwise. It does not make the incident excusable because when we purchase our food whether it is beef, pork, chicken or fish we do not want something like E.coli or Salmonella. I am not surprised by Don’s actions with this one as it is tailor made for maximum “shock and awe”…..and that’s about it.
Yes, another great contribution to wild salmon from Don Staniford...lol. Chris, people like you and Dave have done a hellava lot more for wild salmon and trout than Don has ever done. Guys in local fish and game clubs around the province have done more for wild fish than Don Staniford. If anything, Don should be looking up to guys like you.
In case someone thinks Salmonella was named after the fish with the similar name:
Salmonella is named after Daniel Elmer Salmon, the first veterinary student to graduate with a DVM degree in the US, from Cornell University in 1876.
http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesandconditions/a/Salmonella.htm
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If we did a better job of looking after our wild stocks there would be no need to have these damaging farms. Farms of course is another destructive element that wild fish have to deal with.
As I have said so many times but Abby and the others always overlook all the problems farms have caused in other countries that have had farms a lot longer than us, this is a known fact they have destroyed salmon and trout stocks.
From a report from Scotland this year.
"Salmon aquaculture has now been with us in Scotland for more than four decades, since the first fish were raised in cages in Loch Ailort by the first incarnation of Marine Harvest. During the first twenty years or so of its existence, there was a fairly substantial failure to see the problems which were likely to arise. The result is that we're now living with the severe impacts on Scotland's biodiversity which have built up cumulatively, while successive governments and regulators paid too little attention. In many Highland rivers, populations of native salmon and sea trout are now so depleted as to be almost totally lost."
SAD
i understand where you're coming from Chris, but in a world of 7 billion, we need to improve our methods of diversification. already we've domesticated 80% of the worlds plants and animals and ironically (even as a proponent of conservation), i find it unrealistic to eliminate the farming industry...the days of organics and eating off the land has since long passed.
yes we need to protect our wild species, but we also need to find new ways and innovation to feed the people...we can't do that by sitting on our hands, crying foul and having our fingers crossed, hoping someday we'll come up with a solution.
Farming salmon is not the problem...It's the Practices and Methods that should be of concern.
one plausible solution, containment away from the fish's natural habitat.
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one plausible solution, containment away from the fish's natural habitat.
A place like Chile comes to mind......
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Yes Chile.
They've had their fair share of snafus...but with careful planning and research, they've managed to bounce back to the fore front of the industry....their inland rearing and expertise in aquaculture along with strict guidelines for micro security can be used as a template or stepping stone for our own success.
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It is may understanding that there is a Closed system Salmon Farm raising Coho in Agassiz. Anyone know much about their model and whether this model could be used across the industry? To my knowledge it is not connected to any Waterbody where it could hurt wild fish. Info, thoughts, anyone?
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Very small system.
I believe (don't quote me) that he only raises them to a certain size before transporting them to a pen somewhere.
They also do a variety of other plants (multi species aquaculture) and I believe he is looking into (possibly already doing) crayfish too.
I will find out more soon, I'll shoot my buddy a message as he worked there for a few months.
As for whether or not this could be used in industry, the answer is no.
He is a very small operation business, doesn't need to pay out much, and he doesn't produce a heck of a lot of fish.
Industry simply wants to pump out a tonne of fish. With costs associated and the potential for catastrophic failure (all fish dying in a matter of minutes), industry cannot sustain on closed containment.
Cheers,
Dan
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So a little more info...
He does indeed raise them to grow out size in the freshwater, up to the 5-10 pound range.
He also raises crayfish, which are connected to the waste water of the fish he raises.
That being said, he doesn't raise many fish.
As far as I have seen, been taught and know of, there is no way commercial aquaculture could sustain on such a land based operation. Food cost, water cost (pumping if not connected to any fish bearing stream), sanitation, heating, and overall production costs are just overall not worth it.
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So a little more info...
He does indeed raise them to grow out size in the freshwater, up to the 5-10 pound range.
He also raises crayfish, which are connected to the waste water of the fish he raises.
That being said, he doesn't raise many fish.
As far as I have seen, been taught and know of, there is no way commercial aquaculture could sustain on such a land based operation. Food cost, water cost (pumping if not connected to any fish bearing stream), sanitation, heating, and overall production costs are just overall not worth it.
You really need to do a bit more than guess what he's done. :-\ All farming tecniques come with a learning curve. So you can write him off in your books. But the guy might be onto something down the road. Just because there is a cheeper way of raising salmon promoted for profit right now. Does not make it the only way to do things. Unless you don't care about the side affects. :-\
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He isn't guessing; in fact he's right on the money but you could have figured that out for yourself if you put a bit of effort into researching it. That would have given you a better basis for your comments.
The company is Swift Aquaculture and he raised about ten tonnes of coho a year in freshwater as well as crayfish, watercress and wasabi to serve a local niche market selling directly to restaurants. Apparently, the business has been sold and is now Golden Eagle Aquaculture. The purchaser, the Aqualini Group is still operating it but is apparently proposing to switch to Atlantics and scale up production 100 fold to 1000 tonnes per year. Whether that plan is actually viable or ever comes to fruition remains to be seen.
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So if the Aquilini group can successfully ramp up production to the 1000 tonnes per year of harvest production, it is possible that this could be an economically viable and environmentally responsible way to farm salmon? According to the salmon farming lobbyist I am looking at here 75-80 farms produce 75, 000-85, 000 tonnes per year. So that would be a pretty average output level.
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He isn't guessing; in fact he's right on the money but you could have figured that out for yourself if you put a bit of effort into researching it. That would have given you a better basis for your comments.
The company is Swift Aquaculture and he raised about ten tonnes of coho a year in freshwater as well as crayfish, watercress and wasabi to serve a local niche market selling directly to restaurants. Apparently, the business has been sold and is now Golden Eagle Aquaculture. The purchaser, the Aqualini Group is still operating it but is apparently proposing to switch to Atlantics and scale up production 100 fold to 1000 tonnes per year. Whether that plan is actually viable or ever comes to fruition remains to be seen.
Do you think Roberto Luongo could learn to feed fish, lol
Sorry for that :D. 1000 tonnes a year would take a lot of water and from what I remember of that farm it's all in the ground .
This should be fun to watch.
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So if the Aquilini group can successfully ramp up production to the 1000 tonnes per year of harvest production, it is possible that this could be an economically viable and environmentally responsible way to farm salmon? According to the salmon farming lobbyist I am looking at here 75-80 farms produce 75, 000-85, 000 tonnes per year. So that would be a pretty average output level.
That kind of a production increase isn't possible from scaling up the existing system; a full-on redesign would be required. More importantly, the concept is yet to be proven viable at production scale. There are a few of these recirculating operations being set up based on a recent technical report but none yet are standalone successful operations and none yet are able to produce fish of a size the market prefers and pays premium prices for. Those price premiums are critical to earning enough revenue to survive. I suspect that Aquilini is just sticking their toes in the water with some preliminary research and that their purchase of Swift will prove profitable for them even if they don't build the bigger operation.
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Sounds like a lot of guessing absolon. ::)
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It might to someone who doesn't understand what's involved.
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Sounds like a lot of guessing absolon. ::)
Gotta love how many words he uses though....... ;D