Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spawn Sack on December 01, 2013, 12:14:56 PM
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This winter will be my 4th season river fishing and steelheading. The 1st I had no idea what I was doing, and each successive year I've gotten better and better. I do fairly well with salmon now; although still lots to learn and I'm always looking to learn something new. I have learned a lot from this website, several fishing shows I now PRV, BC Outdoors magazine, etc.
I won't disclose my actual steelhead #'s, but let's just say I'd really like to up my game. Last season I "got serious" and bought several books on the topic, read a lot online, etc., and was sure I'd get into some s/h, but no luck. Often I go out by myself or with my g/f. I am hoping to fill some information gaps that I can pass onto her and other anglers in the future.
The big question I usually ponder the night before going out steelheading is "where should I go?" I normally go to places that I know to be productive steelehad runs (ie. Lickman run) and fish it from head to tail out, trying to "grid" the water and cover all that looks fishy.
When I get to the end of the run I'm usually stuck with the dilemma...should I keep moving down river...or walk back up to the head of this run and fish it again? Normally I keep moving down river as I believe covering the most water possible = best chance of a hook up. I'm not really sure if there is ever a time when one would want to stay on a "good spot" and just wait for one/some to come through.
So, in other words, I have a lot to learn when it comes to finding/hunting steelhead. I'm lacking strategy, I typically move or don't move haphazzardly and hope that my hook will cross paths with an unsuspecting steelhead. I want to learn to steelhead smarter, not harder. I believe my water reading skills are decent and my choice of lure/bait are likely to entice a steelhead, but it's possible this could use some tweaking as well.
I'd appreciate any tips anyone has to offer on this site. In the event any of you seasoned steelheaders would like to pass on some on the river knowledge to an eager angler, I go out fairly often and given my shift work schedule, I have a fair bit of time off. Right now I only s/h on the Vedder (I live in Sardis). My home email is kcp@alumni.sfu.ca
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heading to the same run over and over may yeild a few fish from time to time but your not learning anything new or learning new steelhead lies, you got to get past going to familiar runs and explore NEW water, keep a journal or mental notes on conditions of new runs, times of day and what types of water you fish/encounter and what baits you try.
learning to read water comes with fishing lots of different types of runs and structure, explore and be rewarded.
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I am in the exact same position as you. I found a really good article called: Run and Gun Steelhead, on the fishonbc.com website. I will be putting this method to use this steelhead season. Hopefully this can help u out.
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heading to the same run over and over may yeild a few fish from time to time but your not learning anything new or learning new steelhead lies, you got to get past going to familiar runs and explore NEW water, keep a journal or mental notes on conditions of new runs, times of day and what types of water you fish/encounter and what baits you try.
learning to read water comes with fishing lots of different types of runs and structure, explore and be rewarded.
I agree although I disagree at the same time lol. Fishing the same spot over and over will teach you where fish hold in certain conditions in that spot. It's best to have a circuit of spots to fish, I prefer to fish a stretch that has multiple types of water ranging from big deep pools to wide runs and everything in between.
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heading to the same run over and over may yeild a few fish from time to time but your not learning anything new or learning new steelhead lies, you got to get past going to familiar runs and explore NEW water, keep a journal or mental notes on conditions of new runs, times of day and what types of water you fish/encounter and what baits you try.
learning to read water comes with fishing lots of different types of runs and structure, explore and be rewarded.
I hear what you're saying. With salmon fishing I've upped my game big time in the last couple years. I've learned a lot about where certain types of salmon are likely to be depending on the water conditions, time of day, run timing, etc. I've also worked hard on fishing different types of lures/bait/etc and figured out many things that work well and many that don't. I've also explored a lot of new water and discovered many nice runs. I don't have any written notes, but tons of mental notes :)
With steelheading however 99% of the time it's tried X, no fish. Switched to Y, no fish. Fished all the way from A to B, no fish. So I have yet to find what works, draw conclusions, etc. I believe I need to learn more regarding how to "hunt" steelhead, when to stay, when to move, etc. With salmon I often find a nice run and just hammer it all day. I know with s/h this isn't the best strategy.
The last 2 seasons I started out super gung-ho, exploring lots of new water, bushwacking, etc. However by February or so, especially after hearing of all the fish being caught at Lickman, etc (and sometime SEEING guys with s/h while walking my dog by these runs ???) I eventually have found myself gravitating towards the "established runs." I would prefer to explore more any fish water with few or no other anglers on it. It's just hard, as one writer put it on another thread, to get past the "mental barrier" of fishing all day for and staying motivated and confident in what you are offering up.
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I am in the exact same position as you. I found a really good article called: Run and Gun Steelhead, on the fishonbc.com website. I will be putting this method to use this steelhead season. Hopefully this can help u out.
Sweet thanks I'll check it out for sure!
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I agree although I disagree at the same time lol. Fishing the same spot over and over will teach you where fish hold in certain conditions in that spot. It's best to have a circuit of spots to fish, I prefer to fish a stretch that has multiple types of water ranging from big deep pools to wide runs and everything in between.
This is more what I have been leaning towards. One day I was chatting with a guy on the river who is a known accomplished steelheader. I was telling him how I had covered miles of river today with no results. His response was something to the effect of "pick a handful of runs you like and LEARN them. Learn where the honey holes are, why the fish lie there, etc."
I discovered a few new runs this year salmon fishing that IMO will be awesome steelhead runs. My plan is to work them head to tail and really pay attention to the water and try to up my water reading skills.
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Here's my approach to the vedder. Be super impatient lol! But seriously that was the key for me to finding fish more consistently over the past few years. Head out early season and cover as much water as you can, make a note of where you hook a fish, see a fish, see an angler catch a fish ect. Then as the season goes on visit them frequently! I had a rock last year which I saw another angler catch a fish at, I most likely would have not even fished it as it didn't look very fishy. However because I saw someone get a fish there I came back the next day and got one myself, this one rock gave me 6 fish last year, not every trip but consistently enough to keep coming back. I also had a piece of water about 150 yards long which I saw an angler hook a fish in about mid-late December. I came back a week later and pulled a fish out. My buddy and I had our best day steel heading ever last year in that stretch of river as well. Anyways to get consistent hookups be sure to note where you see fish holding throughout the year, they will sit there again. The only time I will fish through a run more then once is if I get a hit or know that a fish is in the run. Even the most fishy looking spots sometimes just don't hold fish. So covering lots of water is key, knowing the conditions which will dictate which spots will hold fish is as well but to really find the fish on a heavy pressure flow like the vedder is to watch others as most of the time they can do the work for you.
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I recommend to keep a journal for records.
When i explore new water i wont remember all the goodies. Books help.
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Last year I had that same attitude, tried to stay away from the crowds. I would come up with a game plan in the morning of what 3 or 4 runs I d wanna fish for the day, but i d show up and see 3 or 4 other guys fishing the same spot so I would just walk right past the run. But soon I found myself doin more walking then fishing. I ended up fishing with a friend and he pointed something out to me. 80 percent of the guys fishing for steelhead on the river don't know Wut they re doin. They stake down in one spot and fish the same section of the run for hours, don't get me wrong some of these guys catch fish, but I think it's mostly luck of the draw. So I started just fishing around these guys. I start above them work down the run then ask if they mind if I fish below them and keep moving down. Don't let the crowds push you away from a run. Be a lowermainland fisherman means you have to learn to deal with sharing the river.
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If I'm gear fishing I will go through a run twice using 2 presentations from almost opposite ends of the spectrum. I do my best with an orange rubber egg with a small tuft of white wool. scented or unscented doesn't seem to matter
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I would like to suggest a steelhead course. I took one with Pacific and I think it would go a long way to confirming what you know is good and maybe identifying some things that are not so good.
Covering the water in a grid is a good general technique, however, there are portions of the grid at the head, gut and tail of a run that have a higher likelihood of holding a fish and those locations (just like salmon) will change depending on water conditions. Therefore, there are certain grids that you would want to cover more frequently than others.
Once you have fished head to tail and had no action, you may wish to consider a different presentation. I will often put three different baits through a run, if that does not work I conclude that either there are no fish there, they have been spooked or more likely my skillz are still less than l33t.
It's my understanding that Steels are fairly aggressive and if they have recently entered the river or moved due to fresh water they will typically strike at many different presentations. There is the obvious caveat about water conditions, because they will more likely hit a single Jensen egg under low and clear water than a 6 inch bright pink worm. In coloured water then anything big and bright will probably work. Saying that though, I have been on the river where everyone seemed to be fishing big gobs or roe or roe bags with little success, which prompted me to try a hammered silver blade which has then be successful in water that numerous anglers have already fished through.
So going back to your quandary about staying on a run or moving on, my suggestion would be to find a number of runs you like (because you have caught fish there before or seen others, etc.) then fish each run with a number of different presentations, such as roe, worm, blade or single egg to fit the conditions. If that does not yield results, then move on to your next run and repeat. However make sure to cover all bits of the water, particularly if it's coloured, even within a couple feet of the bank.
I think that standing on one spot (I thinks it's called fence posting, right?) can yield results, however changing presentations and locations once you have covered the water properly will give you better results.
Please note I am a novice steelheader like you, therefore take this advice with that proviso. However I feel confident in the above approach, which you may also find useful.
Hope this helps and good luck. May see you out there.
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Here's my approach to the vedder. Be super impatient lol! But seriously that was the key for me to finding fish more consistently over the past few years. Head out early season and cover as much water as you can, make a note of where you hook a fish, see a fish, see an angler catch a fish ect. Then as the season goes on visit them frequently! I had a rock last year which I saw another angler catch a fish at, I most likely would have not even fished it as it didn't look very fishy. However because I saw someone get a fish there I came back the next day and got one myself, this one rock gave me 6 fish last year, not every trip but consistently enough to keep coming back. I also had a piece of water about 150 yards long which I saw an angler hook a fish in about mid-late December. I came back a week later and pulled a fish out. My buddy and I had our best day steel heading ever last year in that stretch of river as well. Anyways to get consistent hookups be sure to note where you see fish holding throughout the year, they will sit there again. The only time I will fish through a run more then once is if I get a hit or know that a fish is in the run. Even the most fishy looking spots sometimes just don't hold fish. So covering lots of water is key, knowing the conditions which will dictate which spots will hold fish is as well but to really find the fish on a heavy pressure flow like the vedder is to watch others as most of the time they can do the work for you.
I hate it when people see me catch fish in my sweet spots... :o
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As someone has already noted, pick a few runs and fish it and learn the nuances of that run, where fish sit etc.
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Fish hard, NEVER give up, don't dought your self, it's hard to learn enything that way, pick one presentation to start and again fish it hard, everything else is a learning curve, the more you fish more you will learn and stealhead will be on your hook eventually.
That's where the break will happen you will want a nother one and you'll just learn faster :-)
Cheers
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Whew...thanks for all the tips guys! :) I need to hit the sack soon but will give all of them a more cafreful read over tomorrow and write a more detailed response.
Knnn, last winter I did take a steelheading course ??? It was 1/2 day clasroom 1/2 day on the river. The classroom content was AWESOME and I learned a lot about what works well in different water. Soon I'm going to review the thick handout we all got and my notes as there is a ton of good info. Unfortunately the course didn't dive too deep into what I really wanted to learn more of - strategies for hunting s/h. Overall it was a good course though and I'm glad I took it.
I think another stumbling block for me is there are a lot of choices of what to fish with. Jigs, blades, spoons, roe, roe sacks, prawns, rubber eggs, rubber worms, spin-n-glows, corkies, wool, combos of these, etc. For SALMON I know what I like to fish and what works for me through a lot of trial, error, and success. My #1 go to lure is a jig. I just love fishing them and do well on them for all salmon. However with s/h I haven't had much luck on anything, so I often struggle with what to tie on. I'll go through phases steelheading where I'll fish mainly jigs, and others where I'm trying everything in my vest and spend as much time farting with my gear as fishing. I don't doubt that at times the right lure/bait will make a difference, but I've heard from many guys that as long as what you're fishing is appropriate for the water, pretty much anything will elicit a strike if there is a fish there and it's presented properly.
Anyway....again appreciate the tips guys and I'll have more to say tomorrow.
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Use what u know from books and advice on this forum but in the end dont overthink it.Just keep your head down and fish any and all water and that is especially the case with the vedder as those fish can be anywhere due to the pressure they get.
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I agree although I disagree at the same time lol. Fishing the same spot over and over will teach you where fish hold in certain conditions in that spot. It's best to have a circuit of spots to fish, I prefer to fish a stretch that has multiple types of water ranging from big deep pools to wide runs and everything in between.
Yup that is exactly what I do. I almost always do a circuit and from time for to time I will go and fish other areas where I know there has been fish taken there. This has worked quite well for me.
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For me steelhead fishing has been the most productive after exploring a lot. I found 12 or so spots that i know hold fish, and varied in depth, speed and lenght. I then looked through the spots and noticed that on some days the water conditions were the same at certain runs, and completely different in others. From there i made 2 different circuits with a mixture of different runs. Most days i only do one circuit, however if i don't yield any fish and still have time i will go to select spots on the other circuit that i feel will hold fish.
Like others have said i have found certain rocks to cast to that almost always hold fish, as well as little pockets. Once you find these spots in your runs then you are golden.
I put a lot of miles on my boots over the years it just takes time and persistence. I usually only fish over a run once, unless i get a hit or i see a fish. I usually make a short cast out to around and then cast 3 feet further until i am across the river or as far as i see fit. Then move down five or so paces and repeat all the way down the run. If i go back to the top i switch out my colors and try again.
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Alright, just had a chance to read over all posts again. A lot of great info appreciate it all :) I like the idea brought up by Steely and Knnn of getting out early season and exploring, possibly finding some "new" water, getting ideas for "circuts" etc. I think I'll do a some of this soon so by the time the fishing starts to pick I'm not still out there exploring, but rather have a good selection of runs I like and circuts to fish depending on how much time I have on a given outing. Also like the idea of taking notes of where I see a fish caught, if I catch a s/h what I was using and what the conditions were like, etc.
I said before that as far as I can tell my tackle set up is pretty solid. If anyoen has any critiques of what I use please tell me:
Rod: I have a few I rotate through. My fav for s/h is a 10"6 12-20LB line rating Convergence. Nice and light and balances well with my lighter reels. I also have the same rod in 12-25LB line rating and an 11"6 Technium in 12-25. For casting/carring all day I prefer the 1st rod.
Reel: I have 3 baitcasters. My fav overall is the Currado 301E which I'll fish on the two 10"6 rods. Too light for the 11"6 though. Then I'll switch to the Cardiff 401.
Mainline: 15 or 17LB on the smaller reels. 20 on the Cardiff. I use Maxima UG or Pline CXX-Xtra Strong.
Leader: Usually 10, 12, or 15LB mono depending on water conditions.
Float: DNE 20-35g depending on how much weight is needed for the water conditions. Normally use the 25g. I don't really buy into clear floats and I've had a few crack while fishing then I gotta re-rig ???
Weight: Pencil lead 2-3 inches (1/4 gauge) threaded on mainline. I carry diff sizes of split shot for fine tuning if necessary, but generally just a piece of p/l. I used to use a plastic bead above the swivel knot but found sometimes it would break. Now I just put a dab of UV knot glue on the knot and IMO it protects the knot fine and will not crack and fall of like the bead.
Swivel: Roller swivel normally #10 (I think)
Leader length: Depends on conditions, but typically shorter than I would fish for salmon. With jigs usually quite short 12-18 inches. Same with roe/roe sacks. For rubber worms and blades I'll go a bit longer in the 24inch range as IMO such lures work better with a longer leader so they can flutter/wiggle more.
Hooks: Octupus style in #2 - 1/0 depending on water. I like the good ol' gammies in gunmetal.
Other: Most of the time I'm short floating trying to get the fish to look up and see what I'm throwing down. If feel my lead dragging on bottom I normally reel in right away and shorten up a bit. I don't snag up too often but sometimes it happens.
The only real variation I'll make to this set up is with pre-tied rigs like rubber worms where I want the leader length to stay the same, but if I cut and retie, then want to tie the worm back on, each time I lose a few inches of the worm leader, and soon it is too short! >:( I've tried re-threading them with a new leader but find most of the time the worm gets wrecked. A sollution to this I learned from one of the guys at Sea Run : Tie a duo-lock to the end of your worm leader and clip it to the end of your barrel swivel. If you want to change rigs, just unclip and put on a leader board. Next time you want to use it just clip back on!
With worms I like this method. However with pretty much everything else I just tie the leader right to the swivel, and if I re-tie that jig or whatever later I just cut a new piece of leader line. I prefer this as IMO the duo-lock is just one more thing for the fish to see and possibly spook from, and one more thing to possibly fail/break. Also I like having a fresh leader on with a fresh lure. However, with the threaded worm the leader getting shorter and shorter sucks, and this seems to solve the problem. I'll attach a pic in case my explaination doesn't make sense.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/lead_zps1330d144.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/lead_zps1330d144.jpg.html)
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With some 20 years behind my s/h fishing, I will just add a few pointers to help the newer s/h rods, hopefully to catch more steelhead this season:
1) If you can be there at first light, pick spots where the first nighters are going to sit. First nighters are those steelies which just enter the river the night before and they are the most aggressive ones. Try to fish from Peach and down all the way to the canal and pick different spots to start at different trips. Keep a keen eye at where the fish are mostly hooked at different water level and clarity. Gradually, you will form a mental map of where these first nighters are mostly hooked at a certain water level and clarity. This is an experience building thing and you need to spend the time to get this mental map (unless you go with someone who has already got some idea of this).
2) In the early morning, short float with roe at slow and shallow tail out of these 'hotter' spots. Stay back and start casting to near shore area first, then progressively work your way deeper.
3) When you are done with roe, then perhaps switch to metal. Some fish don't react to food but they (particularly the aggressive buck) will attack flashes due to territorial aggression instinct. I once dug up a 14lb buck after 4 groups of fishermen already fish a hot section with nothing and I noticed they all use the orangy stuff. So I pull out the metal and promptly hooked that buck. You can change up to smaller set up such as a single jensen egg on light leader, or a small spin and glow etc. This is just in case the water is low and clear and fish prefer smaller presentation.
4) If you fish towards noon or afternoon, try to fish above a long stretch of unfishable or unaccessable section, because fish staying in that section in the morning will be unhooked and unspooked in travelling through that section until they get to your spot in the afternoon.
5) Towards the end of day, focus on the top end of large runs/pools as fish are likely to move up there ready to charge up the shallow when light dims. You actually see this happening during the salmon season. Close to 4 to 5PM, load of fish will leave their pools/runs to move up. Likewise for steelhead.
6) Sometimes this top end can be shallow and fast, try to do top-down presentation, or even do true bottom bouncing (2-3 ft leader on 3-4" pencil lead and a small spin & glo) to slow it down for steelhead holding there to bite. You never know sometimes can be a few steelhead there. If a hot run has many fish hooked up during morning and tons of things thrown at the remain fish afterwards, fish can sometimes just move up to these top end section of the run to avoid the chaos at the lower section of the run. So once you see a run with hot hot action, you can focus on the top section later the day.
7) When the river floods and then a cold spell follows, the river can be loaded with steelies all over the river, not just the lower pools. This is the best time to go out and you may have multiple fish per day. If the main channel is still quite high, switch your attention to the side channels with slower flow. At high water, slow edges are a must to try. You can also pick pockets at mid river as most fish can make up there unhooked during the high water. Nothing beat pocket water pin-point accurate steelhead fishing. They are most aggressive and if you find them in a pocket in highly oxgenated water, you have them. Whether you can land them is another story, LOL.
8) Fish the tide if all else fails. You may want to try target newest arrivals at the lower canal. They bite anything given the right condition, especially those real early or late high tides. If you are lucky to hit a school, you can do really well. I have once heard a guy failing to hook anything during the day, and then as a last stop try lower canal before heading home and he hit jackpot with 7 steelies. He said after promptly hitting a few fish, he just tested out with different things in his steelhead arsenal and they bite them all. LOL.
There are many more steelhead pointers other more experienced steelheaders may add to mine. There are no one with all the answers. Lets share some points to help out the newbies or relative newbies without naming the actual spots. We all know how hard it can be for us during our first few years. Tight line and good luck to all and lets hope this is a great steelhead year just like the coho.
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i use snaps on all my leaders so i can swap out baits real quick.
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Thank you liketofish, great info there.
I like a snap swivel at the bottom of my main line and a plain swivel at the top of my leader for a quick change and have multiple ladder boards to store them all on. One board has short leaders, in heavier gauge line (15 lbs) for high coloured water, with a selection of baits, usually egg loops for roe, couple of No. 4 silver hamered colorados, and 6 inches pink worms (different colours). Then I also have a board with longer leaders, 20-24 inches for low and clear water with smaller blades, single jensen or mad river eggs ()sometimes with a touch of white wool and small washed out 4 inch worms in pale pink or pale purple all on 8-10 lbs leader (preferably Flouro). In total I think I carry about 20 pre-made leaders with different baits, but with duplicates of my favorites.
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Duolocks are a great thing to use. I have never felt that a fish passed up my offering due to the duolock being there. But i have noticed that I spend much less time with my numb hands trying to tie onto a swivel. I find im more willing to try two different rigs through a run when its easier to change up as well.
Two things i have done differently than you (mainly personal preference) but that i have found to be much more confident in:
I use seaguar fluorocarbon. Sometimes i'm sure it has no effect, but with clearwater conditions i feel like it is an edge. Diameter is much smaller and invisible under water. I find that it also seems to have a higher breaking strength. I used to use UG for all my leaders but now i use nothing but seaguar.
Split Shots. I think they allow you to control your bait more efficiently, with 4 split shots a couple inches apart, holding back on the float allows your bait to lift in a more gradual way, instead of stopping it like it does with pencil lead. I feel that it makes a curve from float to weight like a J instead of a straight shift like an L
Just my personal preferences, everyone has their own little things that happened to work once and they decided to stick with, ALL about confidence
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I forgot to add the best tip ever. Don't over complicate everything. If you are a well attuned salmon fisherman and have hooked into fish. you know how to trick them. just adapt to frozen fingers and the fishes lack of energy to move and like others have said, really learn the run you chose to fish. even if it takes a half hour of dicking around to get the right depth. but dont get too overwhelmed with the details. I have caught more steelhead when screwing up or " sleeping at the wheel" while drifting. so as long as your presentation is acceptable they are an easy fish to entice. but hard to find.
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IF you like fishing jigs use them. I almost exclusively use jigs for steelhead. Sometimes a little metal in there as well to spark aggression. For jigs i like using cherise, always a good choice, as well as the nightmare jig. I have also found that drilling out red plastic beads and slipping them on just after the jig head works well. 1 or two beads. my main colors are red, purple, blue, black, pink when tying jigs. Sometimes i even tie a little white on with a pink worm or grub on the hook. I have had great success with jigs though, marabou for slower water, and a mix of rabbit and marabou for faster. It seems to hold a wider more full presentation in faster water with rabbit.
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Find a good fishing buddy that knows what they are doing and watch how they cover water and what they use. A good steelhead fisherman can show you how long to spend in certain water in different times of the year. Learning to cover water quickly and efficiently is the key to success. If u don't have a buddy fish behind some experienced anglers. Often times u can analyze there fishing abilities and even see something they missed. Sometimes you can even learn where the good spots are by how quickly they fish and where they slow down. Bottom line is you need to get out there as much as possible no book is going to make you a complete angler you have to fish many different conditions and water types and make mistakes and learn from them...
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Bottom line is you need to get out there as much as possible no book is going to make you a complete angler you have to fish many different conditions and water types and make mistakes and learn from them...
x2 ... Just get out and enjoy a day...Tight line.
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Liketofish: Wow man thanks a LOT a ton of good info there. I'll be re-reading that again and making a few notes for sure. Really impressed with that posting - good on ya! :)
Just two quick questions I can think of. 1- What is a "top down" presentation? Of course I'm famaliar with short floating, etc., but not this one. 2- For fishing the tide, am I correct that one looks up high-tide in NWM, and then add 3hrs? Or is it 4? And does it matter where one fishes as far as timing goes? The spots/runs I'm famaliar with are between the Old Train Bridge and the KW bridge. I know a few spots below the Hwy1 bridge but rarely go that far down river as I have had better luck elsewhere.
Knnn: In that pic I took of my lead + duo-lock I just realized that I don't rig it up quite that way. I actually tie the duo-lock directly to my mainline (wide end on bottom) and then with the leaders have a barrel swivel at the top of each. I don't think it matters which one you have one top really. IMO duo-locks are stronger than snap swivels, and snap swivel + extra swivel on the leader = 2 barrel swivels on the set up which is unnecessary. But hey, if it works why change it? :)
Also I like your idea of organizing your leader boards by water type. I normally have all worms on one l/b ranging from 6" bright pink to 4" pale pink etc for clearer water. And the same for wool leaders, etc. I think I'll switch that up so each board is suited more to a paticular water type, then I can keep just the one board in my jacket pocket.
Coastrider: I love S/G flouro for still waters I mainly use their 4.8lb tippet for trout (some 5+ pounds) and have never had a fish snap me off. The stuff is so micro thin but strong like cable! However for the river I determined I don't like it. I went through a 25yd spool of the Blue Label in 12lb this year for coho and I'm positive I was snapped off way more often than if I was using 12lb UG or even 10lb. I was extra careful to tie good well lubed knots and still had many fish snap me off at the knot. Anyway for me I just have limited confidence in it for river fishing. Plus is crazy expensive! As for split shot I use them sometimes if I'm trying to be as stealthy as possible in low/clear water. However I find after a while they start to slide a bit and I have to keep farting around with them. I agree you liley get a better drift if holding back on your float but cost/benifet wise overall I presently prefer fishing p/l. Perhaps I need to learn a better way to crimp them on. I use the open gap in my leatherman pliers so the shot is being pinched all around instead of being squished like if you use needle nose pliers. Also I try to get the line in the middle of the shot, not the back of the opening. Still they slide on me! >:(
MoeJKU: Thanks for the jig tips! I'll be tying up some new jigs soon:)
Thanks to all others that offered tips as well :)
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Great info on this thread, guys! I have never fished for Steelhead but am looking forward to picking up a baitcasting reel this weekend and heading out soon to do some pre-season scouting of locations over the next few weeks. As SpawnSac said "another stumbling block for me is there are a lot of choices of what to fish with. Jigs, blades, spoons, roe, roe sacks, prawns, rubber eggs, rubber worms, spin-n-glows, corkies, wool, combos of these, etc." x2 on that one. While I'm sure it makes me look a little green, I usually pack a small tackle box with me as I explore new rivers as I don't know exactly what to throw on until I get there. Spend less time on the computer and more on the river, right!
I'll check the regs and the rest of this site to confirm, but off hand, does anyone know if the Vedder is the only river that Steelhead can be retained in the Lower Mainland? I know Capilano Steelhead are C&R only, but wondering where else they run in local systems. I'm not a strict meat fisherman, but love coming home with an edible trophy whenever I can.
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Great info on this thread, guys! I have never fished for Steelhead but am looking forward to picking up a baitcasting reel this weekend and heading out soon to do some pre-season scouting of locations over the next few weeks. As SpawnSac said "another stumbling block for me is there are a lot of choices of what to fish with. Jigs, blades, spoons, roe, roe sacks, prawns, rubber eggs, rubber worms, spin-n-glows, corkies, wool, combos of these, etc." x2 on that one. While I'm sure it makes me look a little green, I usually pack a small tackle box with me as I explore new rivers as I don't know exactly what to throw on until I get there. Spend less time on the computer and more on the river, right!
I'll check the regs and the rest of this site to confirm, but off hand, does anyone know if the Vedder is the only river that Steelhead can be retained in the Lower Mainland? I know Capilano Steelhead are C&R only, but wondering where else they run in local systems. I'm not a strict meat fisherman, but love coming home with an edible trophy whenever I can.
There are a few others for sure, but if you want a hatch, vedder is best bet. Most of the other rivers you will be seeing many many wild for every hatchery.
There is retention of hatchery steelhead in every lower mainland river unless stated otherwise... so it comes down to if the river supports hatchery fish or if they just get a few strays
"REGIONAL DAILy CATCh QUOTAS
(See tables for exceptions)
Trout/char: 4, but not more than
• 1over50cm(2hatcherysteelheadover
50 cm allowed)"
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I'm not a strict meat fisherman, but love coming home with an edible trophy whenever I can.
Ya, you might want to reset your expectations. I'm still looking for my first hatch on the Vedder after 5 seasons (wilds like me).
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Ya, you might want to reset your expectations. I'm still looking for my first hatch on the Vedder after 5 seasons (wilds like me).
Ha! Totally. I'm one of those overly optimistic types that rarely catches anything, but always after an adventure and a delicious meal. I doubt I'll be catching anything when I do go, but I'll be there trying!
Coastrider - I'm a fan of the Squamish river and am going to look into what steelhead opportunities may be there. Thinking what you said likely applies to that river about many wilds per hatch ratio.
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Coastrider - I'm a fan of the Squamish river and am going to look into what steelhead opportunities may be there. Thinking what you said likely applies to that river about many wilds per hatch ratio.
Yeah, Squamish isnt a river that you will be keeping fish out of!
Squamish river and all of its tributaries "Bait ban; release all steelhead"
As i said, there are maybe 4 or so rivers in the lower mainland where it is plausible to repeatedly catch/retain hatchery fish. Steelhead are certainly one of the fish that people target for the hunt and the chase rather than the meat!
I've caught hundreds of steelhead, and can count on two hands the amount of them that i could have retained. That being said, I tend to target more wild rivers
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Liketofish: Wow man thanks a LOT a ton of good info there. I'll be re-reading that again and making a few notes for sure. Really impressed with that posting - good on ya! :)
Just two quick questions I can think of. 1- What is a "top down" presentation? Of course I'm famaliar with short floating, etc., but not this one. 2- For fishing the tide, am I correct that one looks up high-tide in NWM, and then add 3hrs? Or is it 4? And does it matter where one fishes as far as timing goes? The spots/runs I'm famaliar with are between the Old Train Bridge and the KW bridge. I know a few spots below the Hwy1 bridge but rarely go that far down river as I have had better luck elsewhere.
Thanks. Top down presentation is a way to slow down your presentation. Most fishermen already doing it without knowing the name. Normally, in slower water, I try to be 90 degree with the float where it dead drifts over the most likely holding spot of the steely. This gives you the best angle for the hook to penetrate the jaw. With faster water, if you do this, the float will blow by the fishy spot very fast. So to slow it down, you stand higher up and drift the float down with a slanting angle pointing back to you, and you control the speed of line release to slow it down. You will have to set a deeper float to compensate this slanting angle. Sometimes, you can let the lead hit the bottom to slow down the fast drift. You can do this with or without the float. If you do this, I suggest you use a small spin & glo so it floats up above the lead at a level the steely can mouth it. This is also very effective to go after spring holding in fast runs, as they are lazy fish and you need to slow it down for them.
I won't name the exact location(s) for tide fishing, but safe to say anything in the canal is good to go. If you stand there and fish and you see the water rising (use some point of reference such as a log, or gravel beach etc), then you are fishing the rising tide. You will need to fish it enough to know the rhythm of this fishing. There are lots of hit and miss on this as not every tide brings in school of fish and you need to be lucky sometimes to be there at the right place and right time. Sometimes, at a certain spot there, you can actually see the water wave moving up the shallows and each wave is a travelling steelhead. Exciting to see them indeed whether you can hook them or not. Good luck.
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Ya, you might want to reset your expectations. I'm still looking for my first hatch on the Vedder after 5 seasons (wilds like me).
This is what steelhead can do to aspiring newer s/h rods. Even some of the authors of steelhead fishing books say they were skunked in the first few seasons, not to say getting wild ones. Of course if a new rod finds an experienced rod to fish together, that generally shorten the time to get their first steely. Once I even helped two friends who were new to s/h and had not been successful to get their first steely, by giving them detailed instruction to go to a super hot location in March for first nighter steelhead. But they would have to be there at first light. I told them I would join them later as I am a late bird. By the time I got there, they each had a fish before I arrived. Saying that, you still have to be lucky with steelheading. Even the best rods can get skunked repeatedly. This is just the nature of the beast of steelheading. You need to persist in chilly wind and rain of winter to pursue an illusive grey ghost which may not even grace your line in a season or even more for some (longest I heard is 7 years), and that is why most successful steelheaders are considered the toughest breed of hard-nose fishermen out there. So keep our noses hard guys. The frigid temperature will help to keep the nose hard (and red), LOL.
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Liketofish: Thanks for the clairification on the "top down" presentation. I get most of that and yes you're right I do fish this way at times I just didn't know it was called that. I find this method a bit tricky as I'm not quite sure if my offering is swinging up too high in the current or not. Wth a bit of trial and error I seem to be decent at it and do catch fish this way. My preferred method is dead drifting as I have a better sense of how deep I am. However I realize this method is often not suited to faster water.
Umm...also, I don't really get what you mean by "...you stand higher up and drift the float down with a slanting angle pointing back to you." Perhaps I'm over thinking it? What I think you mean is you are casting more downsteam that normal, as it's pretty hard to slow your float down if it is across from you. Hmmm...but I don't really get the "slanting angle" part. Sorry :o Could you please clairify? The rest makes total sense.
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Liketofish: Thanks for the clairification on the "top down" presentation. I get most of that and yes you're right I do fish this way at times I just didn't know it was called that. I find this method a bit tricky as I'm not quite sure if my offering is swinging up too high in the current or not. Wth a bit of trial and error I seem to be decent at it and do catch fish this way. My preferred method is dead drifting as I have a better sense of how deep I am. However I realize this method is often not suited to faster water.
Umm...also, I don't really get what you mean by "...you stand higher up and drift the float down with a slanting angle pointing back to you." Perhaps I'm over thinking it? What I think you mean is you are casting more downsteam that normal, as it's pretty hard to slow your float down if it is across from you. Hmmm...but I don't really get the "slanting angle" part. Sorry :o Could you please clairify? The rest makes total sense.
If you have tension on your line while drifting then your presentation underwater will drift faster than your float abovewater. Instead of being directly underneath your float, it will be slightly downstream resulting in a "slanting angle" of your leader from your presentation to the float.
Or at least that's what i'm understanding.
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone as well for the invaluable information. This will be my first steelhead season (on the fly) and I'm looking forward to hooking into one!
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Thank you for helping to explain it better for me, tburn. That is basically what I mean. And Spawn Sack, that is correct about the drifting the float downstream of you. So when you find a fishy lie in fast water, instead of standing right across from it, you move upstream, say 10 to 20 ft above the spot, then you cast downstream towards the spot, and as the float is drifting, you hold it a bit to slow down the drift which will cause the float to point back at you and the leader and float will be at a slanting angle instead of straight up. By controlling the release of the line on your spool, your presentation will slow down and may arch across the current slowly. You can do this repeatedly to make sure your presentation has covered the whole target area of your drift so that any steelhead holding in these fast water spots can have a chance to bite your slowed down bait or lure.
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Great advice on this thread.
I'd like to point out that luck plays a big part in the steelheading game - as in being in the right place at the right time.
If you didn't get a fish after a couple of terminal tackle changes (e.g. roe, followed by a colorado blade, followed by a plastic worm), chances are the fish is simply NOT THERE. Move on!
Edited to add: of course, the above assumes that you know what you are doing in terms of depth adjustment and adapting to speed of current. Basically, you want your hook with whatever goodies you are offering to be as close to the bottom as possible so it almost "hits the fish in the face" to elicit a strike. Through observing them in holding water in a few rivers with good visibility, I learned that winter steelhead are not too keen on chasing stuff around, but they will take just about anything that passes by closely enough.
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Thank you for helping to explain it better for me, tburn. That is basically what I mean. And Spawn Sack, that is correct about the drifting the float downstream of you. So when you find a fishy lie in fast water, instead of standing right across from it, you move upstream, say 10 to 20 ft above the spot, then you cast downstream towards the spot, and as the float is drifting, you hold it a bit to slow down the drift which will cause the float to point back at you and the leader and float will be at a slanting angle instead of straight up. By controlling the release of the line on your spool, your presentation will slow down and may arch across the current slowly. You can do this repeatedly to make sure your presentation has covered the whole target area of your drift so that any steelhead holding in these fast water spots can have a chance to bite your slowed down bait or lure.
Ok I got it now: Stand above the lie/spot. Cast out and let your float swing into where you want, hold back on spool to slow down presentation and hopefully put it in the face of an unsuspecting steehhead! :) This is one area I could improve on as i find it tricky to get the variables right of float depth, amount of lead, etc. I normally pass up this type of water when salmon fishing in favor of water I can get more of a dead drift. However I realize that to up my odds of getting into s/h I need to be skilled at fishing all types of water.
I thought of a couple other tips I have been givien on the water that may be of use to others:
1- Unless you MUST wade out -don't! S/H will often hold close to shore esp in murky water. If you wade out unnecessarily you will potentially scare away a fish close to shore that you could have caught. Plus the water is fricken cold so you are just going to get cold feet that much faster.
2- Along these lines try to keep stealthy when walking along shore. Don't be lumbering over rocks like a drunk rhino. Apparently such noises can be heard by nearby steelhead and spook them.
Not my tips just a couple things that were passed on to me by guys on the river.
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1- Unless you MUST wade out -don't! S/H will often hold close to shore esp in murky water. If you wade out unnecessarily you will potentially scare away a fish close to shore that you could have caught. Plus the water is fricken cold so you are just going to get cold feet that much faster.
2- Along these lines try to keep stealthy when walking along shore. Don't be lumbering over rocks like a drunk rhino. Apparently such noises can be heard by nearby steelhead and spook them.
Not my tips just a couple things that were passed on to me by guys on the river.
Good Call. I was at a popular spot last year. It was my first trip. When we arrived at the spot, there were 3 or 4 guys just wading out of the water. There was a fire that someone started on the bank, and they were coming out to warm up.
I head down to where they were fishing. In years past I have caught fish right where they were standing, so I waited a few minutes and baited up. Third cast - float down - fish on. I looked back to see some stunned faces who could not believe I caught a fish. Many veteran Steelheaders have told me to stand back a bit and cast no more than a rods length from the waters edge on your first cast.
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who the hell wades out when using gear while fishing for steelhead ??
stupidest thing you can do.
Even when I'm swinging flies I barely wade out unless its an area where you must wade out a bit to reach the sweet water but I will only do that after I fish some of the closer in water first. If you stand deeper than your ankles your out to deep because the fish can and possibly will just go behind you. In spots where its knee deep right near shore, don't wade out at all because they are probably right at your feet.
Some of the things I see people do out there just makes me shake my head. My younger brother while fishing the Vedder with me one year pulled not 1 but 2 large coho out from BEHIND everyone who had waded out, it was awesome ! ;D (and they came within 10-15mins of each other)
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who the hell wades out when using gear while fishing for steelhead ??
stupidest thing you can do.
Even when I'm swinging flies I barely wade out unless its an area where you must wade out a bit to reach the sweet water but I will only do that after I fish some of the closer in water first. If you stand deeper than your ankles your out to deep because the fish can and possibly will just go behind you. In spots where its knee deep right near shore, don't wade out at all because they are probably right at your feet.
Some of the things I see people do out there just makes me shake my head. My younger brother while fishing the Vedder with me one year pulled not 1 but 2 large coho out from BEHIND everyone who had waded out, it was awesome ! ;D (and they came within 10-15mins of each other)
Yeah...now I know it's stupid and counterproductive to catching s/h, but honestly I probably did that when I first started out steelheading becuase I didn't know any better. I think a lot of guys, myself included, start out steelheading alone and think one just fishes like you do for salmon, except with a few different offerings that we are told steelhead like (rubber worms, etc) For example, "I caught a lot of springs on that seam in the middle of this run...I better wade out a bit so I can cast that far and still be able to keep my line off the water." Not until someone told me or I read it in a one of the several books I bought on steelheading did I realize why I was getting funny looks in years past. I also notice some guys (ahem..ok me too in the start) will "fence post" on a single spot ALL day. Probably because they saw someone catch a s/h there or maybe caught one there themselves, so they figure best to stay right here as one is BOUND to end up there sooner or later. However most would agree this is not the best strategy for spending a day on the river.
I know it's tough to give other angler's unsolicited advice, but I know I really appreciated it when an experienced angler would stop for a minute, chat me up, and give me a few tips if they noticed I was doing something wrong. I was fishing a run in the canal this fall and catching a chum or coho almost every cast on an assortment of jigs. The guy above who wasn't catching a darn thing on whatever he was fishing walked down to see what I was using. I showed him my jig, he said "yup I have a couple like that" and he left and rigged up with a jig. After about 25 casts he hadn't hooked one and I could tell he was getting pissed as I was into fish after fish. I noticed he was fishing his jig all wrong, so I walked walked up and politely told him what to do to get the fish to take an interest in mr.jiggy. Next cast, chum. Cast after that, coho, and so on it went. Morale of the story is it really SUCKS to see people around you hammering fish, you're catching zip, and have no idea what you're doing wrong. It's a good feeling to get a tip from someone and it works and you start getting into fish, or you give a tip to someone having a crap day fishing and they get into fish :)
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If you have tension on your line while drifting then your presentation underwater will drift faster than your float abovewater. Instead of being directly underneath your float, it will be slightly downstream resulting in a "slanting angle" of your leader from your presentation to the float.
Or at least that's what i'm understanding.
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone as well for the invaluable information. This will be my first steelhead season (on the fly) and I'm looking forward to hooking into one!
Good advise, but a little misleading. Your bait is almost always downstream from your float, because the top of the water does not move as fast as below the surface due to wind resistance. The only way your bait will be right under the float is if you happen to have your bait in the section of the water column that matches the speed of the top, which is only a small area that varies with a few factors such as depth, wind, and structure... So chances of this actually happening is pretty low, especially over any distance(even 10 or 20 feet).
(http://www.earthonlinemedia.com/ipg/images/lithosphere/fluvial/velocity_variation.gif)
With a float depth too long, you run the risk of putting your weight right near the bottom where it will be in water slower than the top, giving you an angle going the wrong way.
Applying the brakes to your float will cause a greater angle though, that part is bang-on.
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interesting techniques being discussed. I 've utilized the technique mentioned (keeping tension on your line) this past salmon season and saw great results. clean hook ups but you really have to feel that little tug. as far as steelheading advice I have little to offer. thank you to all the previous posters and the original poster. by far one of the best s/h threads I have seen in a while!
I guess my one piece of advice would be:don't fall asleep at the reel...lol
tight lines to all. :)
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interesting techniques being discussed. I 've utilized the technique mentioned (keeping tension on your line) this past salmon season and saw great results. clean hook ups but you really have to feel that little tug. as far as steelheading advice I have little to offer. thank you to all the previous posters and the original poster. by far one of the best s/h threads I have seen in a while!
I guess my one piece of advice would be:don't fall asleep at the reel...lol
tight lines to all. :)
Haha I'll second the "don't be asleep at the reel" part! The few that I have managed to hook have been after a long day of casting, freezing cold, attention span tapering off, probably more focused on what some angler is doing, half watching my float, and then...where is my float?! Oh crap I have a fish on! It's hard to stay focused and confident when s/h fishing...but you just never know when that strike will come. So you MUST be on your float and be ready to hammer that hook set.