Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: swimmingwiththefishes on February 25, 2018, 09:54:54 PM
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Supposedly to protect Killerwhales but of course no restrictions on the parade of whale watching boats that follow the poor whales just Rec. fishing sector
https://anglerscoalition.com/emergency-sfab-meetings/
Letter can be sent to
Ashley.Dobko@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
By March 15th, 2018.
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I would encourage everyone to get involved in some sort of group. Not only for the wealth of knowledge you will be exposed to but also to help groups with activism and advocacy.
If you mainly fish the Fraser river I know there are some groups out their too.
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The area 29 closures have become an annual event due to depressed fish #s. Some non-angling groups proposed a closure for the entire south coast so this seems a decent compromise.
Other people on the board have broader opinions: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=41841.0
Closing angling is to increase available feed foe endangered SRKWs. Just how many adult chinook do whale watching boats catch every summer?
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An angling closure is just a short term solution.
A plan to manage the seal population in the Strait needs to be put in place. They do quite a number on out migrating smolts. A reduction of seal numbers will lead to a slight increase in marine survival which in theory should put more adult salmon back on the spawning beds. This would definitely benefit SRKW.
Fish farms aren't doing wild fish any favours. Someone mentioned having the farms fallowed as smolts out migrates to the pacific. Not sure how that would work but it sounds good. Or even just moving them off the migration route for Fraser River salmon.
Help the salmon and in turn you help the whales.
I'm sure the whale watching boats don't kill a single chinook. They make there living off the whales who eat chinooks that are depleted. Would be nice to see them implement a $7 conservation surcharge for each passenger, 100% of that could go towards chinooks.
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The area 29 closures have become an annual event due to depressed fish #s. Some non-angling groups proposed a closure for the entire south coast so this seems a decent compromise.
Other people on the board have broader opinions: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=41841.0
Closing angling is to increase available feed foe endangered SRKWs. Just how many adult chinook do whale watching boats catch every summer?
I think the theory is that vessel noise contributes significantly to decreasing orca feeding success on Chinook salmon as it disrupts their sonar capabilities.If you have ever seen the circus of boats that follows these animals you’d understand how the vessel presence could be major factor.
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I am well familiar with the 'circus' as I have been on the boats. Best I understand the boats have to keep a minimum distance from the whales plus they reduce rpm significantly when viewing feeding whales. The overall SRKW plan also calls for increased distance etc.
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A plan to manage the seal population in the Strait needs to be put in place. They do quite a number on out migrating smolts. A reduction of seal numbers will lead to a slight increase in marine survival which in theory should put more adult salmon back on the spawning beds. This would definitely benefit SRKW.
I attended a seminar at the boat show where they talked about how orcas and seals apparently may take roughly the same biomass of chinook, but since the orcas feed on adult salmon while seals eat younger fish, it may not be unreasonable to suggest that seals may account for literally 20X (or more) the # of fish as orcas. Sportfishing in comparison would probably be like a rounding error.
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they take 20x more of a much less signficant portion of the salmon biomass. As is important they have no historical data on what seals may have taken in the past (perhaps the % they take is historically normal) and little real idea if the high seal consumption is mostly a result of hatchery enhancement of chinook and other salmonid stocks.
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they take 20x more of a much less signficant portion of the salmon biomass. As is important they have no historical data on what seals may have taken in the past (perhaps the % they take is historically normal) and little real idea if the high seal consumption is mostly a result of hatchery enhancement of chinook and other salmonid stocks.
Curious ss too what makes it less significant?
Regardless, you are right; they have no historical reference to how much seal ate before. But there is historical evidence about the conditions of river mouths and estuaries; the rearing areas of juvenile salmon and key hunting ground of seals. In almost all cases these areas are devoid of substantial cover. The log jams are gone, eel grass and kelp wiped out. It is not difficult to extrapolate that seal success has gone up. Combine that with studies showing that southern populations of pinnipeds (California and Oregon) are actively moving into the southern straight and something must be done.
That being said, a cull won't address the cause, only a sympton. To save the orcas a whole new take on everything musr be done.
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Curious ss too what makes it less significant?
2% or less of outgoing smolts survive to return as adults.
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2% or less of outgoing smolts survive to return as adults.
Then let's make sure more smolts are making it out to the pacific by controlling the seal population in the Georgia strait. When we're dealing with rivers and tributaries that use to hold thousands of fish and now have a couple hundred every fish counts.
Yes I understand this isn't going to bring them all back but everything has an impact.
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Here is a recent citation where they estimated the amount of chinook salmon taken by pinnepeds, orcas, and fishing from 1975-2015.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8
They conclude that whales currently account for approx twice the biomass of chinook as seals, and total consumption by marine mammals has risen from ~6K to 15K over that time period. Depletion due to fishing harvest decreased over that time from ~16K to 10K tons, not quite enough to offset the increase from marine mammal predation. They speculate that this increase in competition from other marine mammals in recent years may now be a greater factor for the SRKWs than fishing harvest.
There's a lot in that paper, so correct me if I'm interpreting it inaccurately.
they take 20x more of a much less signficant portion of the salmon biomass. As is important they have no historical data on what seals may have taken in the past (perhaps the % they take is historically normal) and little real idea if the high seal consumption is mostly a result of hatchery enhancement of chinook and other salmonid stocks.
2% or less of outgoing smolts survive to return as adults.
Obviously total mortality rate is impacted by many sources, but the paper estimated that the vast majority of smolt predation by the marine mammals studied came from harbour seals which accounted for 6.5% of total smolt production. Still a small proportion of total mortality, but increased from 1.5% of total smolt production in 1975. Not to suggest that magically eliminating seal predation would result in proportional increase in survival, but certainly must be some factor.
The paper does note that increase of predation may be in part due to hatchery enhancement and that increase in hatchery production could have subsidized pinniped population increases.
A complex issue to be sure.
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n the end it does not matter what all the factors are in the end it’s just a simple supply vs demand.
There just simply are not enogh chinook for SRKW, predators, recs, trollers and First Nations.
The whales have to spend more energy to find food. By reducing traffic they hope to help them with that but if we’re honest with our ourselves we know there just is not the supply required.
It seems most agree were at the point that there is not much you can do to effect demand.
Even if we were to kill seals, stop trollers, strop the rec fishery the surplus would be handed over to the First Nations due to their Supreme Court legislative rights. I think we all agree the current polictic winds that’s never going to be challenged. This problem is also compounded by the lack of any sockeye fishery’s putting further pressure on Chinook stocks.
So how do we increase supply?
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http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2017/11/study_seal_and_sea_lions_stron.html
Some more reading material
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SRKW's are pretty smart animals! If we were only smart enough to train them to eat seals and sea lions like their transient cousins it would be a win - win!
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Then let's make sure more smolts are making it out to the pacific by controlling the seal population in the Georgia strait. When we're dealing with rivers and tributaries that use to hold thousands of fish and now have a couple hundred every fish counts.
Yes I understand this isn't going to bring them all back but everything has an impact.
Forgive me for pitting it this way but starting with the assumption that "controlling the seal population in the Georgia strait" will help SRKW and bring fish back is moving forward bum first.
Do we know what control methods may be effective? What the cost is? To what level the seal population had to be reduced? What the political and social costs may be? What unforseen effects there may be from reducing seal number since seals eat other fish that compete with or feed on salmon?
The answer to all these questions and many more is no. Seals are being scape goated by people who have no clue all the questions these very few leave unanswered.
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At least we would be moving forward.
We don't have the answers yet. Those questions need to be asked IMO.
Reopen the seal harvest. Manage it so that its sustainable.
I'm aware, as are many others, that this isn't the only issue facing chinooks. Then again maybe I have no clue.
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there is no evidence the seal bounty had any influence on salmon abundance. Salmon abundance generally declined during the 70 or so years of the bounty. The bounty system was not a 'harvest'. It was license for anyone on the water with a rifle to shoot seals indiscriminately. The carcasses were left where they were shot.
If you look at Atlantic Canada - a seal cull proved politically, economically and environmentally unfeasible over 30+ years of depressed cod stocks. Yet there is solid evidence cod stocks are finally recovering, without a cull.
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because it seems RalphH is the only one that remembers recent history, If the ENGO groups were out to get First Nations for killing seals, what do u think will happen if the white man tries to do it?
https://www.straight.com/article-156573/native-seal-kills-fraser-raise-questions
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I remember talking to first nations fishermen at the Barrowtown boat launch as a kid when I would see them putting a 30/30 in boat before they left.
I asked them what it was for and they said seal control and anyone else that gets too close to our nets!
they told me that once the seals would get a belly full of salmon they would get picky and just take a bite out of every fishes belly to find the females and eat the roe!
They could destroy a lot of fish in short order.
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because it seems RalphH is the only one that remembers recent history, If the ENGO groups were out to get First Nations for killing seals, what do u think will happen if the white man tries to do it?
How white are we talking?
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How white are we talking?
The ones not considered in the reconciliation process...Lots of shades of white
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I remember talking to first nations fishermen at the Barrowtown boat launch as a kid when I would see them putting a 30/30 in boat before they left.
I asked them what it was for and they said seal control and anyone else that gets too close to our nets!
they told me that once the seals would get a belly full of salmon they would get picky and just take a bite out of every fishes belly to find the females and eat the roe!
They could destroy a lot of fish in short order.
this is very common behaviour among predators when prey is abundant. If you think about it people are the same.
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Bang on RalphH,
I have seen it with Black Bears many times