Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on June 30, 2005, 12:24:06 PM
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The Fraser River Panel has completed the management plan for the 2005 sockeye and pink fisheries. Click here (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/file/050630.pdf) to view the news release.
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16 million pinks ! Let the fun begin.
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How many were in the run the last time?
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Only 16 million? I heard a couple years back or something there were close to 50 million pinks, I could be mistaken.
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50 million? A couple of years back, the fish were not even hatched yet. ;)
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Yeah, they just keep going out and coming back in ::)
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Fraser River Panel July 08 News Release (http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2005/NewsRelease02.pdf)
Next update: July 12
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Fraser River Panel July 12 News Release (http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2005/Announcement04.pdf)
Next update: July 15
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Fraser River Panel July 15 News Release (http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2005/Announcement05.pdf) (PDF file)
html version is available from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=80806&ID=recreational)
Next update: July 19
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Fraser River Panel July 19 News Release (http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2005/Announcement06.pdf) (PDF file)
html version is available from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=80932&ID=recreational)
Next update: July 22
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Wow 16 million pinks might be good time to buy that fly fishing rod and practice.
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thats my plan!!
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Fraser River Panel July 22 News Release (http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2005/Announcement07.pdf) (PDF file)
html version is available from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=81083&ID=recreational)
Next update: July 26
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Can we go 25 ------28-----29----can you give a 30. Just kidding around Rod! Thanks for keeping us posted.
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good job rod cant wait till the pinks come in ;D ;D
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Fraser River Panel July 26 News Release (http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2005/Announcement07.pdf) (PDF file)
html version is available from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=81142&ID=recreational)
Next update: July 29
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Hey we are almost at 30 ROD.
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For those who haven't read the news release, here's a summary plus some information retrieved from the SFAC.
The return number of early Stuart sockeye salmon has been upgraded to 185,000, much more promising than the 35,000 indicated by the test fisheries a few weeks ago. However, it is still much lower than the 258,000 originally forecasted.
The fish are clearly late, by about a week. On July 23rd, 26% of the fish netted by the test fisheries in Area 12 and 13 were early Stuart sockeye salmon. We expect those fish to pass through Mission around this weekend (takes about 5 to 6 days from Area 12 and 13). The rec sockeye fishery will most likely remain closed this weekend due to this.
Some noticeable abnormalities include the smaller size of the returning fish. This does not indicate the fish are not healthy, fat content analysis has been done and it indicated quite the opposite.
Because the fish have been smaller, the mesh size of the test nets was decreased. Once that was done, there have been a lot more fish caught. This may indicate that a lot more fish passed through the test areas earlier this month than first concluded because of the larger mesh size used (less fish caught as most small fish just went through).
Some good news, but still need to be very cautious. Please continue to fish selectively (barfishing is fantastic right now, chinook salmon are on the bite), and avoid catching any sockeye salmon (since 1 in 4 sockeye that you encounter would be a early Stuart fish). The FN sockeye fishery is scheduled to begin next week, most likely the rec fishery too. Lets wait for the 29th news release, play safe and have respect all fishers (rec and FN) when out fishing.
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July 29th, 2005
Recreational sockeye retention has been announced by DFO this afternoon.
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=81338&ID=recreational (http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=81338&ID=recreational)
The current status of the Early Summer and Summer Run components of the Fraser
River sockeye return provides for recreational sockeye retention opportunities
in most Southern B.C. marine waters. This fishery is a low impact fishery on
Fraser River sockeye stocks and addresses conservation objectives for stocks of
concern.
The next update regarding the status of the recreational sockeye retention
fishery will be Tuesday, August 2 following the next Fraser River Panel meeting.
RETENTION OPPORTUNITIES
Effective 0001 hrs Saturday, July 30 and until further notice, the daily limit
for sockeye in the waters described below is four (4) per day:
- West Coast of Vancouver Island (Areas 24 to 27, 121 and 123 to 127);
- Juan de Fuca Strait (Area 20);
- that portion of Johnstone Strait southerly of Lewis Point (Subareas 12-1 to
12-4 and Area 13);
- Strait of Georgia, except for that portion that lies easterly of a line from
Gower Point to Thrasher Rock Light to Salamanca Point on Galiano Island. (Areas
14, 15, 17 to 19 and Subareas 29-1, 29-2 and 29-5 only);
- Howe Sound, Burrard Inlet and Indian Arm (Area 28).
Barkley Sound (Area 23) remains open to sockeye retention with a daily limit of
4 per day.
In order to minimize impacts on Nimpkish River sockeye, it is anticipated that
retention of sockeye salmon in the waters of Johnstone Strait above Lewis Point
and in Queen Charlotte Strait (Areas 11, 111 and Subareas 12-5 to 12-48) will
not commence until approximately August 4, this date will be confirmed on
Tuesday, August 2.
FRASER RIVER, TIDAL, NON-TIDAL AND MOUTH
Sockeye retention is currently not permitted in Area 29, easterly of a line
from Gower Point to Thrasher Rock Light to Salamanca Point on Galiano Island
(Subareas 29-3, 29-4 and 29-6 to 29-17).
Sockeye retention is currently not permitted in the Fraser River tidal and non-
tidal waters.
An update on sockeye retention opportunities in the Fraser River and in those
portions of Area 29 that are currently closed will be provided on Tuesday,
August 2.
YEAR ROUND NON-RETENTION AREAS
Sockeye retention will not be permitted in Jervis Inlet, Malspina Strait and
Sechelt Inlet (Area 16) to protect returning Sakinaw Lake sockeye.
Sockeye retention is not permitted in Nitinat Lake (Area 22); and in Boundary
Bay (Subarea 29-8)
HEAD RECOVERY PROGRAM
Anglers are requested to release any sockeye that have the adipose fin
removed. These fish are hatchery raised sockeye and part of a recovery program
designed to increase the numbers of Cultus Lake Sockeye.
Sport anglers are reminded to participate in the voluntary Salmon Sport Head
Recovery program by labelling and submitting heads from adipose fin-clipped
chinook and coho salmon. Recovery of coded-wire tags from adipose fin-clipped
chinook and coho salmon provides critical information for coast wide stock
assessment. For program information and head depot locations contact the
voluntary Salmon Sport Head Recovery Program at 1-866-483-9994 or www.pac.dfo-
mpo.gc.ca/recfish.
Rockfish Protection areas that are currently in effect are closed to all fin
fishing. Descriptions of these closures can be found in Fishery Notice FN0341
dated June 8, 2005. Maps for these closures are located on the DFO web site at
the following address: www.pac.dfo-
mpo.gc.ca/recfish/Restricted_Areas/Rockfish_Maps_2004/default_e.htm
Variation Order No. 2005-343.
5. FOR MORE INFORMATION:
For more information contact the local DFO office in your area for updated
information as it becomes available.
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16 Million Pinks ! . How many were in the last run of them ? because I was at the chilliwack/veddar and you could practically walk across the river on there backs there were so many !
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Don't get the rods out yet, don't expect it to open in the Fraser at least until Thursday.
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Thanks for the heads up Rod.
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Looks like Socs won't be open until at least Sunday if they give their traditional two day warning of an opening.
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I overheard a guy say that his brother works for DFO and that it will open on the 6th.
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That's odd ... :-\ ... a guy at work said his cousin works for DFO and it's on the QT within the department that they're not going to open it this year because of feared political backlashes? Whatever that means. ???
I think I'll check what my horoscope says. :P
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Early summer and summer run numbers are still poor right now. There will be no openings for recreational anglers til at least Saturday above Mission.
Fraser River Panel August 2 News Release (http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2005/Announcement10.pdf) (PDF file)
html version is available from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=81434&ID=recreational)
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it all sounds like b.s to me
but i quess if this keeps up
i'll just start to take my fish illegally and call it
MY RIGHT
sorry ernie i'll do it better than you
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Fraser River Panel August 5 News Release (http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2005/Announcement11.pdf) (PDF file)
html version is available from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=81574&ID=recreational)
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obviously, we, as recreational anglers, are nothing in this highly politicized Sockeye fishery and everybody can wipe their feet on us. I don't understand this probability counting and measuring water survival temperatures (like they are trying to make the impression they do care about these Sockeyes) and allowing FN to clean up the river at the excelerated rate on the other hand. >:( >:( >:(
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Whats going on with the sockeye still not open? im gona die waiting on them i swear.
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Recreational
Sockeye retention remains closed in the Fraser River. Opportunities for the commencement of Fraser River sockeye retention will be reviewed and an update will be provided on Monday August 8.
I think that's so that they can make sure they aren't dealing with conflicting info regarding this injunction I bet, since if DFO were to give the go ahead then I think the injuction would have to be filed in Federal Court, since it would be to stop DFO allowing rec fishers on the river. We would have conflicting federal and provincial statements.
:(
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Decision points for DFO to provide a recreational sockeye opening are:
- Early summers at less than 10% abundance in the river or a huge bump in Early Summers to get them to the 75-p level (391 000)
- A reasonable expectation of full FSC fisheries
- Some commercial TAC identified on Summers
- Expectation of an achievement of the Early Summer escapement goal
The Early Summer run size was downgraded to 250 000. At this run size there is no TAC for commercial or recreational fisheries. Age composition data suggests that the age 4 component of the run is considerable weaker than the 80% age 4 fish that were expected preseason.
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If the panel deems the fish run far below expectation, what the heck they are doing to allow the natives fish all they want, with potent drift nets? Just to what extent DFO will go to appease the natives? If DFO rulings are to be respected at all, they have to be fair and reasonable. What a shame! They forget their first mandate of fish conservation above native food(whatever???) fishery.
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If the panel deems the fish run far below expectation, what the heck they are doing to allow the natives fish all they want, with potent drift nets? Just to what extent DFO will go to appease the natives? If DFO rulings are to be respected at all, they have to be fair and reasonable. What a shame! They forget their first mandate of fish conservation above native food(whatever???) fishery.
That's the $1,000,000 question
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If a singer or a rock band is 'no show' for a concert, the ticket purchasers are entitled to a refund. If the DFO allows the natives to fish all they want but denies the sockeye fishermen the right to harvest their insignificant share, then all sockeye fishermen should ask for a refund for their license fees, period. You bet a lot of license sales were based on the opening of a sockeye fishery. Next year, don't buy your license (if you are a sockeye junkie only) until DFO announces an opening. They will not listen to our voice, but perhaps to our dollars. If there is not enough fish, then just shut down all sectors for conservation, not the unfair fishery they are dealing to us now. They are allowing the Cheams to do what they want, including illegal drift netting and illegal fish sales, while we are shut out and we paid for their salary, not the natives. Just my 2 cents.
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no like to fish
next year fraser river basin will be classified waters
with a caveat
payment of daily fee to earnie's beer fund for entry
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It will be a cold day in hell when earnie gets a cent from me.....
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DFO should be happy we as the recreational fishermen are very patient. We could just band together and have our own one day opener i doubt there is much they could do. I mean the DFO dosent flex its muscles around the river as it is. That being said i wouldnt want it to come to that but something has to be done to send a message. Letting the natives fish and probably kill the last run of the SO preciouss stuart sockey is just insane what is going on around here.
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FOC doesn't care about the salmon anymore. They are too busy trying to find more pristine areas to start new fish farms. My firend's father quit the DFO about a decade ago and she said her father was fed up with the new policies mandated by the Feds. I, and many of my friends, believe the new FOC is here to make sure the natives wipe out the salmon stocks so the natives will have no one to blame but themselves when there isn't any more salmon to catch. In the meantime the salmon farms will raise all the fish we'll need, whether we want them or not. When the Fraser is not worth fighting over the Feds will move in to dam the river like the Columbia to sell the Yanks all the power they need. The reality is that it's too expensive to keep B.C. "natural", and we'll have to sell energy to finance our growth as well as to pay for Medicare when over half the population in B.C. will be over 65 years old (in the not distant future). From now on everything the Feds and the Campbell and Klein governments do is to cater to what the Yanks want. Wasn't Terasen recently sold off to the Americans? I read today all the oil giants in the States are looking to takeover the entire oil tar sands in Alberta. Apparently there is more oil in the sands than there are in all of Saudi Arabia. NAFTA allows the Yanks ship as much oil and gas as they need whether there is enough for our own use. What the Yanks want the Yanks get. They look at economic scenarios 25 years down the road, whereas we only look to tomorrow. Sorry to change topic, but sockeye fishing on the Fraser is already on its way leg.
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Just another thought while this hyjack is in progress . Yes the Yanks want power but if you read the fine
print in the teresan deal , there was some water ways also mentioned in the deal .
Its really the water they are after and once they get ther hands on our water ::) look out . :-X
Very much agree with your theory on once the fish are gone it will be clear sailing for damming for power, and this
government are just the ( greedy ) ones to pull it off . :(
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Here is the latest from the panel.
Subject: FR Panel update - 7-Aug 2005
Hi, all!
Just a quick update from today's FR Panel call. Little good news, I'm
afraid. The one big A20 GN test fishery day of 1402 soxi was followed by a
catch of 148 and 144. PSC staff indicated that the test fishery catches are
not building the way that they were expecting and that right now, when
looking at Mission escapement numbers through to date as well as projected
through to 12-Aug, the Summer run is either well below the 75p level of 7.8M
fish OR much later than 8 days late.
Early Summer escapement was also lower than expected, on average, the run
size models are coming up with the same numbers as on Friday (in the
150K-250K range) and the PSC does not have enough information to move off of
the 250K number. However, they did mention that if the escapement into the
river continues at a slow pace, they may have to downgrade the run size.
Weaver fish have been ID'd in both approaches. When asked, PSC staff said
that they were not surprised at the presence of Late run fish in the
approaches, as Summer run fish have been seen for about a week, now. The
worrisome thing is the lack of Summer abundance which would normally swamp
out the ability to detect Late run fish.
PSC staff will have a Harrison sockeye run size estimate on Tuesday as well
as a very preliminary Summer run run size estimate.
On the good news side, the fish which have been seen by the BC Interior
stock assessment staff have been in good shape.
More (hopefully better) news on Tuesday.
-amh
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So, no opening until Thursday at the earliest, if that's the case >:(
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that sucks!! it better open soon because my 20 foot leaders are getting dusty!!! :D
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Oh well, I guess we can spend more time with the family and finish projects around the house??? :'( :'(
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Latest Notice (Monday):
The Fraser River Panel met yesterday, August 7 to review assessment data on
Fraser River sockeye salmon. The abundance of returning Fraser sockeye
continues to be lower than expected for this time period. Based upon pre-
season expectations the maximum daily Fraser River sockeye migration was
forecasted to occur through the marine assessment areas around August 8th.
However, the daily migrations of Fraser River sockeye continue to track far
below expectations through both Juan de Fuca and Johnstone Straits. It is
possible that the timing of the Summer run stock group is late, however, the
apparent weakness to date is causing concern.
Migration conditions for sockeye in the Fraser River continue to be favourable.
Discharge levels in the Fraser River (at Hope) measured August 4 was 3,700 cms
(11 percent below average) and water temperatures at Qualark Creek 17.7 degrees
celsius (near the long term average). Both discharge levels and water
temperature are forecasted to be at or near average levels for the next six to
seven days.
First Nations
It is expected that First Nations targeting Fraser River sockeye fisheries in
Area 29 and the Fraser River will continue this week, an update will be
provided on Tuesday August 9 following the next Fraser River Panel meeting.
Recreational
Sockeye retention remains closed in the Fraser River. Opportunities for the
commencement of Fraser River sockeye retention will be reviewed and an update
will be provided on Tuesday August 9.
Commercial
Remains closed. Opportunities for the commencement of any assessment or
commercial fisheries will be reviewed and an update will be provided on Tuesday
August 9.
The next update will be Tuesday PM, August 9 following the next Fraser River
Panel meeting.
For more information contact Paul Ryall at (604)666-0115.
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:'( :'( thanx fishin freak for this update. keep us posted ;D
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WHAT THE HELL! this is getting annoying still no opener? does dfo hate the common fishermen or something.
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Do you guys even read the entire notice? Or just go straight down to this line "Sockeye retention remains closed in the Fraser River."?
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Do you guys even read the entire notice? Or just go straight down to this line "Sockeye retention remains closed in the Fraser River."?
Why would we? It's all about "Me, Me, Me" ;D ;D I admit, the first thing I do is it CTRL-F and type in "Recreational"
Then, I go and read the rest to figure out why.
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Chill out gang...is flossing a sockeye really that thrilling that people are just chomping at the bit to ge out there?!?
The early stuarts have passed (conservation issue there no longer a question)...let the summer runs build up, right now, there isnt a conservation issue with them so until I see some good numbers in the rivers, I really dont want to run out to some silly bar and stand there in the baking sun for 4 hours trying to floss a couple socks. In a weeks time hopefully the fish will be there, FN will have their quota met and we can have at 'er without different user groups clashing ie Cheam injunction etc.
If the fish arent in within a week or so then we should graciously put our bouncing betties away for a year because at that point we may have a real concervation problem.
So just chill and have some faith that DFO knows what they are doing...kind of. ;)
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:o gee gooey you kind of make sense ;). whats another week anyways like you said let the runs build up and then we will get our chance. and if not think of the money you all will save in bouncin bettys this year ;D ;D ;D
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Doh! Damned logic again ;)
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Hopefully the Thompson Cohos will be late as well ::)
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that's one of the things no one has mentioned till now. In a typical year we would be shut down for sox by the around the 21st of August due to arriving thompson coho.
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We've all been sitting quietly with our fingers crossed hoping it's not going to happen, but if it does I understand that I will not be able to fish sox this year. Such is nature.
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EVERYTHING has been late...I dont think thompson coho will be early or on time when everything else has been so late.
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one question.. what causees the salmon to be late?? is the higher ocean temps. causing them to move and feed further north. then by the time they make there way down to us does it take longer to make the trip?? just curious,
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Fishery Notice
Category(s): ABORIGINAL - General Information
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll
RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Subject: FN0558-Salmon: Fraser River Sockeye Update - August 9 - Areas 11 to 29
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The Fraser River Panel met today, August 9th to review assessment data on
Fraser River sockeye salmon. The abundance of returning Summer Run Fraser
sockeye continues to be substantially lower than expected for this time period.
Based upon pre-season expectations the maximum daily Fraser River Summer run
sockeye migration was forecasted to occur through the marine assessment areas
around August 8th. However, the daily migrations of Fraser River sockeye
continue to track far below expectations through both Juan de Fuca and
Johnstone Straits. It is possible that the timing of the Summer run stock
group is late, however, the continued apparent weakness to Summer Run to date
is causing concern that the return will be substantially less than forecast
levels.
Migration conditions for sockeye in the Fraser River continue to be favourable.
Discharge levels in the Fraser River (at Hope) measured August 9th is 3,200
cms, which is slightly below average levels of 3,400 cms. A water temperature
at Qualark Creek is 18.6 degrees Celsius and is forecasted to increase to about
19.3 degrees Celsius by Aug. 11 before dropping down to 18.6 degrees Celsius by
Aug. 18.
First Nations
It is expected that First Nations targeting Fraser River sockeye fisheries in
Area 29 and the Fraser River will continue this week, an update will be
provided on Friday August 12th following the next Fraser River Panel meeting.
Recreational
Sockeye retention remains closed in the Fraser River. Opportunities for the
commencement of Fraser River sockeye retention will be reviewed and an update
will be provided on Friday August 12th.
Commercial
Remains closed. Opportunities for the commencement of any assessment or
commercial fisheries will be reviewed and an update will be provided on Friday
August 12th.
The next update will be Friday PM, August 12th following the next Fraser River
Panel meeting.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Contact Paul Ryall at (604)666-0115
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looks like forecasting of sockeye returns is getting as popular as weather forecasting. They can't predict the weather here in one day ahead, so we should not blame DFO for not keeping up with their predictions from June and, I think, they should stop predicting so less people get confused/disappointed.
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Just received an email with some numbers etc after tonight's sockeye conference call.
The fishery is looking so bad that even some test fisheries have been curtailed.
At present 3 models were put forward and only one model would allow us to fish at anytime on summers this year. That model would see 7.9 million fish but the likely number is estimated to be around 2 to 2.5 million the way it now looks. DFO needs a 4.5 million run size of summers for us to fish.
The next conference call is scheduled for Tuesday night so you will not be fishing on Sockeye or Pinks until at least then.
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oh well I guess it sounds like put the fraser gear away and start slowly checking the veddar gear. The pinks will be in in a couple of weeks(hopefully) and the coho soon after.
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are any FN fisheries being curtailed or is it business as usual for the cheam.
maybe it's time to excercise my aboriginal right to food fish, but different from the cheam, i'd be happy with 10 sox in the freezer rather than the thousands the 300 cheam members will be getting.... er sorry.... taking.
that statement is meant rhetorically and no, i'm not about to poach me up 10 sockeye although I do have a constitutional right to food fish I'm not "special" like the cheam.
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So i thought this was rather interesting after I read it in the email tonight, from Bill Otway:
I checked with the test fish data for yesterday and see that in Area 12 it is holding at 1,000 per day, well above where it has been for at least 3 days now. We need to understand that this represents in the order of 200,000 fish per day through that area. Also I was pleased to see a very big catch of Pink in that test fishery as well, in excess of 5000 fish.
We also need to understand that a good part of our problem may very well, and in my view does, stem from the fact that DFO has been overloading the spawning grounds for several years now, including the brood year for this run. This has meant very small smolts and of course this means they are less able to cope, reach a smaller size and less of them than normal survive.
DFO managers and particularly the scientists would not accept nor will they accept the truth of Cyclic Dominance which means that one year in 4 is a large run and each other year is a lesser number. This allows the food source in the nursery lakes to rebuild to support the large run when it comes. When you overload the grounds you overload the nursery and get very poor survival.
DFO is still trying to sell that fact that they need an escapement of 3 million for the Summer Runs and that is hogwash. Look at the historic escapement and the historic returns and an escapement of 1 million or 1.5 million would more than suffice.
We need to be on top of this as their experiments are not only failing but costing the public and the industry millions of dollars and doing nothing for the fish.
Bill Otway
FN openings info for this week has been posted here (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=7519.0).
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Something is up with the dfo counting system this year because I see soxs being caught left and right when last year it was hard to touch one. There in there in good numbers now, no doubt about it and the one's i've hooked seem to be in excellent condition.
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Just a reminder that during the sockeye closure, anglers are requested by DFO to employ selective fishing methods to avoid or reduce sockeye by-catches. Continuing catch and release sockeye salmon would only further damage the sockeye salmon that we try to protect.
Just in case there is an opening during the rest of this season, here's a document regarding Fraser River sockeye radio-tagging study 2005 information (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/file/050812.doc).
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thanx rod for the info .oh and a great letter chris i will be writing mine and sending it along also. we need all to write letters so something can be done. ;D
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It looks to me that all these test fisheries catches are way more than all the rec fishers would pull off the river in 2 weeks openning. Should we do some math here? ::)