Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: 604benny1980 on December 22, 2013, 12:47:12 PM
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Hello, can anyone tell me What are some good lures etc to use on the vedder river in the winter months? I'm thinking of targeting trout but would love to get on to a steely too! Any recommended lures or spoons etc would be great. Thanks in advance
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I would just use colorado spinners. You can fish em under a float or just by casting and retrieving them. They are cheap, and cheaper if you make them yourself. Carry some in gold and silver, small medium and large. Fish bigger ones in more colored water, and smaller ones in lower and clearer water. I'm sure others will chime in about jigs and spoons as well, but I like colorados. Cheap and simple :o
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Thx for the tip. I will get me a selection of them. Much appreciated:)
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trophytackle.ca
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Hello, can anyone tell me What are some good lures etc to use on the vedder river in the winter months? I'm thinking of targeting trout but would love to get on to a steely too! Any recommended lures or spoons etc would be great. Thanks in advance
Make sure you purchase a steelhead stamp before you fish at the vedder during steelhead season.
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Make sure you purchase a steelhead stamp before you fish at the vedder during steelhead season.
You don't need to. If you are out there with a small spinning rod, some small lures and the intention to catch trout, you don't NEED a steelhead license. If you are out there with massive spoons, and a medium to heavy rated spin rod with braid line, then I would recommend getting a steelhead stamp as it will be hard to prove to a CO you are targeting trout.
trophytackle.ca
AGREED!
R&B spoons are awesome for steelhead in 2/5 size. The trophy tackle spinners have done very well for me for trout, not so much for steel, but I haven't given them much of a go (firm believer in spoons for steel).
Others I would add to the list are little cleos (cutties and bows both love them, along with steelhead), and rvrfshr also in 2/5 size. If you're looking to pick up a quick spoon in a pinch the Gibbs koho spoons in the 45 size in illusion or orange scale are money. Also ironheads in 2/5 but they are $$$$.
Please, if you buy the koho or ironhead spoons, make sure you change the hooks. They are way oversized and WILL kill/maim fish. The R&B and RVRFSHR spoons are pretty decent as far as hooks go. I still prefer to use my trailing hook method though, especially if fishing for trout (will also help with hook ups with trout because of the small mouths).
The only non-steelhead you will run into on the Vedder for the most part are bullies. I tend to run into 1-7 per day most days, rarely get skunked with them, especially early season or late (spring) season. At times I will pick up rather large rainbows, and of course, you'll hit steel as by-catch.
Good luck!
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Really appreciate the tips guys! Merry Christmas!
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Every day, the trailing hook sounds pretty cool. How do you rig this up?
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You don't need to. If you are out there with a small spinning rod, some small lures and the intention to catch trout, you don't NEED a steelhead license. If you are out there with massive spoons, and a medium to heavy rated spin rod with braid line, then I would recommend getting a steelhead stamp as it will be hard to prove to a CO you are targeting trout.
According to Freds :
"We are expecting heavy rain over the next few days! This will melt most of the snow and bring the river up a considerable amount. Good early season reports from steelhead anglers should make for an interesting boxing day derby. Remember to sign up for the Wally Hall Jr Memorial Steelhead Derby, and to get your steelhead conservation tag. You MUST have your steelhead tag if you want to fish this river after December 1st!"
Found here :
http://www.fredscustomtackle.com/Fishing-Report_ep_77.html
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604benny1980: as others have already said spoons are a good for trout and steelhead. I've never caught a s/h on Blue Fox spinners or similar spinners but apparently they can be effective. I think #4 or #5 B/F spinners would be suited to s/h fishing. Jigs under a float are also good. Check out the books "Jig fishing for salmon and steelhead" by Dave Vedder and "Spoon Fishing for salmon and steelhead" by...forget the author...just search on amazon. Both are cheap paperbacks and good reads.
Everyday: As fishawn asked, could you please clairify what you mean by this "trailing hook set up"? I know you are big on sickle hooks. All I normally do is take the stock crap hook and remove it off the split ring, throw in trash. Take open eye siwash hook and close over the split ring. Done. I've experimented with Matzuo's o/e siwash hooks this year on spoons and spinners and was happy with them. Also like Mustad o/e siwash and good old gammy o/e siwash.
Also, what type of set up (rod, reel, line, etc) do you use when chucking spoons and spinners for salmon and s/h? I've experimented with a few: straight mono (12lb Berkley XL) on a spinning set up, and braid on a spinning setup. I prefer the feel of the braid (20lb Suffix 832) however, I don't like the braid close to the lure (IMO may spook fish). Currently what I do for winter fishing is thread a bead through the braid big enough that it won't go through the top eyelet of the rod, then tie (palomar) a barrel swivel to the braid. From here I'll run a mono leader 3 feet or so to a duo-lock. I take the split ring and swivel out of the top (tie in end) of the spoon and just snap my spoon in/out with the duo-lock. Super quick to change spoons, no cutting/re-tying.
In super clear water (coho fishing mainly) I experimented with running a longer mono leader 9 feet or so off the braid (connected by mofified albright) then on the end of the mono a barrel swivel connected to a duo-lock (basically same as a snap swivel but IMO stronger). Then I just snap the spoons on/off like above. This worked well, no issues with the M/I knot to the mono, however I don't really like the knot ticking through the guides with every cast. I went back to straight mono on the spool under these water conditions, but I can definitley notice better feel with the braid.
One last idea I have yet to try: using a small baitcaster reel/rod instead of a spinning reel. Apparently one can let out short bursts of line as the spoon is swinging to keep it closer to the bottom/strike zone, whereas with a spinning reel this is harder to do...I normally just flip the bail after the cast.
I've never really given spoon fishing much of an effort for s/h as I need to carry an extra rod, or just head out with the spoon/spinner gear and leave the float rod at home. Tried casting metal on my float rods and found the lures didnt load the rod enough and I got crap distance and many backlashes from trying to cast so hard. I have an 8"6 fast action Clairus and a Calcutta 201B that I think would be a good set up to try with spoons for s/h. Any tips you would be able to offer as far as hooks, rigging (swivel, knots, duo-locks etc), line, etc would be awesome :)
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According to Freds :
"We are expecting heavy rain over the next few days! This will melt most of the snow and bring the river up a considerable amount. Good early season reports from steelhead anglers should make for an interesting boxing day derby. Remember to sign up for the Wally Hall Jr Memorial Steelhead Derby, and to get your steelhead conservation tag. You MUST have your steelhead tag if you want to fish this river after December 1st!"
Found here :
http://www.fredscustomtackle.com/Fishing-Report_ep_77.html
Fred's is correct, but this posting is targeting steelhead anglers. As Everyday said if you are fishing a trout set up and could convince a CO that you are not targeting steelhead, then you would be fine without a steelhead tag. Since it sounds like you will be targeting trout mainly but s/h too, I WOULD buy the s/h tag, then if you hook into a hatchery s/h you can keep it. Personally I would buy the tag regardless as the $ goes towards conservation, and you would not have the potential problem of not having the tag and trying to convince a CO that you are only trout fishing.
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Everyday: As fishawn asked, could you please clairify what you mean by this "trailing hook set up"? I know you are big on sickle hooks.
(https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1009826_10151491137941612_1494509543_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/542205_10151528507006612_911608116_n.jpg)
When I first started this set up (maybe it was done somewhere before me?), I always TIED the braid to the hook. I like using my fly tying stuff (all you need is a vice, bobbin, thread hook and some braid) to create a loop on the hook. Tie the braid end pieces down to the hook shank and form a loop at least 2 inches long above the hook. Then you use the bottom hole in the spoon and create a loop to loop connection.
One of my buddies didn't want to take time tying up hooks, so he just uses a piece of braid, runs it through the eye of the hook and does something like an albright knot to tie the braid to itself. It works, I just don't like how it rides in the water. I also feel like my way of rigging is stronger.
Everyday:
Any tips you would be able to offer as far as hooks, rigging (swivel, knots, duo-locks etc), line, etc would be awesome :)
I tend to run lighter set ups for spinning for all fish (when I say all, coho, steelhead, chum). I like to run rods rated 6-10 or 8-12. I like soft rods (fast action) so I can feel a good kick on the swing. I always run braid, 15 pound. The white floating stuff is great cause you can actually mend it and control your swing better, also super visible from above water, and not so much from under water.
Like you, I did much experimenting, actually even on the L2F ponds when I worked there the past 2 summers. I found the trout responded much better to flouro when compared to mono, and better to mono vs braid. These fish were as dumb as the get and I still couldn't get one with braid straight to the spoon, they just wouldn't touch it.
At this point I run braid and a modified perfection loop or albright knot depending on how I feel to 10 feet of 15 pound flouro. The knots sliding through the guides does nothing, in fact, it doesn't even affect casting distance in the slightest from what I have found. Duo locks are great for what you have described - keep using em!
Never found a baitcaster to be an advantage when tossing metal. I prefer spinning reels. I just adjust spoon size or how far upriver I cast accordingly to current to keep the spoon down. I always try to let my spoon roll bottom two or three times before I start my swing. I feel letting out bursts of line totally goes against the covering water aspect of spoons. Do you see many guys spey or fly fishing let out bursts of line or taking steps down on their swing? A spoon is heavier, so realistically, why would you need to let line out. I have also watched steelhead in -10C from a vantage point rise up to spoons 2 ft under the surface in 10+ feet of water, and sometimes chase for 50+ feet. Just because it's cold doesn't mean that they won't move.
Leave the float rods at home if you want to get good at metal. it's a steep learning curve (swinging spoons) and you won't get anywhere unless you put a bunch of trips in to get a good feel for it. IMO it's the most effective way of covering water, and in the past 3 years of sight fishing island rivers, only a handful of fish I have seen didn't take a swipe... the other couple hundred (summers or winters) tried to commit suicide on it. It catches fish and is very under utilized.
Good luck!
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Not trying to de-rail here. Why not just buy the steelhead tag... I mean it's going to a good cause and it's not going to kill you. Think of it as your yearly donation. Buy the tag pinch your barbs and you won't have to convince ANYTHING to a CO!
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Everyday, thanks a lot for that, very helpful as always. I can't get those pics to load on my stupid work computer so I'll try later from home. The way you described it makes sense. I'm just wondering...what advantage does it offer over a regular open eye siwash on a split ring? I know with the stinger hook on intruders it gets the hook farther back to prevent short strikes, and makes it harder for the fish to spit the hook using the shank as leverage.
Also thanks for the tips on rods + lines etc. How long of a leader are you running off your braid? In colored water I like my set up of a 3ish foot leader off the barrel swivel and the bead above the swivel on the braid so I don't accidently reel the swivel through the guides. However in clear water I wasn't having much luck and switched to rig B which is a long leader (9ish feet) connecetd to the braid with a m.albright then barrel swivel and duo-lock on the end of the leader to the spoon. I seemed to do better under such water conditions, esp with coho, with this set up. I have heard that under (clear) water braid looks like cable to fish and spooks them. In colored water rig A works fine but in clear water I don't think the 3ish foot leader was enough and they could see the braid coming at them.
I hear what you're saying about a baitcaster not offering an advantage with spoons. As I'm sure you've notcied almost noone s/h fishes (at least on the Vedder) with a spinning rod and spoons. And you'll get a few funny looks, not that I give a rats rectum ;D However I love swinging spoons and spinners and will try to make an effort this winter and go out here and there with just my spinning set up and tupperware of metal.
What do you think about swinging large spinners like Blue Fox # 4 and #5? With salmon I always felt like they were not getting down enough, and I caught many more coho, pinks, (few chum for some reason) etc on spoons then spinners.
Last question...I was checking out trophytackle's website, I like the look of those spoons! A lot of colors to choose from, any tops you'd reccomend for s/h? I like the half purple half pink one :) I'm thinking of ordering 2 each of 6 or so diff spoons to try them out.
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Wow, great thread gentlemen. Love the increased interest in spoons and spinners for salmon and steelhead. There is really nothing like the take of steelhead on a spoon or spinner. They smash it with some bad intentions.
EVERYDAY makes gives some excellent advice. He's definitely a wealth of knowledge and most importantly experience. I agree with almost everything he says. It is important to swap the factory hooks on most of the locally sold spoons especially if fishing waters with wild fish. Gibbs for example, uses ridiculously oversized hooks which not only are harmful to the fish but in my opinion provide less penetrating power and fish holding ability. The trailer hook method or swivel to hook at the base of the spoon does seem to produce very clean hooksets and better landing ratio. The only thing I don't entirely agree with is the spinning reel suggestion. I have fished with both spinning and levelwind reels and prefer the levelwind/casting for function and fashion. For chinook and steelhead, I find myself feeding line quite often. Some of the heavier and/or deeper water I target requires bursts or steady feeding of line in order to keep the lure near bottom. Another scenario where I will feed line is fishing long seams...especially far side seems with a bunch of dead water on the inside. By applying a slight amount of tension to the reel and feeding line, I can extend my "drift" while maintaining the desired action on the spoon. There is a ton of info online and in various traditional publications. I highly recommend "Spoon Fishing for Steelhead" by Bill Herzog and "Spinner Fishing for Steelhead, Salmon and Trout" by Jed Davis. They are two fantastic pieces of literature. We'll actually be giving away some copies in the new year for orders over $100. Spawn Sack, i'll send you a copy of the book of your choosing with your order if its over $100.
And yes, I concur with your observation of Blue Fox Vibrax spinners not getting down. And they don't cast well. If you're looking for good quality casting spinners that cast well, get down and stay down...try Bent Rod's spinners or obviously the meticulously hand crafted Trophy Tackle spinners. Custom made to your specifications. Featuring genuine gold and genuine silver plating........
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I also use a baitcaster for spinners and spoons and would never swap out to a spinning reel, casts great pays out line smoothly and I prefer the better drag system, just preference as always though no right or wrong way.
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Wow, great thread gentlemen. Love the increased interest in spoons and spinners for salmon and steelhead. There is really nothing like the take of steelhead on a spoon or spinner. They smash it with some bad intentions.
EVERYDAY makes gives some excellent advice. He's definitely a wealth of knowledge and most importantly experience. I agree with almost everything he says. It is important to swap the factory hooks on most of the locally sold spoons especially if fishing waters with wild fish. Gibbs for example, uses ridiculously oversized hooks which not only are harmful to the fish but in my opinion provide less penetrating power and fish holding ability. The trailer hook method or swivel to hook at the base of the spoon does seem to produce very clean hooksets and better landing ratio. The only thing I don't entirely agree with is the spinning reel suggestion. I have fished with both spinning and levelwind reels and prefer the levelwind/casting for function and fashion. For chinook and steelhead, I find myself feeding line quite often. Some of the heavier and/or deeper water I target requires bursts or steady feeding of line in order to keep the lure near bottom. Another scenario where I will feed line is fishing long seams...especially far side seems with a bunch of dead water on the inside. By applying a slight amount of tension to the reel and feeding line, I can extend my "drift" while maintaining the desired action on the spoon. There is a ton of info online and in various traditional publications. I highly recommend "Spoon Fishing for Steelhead" by Bill Herzog and "Spinner Fishing for Steelhead, Salmon and Trout" by Jed Davis. They are two fantastic pieces of literature. We'll actually be giving away some copies in the new year for orders over $100. Spawn Sack, i'll send you a copy of the book of your choosing with your order if its over $100.
And yes, I concur with your observation of Blue Fox Vibrax spinners not getting down. And they don't cast well. If you're looking for good quality casting spinners that cast well, get down and stay down...try Bent Rod's spinners or obviously the meticulously hand crafted Trophy Tackle spinners. Custom made to your specifications. Featuring genuine gold and genuine silver plating........
Trophy Tackle: I agree 100% that the hook you get on Gibbs spoons are terrible. For one you need to pretty much be fishing a pool cue to get a good hook set, and two, as Everyday pointed out, they often harm/main fish. I swap all my factory spoon and spinner hooks before I fish them. I know Everyday is big on sickle siwash hooks. I tried them this year and yes I like them, but I still think I land more fish with the Mustad Ultra point. Who knows there are so many variables that come into play :o I probabaly just like the way the Mustads look more ::)
As far as the books go, thanks but I already have both! ;D As far as using a bait caster with spoons is concerned I do recall Bill Herzog saying that under certain conditions it may be an advantage to feed line out as your spoon is swinging. I have never tried this, but I'd be willing to give it a go and make up my own mind if I think it is working for me or not. All I have done thus far is fish them on a spinning reel, cast out, flip the bail, and swing through the current. I try to adjust the rod angle, tension on the line, and the angle I cast out at to vary the depth my spoon is at (as well as switching spoons). For coho I'll throw in the odd jig/twitch which sometimes seems to be the ticket. I've never caught a s/h on a spoon but, as E/D points out, to get good at metal fishing you need to put some time in with your spoon rod and leave the float set up at home that day. I plan to put in a few solid days of just spoon fishing this winter and try and up my spoon skills and hopefully get into some s/h with them! ;D
I'll order up some R&B spoons in the new year and give them a go!
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Those rb spoons are great. And trophy tackles stuff caught me a few coho this year. Roe is great but metal is easy and clean, you should only get your hands dirty cleaning fish.
And everydays small hook trick is also brilliant. I used it fishing the skagit this year after injuring a large bull trout with a croc spoon. Always nice to watch your catch swim away after you release it.
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Can't say enough good things about Trophy Tackle. I put in a few orders and customer service/shipping time is top notch.
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Well enough people have raved about T/T's spoons I'll be giving them a shot for sure! Sounds like 2/5 is a solid weight for s/h fishing. Can anyone reccomend a few solid colors for steelheading on the Vedder? There are a ton of colors to choose from. As a general rule of thumb with spoons/spinners I fish plain/hammered silver or brass if the water is had decent clairity to very clear, a bit of color (red stripe or whatever) if the water is colored, and as bright/obnoxious as possible if the water is murky. I am by no means an acclomplished metal fisherman, still lots to learn.
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Never fished the Vedder.... But I've had good success in other places using silver blades when the water is clear and temperature is down..... Brass (gold, copper etc) spoons in the spring, especially in coloured water.
Another fan of trophy tackle and their products....