Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: hrenya on August 22, 2015, 02:43:05 PM
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I was fishing at garry point ,after fraser was shutdown for salmon fishing , for pike minnows and chubs . Had 2 sets of rods on me , 1 for bottom with 2 hooks , and 1 spinning . After using bottom with no luck for a bit , I saw a few pikes jumped by rocks, I ran there with my spinning set up . At this time DFO was walking by . There were 2 of them , 1 was checking my buddy , other one was checking me . He asked me what am I fishing for , and I told him that since fraser is closed for salmon , I fish for pike minnows and chubs . I had silver spoon with orange strip on it (similar to the ones Rod uses in his videos) , the guy told me that hook is very big and I fish pink salmon (I had ultra light rod and 4 lbs mono on my little spinning reel) , I tried to explained him that I know that fraser is closed for fishing salmon , and im trying to catch pike minnow , he said pretty much - I don't believe you , u fishing for pink salmon and your hook is too big for pike minnow . I`ve landed few pikes on that lure , and a hook size is 2/0 . After he had a look at my bottom rig with 2 hooks size 10 , he said that's the set up for pike minnow . I didn't want to argue with him and showed him all my spoons I had on me , all are similar : copper with colored strip or silver with strip . He didn't want to check them out .
question :
which lures are consider to be for salmon only (I couldn`t find it on DFO`s web site) / does the hook size really matter(It doesn`t say on DFO`s web site) if you fish for another kind of fish other than salmon ? (You may still fish for for trout, sturgeon,
Cutthroat , Dolly Varden as well as other species) - that's from berry`s report .
p.s. I had 7-8 chubs in my cooler , and he saw that ....
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Specific lures for salmon are not stated in the regulations.
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yeah I know that , so what was the problem ?!
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I would really see Rod`s thoughts about this , cuz he is using gear a lot in tidal fraser
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yeah I know that , so what was the problem ?!
The problem is the size of the lure and hook is generally associated with salmon or trout. Imagine if you will if you see someone using a #5/0 hook and a sturgeon outfit during a sturgeon closure and he claims he's fishing for pike minnows. Would you believe him ?
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The problem is the size of the lure and hook is generally associated with salmon or trout. Imagine if you will if you see someone using a #5/0 hook and a sturgeon outfit during a sturgeon closure and he claims he's fishing for pike minnows. Would you believe him ?
(You may still fish for for trout, sturgeon,
Cutthroat , Dolly Varden as well as other species) - that's from berry`s report .
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just cuz u r oldtimer , should I tell next time to dfo - whats berrys report say ? or what should I do ? I actually mentioned that I had some chubs in my cooler , and I was aiming white fish only .
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They were just doing their job and they didn't ticket you. Sounds like they would prefer if you put a smaller hook on which which sounds pretty reasonable.
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He was probably just busting your balls, there is nothing in the regulations that state what size hook must be used for what species. It is also in the regulations that the closure is to salmon only.
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And I also agree with cutthroat, they were doing their jobs and giving you a recommendation and did not ticket you
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You did nothing wrong, and there is not much you can do. It is a pretty common police technique to put a person on the defensive in the hopes they will mess up and admit to wrong doing. If you did nothing wrong then all you can do is answer their questions, smile, and enjoy your catch.
While a 2/0 hook may seem too big to some I have had sculpins take lures that are as big as they, and a decent size pike minnow has a good size mouth, bigger than a pink in my opinion. As far as it goes, I think that #10 hooks are a but small for pike minnow as they are too likely to swallow it. Perfect size for chub though.
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They were just doing their job and they didn't ticket you. Sounds like they would prefer if you put a smaller hook on which which sounds pretty reasonable.
your sound exactly like that guy , that makes me think you guys think of pike minnow like fish under 10-12 inches , but in reality those creatures grow up over pinks , and as the last member mentioned , their head is like 30%+ of their body .
p.s. I`ll do it for fun , I`ll put a #10 hook on couple of my spoons and keep casting them , but I think it would look SOOOO WROOONG ...
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Good points! I fished the other day for pikeminnows to show my 3yr old. My smallest rod is super light 6ft trout rod fished on the bottom with #8 hooks. At one point I andmade a few casts with a 1/8 croc and stopped right away, feeling like a criminal LOL
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Good points! I fished the other day for pikeminnows to show my 3yr old. My smallest rod is super light 6ft trout rod fished on the bottom with #8 hooks. At one point I andmade a few casts with a 1/8 croc and stopped right away, feeling like a criminal LOL
exactly , but why you stopped if closure is for salmon only ? I still think some people including DFO cant imagine a pike bigger than pink :D I think same goes with dollys/bulls . biggest one I got in spring was over 8lbs , and they are salmonoids (pretty sure in one of the articles Rod mentioned that) and you CAN fish for them . Its one of those little things that gives BIG pain and makes no sense .
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Before I went out myself I called DFO and asked them this very thing, if I want to fish for trout and pike minnow, how do I ensure a fisheries officer isn't going to claim I am targeting salmon. It took them some time and a few off the hook discussions before coming back with a very luke warm response. They basically said that as long as you are using gear suited for other species, that is to say you are not using gear specific to catching salmon, you are ok. This is particularly troublesome for me as I use my 6 weight rod for fishing all manner of fish, including salmon. He told me I would be fine. Now if I was to use my 8 weight and a big zonker fly and claim I was targeting big Dollies and monster pike minnow, I would be ticketed for certain. It doesn't matter that pike minnow can grow large enough to take a 2/0 hook, what matters is that people use a hook that size when fishing salmon. Use a small lure and hook, suitable for small trout and small like minnow. If you happen to hook a big dolly or pike minnow, it will be ample enough to bring it in.
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Ok but 1/8 gibbs crocs do catch coho for example - 1st hand experience. I just didn't want to have to explain it to an officer. I'm not saying you can't defend yourself successfully but why risk over a few pikeminnows.
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If you are tossing spoons in the lower Fraser you are fishing for salmon, period.
The regulations are there to protect the fish so any by catch must not be allowed.
I would have ticketed you and taken your spinning outfit if I were the CO.
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I wonder if you read where exactly I was fishing and about my setup . I hope people like you will never become DFO.
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You're fishing at Garry Point tossing spoons. If the Fraser were open I would be doing the same.
You're even using the right croc for coho.
Nothing legal about what you are doing.
Try fishing off the bottom with powerbait. You won't catch any salmon that way.
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how I supposed to catch bull trout/dollys or pike minnows ?! cast bar rig with roe ? I was fishing by shore , where no salmon comes close to shore . Regulations says no fishing for salmon ! close all river for all fin fish then , or make pretty explanations for what I can fish , what I can use , or reimburse me for my fishing license .
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you may as well read post fly fishing guy replied on the first page ... do some thinking ...
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When there is a particular species closure (ie salmon) yet other species are open, then presumably they prefer you to fish in a way that totally eliminates any bycatch of the closed species. As such, I think the onus is on you to demonstrate there would be little/no chance of accidentally catching salmon when they are closed.
So you were honestly trying to follow the rules, but it just so happens that casting spoons is one of the most effective method of targeting salmon in the lower Fraser from shore. If pinks were in there in good numbers now, you would absolutely have had a good chance of getting them on that croc. And what if you hooked a pink right in front of him? Hardly impossible at this time of year and then you'd really have some explaining to do :)
Think of it from the CO's point of view. They probably have heard every excuse in the book as to why someone is doing whatever they were caught doing. I think he would be somewhat justified in being at least somewhat skeptical in your statement that you are hoping for only pikeminnow or chubs when you are applying proven salmon techniques and gear It doesn't pass the sniff test, even though your intentions were legit.
It sounds like he was just putting the screws to you to see if there were any holes in your story. In the end, no ticket so no worries...
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so u really think silver/copper croc with orange strip will work for pinks ?! in the bay which is empty on low tide and shallow on high tide , so if u let it sink over 1-2 secs you ll get snags ?
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Yes, Pinks travel within 6 feet of shore a lot of the time and can be caught in 2 feet of water.
Yes, A silver/copper croc will work for Pinks and Coho if the visibility is good (like it is now).
You can keep arguing a case that has no basis, or you can choose to fish legally.
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Yes, Pinks travel within 6 feet of shore a lot of the time and can be caught in 2 feet of water.
Yes, A silver/copper croc will work for Pinks and Coho if the visibility is good (like it is now).
You can keep arguing a case that has no basis, or you can choose to fish legally.
I do fish legally , that's why I ask you , legal fisherman , and you telling me wrong thing . Pinks never come that close at that stop where I was fishing to begin with , my light set up I choose for pikes was with me for a reason . Also if I do know where is no fishing for salmon , do you really think I would be that stupid to fish at the park ?! and show me the list of spoons/hooks I can use to aim for pikes and bulls/dolly then river closed for salmon . I prefer with pictures , thanks a lot .
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almost forgot , don't argue . just show me the pictures of spoons and hooks
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Here is a portion of what can be caught at Gary Point from this site-----
"there are many species of fish that you can target at Garry Point Park. Fish species that anglers might encounter include peamouth chub, northern pikeminnow, largescaled sucker, starry flounder, pacific tomcod, spiny dogfish, sculpin, dolly varden, bull trout, cutthroat trout and of course five species of pacific salmon!"
Using almost any type of lure when Salmon are present can be termed as targeting Salmon :-\ (its not a case of size or colour)
hrenya please don't take this as arguing we are just trying to help you :)
Thanks
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thanks , im not trying to argue . I just want to figure it out not by "I think you can or I think you cant" . Too bad DFO office on Steveston closes at 4pm , I`ll try to make it next week and get more clear info .
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While you can target all species of salmon at Garry Point, if you fish in the bays where the water is 5ft or less, away from the main channel, with an ultralight spinning outfit, no one's going to suggest you are fishing for salmon.
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While you can target all species of salmon at Garry Point, if you fish in the bays where the water is 5ft or less, away from the main channel, with an ultralight spinning outfit, no one's going to suggest you are fishing for salmon.
that's exactly what I was doing, that's why I mentioned it so many times to some stuborn ppl . I casted from the rocks across the last bay , not into river , was fishing for chub , but then saw pikes jumped few times , and casted spoon .
Rod you just made it more confused :D according to typhoon .
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I am always amazed at the way fisherman throw each under the bus. Some say cast bait out floating off the bottom or under a float. Ok, lets discuss that.
Roe: nope, can't use that as it is a common salmon bait.
Shrimp or Prawns: I have read numerous articles about how to rig this up to target salmon is estuaries and river mouths (IE: Steveston) to target salmon, so that is known to catch salmon.
Power bait: well I guess that would work, but then again I have never caught any fish on it, including stocked trout or pike minnows so I never use it.
Spinners and Spoons: I have targeted salmon at Gary Point and similar areas where there is large variety of species and the by-catch is about equal, if not tipping in favour of Pikeminnow, sculpin, and other. If a person takes a walk down at Gary Point during the Bullhead Derby you will see several people casting these as well as just using bait. Why, because the work.
I have seen people catch sturgeon on Bar rigs designed for chinook. Does that mean every person who uses such a set up needs to purchase a Sturgeon Tag? It is up the fisher to go to areas that fish will limit the by-catch. It seems to me Hrenya did just that. As long as there are salmon in the Fraser it doesn't matter what you use there is the chance you will catch one. The only way to stop it is to close the river entirely and no one wants that.
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if ill ever catch salmon in the bay at garry point on my ultra light spinning gear - I probably will be the first one to do so , from what I`ve heard from oldtimers fishing for salmon in Richmond , which is why I chose that specific spot to fish with spoon for pikes . I guess only Rod understood what I meant .
p.s. got few pikes on sturgeon rig , and few of buds too . #6-7 hook with ooligan were used :D .
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thanks , im not trying to argue . I just want to figure it out not by "I think you can or I think you cant" . Too bad DFO office on Steveston closes at 4pm , I`ll try to make it next week and get more clear info .
I would be interested to know what they say, since I don’t know that anyone is going to be able to give you a straight answer. There’s no list of lures and techniques that will only attract pikeminnow and bulls but not salmon, it’s up to the fisheries officers interpretation and presumably they have wide discretion in how they enforce. If you run into one who’s having a bad day, or maybe he’s not that familiar with the subtleties of that fishery, they can make your life difficult, but to be fair all the one’s I’ve encountered have been very reasonable.
It sounds like you’ve done all you can to ensure to don’t target salmon during the closure so go for it!
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Once again, I spoke to the DFO OFFICE and asked the question over a week ago. I was told that as long as you use gear used to target other species (ie: hrenya's trout rod with 4 pound test) then you are fine. I specifically asked about my fly rod as I use my 6 weight for both trout and for small salmon species (pinks, coho, even sockeye in the Harrison), and I was told that I would be fine as it was used to target trout and there would little chance of hooking a sockeye Where hrenya's ran into trouble was the size of the spoon's hook (similar to if I tied on a big zonker for Chinook and claimed to be targeting pike minnow (yes, I have caught big pike minnow on them, just like I have caught bullheads on my big spoons, but I used those flies to target springs and consider the pike minnow a by catch). I think hrenya's gear was acceptable, which is why he wasn't ticketed, but the choice of spoon was what made the officer think twice. At the end of the day, the closure of all salmon was not to stop the by catch of pink salmon while casting for pike minnow any way. It was to stop the by catch of sockeye while fishing for other salmon. If they hassle you for casting small spoons on a 4 pound trout rod, then they are just jerking you around. There is no danger to sockeye with that rod. It's why they did not close the whole river down, so we can continue to fish for other species.