Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nostro on April 06, 2006, 07:35:49 AM
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Another angle on sport angling
By Chilliwack Apr 04 2006
Re: Mail bag-March31, "Sport fishery will survive court challenge," by Ernie Crey.
I am a sportfisherman in the Fraser Valley and would just like to point out a couple of discrepancies in Mr. Crey’s article. Obviously Ernie has not read the sport fish regulations federally or provincially because if he had he would have noticed that there are hundreds of different angling closures during any calendar year for numerous species of fish in fresh and salt water.Also, Ernie, the Stolo fisherman have always had equal fishing opportunity as the sportfishing fraternity and can pickup a fishing rod and go fishing any time they do and enjoy the use of a species selective fishing method. The Stolo fisherman have never been closed down any more than any sportfisherman have, only your method has been closed as gill netting is non selective and can do serious damage to fish stocks.My last point is to wonder at the statement Mr. Crey made concerning “First Nations making every effort to work with local anglers to resolve differences,” when the Cheam band (of which Ernie is a member) dropped out of the dialogue sessions with the local Sportfishing Advisory Committee which was setup to bring back harmony on the river. I realize there is going to be some discussion on these issues, but when you do a rebuttal, half truths are not the norm.
Nick Basok
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Another angle on sport angling
By Chilliwack Apr 04 2006
Re: Mail bag-March31, "Sport fishery will survive court challenge," by Ernie Crey.
I I realize there is going to be some discussion on these issues, but when you do a rebuttal, half truths are not the norm.
Nick Basok
Half truths are the norm when you need to twist the truth to suit your agenda like Ernie always does in radio or tv interview that I have ever watched or listened to.
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Hear, hear
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Apparently the only time you guys have anything to say with regards to First Nation people is when it is negative or against them.
::)
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Here we go again
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Apparently the only time you guys have anything to say with regards to First Nation people is when it is negative or against them.
::)
I wish the cheam would do something positive that we could congratulate them on. Most first nations bands in our provinvce do alot of great things for "our" fisheries and environment. The band up in the brouton archipeligo who are oposing the fish farms come to mind. Its not a matter of race its a matter of some peoples stupid actions. Why can't you see that? and why must you always play the race card?
Most first nations people I know are also pissed at the cheam band for giving them a bad name.
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Here we go again
My sentiments exactly.
I don't have to say anything else, it's quite well documented already.
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Okay P/F we have already agreed to disagree, so why do you insist on this crap. If you don't like what is being said don't post a reply. I'm not a racist like you think but your comments are starting to make me think like one so I hope you are happy now.
Oh Bill, you and I know I can't make you start making you do anything you don't already do, however you've done a great job at exposing yourself.
Timbo - By no means am I defending the Cheam. My point was the only time anyone seems to comment here with regards to First Nations is when it's negative. There are 104 viewings to the FYI post I made and yet no one commented on that. So please, spare me the 'race' card wit.
The Cheam people angry. They have a right to be angry. They don't have a right to try and stop everyone from fishing. They don't have a right to try to make every First nation look bad. They do have a right to their own decision making. How they've chosen to deal with the situation is on them - not all of First Nation people.
The fact of the matter is the only reason people seem to care so much is that they are in direct conflict with your (general) sport fishing pleasure. No one cares that there will be a greater amount of Salmon in the Okanagan because you aren't allowed to fish for them. It's taken how many years (10) before even kokanee to become an allowable catch. But I bet you'll flock at the chance to fish for them once it opens.
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The fact of the matter is the only reason people seem to care so much is that they are in direct conflict with your (general) sport fishing pleasure. No one cares that there will be a greater amount of Salmon in the Okanagan because you aren't allowed to fish for them. It's taken how many years (10) before even kokanee to become an allowable catch. But I bet you'll flock at the chance to fish for them once it opens.
This is a gross generalization prettyfly, equal to the discrimination you have pointed out against some First nations groups.....I resent this statement, and find it to be an ignorant one, which serves no purpose but to foster greater misunderstanding between the obvious interest groups....I haven't visited this forum for a bit, and upon my return I have been reading through the posts I have missed. I just read through your FYI post, and felt encouraged that an endangered stock is being helped, and even more encouraged that so many interest groups will be working together on this system....now I move through all the other posts I have missed, and I read through this post and feel great dissappointment that you would generalize with comments like those above....it's shocking really to read one great post and then to click over and read this lousy one. Did the same person write them? I care that these okanagen stocks are saved, I don't care at all if I ever fish them though....what is important here are the stocks that are endangered, and that people are working together to save them....not the fishermen, not you, not me. Period. Why don't you stop exhibiting the very traits you seem so eager to point out in others, it's obvious you have a cause here, and to some extent it is a just one and deserving of our attention.....but when you make dumb comments like this one it defeats the purpose. Why not stick with intelligent, informative and relevant posts like the FYI post instead of mudslinging ones like this one? When you say things like this it only compounds and contributes to the problem, here I was thinking maybe I was wrong about you - untill you wrote this junk....
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agreed Ribwart......you wanna make dumbass statements like that....expect folks ta call ya on it.....oh....don' be stereotypin' me plzz....silly pretty fly..... :D :D :D :D
mojo
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Of course you're going to call me on every little detail. You did read in brackets general.
It's ok, I understand you're digging deep. As long as generalized statements are going to be continued and people are going to continue using the term 'first nation' or worse 'the natives' when whining about what the cheam band is doing now then yes, I am too going to use generalized statements.
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It seems your use of the word general was not applied correctly Prettyfly, as it should have been applied to your generalization about what sportfishermen care about, as I didn't read (General) when you refered to how
No one cares that there will be a greater amount of Salmon in the Okanagan because you aren't allowed to fish for them. It's taken how many years (10) before even kokanee to become an allowable catch. But I bet you'll flock at the chance to fish for them once it opens.
and if I were going to call you on every little detail then I would need to devote at least as much time to this cause of yours as you do, unfortunately I don't have that time, but if I did, I would devote it to contributing to some solution
.... not using
generalized statements
Now, I haven't dug deep at all as you put it, prettyfly....I simply read your FYI post, responded, (thinking maybe for once you actually had something positive and constructive to say), and then clicked over to this one and read petty, inflamatory comments laced with bitterness!!!!? It's clear the impression you made on me in our first encounter in the "seven months for ramming DFO boat" post was obviously a correct identification of your real character, it is clear your concerns have little to do with the state of fisheries resources, and more with satisfying some personal vendetta against the perpetrators of injustices of the past.
Now, nobody is "whining" about the Cheam band....I do see that someone has pointed out that Mr. Ernie Crey has exhibited a double standard by saying
First Nations making every effort to work with local anglers to resolve differences
then when the Cheam band (of which Ernie is a member) dropped out of the dialogue sessions with the local Sportfishing Advisory Committee, it is obvious that every effort is not being made, and that our efforts fall on deaf ears if the cheam band is not listening, right? This is precisely the kind of thing that really contributes to the problem!!!!!
So if we are going to contribute to a solution, despite prettyfly's obvious incapacitating issues, then I would like to understand this problem with using the term "First nations"....? If someone is not refering to a specific band, but is refering to first nations fishing rights in general, I cannot think of wording that can otherwise make that point. Can someone, (not you prettyfly, unless you can post something here without once again displaying such singlemindedness), please explain to me how this is in anyway disrespectfull or wrong? and if so what would be the proper wording to refer to this interest groups rights? I for one would like to correct my error if I have made one. Maybe if we establish some guidelines so as not to offend, we won't have to continue to read posts like the ones prettyfly seems to prefer to put out there....
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You know, I've been a member of this forum now for..a year..maybe a little less. I was diplomatic, I didn't say too much for or against either side. I tried, in a non threatening way to educate some on some of the words that were being used and the implications they had on all.
I was pretty much ignored.
Now that I've started getting more defensive, the ignorant start pointing fingers trying to justify themselves. I am but one person and its amazing how many there are getting their panties in a knot against me.
Do you see how this has escalated and why? 1 person does something to stand up for themselves and the oppressive try to negate, undermine, make a joke of it and ultimately devalue. I don't want for it to be that way, not for anyone. Not everyone on this board is educated and it's clear. They're very oppressive. And just as the majority here believe the Cheam band is making all of First Nation people look bad - these people, these oppressive individuals make the sports fishing community look bad.
I've been amongst many sportfishermen and not once have I spoken negatively about them. I know there are many very ethical and conscientious sportfishermen. I know they work hard to preseve the pastime they love. I also know there are many who speak of only what they see, not knowing or caring what the underlying issues are. I know there are people who don't really give a damn about anything except fishing and as long as one person stands in their way they will do whatever it takes to get them out of their way.
I have friends who are sport fishermen, some who are from this country some who are not. I have infact had to defend "The Natives" to close and dear friends abouty on the history of BC involvement with it's many first nation communities. I will stand my ground and force feed education when someone places blanket statements accusing "The Natives" and "First Nations" without justice. Some people seem to need that before they will even try to understand. Others don't give a damn.
BC is not the same as the rest of Canada. Thank the government for that. The government wants you all to think that the "First Nations" are one people. Many seem to think that way even tho it is clear in its very wording "First Nations" is plural. Okanagan is not the same as Sto:lo. Thompson is not the same as Nuxalk etc. I reccomend auditing a Political Studies class that has first nation students in it.
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You know, I've been a member of this forum now for..a year..maybe a little less. I was diplomatic, I didn't say too much for or against either side. I tried, in a non threatening way to educate some on some of the words that were being used and the implications they had on all.
I was pretty much ignored.
Now that I've started getting more defensive, the ignorant start pointing fingers trying to justify themselves. I am but one person and its amazing how many there are getting their panties in a knot against me.
Do you see how this has escalated and why? 1 person does something to stand up for themselves and the oppressive try to negate, undermine, make a joke of it and ultimately devalue. I don't want for it to be that way, not for anyone. Not everyone on this board is educated and it's clear. They're very oppressive. And just as the majority here believe the Cheam band is making all of First Nation people look bad - these people, these oppressive individuals make the sports fishing community look bad.
I've been amongst many sportfishermen and not once have I spoken negatively about them. I know there are many very ethical and conscientious sportfishermen. I know they work hard to preseve the pastime they love. I also know there are many who speak of only what they see, not knowing or caring what the underlying issues are. I know there are people who don't really give a damn about anything except fishing and as long as one person stands in their way they will do whatever it takes to get them out of their way.
I have friends who are sport fishermen, some who are from this country some who are not. I have infact had to defend "The Natives" to close and dear friends about on the history of BC involvement with it's many first nation communities. I will stand my ground and force feed education when someone places blanket statements accusing "The Natives" and "First Nations" without justice. Some people seem to need that before they will even try to understand. Others don't give a damn.
BC is not the same as the rest of Canada. Thank the government for that. The government wants you all to think that the "First Nations" are one people. Many seem to think that way even tho it is clear in its very wording "First Nations" is plural. Okanagan is not the same as Sto:lo. Thompson is not the same as Nuxalk etc. I reccomend auditing a Political Studies class that has first nation students in it.
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I'm sorry, I'm not sure I get your point exactly....are you calling someone specific ignorant or uneducated? Was some individual being oppressive? Also, I seem to recall that this post was regarding the cheam band, not all first nations, am I wrong? I don't read any blanket statements in this thread...and perhaps you would like to help me with the correct use of the term "first nations" as it might help everyone here if we learned some better wording, and subsequently stopped getting you so worked up. ;)
And lastly, someone in this forum is getting thier panties in a knot??? Who's wearing panties? ;D ;D ;D LOL
I'm not sure if you are trying to make a joke or what, but If not, how is this relevant to fisheries issues and the double standard exhibited by Mr. Crey's statement? It seems you are getting sidetracked again Prettyfly, can we discuss how Mr. Crey's comments and actions might affect our fisheries? That was the initial intent of this post, was it not?
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I'm not sure if you are trying to make a joke or what, but If not, how is this relevant to fisheries issues and the double standard exhibited by Mr. Crey's statement? It seems you are getting sidetracked again Prettyfly, can we discuss how Mr. Crey's comments and actions might affect our fisheries? That was the initial intent of this post, was it not?
*I* think Mr. Crey's comments are a direct reflection of the double standards that are,seemingly the way the federal government works.
The facts are simple. The federal government tries to pass off responsibility to individual provinces and the provinces try to create laws they cannot uphold. The DFO gets caught between Federal and provincial jurisdiction that reflect badly to the general population. Provincially sanctioned organizations form in an effort to protect their interests and try to rally the DFO and Provincial Government to back them. They try to demand that the First Nation communities oblige them in discussion. The reality is, that First Nation people are not under provincial jurisdiction, they are a federal body. First Nation communities have to answer only to the Federal Government. First Nation communities are not obligated to deal with anyone other than the Federal Government. The Federal Government tries to skirt the issues and once again pass the buck off to the Provincial Government. Until that cycle is broken, bands will continue to voice their concerns, some like Cheam will continue to petition the federal government in any means necessary until it is resolved.
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Seems like a real cluster$$% to me, it's unfortunate the Cheam band won't talk to the province, and equally unfortunate the feds won't talk to the Cheam band....but what about Mr. Crey's Statement about "First Nations making every effort to work with local anglers to resolve differences"? Just because the Cheam band doesn't want to talk to the province, and the Feds are being goofs, it seems like it only contributes to the problem if The Cheam band Starts talks with local anglers, and then leaves the table before anything is accomplished.....This is a very complicated problem, involving groups of people with very complicated dynamics and obviously it is going to take some serious changes to the system to resolve the issue....
Now Prettyfly, you see how much more productive it is when you actually talk about the topic of the thread than going off on tangents like that? Now we can discuss what can be done, rather than what was done....isn't this better than name calling and insults?
So, can anyone shed some light on why the Federal Government won't talk to the Cheam band, and likewise why the cheam band won't engage in discussion with the provincial gov't????
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hey pretty , just wondering how much fish you eat say in a month, im not to clear on actually natives that fish for food and ceremonial purposes,actually eat in a month
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I believe it was stated in an earlier thread that prettyfly doesn't eat fish, ko. 8)
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I believe it was stated in an earlier thread that prettyfly doesn't eat fish, ko. 8)
Where? I'm beginning to wonder about your intentions.
I'd eat salmon every second day if I could. I'm lactose intolerant (like most first nation people) and don't get enough calcium in my diet. Salmon is high in calcium, especially canned salmon. My kids absolutely love salmon as well. Dried salmon, smoked salmon, canned salmon, bbqed salmon. Fish and rice was a staple in college I think I did eat at least twice a week as my boyfriend was a river person. My brother in law fishes for us and it's not in the amounts that you'd think. I think between my parents and I we only have like 4 salmon in the freezer so I have to spread it around.
What I said is I don't fish for salmon. I've only ever fished for trout. I'm hoping to change that this year.
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Sorry, my bad...got two different forums mixed up! LoL ;D (No offence)
rib
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Sorry, my bad...got two different forums mixed up!
You mean... There is another forum? :o :'(
;)
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Only if you recognize this forum as the genuine original, and all others as purely imitations ;)