Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: allwaysfishin on August 25, 2005, 10:41:00 AM
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I have received info through "the vine" that there may be a major commercial protest fishery this weekend. I have been told that this is to be a very organized and purposefull event.
The commercial sector is adopting the principle that Those manageing our fisheries , both provincial and federal should be replaced with folks who can play hardball with the FN's. I totally support this and echo my own comments regarding COMPLETE NON CONFIDENCE in our fisheries management. The commercial sector is requesting sport fisher support during this protest and would like to see us on the water right along side them. If I receive any more pertinent info I will let you all know.
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Sporties indeed have a very small voice, I am glad to see the commercial guys stepping in. Their last protest fishery was very successful and left egg on DFO's face as the supreme court said a FN COMMERCIAL opening was racially based and therefore threw out the charges laid againts our comercial fishers.
Point is, this is a "food fishery" now and DFO's mandate is to provide FN with priority access to stocks for this purpose. We all know they arent getting all counted (maybe DFO knows that to and factors it in) we also know alot get sold. But I don't think the courts would not diferentiate what actually happens to FN catch...they wil simply see it as a food fishery.
I hope their actions are successful as they are already in a pot of hot water (not having a season yet), so a protest fishery could bring that water to a boil.
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Good point. However, that fact DFO has no acurate number on fishes taken by FN is still incompetent on their part and its mismanagement.
20 hours drifnetting can be no fish can be thousands of fish. Without good monitoring system. Well whos to say if FN has enough for food or not?
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i HAVE BEEN TOLD TODAY, BY STAKEHOLDERS AT THE DFO CONFERENCE THAT SPORTIES AND COMMERCIAL ARE NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED ACCESS TO THIS YEARS RUN.
I WILL BE JOINING ANY PROTEST FISHERIES THIS WEEKEND PROVIDING THEY ARE WELL ORGANIZED.
MORE DETAILS TO COME. WHEN THE COMMERCIAL BOYS LET ME KNOW WHAT THE PLANS ARE, I WILL RELAY THEM TO YOU ALL
SPREAD THE WORD
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH EITHER CLOSE IT TO ALL OR OPEN IT UP.
THERE WILL BE NO MORE SPECIAL INTEREST DECISIONS FOR FN'S ACCEPTED BY COMMERCIAL OR SPORTIES.
A WELL ORGANIZED PROTEST FISHERY IS SURE BETTER THAN BURNING BOATS AND NET SHACKS, OR MAYBE THE GOVERNMENT WANTS ANOTHER "BURNT CHURCH" SITUATION ON THE WEST COAST....... SMOKE AND ASHES IS BETTER THAN SMOKE AND MIRRORS...
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well said i agree with you 100% and will welcome the chance to join the protest fishery if needed ;D
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For those who are considering going out to harvest sockeyes against DFO's regulations, you do it at your own risk. As for a protest, is there a need to kill some fish to get your points across? What kind of impacts does it do to the sportfishing sector in the public eyes if anglers go out and break the law? I am 100% against any protest fishery, which would further widen the gap between DFO and the recreational sector (for those who are unaware, DFO and the local SFAC have been working extremely hard together to find as many recreational fishing opportunities as possible. We try to get lots of information out so people are aware of what's going on. We are (I am at least) very happy with the professionalism of all the local DFO staff who go out of their ways to satisfy our requests for information each time). How is our protest fishery different to what the Cheam First Nation has done in the last couple of months? What exactly are people trying to accomplish?
FYI, for a rec opening to happen:
- If the run size stays at 4.5M - no changes status quo
- If run size is upgraded to 5.0M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 165k (rec share approx 8k. Comm share approx 157)
- If run size is upgraded to 5.5M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 375k (rec share approx 19k Comm share approx 356)
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I agree with Rod. You dont need to kill fish to make your point. You can be heard through media outlets our a protest through the streets. Their are many ways to do it. Killing fish is only making the problem worse and as Rodney said you are no better than the Cheam in what they are doing. If people go out this weekend and kill fish you know that its not because of the protest its an excuse to get some sockeye in the freezer.
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I'm not sure if I agree with a protest fishery but I am not at all suprised it's come to this. DFO has done a %$^&-poor job of letting people know WTF they are thinking or planning. On one hand, the protest may receive much-needed media attention; on the other hand the commercials can wipe out out entire races of fish in very short order (as has been very close to being demonstrated in the past). If this protest goes ahead, I hope it has maximum media impact and minimum fish impact.
Rod- If DFO is being very open and helpful in the meetings you are attending re: maximising sport fishing opportunities, I would ask that the info pertaining to the salmon fishery opportunities be posted here for all to see. I am not questioning you Rod, I have just been involved in too many government 'consultations' not to be suspicious.
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The first chance at a rec fishery and they are going to alot us 8,000 pieces?
Does it sound like being short changed when the natives have harvested 400,000 COUNTED fish plus what has been uncounted and poached!
what about our poor commercial guys who have boats/home/etc to pay for?
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Cheam has about 600 members 1 person per day (based on calorie intake) will only require 219,000 fish.
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But for health reason. Don't just rely on fish. :P
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The commies just had there entire season cancelled today (see articlebelow). I can see why they are upset and want to stage a protest fishery.
canada news
Thursday, Aug 25, 2005 Email this to a friend
print this page
B.C. Fraser River commercial fishery cancelled for year
VANCOUVER (CP) - Commercial fishermen who hoped for the chance at some of the sockeye salmon now returning to the Fraser River have received bad news.
A federal Fisheries Department official said that although the estimates of the number of sockeye entering the Fraser had increased this week to five million from an earlier forecast of 4.5 million, there will still be no non-native commercial fishery on the river in 2005.
Fisheries spokesman Don Radford said a native fishery for food, ceremonial and societal purposes - permitted under the Constitution - has taken place and future native fisheries will be allowed subject to conservation concerns.
The decision was made to cancel the commercial fishery because some rare sockeye species are now mixed in with the larger summer run and officials want to ensure the threatened sockeye make it to their B.C. Interior spawning grounds.
© The Canadian Press, 2005
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Rod- If DFO is being very open and helpful in the meetings you are attending re: maximising sport fishing opportunities, I would ask that the info pertaining to the salmon fishery opportunities be posted here for all to see. I am not questioning you Rod, I have just been involved in too many government 'consultations' not to be suspicious.
Blueback, there are two main problems that I've recognized in the communication part among anglers, and between DFO and anglers. First is misinformation (look at the above posts in this thread, numbers are flying left and right from no where and people take those numbers as gold which are then passed on). Second is the absence of a efficient medium to get that information out to the angling community.
I'll tackle the second one. Conference calls are going on almost on a daily basis between SFAC, SFAB and DFO. Staff of DFO cannot be at the waters at all time, so they rely on the anglers to bring the information to them (ie. fishing boundaries, lack of enforcement, high frequency of violation, low return of fish numbers, etc). By consulting with angling organizations, they can then make decisions on the management of our fisheries to accommodate everyone. That doesn't mean we'll always get what we want, the resource managers will make decisions mostly based on the findings of their biologists.
Official notices and other related information can be found in this section of the website:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/index.html
In the last few months, I'll say the local (Fraser Valley and Lower Mainland) DFO staff have do a very good job communicating with anglers who utilize these waters. Examples:
Information on adipose clipped sockeye salmon from Cultus Lake (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/050720.html)
Capilano weirs information (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/050713-1.html)
Cultus Lake sturgeon identification (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/050607.html)
DFO has also made an effort to get the First Nations and recreational anglers together for the Fraser Valley fisheries dialogue. DFO Chilliwack has financially supported the Vedder River cleanup program for the past two or three years. Just a week and a half ago, DFO Steveston was very quick on the response to my concerns on fishing line and bird life. There have already been some discussions about how we'll broadcast the information better next year, ie. information kiosk at local fishing piers, etc.
Just because the recreational sector did not get the 2 week sockeye allocation, it does not mean DFO does not care about recreational angling! It's unbelievable how much focus there is on this fishery and how people do not make themselves more informed instead of just waiting for the opening to come. There are definitely actions done by DFO and FNs that we disagree, and we make sure our concerns are heard through emails and phone. The sockeye fishery is shadowed by politics and staff at DFO are just as frustrated as you are. By going out there to harvest a few sockeye salmon illegally in the name of a protest, you will not be accomplishing anything except degenerating the relationship between anglers and DFO, the public and other sectors that also use the same resource.
Have you guys and gals heard about this other species called pink salmon? They will come in by the thousands each day next month. Time to go fishing. ;)
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Im really hoping that this protest fishery is a go, would be nice to see a combined sportsfisher, commercial protest. This is the only sure thing to raise attention with some of the people in Ottawa. Personally I cannot understand the faith you put in the dfo Rodney, seems like a dream world to me, where we write a bunch of letters and hope they do the right thing? Protest fisheries have done wonders for the East coast, and as far as making us look bad? it would be the complete opposite in my views it may just cause enough people to open their eyes and re examine dfo policy. The Cheam band would not of accompished anything if they stayed at home and wrote letters to the government asking for openings. Just my two cents.
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Well, prove me wrong, go for the protest fishery if you feel that it will do the fish and anglers some good. :)
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And what will be the gain of a protest fishery?
What is the point you are trying to get across?
Who will be the spokesman?
How will it look to the general public?
Will DFO actually listen?
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I agree with Rod. Protest fishery is not the answer. I believe the answer is class action law suit to be filed with the United Nations. What is happening is racial descrimination as implemented using the Canadian Constitution (BNA Act). Hence, we must work to repeal the parts of the constitution that are descriminatory and force to bring about amendments such that all Canadians be treated fairly and equitably. Just my $0.02.
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If no protest fishery, then what? FN & the Cheam didn't get their generous treatment by DFO or the Liberals for being civil. We should at least have a media-covered demonstration in front of FN openings, or all DFO premises. Net them all up so those cowards cannot go back to work next week. Sorry Rodney, sporties & commies' patience has run out.
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Even though I am now at Duncan playing in the Senior games in badminton I would set tight on this idea of a protest fishery.
I feel we have the public on our side after all that went on in the press and the TV reports that have put the Cheam band in a very bad light. My feeling if we go at this time with a protest we may loss all we have gained. I have sympathy for those that did not get a sockeye fishery and I guess I was right with my perdiction nearly 3 weeks ago that it would come down to the politics of it all to prevent a rec fishery
FOC was able to stall long enought that the fish were not in the river so no opening and now they can say the endangered runs are in so once again no opening.
Lets sit tight for this season on a protest and see what developes and I believe the SDA should be the lead on most of this. The way to help is make a donation, through the mail or drop some in a bucket at the sports shops.
The badminton is going ok won two matchs and just lost one 17-16 in singles. I had the serve at 16 and blew it. Just like losing a fish as you bend down to pick it up. Still in the running for the gold though. ;D ;D Got to go and play mixed doubles now. Will fish a bit of a fishing
report when time permits.
With the endangered runs in the Lower FN bands should be out of the water too.
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Rod, you stated:
FYI, for a rec opening to happen:
If the run size stays at 4.5M - no changes status quo
If run size is upgraded to 5.0M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 165k (rec share approx 8k. Comm share approx 157)
If run size is upgraded to 5.5M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 375k (rec share approx 19k Comm share approx 356)
Is this writen in stone...will dfo give us the opening if by tomorrow the run is estiomated at 5+ mil. where did these numbers come from?
I say give them a day and see what they and the numbers say tomorrow.
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a protest fishery is not the answer
yhe answer is to deny access to all public launches to commercial or
quasie commercial traffic
a welll organizied campaign could work wonders
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And what will be the gain of a protest fishery?
What is the point you are trying to get across?
Who will be the spokesman?
How will it look to the general public?
Will DFO actually listen?
Old Black Dog has the right idea here. None of his questions have effectively been answered. Most of what I've read here is all rage with neither form nor substance.
Don't get me wrong, after reading what I've had about recent fishing activities of the FN fishers I'm as frustrated as the next angler; however, it seems clear that this protest and (protests like it) are reactionary, emotional, juvenile, and counter productive.
I've been involved in A LOT of political activism for many years, and I've seen this type of thing before more times than I can count. And every single time I've seen it the outcome has inevitable been the same: frustration, dissolution, public outrage.
Don't think for a moment that the commercial fisherman are doing any of this for you as anglers. The commercial fishers have bigger problem than to worry about sportfishers. I urge you all not to throw your lots in with them.
Killing fish just to show that there are fish to be killed is patently ridiculous. The problem is that the subject is an emotional one and otherwise intelligent and insightful people (which you surely all are under less tense circumstances) have their anger and drive misdirected.
Many have questioned: "if not a protest fishery, then what?" This is the most important question, isn't it? "Doing Something" is not necessarily better than "Doing Nothing"--especially when that something is the frustrated, sensless and selfserving degradation of the fish stocks.
What else then? Well, here is my take:
-Protection of the fish stocks must be the singular focus of any action. There once were and hopefully will be again enough fish for all people to harvest responsibily
-There are people from ALL communities that have this priority and ALL these people must be involved. The only "We and They" and that has a place in this struggle is "we, the conservation minded" and "they, the selfserving resource destroyers".
-The target of any action should and must be the government, period. Not to sick them on the FN, but to protect the environment and its wild life from all destructive forces: mining, fishfarms, logging runoff, irresponsible anglers, destructive methods of commercial fishing, poor waste disposal, general over fishing and so on. The damage done by First Nations fishers is a mere drop in the bucket compared to all of the other causes of diminished fish stalks that one wonders why it is so overemphasized.
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we can make all the excuses we want to NOT get involved.
Point is... this is Canada, we are all tax paying , liscence buying, citizens and a good majority of us have a true concern for the resources in our country. However, we are often compared to sheep in our balking at taking direct non violent action in protest of governments decisions. I have no doubt that the scenarios being played out on local waters are a direct result of Federally mandated plans to appease the First Nations of this country. Being Metis and being denied any such rights in this province, my opportunities to harvest are restricted to Sport openings for hunting and fishing, not so in other provinces. I will rise to the call as a concerned angler.
I want you all to take a hard look at last years test set numbers versus this years test set numbers for the sockeye migration and DFO's actions based on those numbers. We got an opening last year.... we should have one this year.
Herein lies the real problem and those who will disagree may do so.
We are being denied access to this fishery because DFO and the RCMP do not have the werewithall nor the mandate to control FN harvest. If they open commercial and sport, FN's will not comply with ANY closures applied to thier fisheries. So, It is my belief that DFO is currently trying to negotiate a "closure to the FN season" and realize they can't "ORDER" the FN's to cease thier harvest nor can they "ASK" them to stop if they were to open the other sectors.
I fully realize that the recreation access to the Sockeye fishery in "non-tidal" Fraser is a relatively new fishery. It is but a drop in the bucket when compared to the multitude of other non restricted fishing opportunites we have in B.C.. However we all have to realize that actions like what we see now from FN's will continue to dictate our access to future opportunities in other water sheds as well as other resources such as hunting.
While I do not agree with the fish killing results of a protest fishery, I do not see any other means of rattling the cages of the powers that be.
Is every forum member here who comments on these topics willing to gather together, take a day or two off work, pay for fuel and ferry costs and show up on the legislature lawns in protest of the total lack of control that this province has on the FN fishery??
.... I just don't see that happening
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*shakes his head*
Sure lets all run out and support a Commey protest fishery. :D :D
You guys are unbelievable. ::)
If DFO had opened socks up tomorrow and also let the commercial boys go in ... you'd all be running to floss show this weekend, only to be bitching and moaning come Sunday night how the commercial nets are like vacuum cleaners and sucked the river dry. And then it's "Oh whoa is me" all over again. :-[ :-[
Rod thanx for the post trying to inform these knuckleheads. I've been trying to tell you ....Your sock fest is NOT happening, live with it, go catch some pinks, gets ready for the Vedder ... life goes on. In between these times, sport angling groups will do what's required to forward and alleviate concerns with the FN harvests. Your letters and
*slips on flak jacket*
Ok fire away. :P
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The problem is quite simple, WE THE SPORTS ANGLERS ARE NOT ORGANIZED.
Until we either join a group or set one up we are nothing, just a bunch of people who talk about how it should be.
So, join a group that is doing something, NOW!
SDA, BCFDF, BCWF are trying, not sure of any others!
GET INVOLVED NOW, before it is all gone!
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Bantam.... shake your head again
this may be only about a simple opening for many folks. The principal issue here is that FN "dictates" to DFO how and when they will fish. DFO HAS NOT held them accountable for the exact numbers of thier harvest to date AND FN's have been and currently are BREAKING THE LAWS that we ALL are governed by, with impunity I might add.
If you don't find this unnaceptable and are not willing to lend your efforts to the struggle, content to sit on the sidelines and mock those who dare speak out, shame on you you
you are behaving like the poor little sheep that the feds hope you will, ba'aa'aaa
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Is this writen in stone...will dfo give us the opening if by tomorrow the run is estiomated at 5+ mil. where did these numbers come from?
I say give them a day and see what they and the numbers say tomorrow.
The information was copied and pasted from an email I received from the Fraser River Panel/DFO.
If the run size reaches what were listed in the criteria, yes an opening would be granted. Do you think the run size will spike up by 0.5 million overnight? ;)
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this may be only about a simple opening for many folks. The principal issue here is that FN "dictates" to DFO how and when they will fish. DFO HAS NOT held them accountable for the exact numbers of thier harvest to date AND FN's have been and currently are BREAKING THE LAWS that we ALL are governed by, with impunity I might add.
allwaysfishin ... prove it? Where's your proof FN dictates DFO? Do you hold some documented memo? At best you, like many other ignoramus's here just speculate IYOO's what is transpiring. Last time I looked ... all those FN openings were Supreme court approved. Not sure what laws you have evidence to take to court other than what DFO has on it's '05 file.
If you care to play the Piped Piper ... have at it ... when the six o'clock camera's start rolling ... peek over your shoulder and check how many followers you'll have from here. :o I always enjoy a good 6 o'clock news. ;D
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The problem is quite simple, WE THE SPORTS ANGLERS ARE NOT ORGANIZED.
Here is a question.
To those who are all for a protest, have you:
- Joined the Fraser Valley Salmon Society this year?
- Donated money to the Sportfishing Defence Alliance?
You people realize that when I attend the SFAC meetings, I do not represent Fishing with Rod, instead I represent the Chilliwack/Vedder River Cleanup Coalition? Your posts on here give me a better understanding on what the angling community is saying, but I will not be voicing your ideas at the meetings. This forum is a great way to exchange information etc, but that's about it. By whining about a fishing closure is useless and not constructive. Like OBD said, be organized! Join an organization that voices your interests.
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FYI, for a rec opening to happen:
- If the run size stays at 4.5M - no changes status quo
- If run size is upgraded to 5.0M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 165k (rec share approx 8k. Comm share approx 157)
- If run size is upgraded to 5.5M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 375k (rec share approx 19k Comm share approx 356)
at this point, does these numbers really mean anything? considering they've failed to monitor FN catches, why bother with statistics? especially if they don't use it for the good of the sockeye stocks?
i don't necessarily want to kill a sockeye to get my point across, but i wouldn't mind bonking an MLA or two ::)
a protest is necessary. not so much to retain fish, but to retain fair legislation and mandate.
civil unrest (not referring to violence) is the only thing that governments respond to. history proves that.
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Yes, why can't the natives eat pink? Didn't their ancestors eat pinks through out history? They may have a pink opening for them, but at home they probably eat sockeyes much more between the two. Why DFO gives 100% of their food quota on sockeyes, and give us, the tax payers, the license payers, the ones contributing to the building of this nation, zero sockeyes? And now, DFO are telling you all second-class citizens to catch second-class fish, while they allow the natives to catch more of the so called remaining % of sockeyes?
So natives eat top-quality food fish & we eat fish that they spit out. So our government is saying it is ok for you tax payers to eat pinks but not the natives. It is their heritage to eat pricey & tasty salmon, and ours to eat spit-outs. Some may say Pinks are good. Of course they are. If so, why can't natives fill half of their so called 'food & ceremonial quota' with pinks, so that other user groups can share some harvest of sockeyes?
By the way, the native claiming on CKNW that he kills 50,000 socs should have an income topping half a million for working a few weeks. What on earth is happening to this country? Is 'white-guilt' so overwhelming in our society that this kind of racist crap is allowed to happen? You & I sweat all days for years & years to make a fraction of that. No wonder we see some pricey crafts used in their so called 'food fishery'.
Can't you guys see the wrongs in our government? Bantam, you ought to be ashamed of yourself that you don't even see such inequality in the treatment of us average Canadians by our elected government in fishery management, and elect to insult fellow members at this kind of times, as if you are over-joyed at others hard feelings. Most people, me included, are upset not just because of non-retention of sockeyes, but because it is tough to swallow the inequality being dealt to us by our elected government as 2nd-class citizens.If you are so in line with SCR & their cause & get upset with posters on this site about BB, why not just stay there. Every one of your posts is aimed at bashing and insulting to our posting members, including Rod & FWR itself. I appeal to the mods to censor this member's posts or to delete posts that are obviously trying to stir up trouble instead of providing useful information. I see the same mentality as Riverwatcher & gangs doing to the posts that Rod & Chris made in FishBC. Some people's are so biased that they don't see any merits except to bash & trash at every opportunity.
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twice something has been said here that I think needs addressing and frankly one of the younger guys on the board (Biffchan) was the only guy to show some thoughtfulness here regarding his comment on FN and their social issues.
I dont know how many of you have actually spent time in a FN community that depends on the resources to survive. I had a buddy run the police station/program on flores island, off the cost from tofino. The settlement is called Ahousat (sorry bad spelling) and if you don't log you fish or you do both. I have spent time there on 4 occasions. Every time a one of their boats would come in from a fish, a message would go out on over the CB's/shortwave radios that everyone uses (opposed to the telephone) and everyone would pack down to the docks and take (not buy) what ever they needed from the catch.
Funfish and others have referred to a guy that "killed 50,000 socs"... should have an income topping half a million for working a few week. I imagine he did sell some of that catch, but I am also sure that that catch benefitted far more than he and his immediate family...those fish I think would have been caught at the benefit of the extended community. So lets keep it in perspective.
When DFO is so concerned about socks, why not spread the pressure to pinks and chums (ie FN food fishing pressure)...I just don't get it either.
This is a hugely complex issue which must be very tricky to manage. I agree DFO is doing a horrible job. DFO is run by poticial agendas and frankly that is its biggest problem.
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Hi guys,I'm a long time lurker but had to sign up to post at least this one question.
FYI, for a rec opening to happen:
- If the run size stays at 4.5M - no changes status quo
[li]If run size is upgraded to 5.0M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 165k (rec share approx 8k. Comm share approx 157)[/li]
[li]If run size is upgraded to 5.5M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 375k (rec share approx 19k Comm share approx 356)[/li]
[/list]
Is this writen in stone...will dfo give us the opening if by tomorrow the run is estiomated at 5+ mil. where did these numbers come from?
I say give them a day and see what they and the numbers say tomorrow.
The information was copied and pasted from an email I received from the Fraser River Panel/DFO.
If the run size reaches what were listed in the criteria, yes an opening would be granted. Do you think the run size will spike up by 0.5 million overnight? ;)
The Fraser Panel met on August 24, 2005 to receive an update on the progress of
the return of Fraser sockeye and pink salmon. As indicated in FN0613 issued
August 24, 2005, the Fraser Panel adopted an Early Summer run size of 400,000
and a Summer Run size of 5.0M.
Am I mistaken or was the run size not upgraded to what they told Rod was needed for an opening BEFORE they said no opening??!!??
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I was just about to post the same question!
My personal view/hope is that they announce an opening this weekend....as it seems DFO's own numbers ALL READY SUPPORT A SPORTS OPENING!!!!! (and those numbers are now 2 days old)
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i may be wrong but as far as nutritional value as a food fish, pound for pound pink salmon is higher in essential "pure" protiens. I watched a show recently that listed pink salmon as belonging to a group of foods that have extremely high food /nutrition value as a "staple" protien source.
however it is well known that pink is not prefered table fare for most who have tasted (or sold :D ) sockeye salmon. It boils down to market value and the FN's on the Fraser know this well, why catch pinks to line the belly when sox and springs can line both the belly and the pocket book.
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We all hold people and groups to certain levels of accountablilty. Sometime we are justified, sometimes we are not. I believe that right now most of us are holding dfo accountable for what we feel should be something different....ie we feel there should have been a sports opening or we feel FN has had too high an allocation etc. This is problematic in that WE don't set the mandates and truely we cant expect much more from them than what they are mandated to do.
Does anyone know what DFO's mandate/goals/mission is on the fraser or in the pacific region?
I spent the last 1.5 hours trying to understand what DFO is MEANT to be doing...this is where we can truly hold their feet to the flames and hold them accountable.
This is really all I found regarding their mission/goals:
Principles (for the Aboriginal Fishing Treaty - AFT: http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/tapd/afs_e.htm )
* Provide for the effective management of the Aboriginal fishery;
* Improve the conservation, management and enhancement of the resource;
* Enable Aboriginal people to participate in the management of their fisheries; and,
* Provide a stable, predictable, profitable fishery for the benefit of all Canadians.
One other HUGE driving force in their management scheme is the Sparrow decision and how the courst said FN must get priority access to resource for food fish (food, social, and cerimonial use).
These are the DFO's drivers in the management scheme for the fraser river (maybe other fisheries too).
A protest fishery...whether sport or comercial needs be well organized otherwise you will be charge and have no leg to stand on. The comercail protest that took place in 2003 (i think) was successful because the commercial boys being shut out during FN commercial fishing was deemed:" inconsistent with the equality provisions of the “Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms”.
If DFO doesnt do its job are each one of you willing to put your name and $200 on the line if you get charged?
I think DFO is doing horribly...but lets evaluate them based on their own "Principles" (as taken fro the their web site):
* Provide for the effective management of the Aboriginal fishery;
* Improve the conservation, management and enhancement of the resource;
* Provide a stable, predictable, profitable fishery for the benefit of all Canadians.
-DFO does not have any control the native fishermen of this province
-DFO has not eliminated poaching from the fraser, its still at an unmanageble level
-DFO has not designed a system to count FN food fish effectively (as Rod vidoetaped FN fish unloading fish away from the counters and DFO counting sites)
-DFO mismanagement caused a disaster last year, their solutin this year...totaly (so far shut out 2 sectors)
-DFO has not provide a stable, predictable , profitable fishery for "all Canadians"
based on this I think that if we could show a sports fishery that doesnt impact the stock or has marginal impact and that this fishery didnt interfer with DFO's #1 mandate (providing FN with priority access to food fish) then a protest could be beneficial.
Can this protest be used to prove DFO's incapacity to the courts and this country...I think so but I am not exactly sure how and I am not sure if us proving DFO's incapacity justifies us breaking the law (unlike the “R. v. Kapp et al.” where the commercial guys proved a conflict in management and our Constitution.
This leaves us on some very shaky ground.
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Spoonman, that info came a couple of days before this other one I posted yesterday:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=7673.msg69801#msg69801
Basically the late summers have arrived, and are overlapping with the summers.
Good info in the last post Gooey.
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I guess people just do not see the big picture. Nothing can change until First Nations (FN) gets declared as a conquered nation. The DFO can charge them of illegal fishing if they want, the Canadian court can convict them if they want. At the end of it all, FN just has to appeal the rulings in the International Court and it will be over turned. This is why all the charges were being dropped. This saves the Canadian Government from international embarrassment.
So what is happening now is just that the DFO and the Canadian Government is pretending to be in control of the fishery. All that they are in control of are the people that are subject to Canadian Law (every one in this country except the FN).
What is the purpose of membership to various Conservation organizations? ???
All that you will be doing is throwing your money away on something that you will never ever going to have any rights to.
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DFO sets "food fish" quotas on what basis? Historical harvest rates or actual need? It could be that with historical rates down, they need to move to a new model. Do you have any info on how the set the quotas?
I'll ask my friend who set sockeye quotas in previous years...maybe he has some insight. What he did say is that when he was on the pannel, 800,000 fish was around the number they used too (that was several years back).
You talked of a ROE fishery...I know they do it for herring to ship to japan. Who fishes for salmon roe, what market doe it go to, how much money does it generate (I assume its not a "sustanence fishery"), what species do they target...any detailes there ?
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DFO currently grants FN fishing opening by time not by number of fish.
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"DFO currently grants FN fishing opening by time not by number of fish." no thats incorrect BWI.
DFO set quotas based on escapment to the spawning grounds ie conservation as the number #1 priority...that is done by run size estimates and managing the surplus there of.
Once a surplus is determined, it is then allocated out (in pieces - not time on the water) to #1 aboriginal food fisheries and then somewhere behind that (way behind that this year) comes Sports and the Comercial sectors.
My question to Rod is what measure are used when determining what the FN food fishery is?
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the term FN food fishery and ceremonial fishery is just a smoke screen to justify the number of fish, allocated to FN.
it is what it is, under any category.
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I know you are right about FN is allocated a percentage of estimated returning stock, and counting stations are suppose to be there
to make sure over harvest does not occur for the fishing time granted.
But we all know salmon comes through Fraser River in different number at different time.
The inability to monitor number of fish caught, can lead to a vast miscalculation. (fishes end up 'missing')
But look at how many FN fishing boats been unloaded at non-designated areas and there is no CO, DFO, RCMP... to prosecute them?
Such as the boat launch Rodney and Chris photographed at Ladner, that park is less than 10 minutes away from RCMP office.
Unless officials can effectively monitor number of fish caught, they are granting FN fisheries by time not by number of fish.
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havent read the whole thread but all i can say is that killing more fish will only worsen teh run in years to come. there are other ways to protest that would get just as much attention and public interest without killing fish.
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Sit-in, and fasting?
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I know you are right about FN is allocated a percentage of estimated returning stock, and counting stations are suppose to be there
to make sure over harvest does not occur for the fishing time granted.
But we all know salmon comes through Fraser River in different number at different time.
The inability to monitor number of fish caught, can lead to a vast miscalculation. (fishes end up 'missing')
But look at how many FN fishing boats been unloaded at non-designated areas and there is no CO, DFO, RCMP... to prosecute them?
Such as the boat launch Rodney and Chris photographed at Ladner, that park is less than 10 minutes away from RCMP office.
Unless officials can effectively monitor number of fish caught, they are granting FN fisheries by time not by number of fish.
agreed. what's written on paper does not reflect what is happening in real life. lack of monitoring and supervision will only render (future) forecasts, useless.
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Seems like there are alot of members that devote alot of time and have good ideas for improvement to our fisheries management.
Has anyone every considered applying for employment with DFO? or better yet, run for political positions that can influence our fisheries management.
Despite having to face the internal culture of an agency, it still seems reasonable to try and change things from the INSIDE (if you have the expertise).
Just my $.02s
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Sit-in, and fasting?
No. but it is not logical to protest somethinging by destroying what you are protesting for.
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So when they head-faked us with 5.0 mil =opening was there any mention of the overlapping runs and the 15% harvest limit on lates? And should they not have KNOWN where the harvest rate on lates was BEFORE they dangled the carrot?With test fishing taking enough fish to contribute significantly to that 15% you would think they would be on top of the #s and%s and genetics .And what are fisheries to address outstanding requirements.? Sorry but it seems either they really don't know what they are doing or they have known what they were going to do for a long time.
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Sit-in, and fasting?
No. but it is not logical to protest somethinging by destroying what you are protesting for.
I agree. Since fisherie openings is the bread and butter for commercial guys. I do believe a sit-in and fasting is kind of on the right topic.
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Anyone care to start a pool?
I say the summer runs will come in at 7.5 million in the end.
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Anyone care to start a pool?
I say the summer runs will come in at 7.5 million in the end.
doesn't matter at this point in time. even if it was to fall true, the late summer run will over lap with protected stocks. its done.
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[
FYI, for a rec opening to happen:
- If the run size stays at 4.5M - no changes status quo
- If run size is upgraded to 5.0M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 165k (rec share approx 8k. Comm share approx 157)
- If run size is upgraded to 5.5M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 375k (rec share approx 19k Comm share approx 356)
apparently these are now incorrect numbers. 6.0m and no sport or commy fishing will take place. Not really sure what to think. FN still get to continue fishing. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
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I predicted earlier this year that DFO will predict a bumper crop of returning sockeyes, then lower the actual count due to hot temperatures and after everything is said and done will say that more sockeyes returned to their rivers than previously forecasted. How am I doing so far ? :D
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I predicted earlier this year that DFO will predict a bumper crop of returning sockeyes, then lower the actual count due to hot temperatures and after everything is said and done will say that more sockeyes returned to their rivers than previously forecasted. How am I doing so far ? :D
hey pretty good. now you just have play the stock market ;D
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I just spoke with a local shop...if there is a protest fishery, the owner said we could advertise it there.
He said some very important things regarding the media...if a protest does happen and we arent organized and if we send out the wrong message to the media...sports fishers are screwed.
We need to be calm and decisive...We need one represnetative/spokeperson.
I am thinking I would like to BBQ a sockeye for dinner sunday night...anyone else hungering for sockeye?
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Bubba wants to know if it comes with a salad, a dinner roll and desert. Oh and a nice beverage to wash it down. :D
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i want to make it VERY clear that I am in no way trying to be the piper or the organizer of a sport protest. At Berry's there is support of the idea and the reasons this has come to a head. I have been contacted by members of the commercial sector and have spent time on the phone today with a couple other shops in the valley.
Un officially there is to be a commercial protest, this sunday, in the lower fraser from the portmann to sandheads and in the marine approaches. I have also heard that there is a major commercial protest being organized out of cambell river area as well.
I have been inundated with calls of support and my email box is overflowing with responses to DFO's behavior and lack of control.
Being the voice of berry's fishing report ( 604 638 5899) I have become the guy everyone is calling to get the goods on this situation. I WILL NOT PRETEND TO HAVE A HANDLE ON THIS. I will only relay information as I get it.
I will tell you this,
there is general support for a tidal and non tidal recreation protest fishery,this sunday, who will organize this... well , no one person has stepped to the plate yet, I will be in Uculet sunday spankin Hali's so.....
my personal feelings on this are:
1) any person killing a sockeye by recreation methods needs only to KILL ONE to make a point of protest.
2) this person must be willing to not "hide" his catch, thus truly showing it as a protest action.
3) this person must be willing to be arrested for this action and to succumb peacefully to the authorities
declaring the fish was killed in protest.
4) anyone who declares that they are harvesting sockeye in protest and continues to kill more than
ONE fish is poaching in my opinion.
anyhow, DFO's notice today did state that though they will revisit the possibility of a recreation opening next week, that even though the run is continually being upgraded in numbers, a recreation opening is highly unlikely. The next meeting is of course after this sunday.
dangling the carrot again is all I see in DFO's message today, in hopes that folks will hold off from activism in the face of a "possible but highly unlikely" opening next week.
Whatever people decide to do this weekend... be smart, be safe, and remember if the media is out there, each one of you is a representative for the sportsfishers cause. If you kill a sockeye in protest.... please let it just be ONE.
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My sympathy goes to the fish that are ready to complete the most celebratory part of their life cycle.
After all the disputes between four groups, the true victim as I said since the beginning, is the fish.
Anyways, just got a hold of Phil from the BC Fisheries Coalition, the protest fishery by commercial fishermen has been postponed to Wednesday as they want to give DFO a chance to fix the mess.
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well, I was on the river today and nothing but fish boats with nets all over the place what were they fishing for?
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spending to much time on the oean there ?
you witnesssed a full blown native food fishery in action
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just finished watching ctv news. they had the chief of the cheam band admitting to, its members fishing outside of their designated openings and then selling sockeyes illegally. he added, other bands are also partaking in these illegal activities. still no representatives of DFO have gone on record to address this serious matter.
further more warnings to the public were given to remind us that buying fresh sockeye, is illegal.
really? i guess i should call the cops to raid saveon foods, safeway, and superstore.. they all advertise fresh sockeye 'for sale' :o :o
also looks like the protest movement is starting to pick up steam. organizers are giving dfo one last chance to make things right. civil unrest is inevitable.
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I'm sticking my neck out to predict a commercial opening. DFO always cave in whenever there is a protest.
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As to the Comment about SaveOn and SafeWay those fish are from Alaska! Not from around here.
C.F
fair enough, but they were very vague in their criteria. most consumers don't know the difference and the stores don't specify where the fish were caught.
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fair enough, but they were very vague in their criteria. most consumers don't know the difference and the stores don't specify where the fish were caught.
Most media don't know either. ;)
This whole situation that we are in right now, is often fueled by misinformation or the absence of information. Since the beginning for this year's FN fishery, we have urged DFO to provide us information on how the FN fishery is managed, who the monitors are, what are the quotas given, and the process of reaching that agreed quotas. I think tension would be eased a lot more if the information is more readily available to the public. The angling community isn't that much better either. There isn't a centralized communication tool that delivers message effectively to all anglers. We are not organized, as OBD has mentioned earlier. We are fragmented by our fishing preferences, etc. A lot of time we express our wishes based on what we see and hear, instead of hard facts and scientific findings. A 20lb chinook at the river can turn into a 40lb tyee by the time the words reach the tackle store. People need to calm down a bit and identify exactly what the problems are.
During last Tuesday's dialogue session with the Fraser Valley First Nations, Cheam's Chief Sid Douglas (who you saw on CTV last night) walked in late and announced that they are no longer involved with the dialogue sessions due to the negative publicity we have given them in the media and walked out. On a more positive note, we still have three bands who are very willing to see the issues resolved with the Sportfishing sector, they are Yale, Chehalis and Skwah.
The reported observations on the Lower Fraser FN fishery that Chris, Nina and I made last weekend have been circulated by email. I've been told by one sector of DFO that the findings are false and I will be provided with information how these fisheries are managed next week. I look forward to the reading. I have also been contacted by another sector of DFO, who is very interested to go over the photos and videos that we have captured.
The problem is not that easy. Shutting out the FN fishery is not the answer. We have three sectors that utilize one resource. Understandings and compromises have to be developed to satisfy all groups. I firmly believe that by pointing out the problems and pressuring the management to provide answers and solutions to those problems, we will reach that ideal system to accommodate everyone without damaging the resource.
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Where and when is the sportfishing protest going to take place?
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As most of you know I have an ex psc panel member that I have been talking with. He has been very insightful despite the fact that he has been off the panel for several years.
One thing he asked me was who the recreational fishing representative was on the PSC panel. We are supposed to have (and at one time did) have representation on this panel. Does anyone know if we have a representative adressing our interest on the panel? If so who ary they, how can we communicate with them?
Another huge point he made is really the FN fishery is as segrigated within itself as is the FN,commercial and sport sectors. I asked him why would they have a marine opening if they are concerned with interception of late run fish...why not have all the openings up river? Apparently FN fisheries are allotted based on historical access levels. as an example the cowichans probably fished the lower river in majority...now the cheams apperrently dont want other bands fishing that part of the river as its their historical territory. DFIO is then forced to allow various tribes to fish in only certain areas and depending on that tribe and its equipment, there could be further complications to where they can fish.
This is a hugely complex issue that revolves (IMHO) mostly around the FN fishery management. Just like the FN hides most of the fish they catch and it slips thru the cracks,....I think the cock ups we see with DFO are the tip of the iceberg - i think they hide a vast majority of the political and burauecratic bs too.
Where to go from here tho? Thats the million dollar question. But Rod was right in saying more disclosure and greater transpanancy would go a long way.
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after reading all the comments and seeing how helpless sporties are to defend our rights of access, I will be fishing this year from this day forth as an aboriginal (Metis), guaranteed my right to harvest for food by the canadian constitution AND the recent Powley decision, regardless of wether the Canmpbell government chooses to recognize the Supreme court Powley decision. I have to date this year killed two fish, 1 a 37 lbs red spring and 2 a 18 lbs redspring. No where near enough for my sustanance needs for this winter.
I urge ALL fellow Metis to stand and excercise thier rights in this Province.
And I urge all sporties to rise and defend thier rights as well.
I will be taking an undisclosed sockeye and spring catch and will be prepared to face this countries courts to defend my right of harvest, as both a sport fisher and a Status carrying Metis.
This past week has taught me a lot about the status quo in this country, sometimes I'm ashamed to be canadian...... this is one of those times.
In a country that force feeds it's citizens multi culturalsim and equality, these are sad times.
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Yesterday, I went targeting springs in a upper Fraser bar. There were soooo many sockeyes, hooked, jumped, rolled, everywhere for the whole time I stayed. They were way, way, way more than the last few years. A green rod below me could not cast properly, still learning to cast far. Most of his casts were within 30 ft from shore. He was into sockeyes non-stopped the whole afternoon. I tried to tell him to cast further to avoid them, but he couldn't cast far nevertheless. By the way, he had 3 pinks on the beach when I left. Every one is following DFO's ruling to release sockeyes, mostly in the water too. But it is surely sad to see law abiding sporties denied the abundant sockeyes while FN are the only ones entitled to catch these fish, legally or illegally. It angers me to see such inequality & unfairness in this free, great nation of ours when it comes to fishery management. :( What does it take to change DFO's unfair approach. How many years will it take to right the wrongs in their corrupted approach? A FN member killing 50,000 socs, worth the entire catch total of the sporties in a regular season, and yet none of us is allowed one sockeye. Why? Why such an injustice and inequality is allowed to happen. Fishermen, make your vote count in the next election!!!
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AN UPDATE TO FUTURE INEVITABLE SPORT PROTEST.
Though at this point I am not taking the lead on this, I am in contact with those who are.
Details will be revealed this coming week either monday or tuesday.
Berry's Bait telephone report line will be providing information in the coming days (604 638 5899)
PLEASE TAKE NO ACTION UNTILL AN ORGANIZED EFFORT HAS BEEN PUT TOGETHER.
I will tell you this, it's in the works as we speak.
Those from SDA or other groups representing Fraser fishing opportunities (and other fisheries) may contact Mike Berry at 604 273 5901 to express thoughts on this.
you may also email to berry@berrysbait.com
I am not sure who else out there is providing an information service such as Berry's is, but for the time being the fishing report that we pay to have availlable for anglers to access for free will be a source of straight up info during this conflict. Pass the number on and get informed.
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So, you are really going to look stupid if you do not address these questions!
And what will be the gain of a protest fishery?
What is the point you are trying to get across?
Who will be the spokesman?
How will it look to the general public?
Will DFO actually listen?
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So, you are really going to look stupid if you do not address these questions!
And what will be the gain of a protest fishery?
What is the point you are trying to get across?
Who will be the spokesman?
How will it look to the general public?
Will DFO actually listen?
1. A protest fishery is just that, a protest of the unfair & unjustified fishery management pratice of DFO.
2. The point to get across is that the other sectors beside FN are extremely unhappy about the biased approach of DFO management style in which one group (FN) gets to fish all they want without proper monitoring and accountability. DFO fails to act to protect the fish (when they declared stock was low & turned around letting FN drfit netted sockeyes weeks & weeks), and fails to provide a fair opportunity for the other sectors to fish when sockeyes show up in much larger number.
3. Who will be the spokesman? Hopefully some person of influence will lead the charge.
4. The public should sympathize with the sports & commercial sectors when they are informed of the truth, the unfairness, and the ugliness of 'food fish' exploitation. We should inform the public that ordinary citizens should be entitled to fish when there is evident of surplus stock. It is time people should be informed that 'white guilt' does not justify all the greed in the FN fishery.
5. Will DFO listen? Does that matter? It is a protest of our anger & displeasure of their polciy. It is the public pressure that they will have to deal with. If they ignore pulbic pressure, then hopefully, it will reflect in the next election. Local liberal MPs will have to face the consequence of turning a deaf year to public sentiment.
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So, you are really going to look stupid if you do not address these questions!
And what will be the gain of a protest fishery?
What is the point you are trying to get across?
Who will be the spokesman?
How will it look to the general public?
Will DFO actually listen?
1) it'll give 'faces' to the voice of those who are seeking justice.
2) it will attract media attention and bring awareness to the canadian public of the current crisis and allow them to see and hear (first hand), the lack of government response to our every growing concerns.
3) there will be more than enough, well articulated spokesmen, who will rise to the occasion. these protests are being carefully orchestrated to maxime its effects while minimizing any negative impacts.
4) the goal is to be 'passive resistant', yet defiant. public awareness is the key, facts will be laid out and the corruption will be exposed. a 'black eye' in the government's view, might be just enough to have them address their mandate and legislation.
5) "knock on wood" ... if things don't work out peacefully, i think the public's perception would be based more towards the dfo's lack of accountablity and their favouritism towards special interest groups.
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Good questions with some good answers.
I'm still waiting for people to answer my questions from page three (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=7670.msg69798#msg69798).
allwaysfishin, had a brief chat with one of the directors of SDA tonight. SDA fully supports a protest, but a kill fishery during the protest, no.
"I see no reason not to join in a protest if we can get one together but certainly not to go out and kill fish. Numerous people will use this as an excuse to take their sockeye and really could give a rip about what the future holds. These people who want to do this need to join a fishing club which gives them representation to the government. They could also give money to the SDA or plan to attend the fundraiser on Nov. 18th."
Keep in mind the late summers are starting to show up in the river, I dislike the idea of sockeye retention during a protest as well.
With the current openings of the pink and chinook fisheries, and a no-kill protest on the sockeye fishery, I am skeptical to see many would actually show up. ::)
It's the weekend, so information is not being relayed around effectively. I'll be getting more stuff on Monday I'm sure, I'll do my best to drop by the shop the next couple of days to discuss.
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allwaysfishin, had a brief chat with one of the directors of SDA tonight. SDA fully supports a protest, but a kill fishery during the protest, no.
With the current openings of the pink and chinook fisheries, and a no-kill protest on the sockeye fishery, I am skeptical to see many would actually show up. ::)
:-\ A no kill protest fishery is going to prove what? If it is to bring attention to the (no sockeye for sportmen) then I really doubt anyone, inc DFO will even show up. Last year all the protest fishery did was give Bill a waste of time. If 50 people show up and kill 1 fish each, then DFO will take notice as well as the media. Why do you think the commercial guys are doing it. They are going to kill more fish in one set then all the sports would in a day. Just my 2cents.....
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A no kill fishery tells DFO and the public that we intend to achieve conservation of the stocks, but we are angry about that the entire annual harvest being allocated to the First Nation fishery.
The protests held last year met their objectives, that was to finally grab the minister's attention. Meetings were held, an enquiry was held, as a result DFO enforcement has been increased on the Fraser River.
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count me in we all got to stick together on this even if it is a no kill protest :'( :'(
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I'm sorry Rod, but what exactly was accomplished from last year? All I can see is it is getting worse, not better. With all the won court battles and the media coverage and fellow anglers talking to anyone and everyone. Still nothing. Im not asking for an opening for soxs, just an explanation why WE cant kill, and the government/FN are killing complete runs........ Maybe everyone should know how many soxs made there way to cultas this year. I heard that DFO was expecting 26 fish. I wonder how many of those were caught in the ocean by the governments boats and how many were caught by FN nets.... hmm
I was talking with a friend the other day ( he used to sit on the salmon board) He reminded me all the government is interested in is sucking the Fraser dry...... You will all see just what I am talking about within 10 years. Only we will be too late to do anything about it. The runs are getting smaller due to over fishing by both the government and FN. There are NO other reasons or scientific explanations. I have not seen any fish floating down the river due to high water temps or parasites in the last couple of years, with the exception of large sturgeon dead due to unknown reasons (most likely polution).
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Comparing to last year's fishery, this year is a lot worse?
What has been achieved in 2005, since last year's protest:
- Establishing an open dialogue with the Fraser Valley First Nations by holding several meetings.
- Bringing media attention to the illegal nettings that are being conducted during closures.
- Being informed by DFO enforcement on a regular basis regarding seizing of nets and charging violators.
I say DFO has done a lot more this year to make improvement, but there's still room for more.
On a related note, please click here (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/file/050829.doc) for a SDA letter to the minister regarding the Fraser River sockeye fishery mismanagement.
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Interesting and strongly worded letter by the SDA. Were the escapement figures that Bill mentions set at the beginnig of the season or are they the result of the late timing of the runs and the desire to protect endangered runs? if it is the former, it boggles the mind why this would be changed given the consistent run strength over the last ten cycles.
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Rod, I respect your thoughts and opinions regarding many issues. But I fail to see the impact a protest can have without the harvesting of some fish.
Should there be one person (like last year) that harvests a fish? They will just throw the ticket away and sweep it under the rug. Yes last years protest did have some positive effects (I personally feel enforcement is up this year) but if they throw the ticket away again thus keeping it out of the courts and media then IMHO that only reduces the possible effectiveness of a protest.
They could not ignore 50 fishermen harvesting a soc or 2 and I doubt they could justify throwing away 50 tickets.
If a protest does happen, I dont want to go out and do C&R on socs, I can't afford a ticket, so would my pressence there (to show solodarity) add strengthtot he cause? What do you suggest?
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you dont have to bonk a sox just attending the protest and showing your support is a good idea i understand your frustration as im just as peed off as all the others but if we all acted like the natives do then the whole salmon species will be lost. its up to the sportsman to protect what we have left . and maybe one day the dfo and the natives will pull their heads out of the sand and wake up. ;D ;D
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Yes, I strongly support a protest fishery. This government is so screwed with their racial based allocation. All their talk about sporties or commies endangering rare late runs is just garbage unless they shut down FN fishery still shamelessly allowed to go on with drift nets weeks after weeks, uncounted and unmonitored, and after 600,000 fish. They will do anything to appease FN to avoid public embarrassment by making all their fishings legal. Shame on them to tell us they worry about this stock or that stock. Just empty words in face of the huge numbers of fish harvested by FN daily (oh ya, by government test fisheries too, and who gets those fish?). They don't have the gut to tell people the truth - DFO is scared to death about FN, period. Well, let's make all Liberal MPs pay in next election, so then we will see which group holds the voting power.
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Perhaps a protest in the order of blockading something for the day?......like the Fraser river docks or the First Narrows with sport boats..... that sure would get the feds attention...and national media exposure too. And no sockeye need perish.
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Perhaps a protest in the order of blockading something for the day?......like the Fraser river docks or the First Narrows with sport boats..... that sure would get the feds attention...and national media exposure too. And no sockeye need perish.
BINGO ! SHUT THE FRASER DOWN FOR A WHILE ... GOOD MEDIA ATTENTION AND ZERO FISH KILLED !
cj.
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as a part time employee of the local waterfront (surrey docks and delta port) you will not win any favors from those that are employed there by blockading there place of employment over a fisheries issue. There are literally hundreds of those employees who are sportfishers.... I fail to see the reasoning behind even bring that one up.
however blockading a "meaningfull" location may produce some result.
problem is no group is heading the call for sportfisher activism. the sit tight and wait and see, sheeplike mentality seems to be winning the day.
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;D i agree but not the docks or somewhere that people are working try blocking the area where fns are fishing ;D ;D ;D ;D we also need media attention thats for sure the public only sees that the fns are always getting the bum deal. what about us guys who put alot of money into the economy buying tackle and rods and not to mention the licencense that seems to get pricier each year.
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Yes blockade entrance into FN reserve. So they can't get out. But it is legal?
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::) do the fns worry about what is legal
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what about setting up a bunch of boats at anchor in the drift net lanes? Maybe drop some spin n glos for springs to make it a little less obvious...maybe not!
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as a part time employee of the local waterfront (surrey docks and delta port) you will not win any favors from those that are employed there by blockading there place of employment over a fisheries issue.
They don't seem to care who they inconvenience when they are on the picket lines.
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what about setting up a bunch of boats at anchor in the drift net lanes? Maybe drop some spin n glos for springs to make it a little less obvious...maybe not!
I like your idea Gooey. All sport fishermen with boats should blockade the river whe DFO open it for the FN and close for the sporties. This would be legal since the court thrown out FNs' maneuvering against such things.
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I believe there is a general boating regulation that requires that more maneuverable boats move for less (i.e. one that's netting has the right of way).
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I believe there is a general boating regulation that requires that more maneuverable boats move for less (i.e. one that's netting has the right of way).
;D good one. something for protestors to keep in mind when out on the water ;D
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I believe there is a general boating regulation that requires that more maneuverable boats move for less (i.e. one that's netting has the right of way).
I guess the protester could tow barges, logs or something to make their boats less maneuverable. ;D
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If you want the publicity and have a spokesman then do what they did once before!
Get ALL the boats and cars together. Start on #1 and go 5 milles an hour to Chilliwack!
Or go to Mission and shut down the DFO office!
Or go to Vancouver, you will get the press!
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wow not with the gas prices expected to rise by the weekend to $1.50 a litre due to all the hurricanes and weird weather