Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: sassyboy on September 28, 2004, 06:58:21 PM
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This may be a stupid question but here goes,
there seems to be a lot of small 4-6lb jack springs in the river right now, are they: residents waiting to go out to sea, or returning fish, if they are returning why so small and are they spawners?
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thanx fulcrum :)
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Two thoughts on these spring jacks which I believe are 2 ocean fish, meaning most likely 3 year olds.
Natures way of making sure there is enough males on the spawning grounds to fertilize the eggs.
Helps keep the gene pool seperate from the same brood year, meaning the females from the same year this jacks were born would not be returning to spawn until 1 to 3 years later so cuts down on the chance of inbreeding.
Others may differ on these unscientific thoughts of mine.
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Actually I was told by a conservationist that jack springs should be killed and not allowed to spawn because they carry a defective gene which is carried on thorough the offspring. The reason they return early is because they carry that defective gene.
I don't know how much truth there is to that, but that's what he said. Just sharing the info.
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Jacks are opportunists. It's a life strategy that allows them to be successful when it comes to passing on the genes. Jacks are sneaker males. Because they are small, they can sneak in to dump off his goodies with a female while the bigger males are busy fighting.
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Jacks are opportunists. It's a life strategy that allows them to be successful when it comes to passing on the genes. Jacks are sneaker males. Because they are small, they can sneak in to dump off his goodies with a female while the bigger males are busy fighting.
read: horny teens.
:P
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;Dbunch of horny fish hehe must say never seen a jill fish though.
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Whats a jill? lolz!
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Actually I was told by a conservationist that jack springs should be killed and not allowed to spawn because they carry a defective gene which is carried on thorough the offspring. The reason they return early is because they carry that defective gene.
I don't know how much truth there is to that, but that's what he said. Just sharing the info.
A conservationist that advocates 'genetic cleansing' does not make sense to me. IMHO, they are exterminationist that are trying to fool people that may not know any better.
There are some genetic characteristics that are bad for the individuals concerned, but good for the whole population. An example of this is sickle cell anemia. It is bad for individuals where it was expressed, but good for those who are just carrier --it gave them imunity to malaria. Hence, the populations' survival is somehow safeguarded as far as malaria is concern.
Now, as far as the jack spring is concern --they have the ability to get through obstacles that a large chinook cannot. I think this is specially important characteristics in cases where streams are partially blocked. They will be able to get through and fertilize the eggs. Their offsprings may or may not be expressing and/or carrying the genetic characteristics. So I believe that they are important in the populations' survival.
As a conservationist, I seek to understand the reason why things are the way they are naturally. This way I would not destroy things that nature and/or God has created.
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The existence of jacks is probably a species reproduction defense mechanism. Coho, steelhead & chinooks all have jacks in their runs. Not all rivers have jacks though. Any run of fish with multiple age classes is a healthy run & keeps the gene pool diverse.
Young jacks probably smolt in the early spring & return to their home rivers the following fall, a marine residency of 14-18 months.
Another theory is the #'s of jacks probably help out the outnumbered adult males. Spawning is commonly more stressfull for the sexually polygamous male & the presence of jacks probably helps out lonely females.
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Another question why is their very few chum, pink, and sockeye jacks?
Sort of shoots holes in some of my theories I guess.
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Chris, I believe chum, pink, & sockeye have very few documented cases of jacks because all these species use abundance of #'s as their main reproductive strategy......just a thought.
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Thats an interesting point, JP.
That may be why the even year pink run in southern BC is either non existent or very weak. If there were humpie jacks, the even run could be just as strong as the odd run.
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Another interesting point is that pinks & spring jacks have almost the exact same life history & are almost identical in size. They smolt & return at the almost the exact same time.
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Whats a jill? lolz!
Female jacks
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Chris, I believe chum, pink, & sockeye have very few documented cases of jacks because all these species use abundance of #'s as their main reproductive strategy......just a thought.
Yes that is what I had thought it could be also, I wondered if other thought the same. Thanks.
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The jack question is an interesting one.
Chris, do you think they are born as jacks or do they just turn that way when they see sexy big females heading back to the river, a built in survival instinct?
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Clarification on a couple of the Jack theories. First off, all of the pacific salmon with the exception of pinks have Jacks in their population. Chinook, coho, and sockeye in that order have the most Jacks but it's not unheard of to have chum Jacks. Jacking indeed is a survival technique as it increases the gene flow between broodyears and helps prevent a total loss of broodyears on those years when there are extreme enviromental conditions. That is one of the reasons why pink runs have such a hard time rebuilding after a devasteing flood. No broodyear overlaps.
Jacking is also a way for "Mother Nature" to ensure that their are always enough males to fertilize the females. If you have Jacks in the population it means that the stock is diverse and this is a good thing as it will benefit the stock in the long run. Jacks when they spawn due not produce Jacks but a normal population. A example of this was back in the early 80's, the Babine Lake sockeye spawning population had, for some unexplained reason, a huge shortfall of adult male sockeye. The Jacks on the other hand were more plentiful than normal and they spawned with the females. When the run returned in 4 years, the population was normal in all respects. So obviously, their there for a reason.
Quote:Another interesting point is that pinks & spring jacks have almost the exact same life history & are almost identical in size. They smolt & return at the almost the exact same time.
Sorry to correct you on this one but it's incorrect. Pink fry emerge from the gravel and go to the ocean immedieatly while chinook will spend upto 1 year in fresh water. Chinook have the most varied life cycles of all the salmon, with some fry going to the ocean upon emergence, some will spend 90 - 120 days in freshwater then head seaward, some will go in the fall and some will go in the following spring. It all depends on where the chinook stock is located. Upper Fraser chinook juveniles generally spend a year in freshwater, Thompson/Shuswap fish 120 days and some of the Harrison fish go upon emergence. There are exceptions to this. The adults also return at different times. In my part of the world chinook are in the river in June and Pinks in Aug - Sept.
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The jack question is an interesting one.
Chris, do you think they are born as jacks or do they just turn that way when they see sexy big females heading back to the river, a built in survival instinct?
genetic.
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Sorry Bkk I thought the post was about Vedder Jack chinooks. Veddar whites are originally Harrison stock which do smolt upon emergence. Some rivers have chinook which smolt after 18-24 months of stream residency, but not the Vedder. In the Vedder the pinks & white jacks return at the exact same time (sept/oct).
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I'm just a dumb fisherman and don't know why. My guess is that they probably have hightened testosterone levels. See "horny teens". ;D My guess on pinks is that they are 2 year cycles and don't have time to "jack". ;D
Good discussion though.
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bkk: Regarding how pink runs have such a hard time rebuilding after floods. Do you know what year was the flood that weakened or eliminated the even-year lower BC pink run?
Even if humpies did return as jacks, mature females would probably want nothing to do with a trout sized mate ;D
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have you seen the size of some of those coho jacks at the vedder. A couple years ago i caught 2 that were a foot or less in lenght.
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I have caught a couple of jack springs betwen 8 and 10 inches. One was on the Fraser while bar fishing and the other on the Thompson.They were not smolts and were caught while the jacks were migrating to the spawning grounds.