Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: nosey on August 07, 2016, 10:53:04 AM
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Does anyone here have any good ideas on how to politely and peacefully shame the guys out there bottom bouncing into perhaps learning a different method of fishing. I have explained to quite a few bottom bouncers this year that they were the ones solely responsible for getting the river closed last year in the middle of the spring opening with mixed results. The one guy even told me he thought that might of been it because the one day they were 2 dfo officers came to the bar where they were bbing with notebooks and counted them all and the next day the river was closed, he was bar fishing when I talked to him but had a snagging outfit leaning against the tree behind him, which he folded up after we had our conversation. However when i rode my bicycle past the parking spot at Laidlaw this morning and yelled out "I see there's a bunch of F***king snaggers going out again today" it didn't seem to be met with positive results at all. I don't even think a lot of these guys are aware that they will close the river down again if they count too many people using non selective methods, I find it hard to believe that that many fishermen would deliberately screw things up for the rest of the sports fishermen out there, I cannot entirely grasp that mentality. There somehow needs to be some form of better education, perhaps getting together with other bar fishermen arriving early at the popular bb spots and blocking them off with bar rods, passing out educational pamphlets and taking the time to explain politely to these inconsiderate idiots the consequences of their actions, somehow I don't think I'd be that good at that. IDK I find this problem perplexing, perhaps someone in here has some workable solutions. From years past discussions on here I am aware that there are a lot of die hard bottom bouncers on this forum, so maybe some of them could explain to us what made them respect the fisheries request lol or not.
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...and yelled out "I see there's a bunch of F***king snaggers going out again today" it didn't seem to be met with positive results at all.
Yeah, that's totally unreasonable for them to be all negative, I can't see why that'd happen.
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While I appreciate the selective fishing method debate and what everyone, including the DFO is trying to convey; not sure how much the DFO REALLY care? Both the FN and commercial fisheries use non-selective gill nets. From a purely statistical point of view this would seem to impact the non targeted / pressured species much more than the BB'ers. A gill net stretched bank to bank, or left tethered picks up not only all salmon species but wild steel head, sturgeon and others. Looking at the big picture I would think the decision to open or close a fishery would be based primarily around return levels and politics. The recommendations around angler methods are well meaning but rhetorical when the statistical by catch is considered against other fisheries.
There is also another point to consider; that the fishery many are so eager to condemn is a non-FN, subsistence / ceremonial fishery. There is no commercial element to this fishery whatsoever (catch is never resold) and most if not all is eaten by the angler themselves. By recognizing that this valuable fishery feeds many families and carries important cultural significance for non-FN peoples; we should have more consideration prior to the quick condemnation of it's anglers.
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In a perfect world the gill nets would be banned.
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Change regulations to set-line only.
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As will other highly pressured global stocks; set line or fish weir may become the only option.
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I have explained to quite a few bottom bouncers this year that they were the ones solely responsible for getting the river closed last year in the middle of the spring opening
Is this really true? Have the DFO ever actually cited too much non-selective methods going on as the actual reason for that or any other closure in the past?
The whole "non-selective method is strongly discouraged" thing has been in the recreational fisheries notices for over 10 years now and hasn't done squat in changing behavior. It's been so ineffective that it's basically a running joke IMHO. As long as its technically legal then lots of people are going to do it.
If they don't want bottom bouncing then come up with some regulation that can be specifically enforced and then maybe us as a sport-fishing community can use to pressure fellow anglers. Set Line Only, leader length restrictions, or whatever. I believe the vast majority of fisherman are law abiding so if you change the regs they will follow.
Considering how rich the salmon fishing opportunities are around here I surprised how far behind the curve Canada/BC is in this. BB/snagging is not unique to us, west coast states like Washington & Oregon have had the same problems but at least they have taken the initiative to put some regs in place to deal with it. The fact that we are so far behind on this is embarrassing.
Related note; why is it seemingly so hard to change regs here? I heard an unsubstantiated rumour that they were very close to implementing a leader length restriction or something last year but it got derailed by some faction. Perhaps someone more familiar with the process can lay out the process or barriers...
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That is the truth, they closed the opening last year in the middle of a dynamite run of Springs because of the number of bottom bouncers. Now there are another bunch of bottom bouncers out there that flat out do not care that they are running the risk if getting the river shut down again directly because of them, this has got nothing to do with gill nets or any other legal fishery this has everything to do with inorance and discoutacy towards your fellow fisherman I have no problem. How much credibility can sports fishermen expect at any bargoning table when you can just drive up the highway and see dozens of sport fishermen out there directly disobeying a dfo request that made for conservation purposes.
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It was last year when theyou finally defined bottom bouncing and flossing as the non selective methods they were referring to, this did this to remove grey areas. There are no grey areas now just ignorant people that don't care if they get the river shut down or not. I have no problem beine at odds with other sports fishermen whatsoever thank you if they are that inconsiderate
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Last summer's mid season closure was indeed because Fisheries and Oceans Canada decided too many people were fishing unselectively, but most of this was pressured by First Nations who were not permitted to harvest sockeye salmon at the time. The rationale was that if First Nations could not fish for sockeye salmon due to conservation concerns, recreational fishermen could also not have an impact on them even if they were by-caught and released. My colleagues and I at the Sport Fishing Advisory Committee repeatedly urged people to only bar fish, but in the end the recreational fishing community was once again not organized enough and got played around and kept off the river during the peak of the season. Meanwhile, First Nations fishers were granted their chinook salmon openings, with sockeye salmon being by-caught and harvested in the net anyway.
I and few others spent pretty much the entire last August in email communication trying to get the fishery reopened. One question posed was that at what percentage of non-selective fishing practice do we decide that it is unacceptable? Just about everyone downstream from Agassiz last year (this year too) has been practicing bar fishing and having a great time doing so. Few locations known for bottom bouncing continue to see bottom bouncers above Agassiz, should location-specific closures not be considered rather than punishing the entire community where majority of the participants are willing to cooperate? The other issue I pointed out was the inaccuracy when it came to observation of angling methods. DFO uses fly-by method to count rods and determine the percentage of angling method out of all the participants. Somehow, they'd decided that during the first weekend of opening last August, 87% of the participants in the Tidal Fraser River were fishing unselectively. If you've fished the tidal portion of the Fraser River regularly like me, you'll know what I think about that number... The % was based on 15 anglers they counted, two were observed bar fishing, while the other 13 were apparently bottom bouncing. Four categories of fishing methods were being counted - bottom bouncing, bar fishing, fly fishing and trolling. What about spincasting, which is probably the most commonly used method in the Tidal Fraser River?
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/fishingwithrod/2016/Screen%20Shot%202016-08-07%20at%202.28.57%20PM_zpsldwe65x1.png)
1A - Port Mann to Mission
1 - Mission to Agassiz
2 - Agassiz to Hope
So you ask, if bottom bouncing poses a threat to the conservation effort on sockeye salmon, why is a regulation which prohibits it during sockeye closure not implemented? Guess what we've been trying to do in the past two years? Going into the last four or five sport fishing advisory committee meetings since 2014, representatives in the Fraser Valley who speak on behalf of you, had worked extremely hard to come up with such regulations so the river can remain open for fishing. Everyone agrees that we'd rather have some fishing opportunities with some limitations, than no fishing opportunities at all. Just about all of us (with the exception of one organization that is too stubborn to look out for your interest) put aside all the differences and worked hard together to present these options to Fisheries and Oceans Canada so the proposal can be put forward to the South Coast Sport Fishing Advisory Board Where it'd work with DFO to make this a reality, so we do not experience a closure like last year. Twice it has been pushed, twice it has been declined. There isn't a will, other than those who are directly involved in this fishery, to restrict terminal tackle so recreational fishermen can have a more consistent Fraser River salmon opening. Stop wasting your time asking for it. If you think it can be changed, become an vocal representative and show up at these meetings. The attendance at these SFAC meetings are truly pathetic. The Upper Fraser SFAC meeting, which oversees probably the busiest fishing activities in this province, has maybe 6 sport fishing representatives showing up every time. All of them (excluding myself), are 50+. Where are all the young 18 to 35 yo who are so vocally angry about these closures on the internet? At times there are maybe 15 people at the meeting, twice as many DFO staffs as the sport reps. IMO anyone who isn't involved and actively fishes in the Fraser Valley is partially blamed for these closures. You think going down to the river and "educating" those who are legally fishing by calling them f**king snaggers is going to make a difference? Keep it up, we'll see what difference it has done in ten years from now.
This is just one of many inconsistencies that I have seen in the past ten+ years since I started being involved at these meetings. I am regularly pointing out the outdated regulations on DFO's website which show fisheries closed when they are in fact open. Wrong daily quotas listed and only corrected AFTER the fishery is done. Last year, after the Fraser reopened for chinook salmon, I repeatedly wanted clarification on whether no fishing or no retention (catch and release permitted) applied to pink and chum salmon. The answer I got was:
"Yes, and to be clear, the key message is that we want fishers to direct their effort on chinook. Further to this, pink and chum are not open to retention at this time so why would fishers be targeting them?"
Apparently some staffs fail to understand that C&R is what keeps many of our recreational fisheries open in this province.
Two seasons ago, the proposal of night time fishing ban for the Fraser River was brought up at the table to combat night time sturgeon poaching. None of us were in favour of it as it takes eyes and ears off the river, and eliminating those who enjoy fishing at night during the summer, for any species. We'd asked for more consultation time. A few months later, the province decided to add the night time fishing ban for the non-tidal portion of the Fraser River in the new regulation synopsis. While at the spring SFAC meeting, we were still discussing whether it should be closed or not because all of the poaching happens in the Tidal Fraser. I pulled out the new synopsis, and to everyone's surprise, it already showed that it is now closed. Since the province couldn't close the tidal portion as it is under federal jurisdiction, they closed the non-tidal so DFO can follow and make the closure consistent by closing the tidal.
This was followed by this year's night time closure for the Tidal Fraser added by DFO.
Four years ago, we talked about the proposed sockeye salmon communal fishery in Chilliwack River for Chilliwack First Nations. The proposed methods were dip netting and seine netting, to reduce impact and prevent potential conflicts between user groups. That year hardly any fish were caught due to challenges of using these methods in a new fishery. This year, without being notified, gill nets can now be used in this fishery because the other methods are just not effective enough.
??? ??? ???
And don't blame all of this on the natives either. The amount of hate on First Nations being displayed whenever you don't get to fish can make me puke. First Nations know their rights to harvest and are very organized to make sure their rights are recognized. Good for them. The lack of participation and dysfunctional organization within the sport fishing community when it comes to lobbying what we want is a complete joke. Instead of proactively fighting for the loss of these opportunities, we rather complain about what others are doing, publicly shame someone who unknowingly makes a mistake, rant about how crowded our own fisheries have become and bicker about the smallest things that makes no difference in the big picture.
Which fishery are you willing to give up next?
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I whole heartedly agree with Rodney's analysis, although I don't know if it's worth getting too worked up about the complainers on the forum. I mean really just look at most online forums for anything, full of complainers, racism etc..., as it's an anonymous way of venting.
I commend very much the work of those sport fishing advocates who attend those meetings and hope they continue. They and those leading the various rec fish organizations are the ones who should be taking the lead and should continue to do so.
I do think that the constant ranting against the FN fisheries is not helpful and gets us nowhere, and more work should be done to work with them around conservation through organizations like the PSF . The initiative to work with them to use small seines is a step in the right direction and hopefully DFO can provide them with some actual incentives such as a very limited access to a legal commercial harvest. There is already an under the table commercial sale let's at least open this up and acknowledge it and make it legal (with a reasonable harvest). Another idea might be for the rec sector to work with FN on obtaining an exception to the current ban on seal hunting, and allow for a small harvest number especially for the salmon smolt specialists (lot's of interesting research coming out on this).
Just a few ideas that probably aren't very good but maybe could be...
In the end, the rec opportunity and most importantly the fish are the ones that will lose out if we just keep battling FN. Their opportunity is guaranteed by the charter. They have very little incentive to work with us unless we bring something to the table, like dollars for conservation and hatchery programs (managed well), that increase the stocks.
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Thanks for the time for such an epic post.
Last summer's mid season closure was indeed because Fisheries and Oceans Canada decided too many people were fishing unselectively, but most of this was pressured by First Nations who were not permitted to harvest sockeye salmon at the time.
This might be a minor point but should not the DFO specifically cite non-selective methods as a reason for closing down a fishery whether the methodology was solid or not, if that was indeed their actual justification. Maybe if those who participate in such methods can see how their actions can literally ruin the opportunity for everyone including themselves then they might start taking such recommendations in the fisheries notices a bit more seriously. If they don't offer the actual reason for the closure then people will just blame low returns, water temps, natives or everything else but themselves.
The attendance at these SFAC meetings are truly pathetic. The Upper Fraser SFAC meeting, which oversees probably the busiest fishing activities in this province, has maybe 6 sport fishing representatives showing up every time. All of them (excluding myself), are 50+. Where are all the young 18 to 35 yo who are so vocally angry about these closures on the internet?
Can literally just any member of the public attend these meetings and have a voice? I would imagine most of those angry youngsters don't even realize there are ways to get involved in these issues.
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I don't understand why everyone steers away from bad talking the natives. I've been fishing the Fraser for 30+ years with my dad who has 30+ years on me. Spend some time out there and watch the over exploitation by the natives. Over fishing is 90% of the problem. Like in the fall when they do all the beach seining pulling chums and pinks off their reds by the thousands and people question where the fish are going. People need to open their eyes to the reality of things and stop burying their heads in the sand to the true cause of our salmon depletion.
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Sage2016,
What we are discussing here is not really whether bottom bouncing causes similar damages as other user groups, but how we can retain our fishing opportunities and stop having our seasons cutting short. There's no doubt that First Nations' fisheries, either legal or not, have a huge impact on the resource. I think everyone can agree on that. We can probably also agree that the commercial operations in the ocean, plus other human caused factors (pumping raw sewage into the estuaries where smoltification occurs, loss of spawning habitat due to development, water shortage due to improper management, and climate change...). What the recreational fishing community needs to do is to form one voice and have one consistent response on every issue. To start with, we need a chair at the sport fishing advisory committee who can lead the group. Right now there isn't one. We need people to start joining groups such as the Fraser Valley Salmon Society, BC Federation of Drift Fishers and contribute to the newly formed Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance which is representing all of these groups. We also need to work with the First Nations and support the current Peace Keepers program where our reps sit at the table with FV chiefs so issues like illegal netting, user conflicts can be dealt with. You might be surprised to find that many First Nations' individuals share the same concerns as you.
DanL,
Anyone can attend these meetings. If you cannot, the next best thing is to join an organization which has a representation at these meetings as mentioned earlier, so you can stay informed and form educated opinions when these issues arise. Right now, what really angers me is that most people choose to form an opinion without getting all the facts. A good example of this is when I shared the Chilliwack netting information on our Facebook page last week. I had expected people to read the information provided, instead just about everyone went off on a rant about FN after seeing the title "Netting Vedder canal".
https://www.facebook.com/fishingwithrod/posts/10153863203582712
swimmingwiththefishes,
That's right. Keep fighting FN for their rights to fish will find ourselves at the losing end of the battle. Looking back in the past ten years to see what progress has been made in dealing with this, not many positive things. We now have even less rec fishing opportunities in rivers, and for the first time we are seeing gill netting in the Vedder being legalized.
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A lot of people do not realize that the rights of indigenous populations of our country are enshrined into our Constitution and won by the natives in hard fought court battle's, some lasting over decades we just can't take that away with the swipe of a pen those are fights already settled , it would take another hundred years of court battles to change anything with the possible outcome of the sport fishery losing all rigbts to fish in the river.These are the laws of the land we live in, this is not going to change, you can't just bitch about the natives every time there is a change in regulations or restrictions. I just find it extremely frustrating that other anglers would disregard the fisheries requests with no thought whatsoever of the results of their actions. And actually shaming may help, I heard of a few cases last year on Gill where the bottom bouncers were discouraged from continuing by the loud and boisterous voices of the bar fishermen present and by the end of the season there were no bottom bouncers there. I of course do not believe in spot closures above the Rosedale Agassiz bridge as that would directly affect me. Thank you Rodney for your insite on this, with the amount of work and time you put into this I know of no one else as informed on this matter, lol I'd keep away from the spot closure idea if it is possible, that's just another closed fishing opportunity but 8 would sooner sacrifice my fishing spots than watch a bunch of snaggers snubbing their noses at those of us looking for ways to make it work within the boundaries given us,
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Attacking the First Nations will get us no where when it comes to our fishing opportunities. If more people would take the advice of what Rodney has taken a lot of time to explain in these posts on this tread we all would be far better off.
How many people here belong to a organization that Rod has mentioned and contribute in time or donations? Also one can always put back to make the environment along our rivers better by attending several cleanups held by the Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Society and others.
Instead of bashing First Nations lets clean up our house first and do what we can so we will continue to enjoy sports fishing on the Fraser River and other rivers in the years ahead.
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I agree 100% that bottom bouncing is a plague on our river. It's a cancer that continues to spread which is sickening. Yes I know fn have a right to fish for food that goes back to the start of time. But we need to start asking the question of them is how much is enough? I retained 3 chinook last year 0 coho and 1 hatchery steelhead. The problem arises with the fact thousands of fish are taken under the guides of food fishing. According to dfo reports in the Cohen commission 97% of fn fish end up sold illegally. We as sports fisherman have been restricted more and more over the years to fish in the dwindling fish stocks which we play an immeasurable part in. I agree with Rodney we need a voice a strong voice but we must not shy from the true problems because they aren't politically correct. Chris I'm not bashing first nations I'm stating the facts. You know it's not the way it was back in the empress ball team derbies.
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Most of the individuals who fish the Fraser and even other rivers think things just happen with regards to accessing our to fish stocks. They do not belong to any organization which is a real shame. One group is the BCFDF whose mandate is to fight for our access to fish stocks. To join the cost is $10.00 per year. This group as others mentioned are run by volunteers fighting for you. We need younger people with passion to carry on the fight. Get out from behind your screens and do something positive. Join a fishing club, conservation group etc. you can then be proud you actually had a part in making a change instead of just ranting on your computer.
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Thanks to Rodney for his comprehensive post on a very complex subject. He is very correct that if change is wanted, people need to get involved. As I had mentioned in a previous post, that if various organizations such as the Fraser River Sport Fishing Alliance wishes to pursue changing laws and regs, they better have deep pockets as their case(s) may well end up in the Supreme Court of Canada. It would be interesting to know as how many people on this forum have donated both time and money to any of the various organizations.
As for the mention of the Cohen Report (which I have read all 3 volumes), there is more to the decline of Salmon then most people think...or what to think. For example, the report (Volume 2, Causes of the Decline) has the following summary. There are then hundred + pages following that delve into these theories of salmon decline and more.
The Commission investigated several potential causes of decline across the five different life stages of Fraser River sockeye
salmon.
Those potential causes included:
predation, infectious disease, contaminants, climate change.
Stressors in the freshwater environment(logging, agriculture, gravel removal, pulp and paper mills, metal mining, municipal wastewater, and other development-related impacts on fish habitat.)
Stressors in the marine environment (harmful algal blooms, salmon farms, sea lice, variations in marine productivity, and competition
with hatchery and other species / stocks of wild salmon). Some individuals, I suspect, hoped that our work would find the “smoking gun” – a single cause that explained the two-decade decline. The idea that a single event or stressor is responsible for the 1992–2009 decline in Fraser River sockeye is appealing but improbable.
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Is this really true? Have the DFO ever actually cited too much non-selective methods going on as the actual reason for that or any other closure in the past?
Yes in previous years, they have closed the river due to 'non-selective methods
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I have donated both time and money. Was involved with the coho encounters study volunteered my boat 3 years in a row. I was involved in the radio telemitry study of Thompson steelhead in 97 on the Fraser. I've been part of the salmon society at its inception when it first started all those years ago at bowmans. I would bet 90% of the people on fwr don't know what it was like to fish the Fraser before the retention of sockeye opened. I'm someone who is speaking from what I've seen through my own eyes of being on this river for 30+ years. Yes we need a voice it would be nice if the sport fishing alliance would offer memberships I would join in an instant.
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We did have a donation jar set up at island 22 info session last monday. I will bring this up at our next meeting but i am sure Fred would accept donations to FRSA at his store if you mentioned where it was to go. I will call him tomorrow.
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people should also keep in mind FOC/DFO (The Federal Government) doesn't control fishing methods on the Fraser above Mission - it's Provincial Jurisdiction. So perhaps you should lobby them because other people already do.
As far as what the river was like pre-1993 (my local experience goes back to the 60s) - well life's a bitch. Once the genie is out of the bottle it's very difficult to put the bugger back in.
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Maybe all tackle shops could have donation jars set up . Yes , there are a number of organizations out there however , they are not well advertised . If you don't here or see them except at sportsmen shows people won't know they are out there and what they seek and what we can do to physically to help . I'm sure if fishing report websites showed these groups and threw it in there face every time we open up our report page we would get more fishers involved . No?
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DFO is in charge of Salmon not provincial. It would be nice to have orginizations listed on web sites with contact info. I know there were many new members signed up to BCFDF at Tradex show this year.
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Maybe all tackle shops could have donation jars set up . Yes , there are a number of organizations out there however , they are not well advertised . If you don't here or see them except at sportsmen shows people won't know they are out there and what they seek and what we can do to physically to help . I'm sure if fishing report websites showed these groups and threw it in there face every time we open up our report page we would get more fishers involved . No?
We, the Fraser Valley Salmon Society are on FB and our web site is here, http://www.fraservalleysalmonsociety.ca/ although it needs to be updated, will send our web master a note.
Here is our history I wrote a while ago but it is now out dated with Dean Werk now our president. Nick and I are the only ones left from the original group that started the FVSS in 1984. Many have passed on while others have retired after giving many years of service
Our History
By Chris Gadsden
On a hot humid day in May of 1984, on the 29th to be exact, 250 concerned Fraser River fishermen gathered in Evergreen Hall in Chilliwack. The agenda before them was to see if there was enough interest to form an organization to see what could be done to reopen the Fraser to the retention of adult chinooks. This once popular fishery had been closed since 1980. At the time of the meeting only chinook jacks up to 50 centimeters to a maxim limit of 4 per day could be retained.
What had triggered this meeting was the May 3, 1984 ticket received by the late Peter Epp, a long time Fraser River fisherman, for retaining an adult chinook. He caught it at the mouth of the Sumas River where it meets the Fraser, a popular spot for chinook fishing that usually started in April.
Sports fishers are among the best conservationists and law abiding user groups, and they did not support breaking the law, but it still seemed to many anglers that there was imbalance going on here regarding the allotment of these Pacific Salmon to the freshwater fishery. At this time in the ocean 30 chinook a year could be retained by a salt water angler.
During the time of the 4 year closure, the sporties on the Fraser River were the only user group not being able to retain adult chinooks, and they were the ones that science said has the least impact. As well, sports' fishing contributes millions of dollars to the economy in British Columbia, but the several businesses in the Fraser Valley suffered from the loss of this fishery.
Chris Gadsden and Fred Helmer Jr. presided at this meeting and outlined their reasons and goals for calling it. They were amazed and encouraged by the attendance at this original gathering. The attendees also gave the group a financial kick start tossing $322.51 into the hat that was passed through the crowd.
Individual anglers found at this meeting they had many allies and collectively they concluded there was strength in unity to press for changes.
At this meeting an executive of 18 was elected to formulate a game plan to how to try to reopen the fishery. Fred Helmer Sr. was elected to the presidency.
At the newly elected board's first executive meeting 2 days later, the name Fraser Valley Salmon Society was selected along with a crest design.
The newly-formed board determined a number of noteworthy points to work on that included:
1 Justice -- salt water limit vs. fresh water.
2 Develop a punch-card system similar to the saltwater one in use.
3 Enforcement of present regulations.
4 Inability of DFO to establish sport salmon catch numbers in the Fraser River.
5 Self policing being the presence of law abiding fisherman returning to the river.
A month later another general meeting was called where petitions and form letters were circulated to be sent to the then Liberal Fisheries Minister Pierre De Bane were circulated and filled out by the 100 interested fishers that turned out.
During the next couple of months the group was frustrated by a number of changes in the fisheries portfolio as De Bane was replaced soon after the letter writing campaign started being replaced on June 30 by The Honorable Herb Breau.
A little over 2 months later, on September 17, a new government, The Conservatives, were sworn into power with the Honorable John Fraser being appointed the new Fisheries minister.
The FVSS felt good about Fraser's appointment. With the same name as the Fraser River, was there some justice here? Fraser also was from the West Coast and was a sports angler himself, so the hope was he could identify the problems at hand.
At the same time as Fraser took the Fisheries Minister's post, FVSS got another boost as the now late Lee Straight gave the Society his support. Straight, a well-known newspaper columnist for the Vancouver Sun for many years, was also the Federal Fisheries' Pacific region ombudsman.
Straight was quoted in the Chilliwack Progress On August 29 the same year,"The sports anglers on the Fraser are being wildly discriminated against by Federal Fisheries' regulations."
With all this, the fledgling group continued with their lobbying and was rewarded with an adult Chinook fishery for the month of October, 1984 even though it was on the Chilliwack/Vedder River and not the Fraser River.
The group pressed on with their agenda and was given an audience with the Federal Fisheries in Vancouver on January 25, 1985. Four directors that included Roy Huband, Fred Helmer Jr., Peter Sellmer, and the late John Vail all attended this much sought-after meeting. As well, director Huband, who represented FVSS interests on the Sports Fishing Advisory Board, took part in a meeting with the newly appointed Minister Fraser around the same time.
All this effort of writing campaigns and numerous meetings finally paid off as more success was made when the department announced an opening on the Fraser River from the Mission Bridge and up-stream to the power lines above the Agassiz – Rosedale Bridge.
The opening was from September 13 until October 31 with one Chinook a day over 50 cm in length. Once again this fishery was going again after a 5 year closure.
This fishery continued in varying lengths of time for a few years, but too slowly for some. FVSS wanted a 12-month fishery. The result was that a major protest fishery took place on Queens Bar off Island 22 on August the 10, 1986. This protest, attended by 50 or so members and supporters, was covered by 3 Vancouver-based Television stations along with local radio station news director Grant Ullyot and several newspapers.
This media attention once again drew the attention of the Department, and Fraser Valley MP, the late Ross Belsher, arranged a meeting with the once again new Fishery Minister, Tom Siddon.
The meeting, along with the presentation made by the then President, Pete Sellmer, was very well received by Siddon and his staff.
At the Conclusion of this meeting, Siddon asked Area Manager of the time Fred Fraser, "How many fish are we talking about for these fishers here Fred?"
When Fraser answered about 3,000, Siddon replied, "We are talking about only 3,000 pieces".
The rest is history as the seasons were expanded over a period of time until we have a Chinook season that starts May 1 and runs to December 31 in most cases.
The FVSS may still not have their 12-month fishery yet, but have expanded the fishery to all species of Pacific Salmon over the years. Also, the FVSS success story has created other fishing opportunities throughout the Province of British Columbia the last few years.
These expanded fisheries have created an economic boom to the Valley that generates millions of dollars to the local economy. Anglers are attracted world wide to the Chilliwack area to fish the Fraser, the largest salmon-producing river in the world.
Several new guiding operations have sprung up recently to accommodate these seekers of the Pacific salmon, with the Chinook being the king of them all, as they can reach 60 pounds of fighting fury. As well, the FVSS supports the continuing of the sturgeon catch-and-release fishery that also is very popular for the in-coming tourists.
The FVSS is now recognized by all levels of Government as a power to be recognized. The Society's directors sit on different boards and organizations way to numerous to mention. They also put on a yearly All About Fishing show directed at educating the young anglers, as well as an annual coarse-fishing day in June at Cultus Lake. Last year former Vancouver Canuck Trent Klatt and his 5 children took in the event. Fin the team's popular mascot was also a hit for the young anglers.
One wonders what would have happened to this fishery now taken for granted by many new anglers if 200 concerned anglers did not get together on that hot and humid evening 20 years ago and formed the Fraser Valley Salmon Society.
If it was not for the past presidents that included Fred Helmer Sr, Peter Sellmer, Sandy Ritchie, Fred Helmer Jr. and the present President Frank Kwak along with numerous different directors over the years, where would we be? If it was not for all their unselfish service to the fishing community we most likely would be still sitting on the banks of the Fraser instead of fishing for adult Chinooks and other species. We must remember to thank them all for the thousands of countless hours they have so freely given, and the hundreds of meetings they've attended over these 26 past years and are still attending.
To Quote Izaak Walton, "God never did make a more calm, quiet and innocent recreation than angling." How true that statement was and still is.
I am sure present presidents, directors and all those that will follow in the future will work to retain this recreation, sports angling on the Fraser River
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DFO is in charge of Salmon not provincial.
and that's all - when salmon are open and what retention is allowed. DFO cannot close a water outright neither or set fishing methods. You also have to consider DFO has by policy not discriminated between tackle or method no matter what the conservation or ethical considerations.
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Is this really true? Have the DFO ever actually cited too much non-selective methods going on as the actual reason for that or any other closure in the past?
The whole "non-selective method is strongly discouraged" thing has been in the recreational fisheries notices for over 10 years now and hasn't done squat in changing behavior. It's been so ineffective that it's basically a running joke IMHO. As long as its technically legal then lots of people are going to do it.
If they don't want bottom bouncing then come up with some regulation that can be specifically enforced and then maybe us as a sport-fishing community can use to pressure fellow anglers. Set Line Only, leader length restrictions, or whatever. I believe the vast majority of fisherman are law abiding so if you change the regs they will follow.
Considering how rich the salmon fishing opportunities are around here I surprised how far behind the curve Canada/BC is in this. BB/snagging is not unique to us, west coast states like Washington & Oregon have had the same problems but at least they have taken the initiative to put some regs in place to deal with it. The fact that we are so far behind on this is embarrassing.
Related note; why is it seemingly so hard to change regs here? I heard an unsubstantiated rumour that they were very close to implementing a leader length restriction or something last year but it got derailed by some faction. Perhaps someone more familiar with the process can lay out the process or barriers...
Hmm, reading this makes you wonder if they actually want to solve the issue, doesn't it? What better way to keep the sports fishermen divided into all the respective groups and much easier to conquer? You get people cursing about people going out and fishing in a way that is still legal. They can close the river back down for some vague reasons and either blame a group or leave it to the infighting of all the groups over who is to blame.
Rod's post backs up this theory. Suggestions have been made that could help the issue but those aren't listened to. They assign bottom bouncing to people in the lower Fraser because they are casting when most people would say there is no way to bottom bounce that low in the river effectively. Until there is a unified group and a unified voice, you can expect the recreational fisheries to continue to get the shaft. There is no worry about that group. They can't put together a unified front even in the most egregious decisions. Screw over the FN or even the commercial groups and there will be fall out. Recreational guys? Might get a dozen people complaining so who cares.
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Change regulations to set-line only.
No thanks. Many people like to use flies or spoons or plugs.
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Hmm, reading this makes you wonder if they actually want to solve the issue, doesn't it? What better way to keep the sports fishermen divided into all the respective groups and much easier to conquer? You get people cursing about people going out and fishing in a way that is still legal. They can close the river back down for some vague reasons and either blame a group or leave it to the infighting of all the groups over who is to blame.
Rod's post backs up this theory. Suggestions have been made that could help the issue but those aren't listened to. They assign bottom bouncing to people in the lower Fraser because they are casting when most people would say there is no way to bottom bounce that low in the river effectively. Until there is a unified group and a unified voice, you can expect the recreational fisheries to continue to get the shaft. There is no worry about that group. They can't put together a unified front even in the most egregious decisions. Screw over the FN or even the commercial groups and there will be fall out. Recreational guys? Might get a dozen people complaining so who cares.
--I agree with at least trying to find common ground. If current clubs or groups do not reperesent your ideals get one going that does.
--I belong to a fishing club that belongs to both the BCFFF and BCWF... Now that makes for some interesting arguements and conflcilting ideals within our Club and when we try to bring forward resolutions for fisheries management that have provincial consequence... like Steelhead management practices...we often have heated discussions, but we try and as a club we also actually work on local fisheries projects. As much as we argue with passion we also enjoy fishing with and supporting other area clubs and local First Nations with projects that benefit fish.
--The biggest benefit has been listening to and sharing information with others.
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Pretty sad today, stopped in Freds to make $100 donation to the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance and what do I see - bouncing betties for sale. When I asked the clerk why they were out for sale I was told Fred has to make his money! At least Chilliwack Dart and Tackle has theirs not in view and btw not many guys asking for them either. Needless to say I did not donate. I guess it's really just about profits for some.
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Pretty sad today, stopped in Freds to make $100 donation to the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance and what do I see - bouncing betties for sale. When I asked the clerk why they were out for sale I was told Fred has to make his money! At least Chilliwack Dart and Tackle has theirs not in view and btw not many guys asking for them either. Needless to say I did not donate. I guess it's really just about profits for some.
Ouch.
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Pretty sad today, stopped in Freds to make $100 donation to the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance and what do I see - bouncing betties for sale. When I asked the clerk why they were out for sale I was told Fred has to make his money! At least Chilliwack Dart and Tackle has theirs not in view and btw not many guys asking for them either. Needless to say I did not donate. I guess it's really just about profits for some.
How ironic that is huh.....
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Chwk dart and tackle has always taken the high road when it comes to ethical and conservation matters. They get my money any time I shop in Chwk, I'm pretty sure that's Freds will never get another dime from me, if all the salmon runs out there are nothing but dollars and cents then we can rank the sports fishery right up there with the other users of the resource and kiss the biggest run of sockeye in the world good bye forever.
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Change regulations to set-line only.
Fly fishing would be discriminated against if such a regulation was adopted.
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Pretty sad today, stopped in Freds to make $100 donation to the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance and what do I see - bouncing betties for sale. When I asked the clerk why they were out for sale I was told Fred has to make his money! At least Chilliwack Dart and Tackle has theirs not in view and btw not many guys asking for them either. Needless to say I did not donate. I guess it's really just about profits for some.
If I understand correctly, is not Fred's Custom Tackle a member of the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance? The FRSA fought for an opening, even threatening to go as far as organizing a protest fishery, yet its' members sell the very tackle that supports the bottom bouncing activity, which is non-selective, and which contributed (according to Rod) of closing down the fishery mid-season last year.
In fact, the fishing report on the Fred's Custom Tackle website asks anglers to not bottom bounce: "We are asking anglers to be selective and avoid Sockeye by not bottom bouncing during times of Sockeye concerns"
And yes, bouncing betties do have other legitimate uses besides bottom bouncing. We'll be using them next month to troll for lake trout in Isaac Lake when we canoe the Bowron Lake chain.
I am not slagging Mr. Helmer or his business, and I know that he is a sponsor of this website. You have to sell tackle to survive, and if I were in his business shoes, it would be hard to do any different.
But it is ironic, as JC says, and just shows how complicated this whole affair is.
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Keep them behind the counter OUT OF SIGHT like cigarettes I think!!!
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yet its' members sell the very tackle that supports the bottom bouncing activity, which is non-selective, and which contributed (according to Rod) of closing down the fishery mid-season last year.
I'm pretty sure Rod's post actually indicated the opposite, mostly. Using faulty data, faulty examinations, faulty conclusions, they closed the fishery last year and used it as the scapegoat. Seemed like they were set on closing it and just needed a reason. I guess I could be misreading it too. It also isn't a "problem" they seem to want to fix.