Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on December 05, 2014, 06:56:50 AM
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http://www.mapleridgenews.com/opinion/284807621.html
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I didn't see this on any fish I caught this year.
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Chum returns on the Vedder are very low this season as well. Buck and I were shocked how few there are in the off channel areas in the lower river when we looked on Wednesday.
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chum and spring returns were low in the Coquitlam as well this year
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Huh?
The article doesn't mention low returns - it is about doe's dying before spawning with black or white eggs.
The waters I frequented had lots of spawned out fish. I didn't notice any unspawned dead fish.
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There was late returns, but this is the first im hearing about low numbers. The water levels and temperature really pushed the coho and chum back a few weeks this year I noticed. But the numbers seemed good to me once the rains came on heavy in October.
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Huh?
The article doesn't mention low returns - it is about doe's dying before spawning with black or white eggs.
The waters I frequented had lots of spawned out fish. I didn't notice any unspawned dead fish.
“To put this in perspective,” says Stanger, last year we’d be finding 25-35 live chum weekly. Our largest weekly chum count to date is eight, but most counts have been zero to two, and the dead fish, mostly unspawned, seem to deteriorate very quickly – in the space of a week. I’ve never seen that before.”
Olson was also shocked by the weak returns.
“The numbers this year are horrendous. I’ve never seen such low returns on both chum and coho.”
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Or it could be that with the unprecedented high water levels the dead chum were all washed away.
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"What’s troubling is that two of the chum appeared to have completely abnormal eggs – Doug Stanger, streamkeeper."
I'm very skepticle about that article. It lacks several of the key elements that are required to explain to the reader how they got to draw their conclusions, for instance what the sample size was.
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typhoon, on the Vedder there is no doubt the recent flood washed away a lot of carcasses on the main stem, but high water does not impact the controlled flow off channel areas Buck and I visited. The fish simply are not there in the numbers we have seen in the past few years.
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Looks like the only one likely to test those fish was good ol A.M. not the DFO. Probably something all the stream keeper types should know as well. Kudo's to her.
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If people believe DFO are not doing their job, blame the government. Ottawa has effectively gagged DFO, for instance during the Mt. Polley spill Ottawa told DFO not to collect samples or say anything bad about the industry.
Looks like the only one likely to test those fish was good ol A.M. not the DFO. Probably something all the stream keeper types should know as well. Kudo's to her.
As for A.M., she is not held in high regards amongst the academic community in regards to credibility. This includes the biologists and scientists that are not gagged by the government due to work outside of Ottawa's reach.
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As for A.M., she is not held in high regards amongst the academic community in regards to credibility. This includes the biologists and scientists that are not gagged by the government due to work outside of Ottawa's reach.
That's like telling tb there is no Santa Claus ;)
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There was a poor return to the Campbell River system this year also for chum. The hatchery never reached their target of Chinook eggs because of a low return. Cohos returns where normal.
A lot of pinks died with out spawning due to low warm water. When the Quinsam did receive rain the water was full of rotting pink flesh. You had to clean the fish flesh off of your line and swivels. Apparently about 1.5 million pinks came back. Don't quote me though.
You where allowed to keep one wild coho in the ocean this yr. I wonder if this impacted some of those streams.
Are we starting to see the effects of Fukushima?
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There was a poor return to the Campbell River system this year also for chum. The hatchery never reached their target of Chinook eggs because of a low return. Cohos returns where normal.
A lot of pinks died with out spawning due to low warm water. When the Quinsam did receive rain the water was full of rotting pink flesh. You had to clean the fish flesh off of your line and swivels. Apparently about 1.5 million pinks came back. Don't quote me though.
You where allowed to keep one wild coho in the ocean this yr. I wonder if this impacted some of those streams.
Are we starting to see the effects of Fukushima?
Also consider the fact there was a lot of fishing activity by all sectors for sockeye for an extended time period this season.
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That's like telling tb there is no Santa Claus ;)
No he died after delivering presents to a fish farm. Some sort of virus.
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No he died after delivering presents to a fish farm. Some sort of virus.
I disagree.
He died when he visited a Turkey farm. Some sort of influenza ;D
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I agree with clarkii that the article is missing some information here because are we talking about fresh live fish, carcasses or both? If they were carcasses I would be interested how long they were lying around. Where they fresh (red gills), tainted (pink gills) or rotten (goo bag) carcasses? How many fish were actually sampled where these abnormalities (i.e. black eggs) were observed? How many prespawns are we talking about? Was high prespawn mortality observed at the start and continued past peak of spawn?
Generally speaking, prespawn mortality is not abnormal. It is not uncommon to have spawning success starting out poor at the start of the run, but improve as it reaches peak of spawn. Some years, you can have very high prespawn mortality right from the get-go and it never gets better and in those same years with co-migrating species spawning success can be at or above historical averages. On the first survey, if you show up and the dead recovery is as high (or higher) than the live count then that isn’t a good sign. Unfavourable migratory conditions such as high water temperatures and discharge can be present during periods of high prespawn mortality; however, generally, Fraser River conditions this year have been good from the end of July onwards.
However, a person just can’t look at some prespawns on the spawning grounds and conclude that some mysterious disease is at play. A salmon carcass lying on the stream bank can have numerous pathogens in them which can make it very difficult for fish health people to determine what caused the dead of the fish. Once adult Pacific Salmon enter freshwater the process of putrefaction and cell autolysis is underway and is greatly accelerated once it dies and is exposed to the elements. For these reasons, Fish Health people are not very enthusiastic in analyzing salmon that have been dead for an undetermined amount of time. Most times the quality of the sample won’t be really seen until the lab technician has prepared the sample for analysis through a series of steps – only to find out at the end of the process that the sample is not useful. However, they have to go through that process regardless because the quality of the sample won’t show up until the end. Analyzing fish for pathogens is not cheap. Once that money is spent to spent to prepare those samples that’s it – there is no refund. In addition, there is not many staff at Pacific Biological Station to do this work, so it is important to get the best quality samples possible from the start. Fresh, live fish are the best to sample and analyze in order to get the best results.
Alexandra Morton does not get fresh, live fish, so anything other than that can have very suspect results as we have come to learn already from her work. Her “field researchers” apparently believe that a salmon carcass should retain its red gills or it is “suspicious”. Any spot, wound or discolouration is seen as abnormal and of course – “suspicious”. Although these individuals are highly motivated, enthusiastic and love wild salmon their work is more speculation than actual science. Morton can treat those samples from the carcasses she collects with as much TLC as she would like, but in the end garbage in equals garbage out.
There’s no excuse for DFO not to be on spawning streams this fall and sending reports of abnormalities to government laboratories or documenting the scarcity of spawners.
Well, that is not entirely true. Stock Assessment staff are on the spawning grounds conducting enumeration work, but are also observing any abnormalities noticed during that work. That is part of the job. In addition, DFO’s Environmental Watch Program observes the migration biology (field and laboratory research) of Pacific Salmon and monitors environmental conditions in the Fraser River – providing inseason, scientific advice to fisheries managers on the impact of environmental conditions on Pacific Salmon survival. Although I see the authors point about having more monitoring on these smaller streams he mentions, unfortunately these days there are no funds and staff to monitor all these small creeks. If something is picked up then something would inevitably fall off the table.
Are the immune systems of chum passing fish farms weakened along with sockeye?
More speculation than fact.
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If people believe DFO are not doing their job, blame the government. Ottawa has effectively gagged DFO, for instance during the Mt. Polley spill Ottawa told DFO not to collect samples or say anything bad about the industry.
It should be noted that MOE is the lead agency with Mt. Polley. DFO is conducting limnological work on Quesnel Lake as noted on the MOE Mt. Polley website. As I said before, it will be difficult to gag anyone with this because there is nothing preventing people from taking samples from Quesnel Lake. Government agencies are not the only people on the ground there.
Blame the government? Your opinion will likely be seen very favourably by Santa this season. His elves will likely give you a high five.
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It should be noted that MOE is the lead agency with Mt. Polley. DFO is conducting limnological work on Quesnel Lake as noted on the MOE Mt. Polley website. As I said before, it will be difficult to gag anyone with this because there is nothing preventing people from taking samples from Quesnel Lake. Government agencies are not the only people on the ground there.
Blame the government? Your opinion will likely be seen very favourably by Santa this season. His elves will likely give you a high five.
To give you an idea where this is coming from, my fisheries prof at school was at a conference and heard that through a credible source.
DFO should not be standing back on this because their responsibility is pac salmon, and Quesnel lake gets a salmon run through it.
Further DFO is facing cuts, and lost the ability to do environmental assessments on pipelines as apparently the neb knows about fish.
As before, blame the government not the agency.