Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: yoda on October 27, 2012, 10:12:51 AM
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Heard from someone reliable that the squish is paved from side to side with chum.
Any truth to this? Very encouraging if this is true!
Any news on whether there might be an opening?
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Heard from someone reliable that the squish is paved from side to side with chum.
Any truth to this? Very encouraging if this is true!
Any news on whether there might be an opening?
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=31583.0
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yup there are fish in there you just have to find em.
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Heard from someone reliable that the squish is paved from side to side with chum.
Any truth to this? Very encouraging if this is true!
Any news on whether there might be an opening?
Some one is selling you a line. The river has more chum in it at this time of year than the last 5 years but that is not saying alot as in those years it was just piss poor awful. Hopefully the return will continue to build but in the last couple of years we had a early push of fish and then it just stopped. Would love to see this river with hundreads of thousands of chum like it should and did have but that has not happened for a bunch of years now. Most people don't apprecieate how many chum this system had so now when they see a decent push of fish the just think it's lots. It is'nt. I've lived and fished in Squamish for 28+ years now and it used to be that you could go down to Fishermans Park on Brennen Road in mid November and it was impossible to fish spoons in the river due to chum. The whole residential neighbourhood smelled of dead chum for weeks on end. I can also attest to drifting the lwr. Squamish just above Fishermans Park and having the whole run ( about 300 meters long ) just moving with chum in huge waves. I must have moved 10 000 fish around in that run. You don't see that any more. I did a drift about 10 days ago on that same section and I saw about a dozen chum roll in that 3 miles of river. Hardly paved with them but it has improved since then. Just another reason why the eagle numbers have continued to decline here as well.
As to a opening, the local Sport Fish Advisory Board meeting is on Nove 8th and it will be discussed then but unless something spectacular happens, then I would not hold out expecting an opening. Hears to letting them spawn and actually putting eggs into the severly underseeded habitat.
My two cents worth.
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Thanks for the update as usual bkk. Can you provide some numbers so people have a better idea how the runs have been? Eg. Escapement requirement, past years final return numbers, this year's estimate to date.
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I was up on the weekend, and I didn't see a single chum. I was there on the tide. Not one. You may want to redefine "reliable source" as it very definitely isn't "paved" with chum. None of the 15 people in my sight caught anything. Typical Squamish the last couple years; anglers outnumbering fish 10:1.
Only saw one seal and it moved on as well. Only saw on set of fresh bear tracks, so either the run is late or poor, again.
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Thanks for the update as usual bkk. Can you provide some numbers so people have a better idea how the runs have been? Eg. Escapement requirement, past years final return numbers, this year's estimate to date.
All good questions Rod but the facts are that other than the BC Hydro Water Use Plan funding where they are doing population estimates on the Cheakamus, there is really no good data on chum for this system. The data from this multi year program is on the BC Hydro website, Bridge Coastal Water Use Plans. I would caution anyone who looks at those reports to take them with a grain of salt. I and a few other people don't have much faith in the estimates as we feel that there is a bias somewhere in the methology they are useing to generate the population estimates. I feel that there estimates are grossly overestimating the population by a huge amount. The only other credible information is the escapement data for Tenderfoot Creek where the fish are counted thru a counting fence. This fence has been operated since 1981 when Tenderfoot Hatchery was constructed and the chum to this stream are primarly wild fish with a small hatchery chum component. Chum returns to Tenderfoot have plummeted to historic lows on some of the recent years and significantly below the average escapement for the last 6 years. This appears to be mirroring what is happening on the watershed as a whole.It is much too early for that stream to make any kind of guess as to what size the escapement will be. This stock returns primarily in November but historically was very strong well into December. It do's appear that the fish for Tenderfoot are returning earlier now than they did in the past but that also seems to be indicative of the system as a whole. December fish are hard to find now but that was not historically the case.
This is about the best I can do but the reality on the ground is that the Squamish is operating at between 10 - 30% of what was considered a average - good escapement of only a few years ago. There is lots of protected high quality chum habitat in this sytem that is not comming close to being spawned over and has not been for a bunch of years. Maybe this year will be different and I sure hope so as chum power this whole ecosytem. from fish to grizzlies to eagles. It's a crying shame as to how quickly this system has crashed.
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Some one is selling you a line. The river has more chum in it at this time of year than the last 5 years but that is not saying alot as in those years it was just piss poor awful. Hopefully the return will continue to build but in the last couple of years we had a early push of fish and then it just stopped. Would love to see this river with hundreads of thousands of chum like it should and did have but that has not happened for a bunch of years now. Most people don't apprecieate how many chum this system had so now when they see a decent push of fish the just think it's lots. It is'nt. I've lived and fished in Squamish for 28+ years now and it used to be that you could go down to Fishermans Park on Brennen Road in mid November and it was impossible to fish spoons in the river due to chum. The whole residential neighbourhood smelled of dead chum for weeks on end. I can also attest to drifting the lwr. Squamish just above Fishermans Park and having the whole run ( about 300 meters long ) just moving with chum in huge waves. I must have moved 10 000 fish around in that run. You don't see that any more. I did a drift about 10 days ago on that same section and I saw about a dozen chum roll in that 3 miles of river. Hardly paved with them but it has improved since then. Just another reason why the eagle numbers have continued to decline here as well.
As to a opening, the local Sport Fish Advisory Board meeting is on Nove 8th and it will be discussed then but unless something spectacular happens, then I would not hold out expecting an opening. Hears to letting them spawn and actually putting eggs into the severly underseeded habitat.
My two cents worth.
LIKE
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Thanks bkk for the 2 cents worth. I guess my reliable info wasn't.
Sorry he was wrong. Oh well, I'll just keep waiting for a better year.
Let those fish regroup, and save gas money:)
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http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=147452&ID=recreational
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Pointless to open retention for fish that mostly aren't fit for consumption anymore... its mid November! Just promotes waste. Let them spawn, die, decompose and add nutrients the system so badly needs.
The Squamish has been heavily logged so it floods easily, washing out a lot of the nutrients, this is why you can go to a lot of nice water on the Squamish and its totally devoid of life. Chum and other salmon are critical to all fish and wildlife in the system because they transport nutrients from the ocean back inland. Why open it when all that happens is that nutrients that could support the ecosystem end up in a landfill?
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Pointless to open retention for fish that mostly aren't fit for consumption anymore... its mid November! Just promotes waste. Let them spawn, die, decompose and add nutrients the system so badly needs.
The Squamish has been heavily logged so it floods easily, washing out a lot of the nutrients, this is why you can go to a lot of nice water on the Squamish and its totally devoid of life. Chum and other salmon are critical to all fish and wildlife in the system because they transport nutrients from the ocean back inland. Why open it when all that happens is that nutrients that could support the ecosystem end up in a landfill?
Excellent post, Matt.
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Nice to hear chums are making a comeback.
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I should clarify. The opening is too late and to limited for it to probably have much impact on the escapement, but it just invites people who maybe haven't previously enjoyed consuming a chum with a drinking straw to go crack a fish thats unfit for consumption.
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Agree DOF should keep it closed to retention. It's become a roe for bait fishery now like all streams that allow retention.Squamish system needs a couple of cycles to recover and replenish itself.
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I think it's been about 2006 since we saw good returns. I usually fished around the 2nd week of November but other folks I talked to said there were chrome fish coming in well into December. Can't say if the opening is a good call but it was open about the same time a couple years ago and I did get into some nice silvery chum.
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Maybe a bit of clarification is in order. I was at the Sport Fish Advisory Board meeting the other night and this was discussed for a very significant amount of time. As some of you have guessed, I'm a strong advocate for the fish first and everone else second. However some valid points were raised that are significant. Firstly the amount of chum in the system this year is in the realm of what people used to consider a "normal year". While not exceptional, it is much better than has been seen for 6 years. And there still arriving. The amount of fish that will be potentionally harvested is not overly significant. A bunch of years ago, Vic Polermo of DFO conducted creel surveys of the amount of harvest. If I remember corrrectly, the retention was about 7500 fish per year on runs that were 2 and 3 fold larger than we have now. That retention was on a longer season and more area. This retention fishery will be limited in time ( 2 weeks ) and in area ( lwr. Squamish River only ). I suspect that this years retention will not even remotely come close to those catches. It will not come close to what has been harvested in the Native fishery.
The fish quality question is valid in my opion and that is the main reason that the retention will be limited to the lwr Squamish. There will still be very clean fish to be caught but there starting to thin out now but they are still there.
The other concern is will this draw up a significant amount of non local anglers to catch chum. That was considered unlikely considering this years large return and retention opportunities on the lwr. Fraser.The last chum opening in Squamish was similar timming and duration and an significant increase in anglers was not noted.
This regulation was supported with much debate by by all of the groups at the table includeing independant anglers, Streamkeepers, First Nations, Steelhead Society of BC as well as the local angling community.It was then forwarded to DFO and they agreed with the community driven recommendation. It was also pointed out that there are very few opportunities for locals to harvest fish in this area with one hatchery coho a day being the only option except in pink years. A far cry what Fraser Valley anglers have access to.
I personelly would have preferred to keep it closed but this fisheery as is now is not going to impact the escapement in any significant way. It is nice to have a bone thrown to the local anglers occasionaly because they are the once walking streams and doing stream counts. We all have a vested interest in haveing strong chum returns in this sytem and hopefully this rebuilding trend will continue. Here's to haveing a happy eagle and grizzly poulation.
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Maybe a bit of clarification is in order. I was at the Sport Fish Advisory Board meeting the other night and this was discussed for a very significant amount of time. As some of you have guessed, I'm a strong advocate for the fish first and everone else second. However some valid points were raised that are significant. Firstly the amount of chum in the system this year is in the realm of what people used to consider a "normal year". While not exceptional, it is much better than has been seen for 6 years. And there still arriving. The amount of fish that will be potentionally harvested is not overly significant. A bunch of years ago, Vic Polermo of DFO conducted creel surveys of the amount of harvest. If I remember corrrectly, the retention was about 7500 fish per year on runs that were 2 and 3 fold larger than we have now. That retention was on a longer season and more area. This retention fishery will be limited in time ( 2 weeks ) and in area ( lwr. Squamish River only ). I suspect that this years retention will not even remotely come close to those catches. It will not come close to what has been harvested in the Native fishery.
The fish quality question is valid in my opion and that is the main reason that the retention will be limited to the lwr Squamish. There will still be very clean fish to be caught but there starting to thin out now but they are still there.
The other concern is will this draw up a significant amount of non local anglers to catch chum. That was considered unlikely considering this years large return and retention opportunities on the lwr. Fraser.The last chum opening in Squamish was similar timming and duration and an significant increase in anglers was not noted.
This regulation was supported with much debate by by all of the groups at the table includeing independant anglers, Streamkeepers, First Nations, Steelhead Society of BC as well as the local angling community.It was then forwarded to DFO and they agreed with the community driven recommendation. It was also pointed out that there are very few opportunities for locals to harvest fish in this area with one hatchery coho a day being the only option except in pink years. A far cry what Fraser Valley anglers have access to.
I personelly would have preferred to keep it closed but this fisheery as is now is not going to impact the escapement in any significant way. It is nice to have a bone thrown to the local anglers occasionaly because they are the once walking streams and doing stream counts. We all have a vested interest in haveing strong chum returns in this sytem and hopefully this rebuilding trend will continue. Here's to haveing a happy eagle and grizzly poulation.
I personally think the decision made was a good one. thanks for the detailed post bkk.
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was out on the squamish lower brackendale area and only 5 fishers were there,i got a nice clean doe chum and departed,didn't see any others kept ,a few were realeased but its slow compared to past years. nice day out on the river,stopped at browning lake and got 4 rainbows quickly on a green wooley bugger.
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Driving up the Sea to Sky with a tour group yesterday AM I actually saw a school of Chums swimming toward the river right on the surface.
A decent number of fish around the Bailey Bridge and Eagle Run had a couple dozen Bald Eagles and a couple Seals on display-providing a Nation Geographic Moment for my guests from Brazil-they were WOWED!!
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bbk what is a "normal" return in terms of numbers? we have fished the river a lot this fall and have seen chum especially in the chec..... but listening to some of the old timers on the river they still say it is nothing like years past.
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....what is a "normal" return in terms of numbers? we have fished the river a lot this fall and have seen chum especially in the chec..... but listening to some of the old timers on the river they still say it is nothing like years past.
Forget numbers-normal on the mainstream Squamish below the Cheakamus is seeing the river alive with fish coming up on the high tide-I mean the water moving with thousands & thousands of Chum every hour as long as the flood lasts.
10 years ago I saw 2 Deer come down near the Big Bend-they were crossing the river but one backed out-because the water was so full of fish.
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Forget numbers-normal on the mainstream Squamish below the Cheakamus is seeing the river alive with fish coming up on the high tide-I mean the water moving with thousands & thousands of Chum every hour as long as the flood lasts.
10 years ago I saw 2 Deer come down near the Big Bend-they were crossing the river but one backed out-because the water was so full of fish.
Dogbreath is correct. Numbers kind of mean nothing as there was no proper stock assessment done but the river would be just full of chum. It was nothing to go out for 3 hours and be able to hook 50+ chum. You basically quit because you were tired of catching fish. My educated guess would be a couple of hundred thousand on a "normal" year and significantly more on a good year. There is no comparing this year to a good year. This year is not even close to being a good year. A good year would have a solid 6 weeks of chum spawning with fish continually replacing themselves on the spawning grounds until mid December. The air would just reek of rotten chum for long periods, especially if you lived in areas next to the lwr. Squamish and the Cheakamus. The groundwater spawning channels would have large rafts of dead fish and any wood or large debris in the stream would just be fuzzy with fungus. You would not want to touch the water because it stank. Locals would complain about "too many fish in the streams". That was a normal year. Still a ways to go before we reach that level again.
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For the record, the Steelhead Society was the only stakeholder to speak out against what was then an opening 'proposal'.
This regulation was supported with much debate by by all of the groups at the table includeing independant anglers, Streamkeepers, First Nations, Steelhead Society of BC as well as the local angling community.It was then forwarded to DFO and they agreed with the community driven recommendation. It was also pointed out that there are very few opportunities for locals to harvest fish in this area with one hatchery coho a day being the only option except in pink years. A far cry what Fraser Valley anglers have access to.
I personelly would have preferred to keep it closed but this fisheery as is now is not going to impact the escapement in any significant way. It is nice to have a bone thrown to the local anglers occasionaly because they are the once walking streams and doing stream counts. We all have a vested interest in haveing strong chum returns in this sytem and hopefully this rebuilding trend will continue. Here's to haveing a happy eagle and grizzly poulation.
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For the record, the Steelhead Society was the only stakeholder to speak out against what was then an opening 'proposal'.
Who were the stakeholders who spoke out for the proposal?
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Just a reminder that today is the last day of the chum salmon retention opening in the lower river.
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Rodney its 340am..Your baby must be keeping you awake.
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:-\ :-[
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On the brightside...Your not writing a marketing plan report like I am due in...err 6.hours and 9 minutes...what great fun!.....
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I spent an afternoon there recently and saw more elk than salmon.