Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: milo on September 19, 2018, 11:48:24 AM
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A friend of mine bought a large property in the Okanagan. The property includes a lake of considerable size. All land around and access to the lake is private.
There is no inflow or outflow stream.
The lake tends to winterkill because it is fairly shallow (24 feet at its deepest point), but he will install a couple of aerators to prevent this from happening.
He would like to stock it with carp and trout. The carp would go first to do a cleaning job in order to reduce muck in the summer.
The question is: can he capture live carp fry in another lake and dump it in his lake?
Another question: what would be the best source of trout fry?
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The short answer is that no he can not capture carp and move them. He do's not have a capture permit or a licence to transport live fish. These will have to be obtained from the regional Provincial fisheries biologist as well as he will need to buy the trout from the Province which the same biologist may approve. There will be lots of hoops to jump through and this will take a while if it is approved. Since carp are an invasive species I'm guessing you will not get approval to move them. Since he wants to move fish he will most likely have to get approval from the Provincial - Federal transplant committee. This will be a time consuming exercise.
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As per the BC Fishing Regulations Synopsis:
IT IS UNLAWFUL TO...
Have any live fish in your possession in the wild, or move any live fish or live aquatic invertebrates around the
province or transplant them into any waters of B.C. Do not keep angled fish alive in a
“livewell” or other device, or on stringers, and never use live fish as bait or release your aquarium fish to the wild.
“High-grading” is illegal.
Apply for permits and wait to grow older.
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He can buy some koi fish from pet store. They grow as big as wild carp and look good
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I appreciate the responses so far. I am well aware of the regulations and the permits required. We spoke to the relevant biologist who covers the area and he is willing to help, and there are several options regarding trout. My friend needs to settle on the strain he wants and they'll take it from there. But he is adamant he wants carp first, and is ready to pay for and obtain the required permits.
We just need to find suitable carp, as the Government obviously doesn't work with invasive species, and no, he does not want to go the illegal stocking route.
Koi is not an option because they don't taste as good as European carp.
What strain of trout do you think is best and why? Think taste rather than fighting ability.
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Eastern brook trout taste the best.
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Brookies would probably do better in the shallow lake as well.
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Brookies would probably do better in the shallow lake as well.
Perfect! I agree.
Thanks.
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We just need to find suitable carp, as the Government obviously doesn't work with invasive species, and no, he does not want to go the illegal stocking route.
Koi is not an option because they don't taste as good as European carp.
Where are you able to find European Common Carp (Cyprinus carpio)? From what I've read regarding the eating qualities of this species, the North American cousins are a far cry from their European brethren. Although its interesting to note that in California the original strain of Carp derived from a few imported Carp from Germany.
I'd love to dig a lake and fill it with carp. In the last few years there have been quite a few licenses granted to rear Carp for food in the UK.
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Where are you able to find European Common Carp (Cyprinus carpio)? From what I've read regarding the eating qualities of this species, the North American cousins are a far cry from their European brethren. Although its interesting to note that in California the original strain of Carp derived from a few imported Carp from Germany.
I'd love to dig a lake and fill it with carp. In the last few years there have been quite a few licenses granted to rear Carp for food in the UK.
You can find common carp of European descent in some sloughs in and around Chilliwack. Their ancestors were introduced by German immigrants in the 1950s.
I know this for a fact. I fished for them, I caught them, and I ate them. Caught in the winter months (before spawning in the spring), they taste superb.
I hope my friend manages to get his carp permit, and I am willing to help him achieve that. I know it would give him a lot of personal satisfaction.
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It may be possible to privately stock the lake with rainbow but a number of permits and licenses are likely required. First the Province's legal position is there is no such thing as a private lake in the Province. The land around the lake may all be held under 'fee simple' title but the lake itself is owned by the Crown. Essentially your friend would need a license and permit to operate a trout farm and permits to transport fish. Permits to transport are required every time fish are brought in or moved out. Next question is can the lake sustain live trout? - summer and winter can be real challenges. A good question is are there any fish living in the lake now or has it sustained fish in the past? However with some effort the lake could be made livable if it is not. Getting Brook Trout may be extremely difficult. I don't think the FFSB sells it's stock though I believe there may still be some commercial rearing of Brook trout in the US.
Lots of challenges and possibly not worth the bother or the expense.
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It may be possible to privately stock the lake with rainbow but a number of permits and licenses are likely required. First the Province's legal position is there is no such thing as a private lake in the Province. The land around the lake may all be held under 'fee simple' title but the lake itself is owned by the Crown.
Just curious now. There are many lakes around, like Silvermere in Mission and Rees in Langley, that are private property. I don’t know the who owns the water but the land under the water is privately owned.
Are you saying that the Crown considers the water to be the “lake” and the land underneath the water to be private property?
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I'll put it simply. Other than a few cases from early last century (sections of the South Alouette are examples), the water and the land below the high water mark of natural lakes the Province does not consider to be covered under fee simple title. They are public property. If it is a private pond or reservoir created after fee simple title was created, the land is still private but not the water or the fish.
I think some people are aware that the Nicola Valley Fish and Game Club vs DLCR case considered many of these issues and may address the legal aspects of the Province's policy once the judgement is released.
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I should also mention this has little significance in terms about public access. It is about who controls the water and the fish in it.
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It may be possible to privately stock the lake with rainbow but a number of permits and licenses are likely required. First the Province's legal position is there is no such thing as a private lake in the Province. The land around the lake may all be held under 'fee simple' title but the lake itself is owned by the Crown. Essentially your friend would need a license and permit to operate a trout farm and permits to transport fish. Permits to transport are required every time fish are brought in or moved out. Next question is can the lake sustain live trout? - summer and winter can be real challenges. A good question is are there any fish living in the lake now or has it sustained fish in the past? However with some effort the lake could be made livable if it is not. Getting Brook Trout may be extremely difficult. I don't think the FFSB sells it's stock though I believe there may still be some commercial rearing of Brook trout in the US.
Lots of challenges and possibly not worth the bother or the expense.
There are no fish now, but there were in the past. The lake winterkills often, but as I said, the owner is willing to install aerators to deal with that issue. We are aware of the challenges, that is why I have posted about it here, to pick some brains.
The biologist in charge will look into the carp issue, because he himself likes the idea of having grass eaters co-habitating with insect/fish eaters. Unfortunately, his hands are tied as far as the stocking part goes.
This lake lends itself to experimentation, and the new owner has the willingness and money to make it work. I'm supposed to help him navigate the red tape.
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Perhaps a work around would be to see if you can go through the Freshwater Fisheries Society of B.C.?
Might be costlier than buying private stock, but it could be a quicker route and totally above board...
I'm sure they have more direct channels to getting approvals than the standard means.
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Milo, there will be FFSBC people at the clean up. Chris or I can introduce you so you can run this by them if you like.
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Milo, there will be FFSBC people at the clean up. Chris or I can introduce you so you can run this by them if you like.
That would be fantastic Dave! Please do it. I'm looking forward to it.
It really matters to me, as I'm kind of looking at it as a possible part-time retirement project a few years down the road - to help run a private pay-to-fish operation.
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The question is: can he capture live carp fry in another lake and dump it in his lake? You ask this
I appreciate the responses so far. I am well aware of the regulations and the permits required. Then you post this????
Why ask then
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He would like to stock it with carp and trout. The carp would go first to do a cleaning job in order to reduce muck in the summer.
The question is: can he capture live carp fry in another lake and dump it in his lake?
Interesting idea to engineer a pond into a different ecosystem but I'm puzzled about why your friend thinks carp will "reduce muck" in the pond. Grass carp eat mostly rooted vegetation which tends to make ponds dirtier by stirring up sediments. Common carp eat mostly invertebrates by rooting around in the sediments and stir up the muck but not as much as grass carp. Neither are effective at eating planktonic algae in the water column which may be the "muck" he wants to reduce. There are likely better fish species for that. In a shallow pond, I would also think common carp would compete for the same invertebrate foods as the trout. And I think both needed running water to naturally reproduce so you might as look to regularly stock sterile triploids which might aleviate some objections to them being an invasive. Lots to think about....
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The question is: can he capture live carp fry in another lake and dump it in his lake? You ask this
I appreciate the responses so far. I am well aware of the regulations and the permits required. Then you post this????
Why ask then
Because I already know there are no public or private carp rearing programs in BC like there are for trout.
Once the permits are secured, there are not one, but several options to secure trout fry.
But for carp, the only source of fry I am aware of would be a lake that has carp in it already.
And because I like to pick the brain of intelligent people on a subject that interests me and I don't know much about.
Are you telling me that ALL lakes in BC that hold carp got them by means of the illegal bucket brigade?
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Because I already know there are no public or private carp rearing programs in BC like there are for trout.
Once the permits are secured, there are not one, but several options to secure trout fry.
But for carp, the only source of fry I am aware of would be a lake that has carp in it already.
And because I like to pick the brain of intelligent people on a subject that interests me and I don't know much about.
Are you telling me that ALL lakes in BC that hold carp got them by means of the illegal bucket brigade?
While appreciating your question the last thing I would want in a lake of mine or my friends would be carp. Here in the UK there are carp ponds springing up/have sprung up everywhere, lots of sacked fish being moved around the country. You end up with a muddied pond where the trout will never evr rise to a dry fly. Good luck
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Why would a person want to stock a lake or pond with any coarse fish in BC. Such as carp, sunfish perch or smallmouth bass. They are not native to BC and should not be introduced into any BC waters. I think the proper term is 'invasive' and should not be allowed...