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Author Topic: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study  (Read 78160 times)

firstlight

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #105 on: August 04, 2009, 08:09:55 PM »

So this has worked for you guys?
What letters did you write or what meetings did you attend that changed anything in sportfishing?

Looking forward to your replies as the letters that ive written in the past have allways landed on deaf ears.
Im assuming you folks have written letters just like you assumed that some of us dont. ;)
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buck

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2009, 07:43:50 AM »

Steelhawk

Chris and other members of Fishing With Rod are wrong. They thought they were gravel mining on the Fraser River but it turns out they were mining lead. I'v been told by a number of reliable
anglers that bottom bouncers rarely break off. Is that true ? No ecological problems with BB, they just leave lead in deeper water.
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DavidD

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2009, 08:15:18 AM »

Buck

I hate to be the bearer of sad news but there are a lot of Bettys in the Fraser as a result of bottom bouncing.  I don't think that there are many accessible spots that are truely 'snag free' as your reliable anglers would have you believe.  And most inexperienced fishermen who do snag up (as well as some of the experts no matter what they say), generally end up losing the BB.  :(  There is a place called Sticky bar near Hope and its NOT because of all the sap falling of the trees.

 
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Steelhawk

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #108 on: August 05, 2009, 09:42:01 AM »

To tell you the truth, I am still using lead betties I bought 3 years ago. How do I do that? I ususally break-even between snagging up and recovering betties. If you bb often enough, you know where the danger zones are and avoid drifting to them. Casting 12 oclock and keeping a tight line in the drift will help. Also when you snag up the first time, walk upstream and pull the line tight to see if you can break free. If not, look hard at the angle of the line, and using background objects to mark the exact location of the snag, and avoid drifting past that angle next time. Right now, since my target is spring, I retrieve much sooner to avoid drifting into sockeye travel zone near shore. This also avoid snagging up to near-shore debries/gravels. These techniques will minimize snagging up.

Every bber knows it is a regular thing to recover snagged betties.Those snagged betties can get loosened from the snags by being knocked around by river current or shifting gravels in the river bed. The next guy's drift can catch on the swivels or the hooks of the snagged betties and you can get a whole set hauled back to shore. The guys fishing with heavier tackles and lines are usually doing quite well in retrieving. Sometimes they break free a bad snag and they can haul in a few betties in one haul. There are also bbers who are tired of paying for betties. I have seen guys (after catching their fish) doing the savage job by hand casting out specially made rig with a weighted gaff tied to long rope, or a heavy metal mesh tied with huge hooks. They cast out and haul in with the rope. They do quite well this way. As the water recedes every week, these rigs can progressively reach to snagged betties outside. One of my bb friends also made trips in winter just to savage betties when the water level was at the lowest. I won't even want to tell you where and how 'many' he could get each time so he won't kill me for it.  ;D

Like bf, bb has new and experienced fishermen. The newbies who don't know how to cast can lose a lot more than experienced guys. But you know, usually they make up by using heavier lines than experienced bbers, so they can muscle the snags and luck out at times with a bounty of betties.

I wonder if bfers have some ways to minimize dumping massive amount of lead. Chris should get a savage team in order like what he did in cleaning up the Vedder.  ;D
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 09:49:27 AM by Steelhawk »
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BNF861

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #109 on: August 05, 2009, 09:45:17 AM »

Last time i went around to a couple bars in the early spring, with the water down, i found literally a hundred or so bettys at a popular bb bar, At a poplular barfin' bar, i found only a handful of wedge weights. End of the day i had more weight in bettys than wedges. This is hardly the point of this thread, just thought i would state my observations.

I agree with some that the study is flawed in that the test is under ideal conditions and too short of a time to really tell the consequences. A lot of these fish have a very far journey still ahead of them, including much difficulter water than the lower region of the fraser offers. I can see the point of the test, to prove the impact isn't as much as FN claims, so they don't just close the whole river in general, but this year at this time with the water temps what they are, is not the time to carry out this test. With water temps like this, it is hard enough on fish period, let alone if they are caught or not. Last weekend i was up in horesfly visiting friends. I had planned on flyfishing for the big rainbows the river is known for. The river is catch/release and fly fish only, and the day before i got there they closed the river due to abnormaly high water tempature and the high mortality rates assosiated with catch and releasing fish under those circumstances.
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milo

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #110 on: August 05, 2009, 10:20:30 AM »

Last time i went around to a couple bars in the early spring, with the water down, i found literally a hundred or so bettys at a popular bb bar, At a poplular barfin' bar, i found only a handful of wedge weights. End of the day i had more weight in bettys than wedges.

It is quite logical that you won't find too many wedges. They are 'wedged' in the deep bottom, never to move - never to be seen again. Betties are round and much lighter...they keep rolling, moving, till they make it to shallower water where they can be found.

Either way, there's too much lead in the river. Wish tungsten came cheaper. Seriously.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 10:38:22 AM by milo »
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Steelhawk

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #111 on: August 05, 2009, 11:36:21 AM »

Exactly right, Milo. The Fraser has strong flows with tons of shifting gravels. Any heavy objects will sink and slowly covered. Try put your feet in some beaches facing pounding surfs with drifting sands. Soon your feets get covered and buried. To recover those lead slabs wedged deeply, you probably need a metal detector.  ;D
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hue-nut

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #112 on: August 05, 2009, 03:31:22 PM »

my brother and I were talking about it this morning on our drive out to hope (at 3:30 in the morning).....the fact that fishermen are absolutely ridiculous!!!! a poor return of sockeye and we pull out the knives and start stabbing......each other, whining and complaining about each others perceived impact on the fishery (no real scientific evidence of course, just assumptions) . We need a psychologist to sort this crap out and remind us that we are on the same team fishing with the "single barbless" ...regardless of whether our weights wear a protective "rubber" ;)
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DionJL

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #113 on: August 05, 2009, 03:48:43 PM »

So this has worked for you guys?
What letters did you write or what meetings did you attend that changed anything in sportfishing?

Looking forward to your replies as the letters that ive written in the past have allways landed on deaf ears.
Im assuming you folks have written letters just like you assumed that some of us dont. ;)

Has bickering on FWR or any other site for that matter EVER had even the slightest possibility of accomplishing anything? No. Writing letters, joining clubs, attending meetings, all have at least a slight possibility of having your voice heard.
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firstlight

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #114 on: August 05, 2009, 04:53:10 PM »

Oh so you must have proof of your letter writing and what it accomplished then Dion?
I would be very interested to know who you wrote to that got things done because im not writing to the correct people apperently.

I dont call it bickering.I call it educating the ill informed and you know what,these forums have had and impact as there are people that will no longer floss after being educated on these forums.
I can back up my claim,can you? ;D
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DionJL

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #115 on: August 05, 2009, 05:06:43 PM »

Bruce,
I never claimed to write letters to anyone or sit in on meetings as I don't. So I do not have proof.

Call it what you want it's still pointless banter back and forth. And I wonder if you've actually convinced someone one not to floss or if you've just intimidated them not to.
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firstlight

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #116 on: August 05, 2009, 10:19:05 PM »

I dont think any one person convinced any other but i do know for a fact that some people stopped flossing once they realised that the fish werent biting.
They realised this fact because of the so called flossing threads of the past and the info. that was gained from them.

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Steelhawk

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #117 on: August 06, 2009, 04:53:54 PM »

During the time of Harcourt & Moe Shiota, they tried to cut funding on lake stocking especially hatchery steelhead. That would mean people would be tempted to poach for wild steelhead and that would spell the doom of wild steelies across the Province, as well as lakes & streams would be fished out without fish replenishment. That would be disastrous. These politicians only looked at $$$ instead of the costs to fish stocks and to people's way of life.

I personally wrote to them both explaining that they would be the ones remembered for killing the wild steelhead, as well as young folks across the province losing interest in a good hobby like fishing if there is nothing to fish, which may then lead them into bad hobbies such as drugs, gangs, womanizing and boosts and would be a much more expensive social problems to fix. The 300K they tried to cut/save would end up costing them millions. I also made copies of petition forms at local tackle stores for fishers to sign up for our politicians to see and hear the uproar. Well, many other concerned fishermen joined in the fight. The politicians changed course. I personally receieved a letter from Shiota that he thanks us for voicing the opinion, and they realized the possible damage of their actions. Funding cut was halted. Future fishery was not harmed. I am a BBer on the Fraser and don't you think for a minute that BBers are sitting around doing nothing when it counts. The so called me-right-you-wrong or holier-than-thou attitude just because you bf or you attend meetings, join a club and others do not has got to change. Other people can choose to do this like you, or do some of it like writing letters. That does not mean they don't care.

Consistently putting pressures on people who do not share your idea about fishing and what makes ethical fishing is just not going to unite the fishermen brotherhood. Fish are caught by so many different effective ways all over the world, even in this country, and people of this province come from so many diversed ethnic and national backgrounds. Trying to impose on others your narrow view about fishing ethics applicable to yourself in a public media, armed with dirty terms like snagger, snagging, meat fishermen, is to me like spreading hate among fishermen brotherhood. Educating is one thing, shaming, bashing and trashing is a dirty technique used by PETA and organizations like that. The mere fact that there is hardly any fishing reports from the bb bars, or the lack of people daring to claim they bb is a proof that people are avoiding the shaming and bashing game which has been going on here. BBing is a legitimate fishing method on the Fraser accepted by DFO (as no one has been ticketed) and choosing to bounce or not is entirely up to the individual's unfretted freedom of choice in this plural society of ours. Leave people alone to fish in peace as long as they fish legally. DFO can always impose a leader lenght restriction on the smaller systems if they wish to. Leave the legal and legitimate issue of fishing to the governing body of fishing and speak no evils against your fishing brothers if they are not breaking any laws. Just my 2 cents on the subject.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 05:05:12 PM by Steelhawk »
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hue-nut

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #118 on: August 06, 2009, 06:05:45 PM »

During the time of Harcourt & Moe Shiota, they tried to cut funding on lake stocking especially hatchery steelhead. That would mean people would be tempted to poach for wild steelhead and that would spell the doom of wild steelies across the Province, as well as lakes & streams would be fished out without fish replenishment. That would be disastrous. These politicians only looked at $$$ instead of the costs to fish stocks and to people's way of life.

I personally wrote to them both explaining that they would be the ones remembered for killing the wild steelhead, as well as young folks across the province losing interest in a good hobby like fishing if there is nothing to fish, which may then lead them into bad hobbies such as drugs, gangs, womanizing and boosts and would be a much more expensive social problems to fix. The 300K they tried to cut/save would end up costing them millions. I also made copies of petition forms at local tackle stores for fishers to sign up for our politicians to see and hear the uproar. Well, many other concerned fishermen joined in the fight. The politicians changed course. I personally receieved a letter from Shiota that he thanks us for voicing the opinion, and they realized the possible damage of their actions. Funding cut was halted. Future fishery was not harmed. I am a BBer on the Fraser and don't you think for a minute that BBers are sitting around doing nothing when it counts. The so called me-right-you-wrong or holier-than-thou attitude just because you bf or you attend meetings, join a club and others do not has got to change. Other people can choose to do this like you, or do some of it like writing letters. That does not mean they don't care



Consistently putting pressures on people who do not share your idea about fishing and what makes ethical fishing is just not going to unite the fishermen brotherhood. Fish are caught by so many different effective ways all over the world, even in this country, and people of this province come from so many diversed ethnic and national backgrounds. Trying to impose on others your narrow view about fishing ethics applicable to yourself in a public media, armed with dirty terms like snagger, snagging, meat fishermen, is to me like spreading hate among fishermen brotherhood. Educating is one thing, shaming, bashing and trashing is a dirty technique used by PETA and organizations like that. The mere fact that there is hardly any fishing reports from the bb bars, or the lack of people daring to claim they bb is a proof that people are avoiding the shaming and bashing game which has been going on here. BBing is a legitimate fishing method on the Fraser accepted by DFO (as no one has been ticketed) and choosing to bounce or not is entirely up to the individual's unfretted freedom of choice in this plural society of ours. Leave people alone to fish in peace as long as they fish legally. DFO can always impose a leader lenght restriction on the smaller systems if they wish to. Leave the legal and legitimate issue of fishing to the governing body of fishing and speak no evils against your fishing brothers if they are not breaking any laws. Just my 2 cents on the subject.


word! great post steelhawk
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fraser River sockeye salmon C&R study
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2009, 08:41:06 PM »

Well said! A voice of reason and balance!
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Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[