Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fly Fishing Cafe => Topic started by: halcyonguitars on September 22, 2015, 03:45:14 PM
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Just got a fly rod for the first time and have been practicing casting.
I'm just curious, what should a reasonable casting distance expectation be?
I'm able to get down nearly to the backing, right to it every now and then.
With a 9' rod, what can be accomplished?
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IF your getting to the backing then your doing extremely well for a new caster. On my best days I can get out 10-20 feet of backing through the rod tip. Never is this necessary except the odd time beach fishing. My normal range of distance is probably more like 30-80' depending on lakes or rivers and how far I need to go to reach the fish. I very seldom need to go more than 60' on a lake, it's a lot easier to just move the boat closer to the fish LoL ;)
Is your fly line one of the cheaper 55-60' lines or a full 90' fly line ?
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I've never had the need to cast to my backing. The local fishing opportunities don't really require that type of distance. If I want to bomb line I pull out the Sage Z Axis Spey Rod.
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Not sure, probably the 55 length. It's a Redington combo kit, so I wouldn't expect top of the line er...line.
Just went back out to the park and was able to shoot line kinda consistent, but I don't think I'm ready to try it with a hook yet. I think I'd end up turning my waders into a pin cushion. I think I'm pretty reliable out to say 30-35 ft, that has to be enough for most of the places I know of to fish, save for maybe ambleside or furry creek. But I have all winter to get ready for that. See some pretty amazing casting there for sure.
Talking with my roommate, who has fly fished before, he told me that the 'left hand thing everyone does' is called double haul, and that was definitely enough to get another 15 feet.
Rather fun, really...
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IF your getting to the backing then your doing extremely well for a new caster. On my best days I can get out 10-20 feet of backing through the rod tip. Never is this necessary except the odd time beach fishing. My normal range of distance is probably more like 30-80' depending on lakes or rivers and how far I need to go to reach the fish. I very seldom need to go more than 60' on a lake, it's a lot easier to just move the boat closer to the fish LoL ;)
Is your fly line one of the cheaper 55-60' lines or a full 90' fly line ?
x2 I have read that most fish are hooked within 40 feet of the boat.
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There is a single haul and a double haul. Single is when you pull the line with your free hand on the backcast motion, double haul is when you pull the line simultaneously as your doing your forward cast. The double is great for doing big long shoots but is mainly used to create better line speeds for distance and/or accuracy.
there is hardly ever a need to cast your entire fly line out however being able to do so is a bonus if you're ever presented with a situation in which you need to and don't have the option of grabbing another setup at the time (like a spey or switch rod)
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Turns out it's easier to cast on grass. About 30' in the stream at best. More practice...:)
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distance is less than half the game when it comes to fly casting to catch fish. In trout fishing most fish are caught within 30 feet of where the angler is standing. Also as important if not more so in many situations is accuracy, delicacy (landing the line on the water with a minimum of splash or disturbance), line handling and mending and how quickly you can cast the distance you need to cast. Best skill I ever learned was how to cast 60 to 70 feet or more with a single back cast. Best lesson was if you are false casting more than 3x you are wasting fishing time and energy. If you can cast 30 to 40 feet reasonably well you have the distance you need so concentrate on the other aspects - that will make you a better fisher.
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I am definitely wasting time and efficiency, no doubt there at all...:)
More practice I guess. Shucks, I'll have to go fishing!
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Best lesson was if you are false casting more than 3x you are wasting fishing time and energy.
Great suggestion here by RalphH - I subscribe to the same belief and it's been one of the best casting tips I've ever applied (along with "slow down so your rod can load" and "turn your head and watch each backcast").
First back cast is from picking up your line.
Second back cast is to get some additional line out to "load" your rod.
Third back cast should be to finish loading your rod and prepare to shoot the line forward.
If you three backcasts only allows you to cast 20 feet, then that's good enough for now. Force yourself to stick to the 3 false cast rule and it will FORCE you to learn the right technique to get more line out. If you allow yourself too many false casts you'll always be able to wiggle out a bit more line, but you're not really learning the proper technique.
Cheers!
Tex
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Great suggestion here by RalphH - I subscribe to the same belief and it's been one of the best casting tips I've ever applied (along with "slow down so your rod can load" and "turn your head and watch each backcast").
First back cast is from picking up your line.
Second back cast is to get some additional line out to "load" your rod.
Third back cast should be to finish loading your rod and prepare to shoot the line forward.
If you three backcasts only allows you to cast 20 feet, then that's good enough for now. Force yourself to stick to the 3 false cast rule and it will FORCE you to learn the right technique to get more line out. If you allow yourself too many false casts you'll always be able to wiggle out a bit more line, but you're not really learning the proper technique.
Cheers!
Tex
X3 At one of the urban lakes I witnessed a guy false cast 19 timesbefore finally making his cast. You can hear the whoosh, whoosh whoosh as his flyline was going back and forth.
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There is a single haul and a double haul. Single is when you pull the line with your free hand on the backcast motion, double haul is when you pull the line simultaneously as your doing your forward cast.
I'm pretty sure you meant the double haul is pulling the with your free hand on both the back cast and again on the forecast.
One of the objectives of the double haul is shooting line. This is when the caster lets go of the line held with the free hand (left hand for rh casters) when the forward cast is completed or when the back cast is completed. The free line will hopefully shoot through the guides and off the top of the rod. This can add 5 to 10 or more meters to the cast. Most people shoot line on the forward cast. Shooting on the back cast is for accomplished casters. I do it sometimes. It's a neat trick to get a lot of line out in a hurry.
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Hmm, I'm doing it both stroke, so double haul. But getting more like 5ft in real life.
Guess I need to practice again tomorrow afternoon. At least by the end of last session I was able to keep the back cast off the rocks. Smashed quite a few flies on them in the morning. Popped quite a few too like a bullwhip which has to be about timing...
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I'm pretty sure you meant the double haul is pulling the with your free hand on both the back cast and again on the forecast.
One of the objectives of the double haul is shooting line. This is when the caster lets go of the line held with the free hand (left hand for rh casters) when the forward cast is completed or when the back cast is completed. The free line will hopefully shoot through the guides and off the top of the rod. This can add 5 to 10 or more meters to the cast. Most people shoot line on the forward cast. Shooting on the back cast is for accomplished casters. I do it sometimes. It's a neat trick to get a lot of line out in a hurry.
Yes and No however I believe I said it correctly the first time. Single haul is when you pull the line as the rod goes behind you, the double haul is when the rod comes forward. In order to call it a double haul you need to be doing both. When I started fly fishing I could only do a single for awhile until I learned the proper way to get in the double haul, lots of new casters can only single haul because it's easier and feels more natural. Now I do them without even thinking about it 99% of the time (I get lazy when casting short distance)
Biggest thing is whether your having fun out there learning
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Biggest thing is whether your having fun out there learning
X2
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Oh I am! Can't wait til I actually catch something:)
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Yes and No however I believe I said it correctly the first time. Single haul is when you pull the line as the rod goes behind you, the double haul is when the rod comes forward.
sorry I have never heard it described other than as I stated. A single haul can be on either for or back. But whatever ... learning to do it right is the real challenge. A double haul is 4 times harder! Apparently most people use too long a pull with the free hand.
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I find the timing on the back haul is tricky, so I just haul on the forward stroke and take it easy on the one just before I cast. I'm likely not doing it totally properly but it helps to lay my leader out straight.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but maybe this will help us both catch a coho on the fly. In moving water .. let's say for coho where you strip ... where do you cast and at what point do you start stripping?
Let's say you're using a 10 ft type three sinktip or polyleader.
Cast at 12' o clock, quick mend, let it swing to 10' o clock and then start stripping? Or do you swing it into the spot you wanna fish (judging by floating portion of line) and then strip from there?
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I play drums and guitar, so doing things independently with my hand is not so hard for me, just need more practice to get the rhythms right.
As for the where to cast, I don't know...
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I played the drums too... but I was terrible.. haha. Explains the bad hauling. This video helped me with the rhythm. I just emulated him, fake it till you make it I say..if this screws you over or teaches you bad habits, I apologize in advance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mvpmFyrfwk
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but maybe this will help us both catch a coho on the fly. In moving water .. let's say for coho where you strip ... where do you cast and at what point do you start stripping? Let's say you're using a 10 ft type three sinktip or polyleader. Cast at 12' o clock, quick mend, let it swing to 10' o clock and then start stripping? Or do you swing it into the spot you wanna fish (judging by floating portion of line) and then strip from there?
It all depends on water depth and or speed. I feel that Coho prefer a stripped fly rather than a swung fly, so I will cast at whatever angle is required to allow me to start stripping the fly as soon as possible,AND as long as it has hit the correct depth (i.e. 1-2 foot off the bottom). So my casting direction and strip will vary depending on my perception of the water depth and speed, and this will often vary within each specific run I am fishing (considering flows and depths in the head, gut and tail are often very different). In addition to covering the water in quadrants, I will also vary my cast anywhere between 10am and 2 pm if I am unsure of water depth or until I feel bottom. All the above will also vary depending on leader length, weight and sparseness or fluffiness ( ;D) of your fly.
So I guess I am more inclined to follow the later approach you suggest i.e. to swing or dead drift (with a high stick) my fly to the correct depth at where I suspect the fish are holding, and then strip, strip, strip.
Some think that learning to cast a fly is difficult. Unfortunately its not that difficult compared to figuring out how to get the right fly to where the fish are and to figure out what they want.
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Even with a the heaviest versatip, I was never able to get a fly more than a foot deep. The versatip would sag I a 'u' shape, but I could still see the fly at a foot deep. Do I need to buy a sinking line?
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You likely just need to shorten your leader, and or use a heavier/denser fly.
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Yes, use a short leader in the 3-4 foot range if fishing fast sinking tips. Use a weighted fly only if that doesn't get you down enough. Either way, my recommendation is leave the moving water to the gear guys, find some slack water where all the coho are hanging out and have some fun catching fish instead of struggling to get your fly down. As for when to start stripping, it is really going to depend on where the fish are holding. I like to start stripping when I think the fly is right over the head of the fish. Too soon or too late and they may not see it clearly or may feel it is not worth the effort to attack it. You want to trigger that aggressive attack where the energy to chase the fly is suddenly worth it.
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Halcyonguitars
Check out the internet. I was never able to double haul for years and then I watched some instructional videos and went to the park for a few practice sessions. I can now
do a decent double.
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Internet checked thrice daily, would that I could apply practice as often:)
I have about a 6-8 foot leader. What I noticed is that the bright green floating line seems to spook the fishies, so I've been trying to get as much space between it and the fly as I can manage. I see a lot of guys catching fish with completely clear fly lines.
As for finding the right water, I only know of so many places which are what they are, and are different every time. Still super fun!
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Some think that learning to cast a fly is difficult. Unfortunately its not that difficult compared to figuring out how to get the right fly to where the fish are and to figure out what they want.
Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate it.
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X2
I don't even bother perfecting my cast when fishing rivers...waterload the line, one back cast, one single haul, and presto! Out it goes! So it isn't pretty to watch, so what? It catches fish! Casting smoothly long distances is truly overrated unless you are casting dry flies to finicky rising trout.
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I don't even bother perfecting my cast when fishing rivers...waterload the line, one back cast, one single haul, and presto! Out it goes! So it isn't pretty to watch, so what? It catches fish! Casting smoothly long distances is truly overrated unless you are casting dry flies to finicky rising trout.
Sounds like my river fly casting. Let's just say it ain't pretty but it works.
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Even with a the heaviest versatip, I was never able to get a fly more than a foot deep. The versatip would sag I a 'u' shape, but I could still see the fly at a foot deep. Do I need to buy a sinking line?
Nope, with the type 6 or 8 versi tip you should be able to dredge the bottom in 4-6 feet of water fairly quickly unless the flow is fairly high. If you can still see your fly is less than 1 foot deep with the heaviest tip, you may have mixed them up (i.e. put on a type 3 as opposed to the 6 or 8) or you did not buy the heavy one and/or where you are fishing the flow is fairly strong. If the versi tip is sagging in a U shape, it probably means your fly was overly buoyant and large so that it held up the end of the sink tip. Also make sure the fly is getting thoroughly wet and not a dry fly (sorry if this is obvious).
My suggestions can all be used in combination to maximize the sink rate to get your fly down; 1) find slower flowing water, 2) use a weighted fly, either lead wrapped, with a bead or dumbbell eyes, 3) use a spare fly which will be less buoyant and sinks faster, especially if it is has a bead, like a sparse rolled muddler, like this:
(https://cutthroatsgalore.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/dscf7360.jpg)
and 4) cast upstream to let the line and fly have greater time to sink .
If you have a versi tip system then you will also have a clear (slime line) tip which has a slow sink rate in the region of 1 inch/second. With this line you can get away with very short leaders in the 2-3 foot region, but it does not sink very fast, so only works well on frog water, back eddies etc or in combination with the other suggestions above. I do not typically use this line if water depth is more than 4-5 feet in flowing water unless the flow is relatively slow.
I doubt the mainline is spooking the fish, its more likely the delivery of the line onto the water surface. Coho may be easily spooked by the fly line in still water, but remember when looking up they only see a silhouette against a bright sky so the colour is probably unimportant.
The completely clear lines are often called slime lines and are slow to intermediate sinking lines. They are not used to prevent spooking fish. I have caught pinks and chum on brightly coloured fly lines with less than 3 feet of 15 lbs leader. Trust me they are not worried or spooked by your fly line. Trout in very clear and shallow water may be a different matter, but the colour or clarity of your line is not that important.
If you want to fish deeper in faster water, by all means buy a full sinking line, which you can also use in lakes to great effect. However, you will need another reel or spool and please note that you will initially find it more difficult to cast as you will need to retrieve all the line to drag it out of the water, rather than flick the main line off the surface, and spend more time false casting it back out.
Hope some of that made sense.
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Thanks Knnn,
A lot of that did make sense.
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Don't forget to learn proper MENDING to help your sink tip and fly to reach depth quicker. Sometimes you only need a little baby mend, sometimes a big huge mend or even a downstream mend. Every type of mending has it's place. Most of the time you'll be using an upstream mend however
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Will look into that...
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--take a lesson...before you pick up a bunch of habbits and hitches that will take years to correct.
--I take casting lessons twice a year... for the fun of it.
--I most often take a beginners class... as this brings back the fundimentals of the cast.
--Take a video of your cast and you may be surprised that it does not look anywhere near what you think you are doing.
--When practicing.. I usually take a 3 wt and a slow 6 wt... so I can switch back and forth to get a feel for the difference.
--Also cast to targets rather than just flinging it out there. Alternate between different targets.
--At some point you will add your own signature to the cast.
--I liken it to pro golfers...you often see that they do not always follow the ..classic swing.. but the end result is a well struck ball.
--That is not to say that a hacker cannot have fun on the course or that they will sometimes get a par.
--They just are not as likely to replicate the outcome as often as one who practices.
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There are some excellent posts here - thank you all :)