Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spawn Sack on March 13, 2013, 10:29:04 PM
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So I've decided this year to treat myself to a new baitcasting reel. I already have two: A Shimano Cardiff 401, and an Abu Garcia 6501 C3. I've had both reels for about 4 years and love them both dearly, especially the 6501 C3. I use the 6501 more for steelheading, so my new reel will be to replace the Cardiff for Spings, Chum, etc. I fish mainly on the Vedder and Chehailus. I'm planning to spool the Cardiff up with some braid and devote it to the occasional trip to the Fraser for bottom bouncing.
My Budget is around $300 before tax. At first I was planning to buy the Calcutta B 401. My local tackle shop has it on sale for $259.95, pretty hard to go wrong with that. But...well...aside from having better internal components than my Cardiff 401, it's pretty much the same reel. I've fished with a few buddies Calcutta B's and could notice that yes they are a bit smoother, and the drag was a bit nicer, and they would probably last longer. But if I'm going to go out and drop over $300 on a reel I don't really need in the first place, I want something different.
After checking out a lot of baitcasters in the store, I'm definitely leaning towards a low-profile baitcaster instead of another round baitcaster. I like the way they feel in the hand more, and hell they just look cool. The two I have my choices narrowed down to are the Shimano Curado 301E, and the Abu Garcia Revo Toro. Unlike most low-pro baitcasters, these two have decent line capacity. Most others have way less capacity and would never work for me.
I'm leaning more towards the Curado as it has a very good reputation and has been around for a while. The Revo Toro feels pretty sweet, but it is new and has few reviews, so I'm a bit hesitant.
One thing that puzzles me a bit is the choice of gear ratios. I understand what the gear ratio is. For example, my Cardiff is 5.2:1, and my 6501 C3 is 5.3:1. The Curado 301E is 6.2:1. The Revo Toro comes in 5.4:1, or 6.4:1 (the HS model). You can also get the Revo Toro "Winch" model which is 4.6:1.
Does any one have any advice on the "best" gear ratio? I realize that the higher gear ratio will retrieve line faster, and the lower ratio will have a bit more cranking power. If I get the Curado I only have the one choice (6.2:1), but if I get the Revo I can get 4.6:1, 5.4:1, or 6.4:1. I'm tempted to get the 5.4:1 as it's closest to the reels I already have and like.
Any other advice would be appreciated. Although I'm sure there are other good brands of baitcasting reels (Diawa, Penn, etc) I am only considering reels made by Shimano and Abu Garcia as they are what I know and like.
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Shimano curado I think has more reputation behind it and I haven't heard a bad thing about it. I also don't trust the Abu as I think they are all made in china where as some Shimano are still made in Japan. You may also want to look at first light fishing tackle and riverside fly and tackle they have a few alternet brands which are worth looking into mostly ryobi. Gorge the reel tech at riverside use to work for Shimano fixing them and he swears by ryobi reels.
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Can't comment on either reels but if you're just using it for float fishing I'd personally get the higher ratio to pick up your line after a drift. + more casts = more fish. :)
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One thing to consider is that the low profile baitcasters have very small drag washers.
I use the Curado 200E7 for steelhead, coho and chum in slack water with braid. It is extremely nice to fish and I haven't come close to needing more line capacity. The faster gear ratio certainly allows me to make a lot more drifts than a 5:1 reel. You can't reel under load without destroying the gears so the lower ratio doesn't allow you to 'winch' in fish faster.
For large fish in fast water I use an Abu C3 which has upgraded bearings and drag. I think the Curado 300E will be no match for an Upper Vedder spring.
Can't comment on BBing.
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In my opinion if the reel is for Springs and Chum go with the 400 the Currado is nice but the drag "I" find is not really strong enough for the Big guys.
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For steelhead and coho, I use a Curado 201E7 and it works beautifully.
However, my Curado is the old E series, not the new G series.
For bigger springs, where you are looking for stronger drag, Curado 301 would be the ticket.
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Im putting a new ABU revo toro low profile reel through the paces this winter steelhead season.So far so good. It is so silky smooth! Love it! ;D
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Thanks a lot for the helpful replies guys. Glad to hear you like the Revo Toro Dennis T. Do you have the regular (5.4:1) or the HS (6.4:1)? What LB test are you spooling it up with? Any issues with line capacity?
From my experience and from guys I've talked to, the new Abu's are not what they used to be. Aparentlly the lower end (6500s, etc) see a lot of returns. However this reel definitley appears to be higher end and I'm considering buying one.
It's about the same price as the Curado 301E, but the Toro has more line capacity. Toro has more drag (20lbs) compared to the Curados 15lbs.
Place where I get my reels serviced says Curado/Shimano all the way! However he also says Dodge all the way and his truck is in the shop every couple months for a warranty repair. Makes me wonder...
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I have the ABU Revo Toro winch model, and its spooled with 12 pd Maxima ultra green line. Maxima Ultra green is all i ever use for mainline.Lots of spool capacity,more then enough for a Vedder steelhead. I fish 10pd or 8pd leader depending on water conditions.
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Another alternative route is to make your 6501 C3 a multi-purpose reel. Just upgrade it by throwing in a dual ball bearing worm gear, ceramic pawl, carbontex drag, ball bearing idler gear, etc. You can also buy spare gear in various speeds from Abu. I have a TGC 6000 with the above upgrades and use it for everything. I also have the 6.3:1, 5.3:1, and 3.8:1 gears that are easily swapped within minutes. The reel has caught everything from 30+lb Chinook no problems as well as down to smaller trout. With the upgrades and different viscosity oils, you can throw the smallest gear out no problems. Just another route to consider….
Ive yet to have problems with the 6.3 gears although I don’t use those gears as often as the 5.3. I’ve heard from some friends who use the higher speed gears that with braided line and high drag setting the teeth in the gears can be ground down a little quicker depending how often you fish and what you’re targeting. Faster ratio=more teeth in gears= weaker strength compared to slower gears with larger teeth. I like the 5.3 gears the best, just a solid stand by; its not sluggish and its fast
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Thanks a lot guys! Dennis.t, I'm curious why you went with the Revo Winch over the standard Revo or the Revo HS? How do you find the lower gear ratio? It seems to me that it would be a lot more work when throwing hundreds of casts in a day on the river, but I've never used a reel with a gear ratio that low so I'm more or less talking out my a**.
I was in Whole Sale Sports today looking at the Revo Toro, Currado 301E, and Calcutta 401B. All beauty reels, tough choice which to buy!
Between the Currado and Calcutta the two staff working the fishing counter agreed that the Calcutta is the better choice for my purposes as is holds more line and is more designed for float fishing on rivers. However they also agreed that the Curado E is equivelent in quality to the Calcutta, and is also a great choice.
They said the Revo Toro is also a beauty reel and lots of guys like it, but they would be very surprised if over the long haul it holds up as well as the Calcutta or Curado.
Who really knows. I'm more of a Shimano guy so I think it'l be down to the Curado or Calcuttta. Calcutta is $40 less too.
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I just had another thought: With the Revo Toro, it only lists up to 14LB test with the line capacity ratings. Does this mean that 14LB is the thickest line one should spool the reel with? In other words, could you spool it up with 20LB?
I like to run 20LB Maxima as my mainline for springs, chum, etc. I fish a lot of fast water for big salmon and often anything less than 15LB leader is likely to snap. For slower water I'll fish one of my lighter rods and reels with lighter line. My new baitcaster is to replace my Cardiff 401 which I use for big salmon.
The Curado and Calcutta are both rated up to 20LB test in the line capacity stats. I'm curious why Abu Garcia only gave #'s up to 14LB test for the spool capacity. These are the kind of questions that keep me awake at nihgt, haha!
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I have a Daiwa Luna 300 that I've fished for just over a year now. It's a solid reel and feels very smooth compared to The Abu Garcia 6501C that I fished before it. Something to consider anyhow. Good luck with the search
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When i bought the ABU revo toro winch reel,it was on sale at a great price from Cabelas. I didnt do my research i guess. Wasnt aware it has a lower gear ratio? I dont find the retrieve any different then my other levewlwinds ( Abus and shimanos) The jury is still out wether it will last the punishment i put it through in a season. So far,so good.I still do think however the Gold Calcutta is still the best levelwind ever made. Just wanted to try sometning different this yr!
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Yes the Revo Toro comes in the lowest gear ratio (the Winch) which you have, then one up from that, then the "HS" which has the highest gear ratio.
Although I quite like the Toro, I've decided to stick with what I know, which is Shimano. It's either going to be the Calcutta 401B, or the Curado 301E. The Calcutta is currently going for $259, and the Curado $279.
I'll mainly be using this my new reel on the Vedder for Springs, Chum, etc. I'll be putting it on a Shimano Technium 11"6 med/heavy rod. I love this rod for muscling strong fish out of strong water.
The specs for the two reels side by side are:
Calcutta: 5.0:1 gears, 11.7 oz, 160 yards of 20lb on the spool, 17.5lb max drag.
Curado: 6.2:1 gears, 10.6 oz, 120 yards of 20lb on the spool, 15lb max drag.
It seems that everyone and their dog has the Calcutta 400B, and it is such a proven river reel I'm tempted to get it as a no brainer. However I really like the feel of the Curado in the hand, and although it's not nearly as popular on the river, I know a few guys that own one and love it. The spool capacity is less, but should still be sufficent for the Vedder, Chehailus. My new reel will NOT be bottom bouncing on the Fraser!
And opinions on CalcuttaB vs. Curado300E for my purposes?
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I have quantum Pro tour I paid around $250 for.
Smooth as a baby's bum and reels the line in a second.
http://www.quantumfishing.com/series/2/65/Baitcast.aspx
I don't own a shimano low profile reel so don't know how they rate but judging by other Shimano reels they are top notch.
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Looks like a pretty sweet reel. I'ven'y never used a Quantum before. Unfortunately this one doesnt have have spool capacity I need for the LB test I typicaly use.
If anyone has used both the Calcutta B (ideally the 400 size) and the Curado (ideally the 300E size) and has an opinion on one vs the other, Id like to hear it. IMO the Calcutta is the better buy, but I like the Curado better. Still undecided.
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a low profile on that 11'6 will probably not balance very well you should try both in the store I have that 11'6 fitted with a 400B I have a Currado 300 fitted to the 10'6
Just my personal experience but try them both see what you like.
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That's a good idea! Never thought of that.Umm...how do you tell if a reel balances well with a rod? I believe you put the reel on with no tackle, just the line on the spool, then find the balance point by leveling it on your finger. If I remember right if the rod/reel is balanced perfectly then it will balance right where you hand wouldgo behind the trigger on the rid. Is this right? If not please tele how you determine if a rod/reel is balanced well. Thanks I never thought of the balance!
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I have the Curado 200E on my 11'6" custom rod and it is way more comfortable than using my Abu C3 on it. I can hold it high (for hero drifts :P) all day without getting tired.
I find that balance is less important than swing weight. I have the benfefit that my rod uses lighter component closer to the tip so it inherently has less swing weight and balances better than any factory rod.
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Spawn Sack if you plan on running 20lb mainline you're going to hate a low profile reel unless if you run a braided mainline. You will never get the capacity you will need judging by the posts you're making about the water you fish and the species you target.
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This'll do. Very smooth and quiet, and it floats for easier mending.
(http://www.powerpro.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/power_pro_v2/products/powerpro_super_slick/hi-vis_yellow.image.-image.dash.450.0.jpeg)
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Jonny Canuck, I hear what you're saying about the spool capacity on the low pro baitcasters, most would not be suitable for my purposes. However the Curado 300E is not bad. It'll hold 120 yards of 20lb mono, compared to 160 yards on the 400B Calcutta. My Cardiff has the identical spool size as the Calcutta, and Ive asked myself...have I ever been down to my last 40 yards of mainline while fighting a fish? I doubt it.
Normally when I go to respool the Cardiff with 20lb Maxima the last 50 yards or so are perfectly new looking. I think 120 yards of of mono would be sufficent. Agree? I suppouse with 120 of line I run the slight risk of having a monster take all my line; however, if a fish gets into the fast water and is a lost cause I normally don't have any trouble with straightening the rod and snapping the leader. Most fish I hook and land probably have no more than 50 yards of line out. I like to hookem' and power them into shore, I release a lot of fish so I don't like to tire them out any more than is necessary.
Ive tried braid for float fishing on the Vedder, Chehailus, etc. Not for me. I dont like the way it comes of the spool, dont like the zero strech, etc. For fishing the Fraser and other applications I like it a lot. If I buy the Calcutta or Curado it will only be used for float fishing and will likely be spooled up with 20lb Maxima.
I think I'll bring the rod I'm going use put the new reel on into the shop and see how the Calcutta and Curado balance on it. If one balances the rod better than the other that'll probably make up my mind.
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You said you will be "muscling big fish out of the water". IMO, you are better off with a standard profile baitcaster for that purpose.
I believe your best bet is to buy another 6501C3 and spool it with 20-pound maxima for the Vedder and Chehalis, while you keep the other one spooled with braid for the Fraser and other large systems. In doing so, you also get to have a spare reel in case one bombs on you in the heat of the season. You sound like someone who also might be 'winching' big salmon with the reel (a big no-no, BTW), and that is a lot of punishment that only a true workhorse can withstand (but only to some extent).
All the above said, here's an offer: I have an extra minty Swedish Ambassadeur 6501C3 reel with only a couple tiny rash marks on the rims - otherwise new) loaded with 65#-test fireline that you can have for a 100 bucks. I will fully service it and put new washers and spool brakes in it. It will stop the meanest of any spring and chum in any system. If you want to add the carbontex and ceramic pawl option, it'll cost you an extra 20 bucks. So, for 120 bucks (half your reel budget), you get your reel dilemma solved. ;D
I am not puttin this on the buy and sell because I am not really selling the reel actively. It is a one-time offer just for the helluvit. ;)
Otherwise, just go with the Calcutta 400B.
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Hey thanks for the offer on the 6501 C3 there Milo, very decent of you. Haha I actually have the identical reel (Swedish)! It's a real beauty, but I find the drag a bit weak for big chum and springs, especially in faster water. I use is on my lighter 10"6 Convergence rod for coho, pinks, sockeye, steelhead, etc. I'll hook the odd spring or chum unintentionally, and it's usually a fair bit of work to get them in. Perhaps I should replace the drag? I've seen on ebay one can buy a carbon fiber drag I think it was...hmmm...I'll ask the guy who services my reels about this.
For bigger fish and faster water, I'll break out the Cardiff (one below the Calcutta B) on my 11"6 Technium. The Cardiff has been a great reel, especially for the money ($130 I think). But I just want a new reel, so I think I'll spool the Cardiff up with braid and use it for the odd day on the Fraser.
As far as I know it's only bad for a reel to try and reel it while a fish is taking out line, is this what you mean by the nono? I probably have done this in the past, but I know better now. Some places I fish the water is fast and the fish need to be muscled in fast or they'll get into the fast water and be gonzo (Tamahai Bridge area on the Vedder, etc). Normally I'll just have my drag set about as tight as I think my leader can take, and try to power the fish in with the rod as soon as it's hooked. Usually only need to reel when the fish is out of the fast water and close to shore. Works most of the time, however the odd one will get into the fast water then it's time to snap the leader off.
Anyway, I'm definitley leaning more towards the Calcutta B than the Curado 300E. Thanks for the advice everyone!
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Perhaps I should replace the drag?
Absolutely. There is no reason why a well-maintained C3 with good drag wouldn't stop a spring or chum dead in their track provided the fish is hooked in the mouth and you have the right line, leader and settings. If a fish is foul-hooked, that's a different story, but such fish you break off anyway, don't you? ;)
As far as I know it's only bad for a reel to try and reel it while a fish is taking out line, is this what you mean by the nono?
No, what I mean is you shouldn't reel in lineat all when you fight a fish. You muscle a fish with the rod, not with the reel. Muscling the fish from the reel (winching) is a sure way to destroy the reel in short order. When you crank the reel, your rod should at the same time be going towards the fish - you should not put much tension on the line while reeling - you let the rod absorb the power of the fish and the river.
Just ask a center-pin user what would happen if they tried to winch a fish with their reels. :o
The same principle should apply to baitcasters, regardless of how strong their drag is.
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Milo, thanks for that. I didn't realize that reeling under tension (not dropping the tip while reeling in) was so bad for the reel. I think 99% of the time I power a fish in with the rod and pick up line while lowering the rod tip. However Im sure the" odd time Ive done the "no no." Now that Im more aware Ill avoid doing that again ever!
Sorry in a previoud post I didnt notice that you said "another" C3. As in you knew I already had one. It is a lovely reel and Im sure a modified one would suit my purposes quite well. However, I really want a new reel different from whay I already have. This is why I like the Currado so much...but it looks like the Calcutts B is the wiser choice for what it'll br used for.
Im going to bring my 11"6 rod into the shop and see hoe well the reels balance on it and make my choice from there
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Personally, I prefer a smaller reel for the Vedder and Chehalis. One of my fishing buddies tried using a Calcutta 400 on the Vedder at the locations that we fish and had a tough time casting light gear. I fish 12-15 pound mainline and 8 to 10 pound flourocarbon leader almost all the time and catch way more fish than with heavier gear. Lighter lines mean lighter rod, lighter rod means lighter, smaller reel. Unless you are specifically targeting springs in Tamahi, a smaller setup will work fine. I rarely lose fish to breakoffs and believe me, you are way less fatigued at the end of the day. My ideal set up would be a rod rated at 8-17lbs, and a Calcutta 200B spooled with 12 or 15 lb mainline.
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My luna 300 is out of commission right now, so Im using my lighter setup at the moment. Its a Curado 200E7, loaded with 10 lb maxima, and paired with a lamiglas. After a day of fishing, I was really liking it. Super light, fish hard a whole day and not wear down your wrist a bit. Just the smallest piece of weight and that thing can bomb across the river. Really impressed with it, may not go back to the luna. But I haven't hooked a Hog on it yet, so might think twice about that. If your looking for a small profile reel, Id go for this one.
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You could try this setup for those big whites in fast water.
http://www.shakespeare-fishing.com/kids.html
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Hahaha you totally got me! A**!
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My experience with Calcutta 400 is not good at all. I think the reel is over-rated. I owned two of them. The first one had slippage problem when reeling in, like you turn the reel after casting and it won't engage the spool at all. I had it sent in for fix and they charged me over $80. Used it a few more months. Same problem. So I thought the reel is old. I got a birthday gift with a new one. This one lasted a year and now the same problem with slippage. I literally had to unscrew the reel to take the spool out, mess around with that lever which controls the spool-engage function to reset something. Then it works for a while and go back again with slippage. Can you imagine after a long cast/drift you can't reel in the line and have to remove the spool out to fix things while other fishermen have to wait for your line to be out of the water? Quite embarrassing literally. I am hesitant to send it in to fix again, as I don't want to pay $80 for a problem which will occur again. I thought I am the unlucky guy. But recently I talked to another friend who owns a 400 and he said the same problem too with his 400. I am now shopping for the Abu Revo or Daiwa Luna on Ebay. Do you have this problem with your Calcutta 400?
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SS, eventually you will find out that one rod/reel fits all is not going to make you happy as different target species/river will require a different set up to get most enjoyment out of your fishing. I have three bait caster setup, a 8-12lb medium rod with Curado 201E7 used for coho fishing, a 8-17lb medium heavy rod also mounted with a Curado 201E7 used for steelheading and a 10-20 lb heavy rod mounted with a Luna 253L for springs. Each rod has a role to play. But most of the time I use the lighter rods as I fish mostly for coho and steelhead.
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My experience with Calcutta 400 is not good at all. I think the reel is over-rated. I owned two of them. The first one had slippage problem when reeling in, like you turn the reel after casting and it won't engage the spool at all. I had it sent in for fix and they charged me over $80. Used it a few more months. Same problem. So I thought the reel is old. I got a birthday gift with a new one. This one lasted a year and now the same problem with slippage. I literally had to unscrew the reel to take the spool out, mess around with that lever which controls the spool-engage function to reset something. Then it works for a while and go back again with slippage. Can you imagine after a long cast/drift you can't reel in the line and have to remove the spool out to fix things while other fishermen have to wait for your line to be out of the water? Quite embarrassing literally. I am hesitant to send it in to fix again, as I don't want to pay $80 for a problem which will occur again. I thought I am the unlucky guy. But recently I talked to another friend who owns a 400 and he said the same problem too with his 400. I am now shopping for the Abu Revo or Daiwa Luna on Ebay. Do you have this problem with your Calcutta 400?
Yes I have the exact same problem. I brought it in to Riverside Tackle to have it fixed. Unfortunately the same problem happened. (I think the guy didn't know what he was doing). I finally brought it in to Berry's to have it shipped to Shimano in Ontario to have it fixed. It's OK now
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Thanks FA for the post. Now I know I am not the only one with problem with the 400. Why do you have to send it to Ontario for fixing. Did they close the local Shimano repair shop? They use to have a shop in Port Coquitlam. Then it moved to Delta (I think). Is it still there? Does it cost you quite a bit to have it shipped so far for fixing?
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SS, eventually you will find out that one rod/reel fits all is not going to make you happy as different target species/river will require a different set up to get most enjoyment out of your fishing. I have three bait caster setup, a 8-12lb medium rod with Curado 201E7 used for coho fishing, a 8-17lb medium heavy rod also mounted with a Curado 201E7 used for steelheading and a 10-20 lb heavy rod mounted with a Luna 253L for springs. Each rod has a role to play. But most of the time I use the lighter rods as I fish mostly for coho and steelhead.
I have 5-6 different rods but only 1 reel I use on regular basis that I put on each rod depending on what I'm targeting.
But in general if you get a 10-20lb rod that has a sensitive rod tip and strong butt section you will cover coho, steelhead and springs.
Although I find for springs I like rods with stiffer rod tips. Sets the hook better on those bigger fish.
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Thanks FA for the post. Now I know I am not the only one with problem with the 400. Why do you have to send it to Ontario for fixing. Did they close the local Shimano repair shop? They use to have a shop in Port Coquitlam. Then it moved to Delta (I think). Is it still there? Does it cost you quite a bit to have it shipped so far for fixing?
Shimano moved their repair centre to Ontario. Doesn't make much sense to send your reel on a cross country trip
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I have a 400b on a 10'6" technium in good condition text me 7786895700 if you are looking for one