Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on November 17, 2020, 08:21:51 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JzIQgnyevY
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Excellent and informative video. Thank you for covering this topic.
I have always thought the same, and cannot understand why they are so underrated when they are relatively easy to catch and put up a very strong fight. An excellent beginners fish.
I wonder if the prejudice against this fish is entirely due to the perception of the value of the meat? Because of the commercial harvesting to obtain the eggs, the flesh is, as you mentioned, sold off as pet food. I have often heard the expression, "I would not even feed my pet dog chum salmon". This may have resulted in the perception that this is all the meat is good for. Also many angles catch other salmon such as sockeye, coho and early springs which have a very pleasing colour, while chum flesh is very pale in comparison. As a consequence, anglers are spoiled for choice and will tend to reject and may look down on Chum because of the other species.
When I started fishing in the lower mainland about 7 years ago, the perception that Chum meat is not as good as other salmon was pervasive and I never thought to try one. Then one year I caught a fresh chum and coho on the same day and decided to have a back to back comparison with both fish served at a diner with guests. I was surprised at how good the relatively mild flavour of the chum was and even more surprised when 5 out of the 8 guest mentioned how much they enjoyed the chum in preference over the coho. The chum was prepare with a mayo, dill and lemon dressing.
Is the perception of lesser meat quality also why this fish appears to be abused most often and badly? So often you see chum dragged up onto a rocky shoreline, unhooked, photographed and finally kicked back into the water. It makes my blood boil. I recognize it could be out of fear, due to the size of the fish and those very prominent gnashers. However, even without a net they are relatively easy to tail in shin deep water and slip out a barbless hook, so there is no reason ever to need to beech a fish, unless you have decided to keep it.
Respect da Chum!
Thanks again Rod.
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I see Chilliwack Dart & Tackle just got shipment of Bentrods Dog Pounder chum jigs in today
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Chum is good eating. Don't know why it is considered sub par.
Most folks say ' good for the smoker' as if thats the only use for it?
Admittedly they do colour up fast but as long as they are not old boots, like any salmon I guess, I don't see the problem of retaining for the table.
We had Chum nuggets last night...delicious!! Chum fillets deboned and cut into nugget size pieces, battered with a seasoned batter and deep fried.
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Absolutely respect the Chum, but I don't know anyone that would take a Chum over a Coho.
Respectfully, I could batter and deep fry my shoe and it would taste great. ;D
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I love a clean Chum. I would prefer a clean Chum over a river caught white spring or a Pink any day of the week. The last Chum I retained was from the Harrison. Dime bright. I took it home and made 16 salmon burgers out of it. All vac sealed and ready to go. They make the BEST salmon burgers. They're very mild and will take on any flavor added to them.
The males are better eating too. Plus you get more flesh.
My recipe is simple for a whole Chum I use
1 bunch of dill chopped up
1 diced red onion
1 bag of spinach ( cooked, strained and chopped )
2 eggs
1/2 cup of Almond flour. ( can use regular flour)
Salt abd pepper to taste
I then add the diced up Chum salmon and add to my mixer. Mix it all up so the salmon is slightly Chunky. Press in to burgers and cook on the BBQ. I like to use a lemon mayo too on the bun
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I love fishing for chum. I made this chum salmon jerky with my dehydrator. This was a Stave River male that was a bit coloured up, but with a nice, white belly. The final product was delicious and I'll be making more soon.
Recipe:
-Couple pounds of salmon, deboned and cut into strips 1/2 inch thick and 2-3 inches long
-1/2 cup soy sauce
-1 tbsp lime or lemon juice
-2 tbsp brown sugar
-2 tsp black pepper
-2 tsp liquid smoke
-1/2 tsp garlic powder
-1/2 tsp sea salt
-1 tbsp honey
-1 tbsp sriracha
Marinade strips of salmon overnight, then drain and pat the fish with paper towel. 7-9 hours in the dehydrator at around 150F.
https://imgur.com/lQYtk3P (https://imgur.com/lQYtk3P)
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If you have a full freezer of sockeye, chinook and coho why would you care about chum?
If chum are the only option suddenly they become the preferred fish.
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Chum is good eating. Don't know why it is considered sub par.
Most folks say good for the smoker' as if thats the only use for it?
Admittedly they do colour up fast but as long as they are not old boots, like any salmon I guess, I don't see the problem of retaining for the table.
We had Chum nuggets last night...delicious!! Chum fillets deboned and cut into nugget size pieces, battered with a seasoned batter and deep fried.
We've been eating Chum this way our whole lives.
I'm picky with all Salmon. Cleaned, gutted and on ice right after I catch them. Makes a big difference with the quality of the meat.
I hate that saying only good for the smoker. Why would anybody want to smoke a subpar quality fish or anything else. I enjoy smoked Salmon because we only smoke good salmon.
Trying to hide lousy fish with smoking isn't going to enhance your eating pleasure. I'm sure there are many here that would disagree.
I love a clean Chum. I would prefer a clean Chum over a river caught white spring or a Pink any day of the week. The last Chum I retained was from the Harrison. Dime bright. I took it home and made 16 salmon burgers out of it. All vac sealed and ready to go. They make the BEST salmon burgers. They're very mild and will take on any flavor added to them.
The males are better eating too. Plus you get more flesh.
My recipe is simple for a whole Chum I use
1 bunch of dill chopped up
1 diced red onion
1 bag of spinach ( cooked, strained and chopped )
2 eggs
1/2 cup of Almond flour. ( can use regular flour)
Salt abd pepper to taste
I then add the diced up Chum salmon and add to my mixer. Mix it all up so the salmon is slightly Chunky. Press in to burgers and cook on the BBQ. I like to use a lemon mayo too on the bun
Thx for the recipe will try it out for sure.
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For burgers, I have tried coho, spring, and chum. The consensus around here is that the chums make the best burgers.
I keep it very simple.
Fillet and remove skin and pin bones.
Either mince with a chefs knife or through the grinder
Salt, pepper, and fresh sage (chopped leaves and flowers) from the garden (or dry rubbed is fine too)
Press patties, coat lightly with flour, and shallow fry in sunflower oil
Serve on a toasted bun with ketchup and mayo, fresh onion, and maybe a slice of tomato
I usually skip the fries and have two burgers instead.
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I would love to see more chum enhancement on the Chilliwack-Vedder, and on most other coastal streams. Saturate the upper river's off channel areas with fry and do eyed egg plants, with the goal being self sustaining future runs to the upper portions of the Chilliwack river.
Send out 5 million fed fry from the Chilliwack River hatchery every year. The carcasses, eggs and fry produced will provide nutrients and food to resident fish and birds, angling opportunities, and a food source for gulls, eagles and bears.
Really, these fish are the building blocks of coastal watersheds - so many other species depend on them surely we can better than we are in managing these fish.
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I would love to see more chum enhancement on the Chilliwack-Vedder, and on most other coastal streams. Saturate the upper river's off channel areas with fry and do eyed egg plants, with the goal being self sustaining future runs to the upper portions of the Chilliwack river.
How do we make this happen Dave? I know we talked about this briefly last year when we went for that walk, but what is limiting us from doing that/pushing for it? Financial constraint? Something the current biologists do not wish for? Logistic issues?
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How do we make this happen Dave? I know we talked about this briefly last year when we went for that walk, but what is limiting us from doing that/pushing for it? Financial constraint? Something the current biologists do not wish for? Logistic issues?
Wish I knew Rod. As you know I have been pushing for this for years, with no results.
One thing I learned as a technician was it was always best to plant the idea, cultivate it, and be happy when someone else (your boss) takes the credit. Senior management needs to be onboard.
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Chum is good eating. Don't know why it is considered sub par.
Most folks say ' good for the smoker' as if thats the only use for it?
Admittedly they do colour up fast but as long as they are not old boots, like any salmon I guess, I don't see the problem of retaining for the table.
We had Chum nuggets last night...delicious!! Chum fillets deboned and cut into nugget size pieces, battered with a seasoned batter and deep fried.
100% agree. My daughter is picky eater, but she likes chum fish and chips better than coho or chinook. Chum meat is less firm and very mild fish flavor. that might be the reason young kids accept it
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Took a bright 10 to 12 pound fresh run chum buck today, thought it was a steelhead for a moment, Took it on a jig that the Master tied for me. It is like the one in the video I filmed last week with him.
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When I started fishing the local rivers 40 yrs ago and for many yrs one was not allowed to keep a chum. There was plenty of coho to harvest so “Dogs” were considered a nuisance fish when hooked. When hooked many anglers pointed the rod straight at them and clamped down on thier reels so they would bust off quickly. Then re tie and continue fishing for a coho instead of spending the time to play the chum out and have to release it. Not very sporting I know but they were not considered a sports fish. Now a days with the decline of the fisheries over the yrs, bar rigging on the Fraser closed being one example. Chums are now considered sport as you can legally retain them. I still to this day in my old school thinking am not a fan and do not target them. That being said i am very glad to see this yr from my fishing on the Harrison river/ Chehalis river/Norrish creek and Nicomen slough that the chum runs were much better this yr. They are a very important part of the ecosystem and I hope they will continue to thrive.
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Gave this video a like! Bright silver with bars just visible are among the most attractive game fish IMO. Very strong and fun to catch. I have eaten chum both from the ocean and rivers. One I caught in Haida Gwaii was a bar of silver with a green back. I've chum to vary in flavor, some are a bit gamey, but usually are the mildest tasting of the 5 pacific salmon with no off flavours. Often we put them in an egg wash, dip them in seasoned bread crumbs and fry in a mic of butter and oil. A little wasabi paste on the side goes well.
BC anglers inherited a long prejudice against "dark" fish from the English anglers who came here both to live and as visitors. Even slightly dark coho and chinook were eschewed & not considered suitable table fair. Until the early 90s only those 2 species could be retained or even legally targeted in non-tidal water. I've never killed a dark chum - only ones that have a good silvery sheen to the flanks and a white belly though others have and say they are more than palatable
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I would love to see more chum enhancement on the Chilliwack-Vedder, and on most other coastal streams. Saturate the upper river's off channel areas with fry and do eyed egg plants, with the goal being self sustaining future runs to the upper portions of the Chilliwack river.
Send out 5 million fed fry from the Chilliwack River hatchery every year. The carcasses, eggs and fry produced will provide nutrients and food to resident fish and birds, angling opportunities, and a food source for gulls, eagles and bears.
Really, these fish are the building blocks of coastal watersheds - so many other species depend on them surely we can better than we are in managing these fish.
If these were LATE chum that could be planted, then I agree with you. What we don't want to happen is to have even more chum tempting a harvest in the Fraser during the interior coho and steelhead return peak, like what happened with the chum enhancement on the Chehalis/Harrison in the 1980s.
Al
Also, didn't they already try this to large extent in the 1990s on the Chilliwack? I seem to remember very large returns of hatchery enhanced chum runs at that time, then they stopped for some reason.
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I still think retention needs to drop to 1 per day. Or maybe 1 female and 1 male. Man you go to a place like the Stave and see maybe 6 guide boats with on average 3 clients per boat plus the guide and they all retain 24 females in one morning every day. Thats just the boats that I see. Then you add all the people on shore that retain female Chum. Theres a lot of angry bucks in the river fighting over a handful of females every day.
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If these were LATE chum that could be planted, then I agree with you. What we don't want to happen is to have even more chum tempting a harvest in the Fraser during the interior coho and steelhead return peak, like what happened with the chum enhancement on the Chehalis/Harrison in the 1980s.
Al
Also, didn't they already try this to large extent in the 1990s on the Chilliwack? I seem to remember very large returns of hatchery enhanced chum runs at that time, then they stopped for some reason.
I read a scientific review on Fraser chum stocks put out in the 90s and one thing that surprised me was that prior to the SEP the late component of the run (Nov- Dec) was the largest segment. The SEP deliberately sought to enhance the early component (Late Sep Oct) because the weather was better for ocean harvest. It also seems to me that when chum returns crashed some 10 to 15 years ago it was that late component that declined first and most dramatically.
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As long as the ifs window stays o place chum will do really well. Commercial was forced the fish the last 15% of the return and did not get even close to what they were allocated.
As a results thousands more of our local chum made it back To the spawninggrounds.
To bad this won’t last there is a big push from first nations and commercial to get back to the status quo.
even tho First Nations have a shorter 27 day window apparently few of them fished during it as DFO put on as a condition of licence that they could not fish at night and must attend their nets. Apparently a lot of there fishers have full time jobs and would set nets in the evening, go to bed and go to work then check them after work. As a result not many fished in the earlier part of the run when these conditions were in place.
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If these were LATE chum that could be planted, then I agree with you. What we don't want to happen is to have even more chum tempting a harvest in the Fraser during the interior coho and steelhead return peak, like what happened with the chum enhancement on the Chehalis/Harrison in the 1980s.
Al
Also, didn't they already try this to large extent in the 1990s on the Chilliwack? I seem to remember very large returns of hatchery enhanced chum runs at that time, then they stopped for some reason.
In my dream scenario the up river enhancement would be earlier timed fish, early September into October. The released fed fry from the hatchery would be later timed fish. As the mouth of the Chilliwack (Vedder) is downstream of the usual beach seining sites on the Fraser, increased chum numbers would have no bearing on that wasteful fishery, and, if this was done with the cooperation and partnership of FN, could supplant that fishery entirely by moving the harvest from the Fraser to the lower Vedder.
I don't know why chum production at the CRH was cut back but it seems shortsighted now.
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Wouldnt that significantly impact Rec coho fishing?
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Wouldnt that significantly impact Rec coho fishing?
Not if was done in a cooperative partnership with all clients.
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Wouldnt that significantly impact Rec coho fishing?
accepting gillnets in the vedder is going to be part of the solution to avoiding stocks of concern in the fraser river. like it or hate it seems like it's just a matter of time really unless things dramatically change in the Fraser.
From what I heard is the only reason there were not in this fall is because of disagreement among first nations on how to do it.
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Wouldnt that significantly impact Rec coho fishing?
Sumas First Nation is looking at potential FSC fisheries in the river next fall. Depending on how it is done and where it is done, it will impact the recreational fisheries on chinook, coho and chum salmon. To protect some of the more vulnerable stocks on the Fraser and eliminate mixed stock fisheries, there's going to be some sharing in terminal fisheries.
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unfortunately the result of this video was 20-25 people fishing that run above the train bridge. which in it's self is fine but for some reason the mob mentality brings out some questionable fishing methods and breaking of regulations. I saw people keeping snagged fish and although some were short-floating jigs there were a number of people fishing long leaders for flossing.
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unfortunately the result of this video was 20-25 people fishing that run above the train bridge. which in it's self is fine but for some reason the mob mentality brings out some questionable fishing methods and breaking of regulations. I saw people keeping snagged fish and although some were short-floating jigs there were a number of people fishing long leaders for flossing.
yeah, no fooling. If that sort of thing follows publicity and protecting our right to fish I sometimes wonder how much that right is worth. Maybe we should be making it harder for that sort of 'angler' to actually go fishing than making it easier for them to go and to find fish. I don't know how that would be done but reading and seeing this is really disappointing.
FWIW my comments follow seeing some discussion on another board about people poaching fish and even snagging them to do on waters are catch and release only.
I've also made a modest contribution to the go fund page to finance a campaign to the public right to fish but sometimes 'anglers' are their own worst enemy in more ways than they realize.
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sometimes 'anglers' are their own worst enemy in more ways than they realize.
I was in a fly fishing club in high school. The kids in the club would never be seen hanging out together in the hallways way to diverse of a crowd. I learned to tie the gills monster an attractive pattern that's worked well trolled around when nothing else seemed to work.
anyways your statement from a while back is correct the only thing fishermen have in common is fishing. If we could ever come together and bring this diversity together we could be very strong public fishery advocates. However, from my experience that's pretty impossible for every person that has one idea there will be someone else that says why its a horrible idea. The end result is plenty of inaction. Than there is the fact that for 95% of people angling is nothing more than a hobby that ranks petty far down the list of priorities. You could close the vedder river to fishing and for a week you would have 100's of people pissed on social media but weeks later there would probably be only like 5 old dudes that cared that it got shut down and everyone else would move on to the next hobby in their life.
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Wildman,
what was the name of the fly fishing club?
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That run and the ones nearby have been popular throughout this season. I doubt the video changed much of that.
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the whole river has been busier this year than I have ever seen it!
I started fishing the Chilliwack / Vedder river system in 1967 and have actively fished every year since.
I have to say that in all my time out there I have never seen this many people fishing.
I'm assuming that because a lot of people were not working due to covid that has added to the crowds but social media has definitely impacted to pressure on the system.
Unfortunately with the crowds has come a huge increase of illegal activities. I have never seen so much intentional snagging, flossing, dipping, killing wild fish and over limits etc.
Sadly our government has cut funding for fisheries enforcement so badly that it's almost non-existent.
the poachers know this and have blatantly done whatever they want to in order to fill their freezers with fish.
the whole general mentality out there seems to be to kill as many fish as possible by whatever means.
I can honestly say that of all my years fishing the Chilliwack / Vedder system this year I went out the least.
I couldn't handle the crowds and was also worried I would lose my temper and end up in a confrontation.
In a dream world if we could have put more boots on the ground for enforcement, the amount of tickets that would have been issued would have more than paid for their wages.
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the whole river has been busier this year than I have ever seen it!
I started fishing the Chilliwack / Vedder river system in 1967 and have actively fished every year since.
I have to say that in all my time out there I have never seen this many people fishing.
I'm assuming that because a lot of people were not working due to covid that has added to the crowds but social media has definitely impacted to pressure on the system.
Unfortunately with the crowds has come a huge increase of illegal activities. I have never seen so much intentional snagging, flossing, dipping, killing wild fish and over limits etc.
Sadly our government has cut funding for fisheries enforcement so badly that it's almost non-existent.
the poachers know this and have blatantly done whatever they want to in order to fill their freezers with fish.
the whole general mentality out there seems to be to kill as many fish as possible by whatever means.
I can honestly say that of all my years fishing the Chilliwack / Vedder system this year I went out the least.
I couldn't handle the crowds and was also worried I would lose my temper and end up in a confrontation.
In a dream world if we could have put more boots on the ground for enforcement, the amount of tickets that would have been issued would have more than paid for their wages.
Unfortunately it was a good return as well this year, so people will be encouraged to continue. Being stuck south of the border this year, I spent my fall fishing the Cascade, Skagit and Nooksack rivers. It was a good season for coho for me, but everyone said the same thing on every system I fished - they had never seen so many people fishing this river, ever. Even places as remote as Montana are being overfished during COVID. See this article:"Visitation increases induced by Covid-19 are pushing Montana’s state parks—already struggling with insufficient staff, limited infrastructure, and growing shoulder season attendance—to their breaking point." http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/pdf/2020/Overwhelmed.pdf (http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/pdf/2020/Overwhelmed.pdf)
The market for used boats, RVs and campers, and full sized trucks to pull them has gone through the roof. People are craving a way to get away and do something, and fishing was an achievable way to do that for many people. If only we had a year of miserable returns, small fish, and poor conditions to discourage people. Unfortunately it was the opposite. The masses have now tasted blood, and they want more.
Hopefully this increase in interest will help drive an increase in attention to issues like public access and funding for hatcheries - we need an increased supply to meet the demand. BTW has anyone seen numbers on fishing license sales this year? Maybe that data won't be available until the end of the license year, but I'd be curious to know how much of an increase in licenses we are going to see.
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According to a a presentation I just watched by the pacific salmon foundations salmon stamp sales are way down and mostly because of the loss revenue from out of province and country sales.
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the whole river has been busier this year than I have ever seen it!
I started fishing the Chilliwack / Vedder river system in 1967 and have actively fished every year since.
I have to say that in all my time out there I have never seen this many people fishing.
I'm assuming that because a lot of people were not working due to covid that has added to the crowds but social media has definitely impacted to pressure on the system.
Unfortunately with the crowds has come a huge increase of illegal activities. I have never seen so much intentional snagging, flossing, dipping, killing wild fish and over limits etc.
Sadly our government has cut funding for fisheries enforcement so badly that it's almost non-existent.
the poachers know this and have blatantly done whatever they want to in order to fill their freezers with fish.
the whole general mentality out there seems to be to kill as many fish as possible by whatever means.
I can honestly say that of all my years fishing the Chilliwack / Vedder system this year I went out the least.
I couldn't handle the crowds and was also worried I would lose my temper and end up in a confrontation.
In a dream world if we could have put more boots on the ground for enforcement, the amount of tickets that would have been issued would have more than paid for their wages.
Well...there is always "the other side of the coin".
Yes, it was busy...but I still went out a lot. It wasn't too hard to find fishable areas that were not crowded, unlike some easy access spots. However, I saw lots of CO's and enforcement of violations. It was, in my view, a year when I have seen the most Fisheries presence and enforcement.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that more CO's would benefit the resource.
The amount of, shall we say, unethical practices witnessed is understandably maddening. Ive seen a few tempers flare.
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Where are people seeing all these unethical practices? I'm curious because honestly my feeling is that overall ethics have progressively gotten better in the past ten years. More and more people are fishing properly, and doing quite good actually. Yeah it gets crowded, but take the canal for example earlier in the season, there were mornings when I could see 50+ people in a line all float fishing with bait and catching fish legally. Perhaps I am just not visiting the really busy spots where violations are more common.
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I have seen chum return projections, in season estimates, etc but do they ever break it down on a per system basis? and any estimate of what the recreational chum harvest is?
Just my own anecdotal observations. The Vedder chum run appeared strong, and though I wasnt really targetting them, I was getting/seeing good numbers much earlier than historically.
Norrish system also seems to have a decent run from the few times I saw.
I didnt go to Stave very much but that run didnt seem as good this year. The 4-5 times I looked at the spawning channel, there were far fewer chum present than I would have expected for those dates.
Where are people seeing all these unethical practices? ... Perhaps I am just not visiting the really busy spots where violations are more common.
Just my observations but the worst activity seems more widespread on other rivers. Where on the vedder there are hotspots, where its not so obvious unless you are right there...