Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on June 26, 2013, 01:58:53 PM
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2013/06/the-world-organization-for-animal-health-oie-lists-as-its-number-one-objective-to-ensure-transparency-in-the-global-anima.html
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I find it interesting that Morton is so hush hush about where the money she asked for sampling salmon went. All I see out of that is a debunked movie. :)
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2013/06/the-world-organization-for-animal-health-oie-lists-as-its-number-one-objective-to-ensure-transparency-in-the-global-anima.html
There is nothing hush hush about this Chris. The possibility the OIE would strip the AVC lab of it's certification has been discussed on this and other sites. What it means to you and the other anti's is the money you have donated to Ms. Morton for virus analyses has been used to fund shoddy and unreliable science.
Perhaps now you understand why Dr. Simon Jones would not allow Molly Kribenge (husband Fred runs the lab) to publish the false findings of ISA in Cultus sockeye.
Some of us are not surprised at this turn of events, but don't worry as you can still send her money to fund her latest court case ;D
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There is nothing hush hush about this Chris. The possibility the OIE would strip the AVC lab of it's certification has been discussed on this and other sites. What it means to you and the other anti's is the money you have donated to Ms. Morton for virus analyses has been used to fund shoddy and unreliable science.
Perhaps now you understand why Dr. Simon Jones would not allow Molly Kribenge (husband Fred runs the lab) to publish the false findings of ISA in Cultus sockeye.
Some of us are not surprised at this turn of events, but don't worry as you can still send her money to fund her latest court case ;D
Just can't drop the "I hate Morton" slander can you Dave?
Will you ever answer this question? Why such a hate on for Morton? How exactly has she hurt you? Do you have investments in the feedlot business and you are angry that they aren't doing all that well? Or is it that you have been so brain washed by your exposure to the feedlot industry that you can't see the big picture?
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Sure. I don't hate Morton, but dislike her tactics; I don't have investments in aquaculture; and finally she has hurt me by funnelling tons of money, money that could have made a real difference to wild salmon, into this sham she and her cause is now.
Now, your turn to come clean. fisherbob and Chris have donated money to Morton, they also said no receipts were offered. So af, let me ask you one more time, have you donated to what you seem so passionate about? Were you issued a receipt?
Do you own shares in Alaskan fisheries?
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So the reason you display this "dislike" for Morton is due to the influence from the feedlot industry.....
The whole feedlot crew's approach to Morton and the good folks that support Morton is to try and discredit us. On one hand you complain about the "tons of money" that good folks have sent Morton in her efforts to save wild salmon..... and on the other hand you ridicule us for not supporting her. You need to become a little more consistent in your attacks.....
I've always mused about why you feedlot boys spend all your time attacking the good folks that support Morton and her efforts.... If the industry is so squeaky clean and is not causing any harm to the wild salmon and their environment, why not just focus your efforts on selling us on their "virtues"...... My perception is that other than providing a few jobs, there are no "virtues" to the feedlot business as it is currently structured.
Your argument that the feedlots can coexist with wild salmon is ludicrous, and evidence from all over the globe supports that comment. The argument that there is no scientific evidence that feedlots cause harm to wild salmon, is naive. Industry and government suppression of existing science and scientific studies is the reason for the limited evidence. You and the feedlot industry know that if the evidence was released, the public would immediately demand that the feedlots be removed from our oceans.
The personal attacks on Morton and those who support her is childish desperation. I notice you take the same approach on at least one other forum.... It doesn't seem to be working all that well for you there either...
Obviously you put a good effort into our local fisheries and for that I commend you. Unfortunately on the subject of the feedlots impact on wild salmon, you are totally misguided.
On the subject of donations to Morton...... It's none of your business or anyone else's who I choose to support. That's why I haven't volunteered that info. If someone chooses to volunteer that information, that's fine by me as well.
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Can you tell me what Morton has got right with what I have donated AF? If she was my investment manager, I would have bailed off her boat load of guano long before I stopped donating to her cause. :)
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On the subject of donations to Morton...... It's none of your business or anyone else's who I choose to support. That's why I haven't volunteered that info. If someone chooses to volunteer that information, that's fine by me as well.
True to form af and exactlly the response I expected.
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As far as I am concerned the fish farm industry is the Monsanto of the seas. They ruined the wild salmon in Norway,sea trout in the British Isles,devastated Chile so why not British Columbia. I can hardly wait till they start raising GMO salmon.
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As far as I am concerned the fish farm industry is the Monsanto of the seas.
Accurate analogy islanddude. It's a slippy slope and the Norwegians are certainly taking advantage.
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Accurate analogy islanddude. It's a slippy slope and the Norwegians are certainly taking advantage.
All talk and no answer to questions dude? You have been Mortonized. LOL. Good on ya bud. Bin there done that hehe. :) did you buy into Morton's mothers course?
http://theacetraining.com/ACE
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http://www.vancouverobserver.com/opinion/shooting-messenger-lab-stripped-credentials-after-finding-infectious-virus-bc-salmon (http://www.vancouverobserver.com/opinion/shooting-messenger-lab-stripped-credentials-after-finding-infectious-virus-bc-salmon)
“Dr. Kibenge had the temerity to announce positive test results and the result is his lab is being analyzed by you … I suggest to you that the federal government is going to try and take away his OIE certification as a punishment for this…I predict within the next 12 months Canada will go after his credibility; isn't that right?”
-Lawyer Greg McDade, questioning CFIA and DFO during the Cohen Commission hearings
This lawyer certainly called it......
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Well, not quite because it was the OIE that stripped the AVC of its ISAv reference status - not the CFIA.
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Well, not quite because it was the OIE that stripped the AVC of its ISAv reference status - not the CFIA.
More semantics.... The OIE is made up of delegates from various countries. The CFIA is the OIE delegate for Canada. The $2 million donation from Canada to the OIE probably didn't hurt either.
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More semantics.... The OIE is made up of delegates from various countries. The CFIA is the OIE delegate for Canada. The $2 million donation from Canada to the OIE probably didn't hurt either.
Well, this is what we do know right now:
In May 2013 The World Assembly of national Delegates of the OIE (178 countries) approved by unanimity the delisting of the OIE Reference Laboratory for Infectious Salmon Anaemia located at Atlantic Veterinary College (AVC) in Canada on the basis of the results of the OIE audit conducted with independent experts from 31 July to 2 August 2012.”
http://www.seafoodintelligence.com/EditModule.aspx?tabid=286&mid=767&def=News%20Article%20View&ItemId=34071
Not sure where it says that the CFIA conducted the audits, so perhaps you can clear this one up?
Ah yes...the kick-back card is being played. Nothing like pulling some unrelated article and trying to connect it here. At one time the OIE was Ms Morton's most trusted authority but when it goes against her it is now in the black books. Nothing worse than a woman scorned..lol.
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http://heatherclemenceau.wordpress.com/2012/09/27/what-weve-got-here-is-failure-to-communicate/
Easy for Harper neo-cons to find someone to represent their view on international organizations.
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Apparently Stevey is quite naive as to how the world of politics works.....
Dr Kibenge's lab (the lab that discovered ISAv in Chile before anyone else did) has been finding ISA in BC salmon for a while, yet CFIA is claiming it doesn't exist. The embarrassment interfered with CFIA's PR campaign to convince the world that BC doesn't have ISA. So CFIA hired an "independant" source to analyse his lab and based on those findings they recommended to the OIE that the lab be shut down. No certification means no more reports.... problem solved.
Oh, and throw in $2 million cash as a donation to the OIE and they did whatever CFIA asked them to do.
You forget that the CFIA takes orders from the same folks that write their favorite senators a $90,000 "personal" cheque to try and make the senate scandal go away....
He needs to start reading more than just the "feedlot" news.
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A bit of an education as to how politics in Canada works ...
"Scientists who uncovered the first signs that infectious salmon anemia is present on the West Coast have found themselves shunned and intimidated by federal government officials, the Cohen Commission has heard......"
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/federal-agency-accused-of-intimidation-over-salmon-disease/article554785/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/federal-agency-accused-of-intimidation-over-salmon-disease/article554785/)
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Well, not quite because it was the OIE that stripped the AVC of its ISAv reference status - not the CFIA.
A little more background for you on how the politics work....
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/about-the-cfia/newsroom/news-releases/2013-04-19/eng/1366203828380/1366203839260 (http://www.inspection.gc.ca/about-the-cfia/newsroom/news-releases/2013-04-19/eng/1366203828380/1366203839260)
"April 19, 2013, Ottawa: Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz today announced that Dr. Martine Dubuc of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) has been appointed as Canada’s Delegate to the World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE).
Dr. Dubuc replaces Dr. Brian Evans, who has served as Canada’s OIE Delegate for the past 13 years. Dr. Evans recently retired from the CFIA.
“The OIE Delegate plays a critical role in managing animal diseases at the global level,” said Minister Ritz. “On behalf of the Government of Canada, I would like to congratulate Dr. Martine Dubuc on her appointment. I would also like to thank Dr. Evans for representing Canada so well on the world animal health stage for the past 13 years.”
As Canada’s OIE Delegate, Dr. Dubuc will play a crucial role in the OIE’s standard setting process for the development and adoption of animal health standards and guidelines. Dr. Dubuc will work in partnership with Canada’s Chief Veterinary Officer, Dr. Ian Alexander, to ensure that the standards are appropriately and consistently implemented in Canada, and she will be responsible for notifying the OIE of reportable animal disease occurrences in Canada.
In addition to her role as Canada’s OIE Delegate, Dr. Dubuc is the Vice President of the CFIA’s Science Branch and the Chief Food Safety Officer for Canada."
One little phone call from the PMO's office and Dr. Dubuc said "yup, I can shut Dr Kibenge up" and she was probably asking "Is there anyone else you need me to shut down?"
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I just picked my jaw up off the floor AF- I sorta thought you were a Conservative supporter. Knock me over with a feather.
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I just picked my jaw up off the floor AF- I sorta thought you were a Conservative supporter. Knock me over with a feather.
A person can support a party yet not agree with everything their party does....
I'm quite sure you didn't agree with the shady business behind Glen Clark's free deck.
But let's not derail the thread here.... I think we've got the feedlot boys on the run with their tails between there legs, heading back to their feedlots. ;D
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But let's not derail the thread here.... I think we've got the feedlot boys on the run with their tails between there legs, heading back to their feedlots. ;D
LOL!!!
who knows who or what af supports... including him ;) Sorry I will miss the next few days of comments from af, our master of deflection.
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Apparently Stevey is quite naive as to how the world of politics works.....
Dr Kibenge's lab (the lab that discovered ISAv in Chile before anyone else did) has been finding ISA in BC salmon for a while, yet CFIA is claiming it doesn't exist. The embarrassment interfered with CFIA's PR campaign to convince the world that BC doesn't have ISA. So CFIA hired an "independant" source to analyse his lab and based on those findings they recommended to the OIE that the lab be shut down. No certification means no more reports.... problem solved.
Oh, and throw in $2 million cash as a donation to the OIE and they did whatever CFIA asked them to do.
You forget that the CFIA takes orders from the same folks that write their favorite senators a $90,000 "personal" cheque to try and make the senate scandal go away....
He needs to start reading more than just the "feedlot" news.
Wow...I love how your imagination just runs wild, AF. Looks like you have a job making movies with Twyla.
Apparently you still don't the difference between a virus (ISAv) and a disease (ISA)....big surprise. For your information, ISA has not been found in BC waters - not even by Dr. Kibenge's lab. If so, perhaps you can find this little tid-bit of information from AVC results or another "superlab". Did I forget to say that ISA is a federally reportable disease and that it is already being reported according to the law on the east coast of Canada? Why didn't that $2 million kick-back prevent ISA from being reported to the OIE? Perhaps you can provide more specific information on the hiring of independent experts by the CFIA...and how they conspired to remove the AVC as an official OIE reference lab for ISAv? Perhaps you can enlighten us how this ruling by the OIE "shut down" the AVC lab from doing any testing? So, if the OIE is so corrupt why would Ms Morton ever put her faith in their ISAv reference status anyway? Why would she make a big fuss and want the AVC to be reinstated as a ISAv reference lab for the OIE after her uncovering of this $2 million dollar kick-back. I know...I realize this means you have to actually have to find factual information - something you are not very good at.
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A little more background for you on how the politics work....
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/about-the-cfia/newsroom/news-releases/2013-04-19/eng/1366203828380/1366203839260 (http://www.inspection.gc.ca/about-the-cfia/newsroom/news-releases/2013-04-19/eng/1366203828380/1366203839260)
"April 19, 2013, Ottawa: Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz today announced that Dr. Martine Dubuc of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) has been appointed as Canada’s Delegate to the World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE).
Dr. Dubuc replaces Dr. Brian Evans, who has served as Canada’s OIE Delegate for the past 13 years. Dr. Evans recently retired from the CFIA.
“The OIE Delegate plays a critical role in managing animal diseases at the global level,” said Minister Ritz. “On behalf of the Government of Canada, I would like to congratulate Dr. Martine Dubuc on her appointment. I would also like to thank Dr. Evans for representing Canada so well on the world animal health stage for the past 13 years.”
As Canada’s OIE Delegate, Dr. Dubuc will play a crucial role in the OIE’s standard setting process for the development and adoption of animal health standards and guidelines. Dr. Dubuc will work in partnership with Canada’s Chief Veterinary Officer, Dr. Ian Alexander, to ensure that the standards are appropriately and consistently implemented in Canada, and she will be responsible for notifying the OIE of reportable animal disease occurrences in Canada.
In addition to her role as Canada’s OIE Delegate, Dr. Dubuc is the Vice President of the CFIA’s Science Branch and the Chief Food Safety Officer for Canada."
One little phone call from the PMO's office and Dr. Dubuc said "yup, I can shut Dr Kibenge up" and she was probably asking "Is there anyone else you need me to shut down?"
Wow...they replaced one person with another person. Definitely looks shady...lol. You are too funny. Keep up the good work.
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I'm wondering how much they pay you to do their PR campaign Stevey.... or is just part of your job description?
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I do this one for free because it is too fun to watch you struggle through these threads.
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I'm wondering how much they pay you to do their PR campaign Stevey.... or is just part of your job description?
They pay him in pork.
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I do this one for free because it is too fun to watch you struggle through these threads.
Although I find your arrogance annoying I must admit I'm enjoying myself as well. I am amazed at the efforts your industry puts into justifying it's existence.
I admit I'd like to believe even a small part of your message as it could mean that there is some hope for the survival of the wild salmon. Unfortunately I believe your drive to preserve your source of livelihood causes you to support an industry that has destroyed wild salmon in other parts of the world and is in the process of doing that here as well. The cover-ups, misinformation, PR campaigns and lies, are all part of the industries effort to buy time. When the wild salmon are gone, government and industry can say oops, and happily carry on polluting our waters. When the wild salmon are gone, their existence will be unopposed.
The message from the feedlot crew is that BC is different..... ::) That's just wishful thinking, or worse yet, it's part of the PR effort, and that is what drives us to oppose the feedlots.
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They pay him in pork.
That's because he won't eat the dirty fish. ;D
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That's because he won't eat the dirty fish. ;D
You obviously don't know Stevey. He'll eat anything. He prefers diploid Paul Lake rainbows in full spawning colours. :P
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You obviously don't know Stevey. He'll eat anything. He prefers diploid Paul Lake rainbows in full spawning colours. :P
Pork is better.
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Although I find your arrogance annoying I must admit I'm enjoying myself as well. I am amazed at the efforts your industry puts into justifying it's existence.
I admit I'd like to believe even a small part of your message as it could mean that there is some hope for the survival of the wild salmon. Unfortunately I believe your drive to preserve your source of livelihood causes you to support an industry that has destroyed wild salmon in other parts of the world and is in the process of doing that here as well. The cover-ups, misinformation, PR campaigns and lies, are all part of the industries effort to buy time. When the wild salmon are gone, government and industry can say oops, and happily carry on polluting our waters. When the wild salmon are gone, their existence will be unopposed.
The message from the feedlot crew is that BC is different..... ::) That's just wishful thinking, or worse yet, it's part of the PR effort, and that is what drives us to oppose the feedlots.
What did you expect when you make wild, unfounded accusations about someone's occupation? It amazes me that me and a few others that have been posting on here for awhile now that you still think we make our livelihood from fish farming. As for posting fish farm PR you fail to notice the fact that the vast majority of references I post are not from the aquaculture industry. Many of the references are from the Cohen Final Report. I took the time for you to even direct you to the volume, chapter and page. In addition, some of these references I have used in this forum were straight from Morton herself. The problem is that you take them at face value without actually trying to understand the content. For instance, Twyla says something and you take it as gosphel and start copying and pasting a bunch of paragraphs from her article - not realizing that obvious omissions have been made. I realize you and other fish farm critics are having a difficult time with the Cohen Final Report, but in fairness, so is our glorious King back in Ottawa.
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What did you expect when you make wild, unfounded accusations about someone's occupation? It amazes me that me and a few others that have been posting on here for awhile now that you still think we make our livelihood from fish farming. As for posting fish farm PR you fail to notice the fact that the vast majority of references I post are not from the aquaculture industry. Many of the references are from the Cohen Final Report. I took the time for you to even direct you to the volume, chapter and page. In addition, some of these references I have used in this forum were straight from Morton herself. The problem is that you take them at face value without actually trying to understand the content. For instance, Twyla says something and you take it as gosphel and start copying and pasting a bunch of paragraphs from her article - not realizing that obvious omissions have been made. I realize you and other fish farm critics are having a difficult time with the Cohen Final Report, but in fairness, so is our glorious King back in Ottawa.
As you are up on the Cohen can you tell us if Ottawa is acting on any of the recommendations from Cohen and do they really plan on taking it seriously or was it just another of many past studies and inquiries that end up going no where?
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As you are up on the Cohen can you tell us if Ottawa is acting on any of the recommendations from Cohen and do they really plan on taking it seriously or was it just another of many past studies and inquiries that end up going no where?
It will be acted on (well, some of the recommendations). DFO has put together a response outlining what recommendations can be achieved, when, at what cost. Some are already underway, some aren't some never will be. As to what level Ottawa actually supports it ($$$), we shall see. More likely we will be asked to implement recommendations within current funding (or even with more cuts).
I can say firsthand that it is shaping some of the decisions currently being made within DFO, even if only unofficially (i.e. staff taking the recs and implementing them into ongoing business where possible). Ottawa decides what road we drive down, but folks out here keep their hands on the wheel and can weave through the potholes as they see fit.
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What did you expect when you make wild, unfounded accusations about someone's occupation? It amazes me that me and a few others that have been posting on here for awhile now that you still think we make our livelihood from fish farming. As for posting fish farm PR you fail to notice the fact that the vast majority of references I post are not from the aquaculture industry. Many of the references are from the Cohen Final Report. I took the time for you to even direct you to the volume, chapter and page. In addition, some of these references I have used in this forum were straight from Morton herself. The problem is that you take them at face value without actually trying to understand the content. For instance, Twyla says something and you take it as gosphel and start copying and pasting a bunch of paragraphs from her article - not realizing that obvious omissions have been made. I realize you and other fish farm critics are having a difficult time with the Cohen Final Report, but in fairness, so is our glorious King back in Ottawa.
It is unrealistic for me to submit all of my posts to you for review and approval prior to posting them.... For that reason I believe the disclaimer in my signature adequately covers me. ::) ???
On the other hand, implying that what you post is the whole and the only truth is presumptuous. Facts that are omitted also need to be considered. The efforts you put into your posts and the single topic you post on, indicates more than a passing interest on your part. As such your agenda needs to be considered when reading anything you post.
It is always the responsibility of the readers to determine what to believe.
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It is unrealistic for me to submit all of my posts to you for review and approval prior to posting them.... For that reason I believe the disclaimer in my signature adequately covers me. ::) ???
On the other hand, implying that what you post is the whole and the only truth is presumptuous. Facts that are omitted also need to be considered. The efforts you put into your posts and the single topic you post on, indicates more than a passing interest on your part. As such your agenda needs to be considered when reading anything you post.
It is always the responsibility of the readers to determine what to believe.
I never suggested that you submit all of your posts to me for review. How it works here is that people post on topics - either starting their own or replying to an existing one. Sometimes people agree - other times they do not. People from all walks of life post on here - with a wide range of occupations and experiences. It is called a "Discussion Forum".
I never suggested that what I post is the whole and the only truth. However, with the issues we are talking about here there are myths (or things we don't really know) and there are facts. I like to deal with facts because they are easier to defend. On the other hand, you ignore facts and have a much difficult time defending your position. It's your choice though.
I have no doubt you want to believe that I have some sort of agenda or that I am working for some multinational fish farm company. It makes it easier for you to deflect and not face the facts in front of you.
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http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/isa/statement-2013-07-05/eng/1373038790217/1373041710849
Due to the differences observed in these test results, the CFIA conducted evaluations of both laboratories to assess their capability to reliably detect the ISA virus in accordance with accepted scientific standards. The evaluation conducted at the AVC identified concerns, which may have led to the questionable ISA test results. This information was shared with the OIE.
The OIE designates reference laboratory status based on a laboratory's ability to maintain the highest technical and operational standards. The OIE undertook an independent audit of the AVC after another OIE member country also reported issues related to ISA test results from this laboratory. The OIE audit, performed by an international panel of scientific experts, found a series of weaknesses affecting the quality of diagnoses performed at the AVC laboratory. The decision to delist this laboratory as an OIE reference laboratory was approved unanimously by the General Assembly of the OIE in May 2013.
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http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/isa/statement-2013-07-05/eng/1373038790217/1373041710849
Due to the differences observed in these test results, the CFIA conducted evaluations of both laboratories to assess their capability to reliably detect the ISA virus in accordance with accepted scientific standards. The evaluation conducted at the AVC identified concerns, which may have led to the questionable ISA test results. This information was shared with the OIE.
The OIE designates reference laboratory status based on a laboratory's ability to maintain the highest technical and operational standards. The OIE undertook an independent audit of the AVC after another OIE member country also reported issues related to ISA test results from this laboratory. The OIE audit, performed by an international panel of scientific experts, found a series of weaknesses affecting the quality of diagnoses performed at the AVC laboratory. The decision to delist this laboratory as an OIE reference laboratory was approved unanimously by the General Assembly of the OIE in May 2013.
absolon thinks Kibenge was shut down because he tested Morton's samples. I tend to agree with him....
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Nobody shut Kibenge down. His lab is still operating. Kibenge had his OIE certification removed because two audits showed his work didn't meet the standards of accuracy and reliability they require and his results therefore couldn't be considered reliable.
That is unless you think that too is a conspiracy and he's actually been secretly rendered to Guantanamo because of his opposition to a government plot to kill all the wild salmon.
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Actually, having thought about it a bit, I will make one suggestion about Kibenge.
Now that he has become just more collateral damage in her path, I'll bet he is seriously regretting the day he ever agreed to do any work for Morton.
Sounds to me like you were saying that he was shut down because of his association with Morton. Did you change your mind once you read the CFIA's PR piece?
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Morton's kabuki performance brought his lab's shortcomings to the fore; those shortcomings cost his certification.