Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spawn Sack on July 16, 2013, 11:49:07 PM
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In a recent thread someone commented that red spring fishing in the Vedder right now is like steelheading in December - only with a tan! Well after 3 days of working the river with roe, prawns, wool and a few other random things under my float I must say I agree. Not a single bite! Well I caught a few steelhead smolts, but they don't count.
I've heard springs like spoons. My float rods are not made for casting spoons, but I have a couple 9ft spinning rods that will work nicely. Just for a change of pace I'm going to leave the float rods at home tomorrow and try chucking some metal!!!
First I'm wondering if anyone has a critique of my setup. As far as I know it's good. So like I said 9foot spinning rod. I forget the exact specs but it has decent backbone and will handle a spring. On the reel I have Suffix 832 braid in 20lb. The braid is tied to a #14 barrel swivel (I don't really like tying braid and mono together with a double uni or whatever knot...have had a few knots bust with a good fish on) and from there about 3-4 feet of 15lb maxima mono. At the end of the mono is another slightly larger barrel swivel connected to one end of a duo-lock swivel. The other end of the duo-lock goes to the spoon. I like this setup as spoons can be changed in seconds without any farting around with knots. I took the split ring and barrel swivel out of all of my spoons. I don't think there is any issue with the two barrel swivels...I guess I don't need the one down by the spoon as there is already one on the braid+mono connection. Hmmm....maybe I'll remove it and just tie the leader straight to the duo-lock.
Now, about spoon weight. My heaviest spoons are 1/2oz. Do you guys think I'll be able to get them down deep enough? The runs I like are fastish (HopeDale, Lickman, etc). I was having trouble getting 3 inches of 1/4inch lencil lead down deep enough today. I finally pinched a magnum split shot on in addition to the pencil lead and it was about right to get a good drift and have my lead tick bottom the odd time.
The best spoon in my box right now for the water conditions IMO is a 1/2 croc in silver with a red stripe. I know the elongated spoons cut through the water better than the wider spoons (eg. Koho, Pixee, etc). I'll give it a shot and if it's not getting down I guess I'll be making a run to Fred's for something heavier.
I've heard of guys using split shot to get their spoons down. However I read an article once in Salmon and Steelhead magazine I think it was that advised to NOT do this as it buggers with the lure's action, and interferes with the feel transferred to the rod. Also I see it as one more thing to get snagged up and snap off a $6 spoon!
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If I were using braid as mainline, I would run a mono leader of around 9 feet by making a modified Albright knot (7 up and 7 down) and connect the duo-lock swivel to it. The knot easily shoots through rod guides. When using smaller spoons or fishing deep, fluorocarbon would be more effective due to its higher density (sink better) and abrasion resistance (can use thinner leader, so sink better). My two cents.
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when I lived in kitimat we had to use spoons or other lures for springs because of the bait ban.
i used to love (ironically) gibbs kit-A-mat spoon in orange, and copper. 45 and 55 sizes depending on how fast the water was moving. (1280 C copper)
http://www.gibbsdelta.com/kit-mat
also, maybe its just me, but I did not have much success with the croc for springs, used to catch dolly's and cutties on the retrieve close to shore.
I never changed the slip ring or swivel. I left them as is and used a leader connected to another swivel and my main line.... but I would change all the hooks out with similar sized siwash hooks. and changed them frequently....
and like you said, some old guys that taught me told me never to add weight or bait as it has a negative effect on the action of the spoon. just put on a bigger spoon.
fishing with bait is hard. some bites don't sink your float. using a spoon you ALWAYS know when they bite
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one of my fave spring luers is a blue fox number 4,5,6 in orange green silver gold red fire tiger and red blade blue bodies but for spoons i like Blue Fox Nickel Plate Pixie Spoon they are awsome get them from cabeles the your good in the uv colors those will catch u a fish i think they have been god producers for me for springs every wear
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Haha face lures are god producers. Got to love autocorrect.
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ahahah didn't even notice
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.... but I would change all the hooks out with similar sized siwash hooks. and changed them frequently....
and like you said, some old guys that taught me told me never to add weight or bait as it has a negative effect on the action of the spoon. just put on a bigger spoon.
X2
In summer spoon fishing for salmon, you rarely get the kind of kick in the pants strikes as water is normally low, clear and pressured. So takes tend to be soft inhales so a sticky sharp hooks are essential to consistently hook up under these kind of bites. Original hooks are garbage and should be changed with religious devotion. Also, never add weight to a spoon as it kills both action and feedback.
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Try switching the original spoon hooks to sickle hooks and you cannot go wrong. Swinging spoons for chinook and even the sockeye in the summer has been fun, especially some days on the Thompson. Heard guys say that these fish will snap 15 pound test on the take, telling you that that's nothing short of exaggeration.
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When needing distance or depth, I would attach a worm weight or bell weight above the swivel and a 4 to 7 foot leader to the lure or spinner. Shorter leader for coloured water and longer for clear.
I found that in some situations my lure could make the distance, but would be swept away to quickly to allow it to sink to the depth the fish were holding in. Adding a weight and casting a bit upstream made all the difference getting down to the fish. Many times I have watched fish follow a Blue Fox spinner out of the deep water and slam it.
Big mistake I made in the beginning was not to put a float stop and a plastic bead on the line above the weight. First cast after releasing a good sized fish, the spinner and weight stopped dead a few feet out. The weight came smoking back up the line and pulverized to rod tip. Fighting the heavy fish had bound up the braided line on the spinning reel spool and I was casting hard for distance. Not a good thing considering it took nearly an hour of tough walking to get to the spot and now no rod.
Now I would stick to using mono line for my main line, but that`s just my preference. There are a lot of new braided lines that I have not tried. Maybe they do not bind up like they did with the earlier braided lines.
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when I used to cast spoons for springs it was always the big 1" ironheads, 45/55 Kitamats, or the 1" Koho, .....etc. Big lures with enough weight to get you down to the fish and stay there. It can be very exciting fishing when you find a good pod of fish :D
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If I were using braid as mainline, I would run a mono leader of around 9 feet by making a modified Albright knot (7 up and 7 down) and connect the duo-lock swivel to it. The knot easily shoots through rod guides. When using smaller spoons or fishing deep, fluorocarbon would be more effective due to its higher density (sink better) and abrasion resistance (can use thinner leader, so sink better). My two cents.
Interesting. Why do you need such a long leader? (9 feet). I thought my 4ish foot mono leader was sufficent, perhaps not. I've never tried the modified albright. I like how with my current setup I can reel until the small barrel swivel is just short of the rod tip, then cast. No knots ticking through the guides. My braid is Suffix 832 in moss green I think. It IS braid but I think for braid it is fairly stealthy.
I would entertain the idea of increasing my leader length and ditching the barrel swivel in place for the M/A knot.
Anyone else habe some thoughts here???
And I like the idea of using F/C in place of mono for better sinking and abrasion resistance. I just have so much confidence in the Maxima U/G. I can't recall ever having it bust when using an appropriate LB test and hooking my targeted species in the mouth. However with flouro I have had it happen many times where I have a nice fish on and SNAP...it blows at the knot. Maybe it has something to do with high LB test on the river, as the 4 and 6LB flouro I use for still waters has never let me down and I'm using the same knots.
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Try switching the original spoon hooks to sickle hooks and you cannot go wrong. Swinging spoons for chinook and even the sockeye in the summer has been fun, especially some days on the Thompson. Heard guys say that these fish will snap 15 pound test on the take, telling you that that's nothing short of exaggeration.
I've never tried sickle hooks. Can you get an open eye siwash sickle? I normally put the silver Gammagatsu open eye siwash on all my Blue Foxes, colorados, etc. On spoons I like the Mustad Ultra Point. Occasionally I'll stick the ultra point on a colorado or blue fox, but I think the straight Gammie tracks more straight in the water and doesn't interfer with the lure's action. If on a big spoon no hook is going to stop that baby from wobbling how it wants to, so I'll stick to the ultra point as IMO the offset hook makes it harder for a fish to spit the hook.
I'd be willing to try the sickle hooks for sure.
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Was out swinging spoons after work at HopeDale rd. Most would not get down as the water is still pretty fast there. Larger ironheads and koho worked well. I bought a hammered 5/8 croc with the red stripe. The elongated design really cuts through the water. I could get the odd twang off bottom whereas the others would not.
I found if I casted out at about 90 degrees and once the spoon hit the water feather another 10-15 feet of line off the spool while keeping tension on the line seemed to get the spoon down to what felt like a strike-zone depth. If I engaged the spool once the spoon hit it usually rode up to the surface.
Keeping my rod tip lower throughout the swing and following the lure with my rod tip also seemed to help. In other words I was applying JUST enough line tension to allow the spoon to work and feel a good "thump...thump..thump" action in the rod tip, but not so much tension as to cause the spoon to plane to the surface. However near the end of the swing I'd raise the tip up and pull the rod a bit upstream to avoid having the spoon get hung up.
Didn't catch a damn thing unfortunately. Went from 5:30pm-7sih. Didn't have high expectations but it was nice to get out ther and do something different than float fish stinky roe.
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I've never tried sickle hooks. Can you get an open eye siwash sickle?
YES
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Interesting. Why do you need such a long leader? (9 feet).
Fishing with spoons require a lot more effort to get it down to where the fish are holding (and make a proper presentation) due to current speed, seams, line drag and water depth. Many times I have the line passing by the fish first before the lure passes by, typically lure is travelling perpendicular to the current to reach the deep hole where the fish are holding, so a long leader is required in clear waters typically found in small to medium summer rivers. Gin clear summer river is a good place to learn how your favourite spoons behave underwater.
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I hear what you're saying. With gin clear water I would ditch the braid altogether and use the other spool I have for the reel which I believe is spooled up with 12lb berlkley XL, and from there run a flouro leader. However with the current clearish and fast water in the Vedder I like the braid as I can feel the action of the spoon way better than mono, and IMO if I get a strike I can get a better hookset on the 1/0 or 2/0 hook. With a small spoon say 1/4oz and a #2 hook or whatever is on it I'm sure the 12lb mono would work well.
I bought a book last year that had a LOT of good info on spoon fishing. I forget a lot of the content so I should re-read it, lol! Had lots of good info on the different types of spoons and the types of water each performs best in, different colors/finishes foor different water, and much more. Would 100% reccomend this book if you're interested in spoon fishing.
Here's a link to it http://www.amazon.ca/Spoon-Fishing-Steelhead-Bill-Herzog/dp/1878175300/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374171947&sr=8-2&keywords=spoon+fishing
I find spoon fishing fun and interesting but have only caught a few fish using this method. Gonna try and bring the spinning rod out more this year (despite funny looks I'll get from the baitcaster and centerpin crew). :o
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Do not overlook float fishing with unweighted spinners for chinook. Although straight colorados with metallic finishes work well I have had good success with painted cascade blades in 4.5 size.
If you want to give these a try give me a pm and ill let you know more about set up, colors and technique.
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Can anyone reccomend a good website (that ships to Canada) to order hooks, etc? My local shop dosen't have any open eye sickle siwash. I would specifically like to try the Gammies.
I order a fair bit of stuff online to Sumas, but I really can't be bothered driving across the line just to pick up some hooks (!) I buy most of my tackle locally so just looking to get a few things online. Perhaps a few fly tying materials as well that they don't seem to carry.
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Heard guys say that these fish will snap 15 pound test on the take, telling you that that's nothing short of exaggeration.
It's not so much the line is snapped; it's that it's cut by their teeth. And you can float spoons.
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Can anyone reccomend a good website (that ships to Canada) to order hooks, etc? My local shop dosen't have any open eye sickle siwash. I would specifically like to try the Gammies.
http://bentrods.ca/bent-rods-fishing-tackle
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Can anyone reccomend a good website (that ships to Canada) to order hooks, etc? My local shop dosen't have any open eye sickle siwash. I would specifically like to try the Gammies.
Why do you want open eye siwash. Very simple to switch out with closed eye siwash offset hooks, available at Sea-Run.