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Author Topic: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP  (Read 11152 times)

thor

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'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« on: December 07, 2006, 12:14:23 PM »

How many more "mistakes" does it take to figure things out????

Read the artice posted today on CBC.CA

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2006/12/07/tsawwassen.html

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eddy

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2006, 01:40:50 PM »

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=4f89e638-c384-44e4-8581-9eb284810d33&k=87927

Hmmm, well let's see now.
360 members of the Tsawwassen First Nation got 1% of the Fraser Valley sockeye.
There are 180,000 aboriginals in BC.
Assuming that they all want equal access to fish in BC.
How many times does 360 go into 180,000?
It's a good thing at least I finally figured out how to use a calculator. ;D ;D ;D
500 times!
So, that's 500% of all fish in BC should go to aboriginals! >:( >:( >:(
Yeah, lucky them.
And, poor us.
Guess we all better take up another sport.
Lawn bowling anyone? :) ;D ::)
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TrophyHunter

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2006, 01:54:38 PM »

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=4f89e638-c384-44e4-8581-9eb284810d33&k=87927

Hmmm, well let's see now.
360 members of the Tsawwassen First Nation got 1% of the Fraser Valley sockeye.
There are 180,000 aboriginals in BC.
Assuming that they all want equal access to fish in BC.
How many times does 360 go into 180,000?
It's a good thing at least I finally figured out how to use a calculator. ;D ;D ;D
500 times!
So, that's 500% of all fish in BC should go to aboriginals! >:( >:( >:(
Yeah, lucky them.
And, poor us.
Guess we all better take up another sport.
Lawn bowling anyone? :) ;D ::)


That's ok.. according to the elitists there is no way for us to catch them ethically anyways :)
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allwaysfishin

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2006, 02:35:56 PM »

some days i'm glad i'm aboriginal..... although.... i sure ain't proud of the "it's all ours" mentality of many aboriginal groups in this country. I stongly disagree with the allocations laid out in this treaty and am disgusted that each band member in Tsawwassen band gets 230,000.00 each !!! Un fricken real... our tax dollars at work. For the record, I am Metis, not first nations, as a Metis I get jack diddly fugg all, from our governments coffers.
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bcguy

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2006, 03:04:37 PM »

"360 members of the Tsawwassen First Nation got 1% of the Fraser Valley sockeye."

Where did you get this stat from? I had a look at the Sun article as well as the treaty, and couldn't see where it says that....
I saw something about  "guarantees natives a share of the lucrative Fraser River salmon fishery" but didn't see an actual figure attached to any statement except in the treaty document. Is the volume of water in the treaty document somehow tied to a quantity of salmon? am I missing something here?
The only good thing I read in all this was after the treatys are in place, these particular bands will be expected to pay taxes....
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eddy

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2006, 03:28:42 PM »

Dear BCGuy,
Please read page 2 of the same article: "It gives them about a one-per-cent share of the fishery, though it is in a side agreement outside the treaty, thus meaning it is not formally "constitutionalized.""

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Old Black Dog

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 05:30:45 PM »

Dear BCGuy,
Please read page 2 of the same article: "It gives them about a one-per-cent share of the fishery, though it is in a side agreement outside the treaty, thus meaning it is not formally "constitutionalized.""



I think that there are + 90 bands on the Fraser?
You guys can forget about all the flossing debates as there will be no fish to fish for.
Don't forget that there are bands on the West Coast of the island that are in negotaitions and guess what they are working on.
Yes, more fish and all types of fish.
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FISHIN MAGICIAN

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 09:15:11 PM »

Dear BCGuy,
Please read page 2 of the same article: "It gives them about a one-per-cent share of the fishery, though it is in a side agreement outside the treaty, thus meaning it is not formally "constitutionalized.""



I think that there are + 90 bands on the Fraser?
You guys can forget about all the flossing debates as there will be no fish to fish for.
Don't forget that there are bands on the West Coast of the island that are in negotaitions and guess what they are working on.
Yes, more fish and all types of fish.


I remember Bill Otway standing up at the SFI meeting stating (roughly his words) "Think about this here...cuz once you give it away..you're never getting it back!"

Sick and SAD day for fisheries.

That's ok...120 million won't last them too long. Let me se...120 milllion...360 members...don't worry...won't be long until all 360 are flat broke.

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Stratocaster

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2006, 09:47:26 PM »

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=4f89e638-c384-44e4-8581-9eb284810d33&k=87927

Hmmm, well let's see now.
360 members of the Tsawwassen First Nation got 1% of the Fraser Valley sockeye.
There are 180,000 aboriginals in BC.
Assuming that they all want equal access to fish in BC.
How many times does 360 go into 180,000?
It's a good thing at least I finally figured out how to use a calculator. ;D ;D ;D
500 times!
So, that's 500% of all fish in BC should go to aboriginals! >:( >:( >:(
Yeah, lucky them.
And, poor us.
Guess we all better take up another sport.
Lawn bowling anyone? :) ;D ::)



Will there be enough lawns after the land claims?


Don't worry about not being able to fish.  I'm sure you can for the right price.

Not sure if its true but I heard that you can fish the Little Campbell River on Native land if you pay them a fee.

I also heard of a similar arrangement up north by the Nisgaa area.

 
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bcguy

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2006, 10:41:26 AM »

Yup, see that now, but where is the agreement actually laid out, just trying to get to the fine print...,
another important aspect of this agreement is the removal of land from the ALR for industrial development and port expansion, this whole thing absolutely reeks!!!!
How does that song go?

"You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash
The more I think about it, old billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight
You don't want to work, you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing"

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"It seems clear beyond the possibility of argument that any given generation of men can have only a lease, not ownership, of the earth; and one essential term of the lease is that the earth be handed on to the next generation with unimpaired potentialities. This is the conservationist's concern"-RHB

Old Black Dog

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2006, 04:30:58 PM »

Harper, Tsawwassen First Nation agree to $119M treaty 

Published: Friday, December 08, 2006
VANCOUVER — Prime Minister Stephen Harper committed his government Friday to a modern-day treaty that will give a West Coast native band a guaranteed quota of Fraser River salmon, a move that has angered one of Harper’s MPs and disenchanted many  of his long-time loyalists.

The treaty, also controversial because it awards the Tsawwassen First Nation more than 200 hectares of prime coastal farmland that the natives can use for industrial use, is valued by the native band’s lawyers at about $119 million.

After 13 years of negotiations, the deal is expected to be put to a vote in the B.C. legislature and the House of Commons in the next few months, where its is likely to easily pass. The 358 members of the Tsawwassen band, which is located on a slice of waterfront near Vancouver, will likely vote on the deal this summer.

“This is a great day for us,” said Tsawwassen Chief Kim Baird on Friday. “We value  this deal at $119 million. We’ve calculated the value of the agricultural lands.”

But to get the proposed treaty, the second in less than six weeks under B.C.’s treaty process, Harper has had to pay a political price.

Conservative MP John Cummins, a longtime loyalist, has publicly criticized the treaty as creating a “racially based” fishery because a side-agreement awards the natives a share of the salmon fishery — from 0.7  to about three per cent, depending on the species. The treaty values the salmon fishery at under $2.7 million annually.

That has also drawn the ire of some West Coast fishermen, who believe Harper has abandoned his promise to oppose such a fishery with preferential quotas. Phil Eidsvik, the head of the Fisheries Survival Coalition, has accused the Conservative government of a “massive betrayal.”

Indian Affairs Minister Jim Prentice, who took part in the ceremony Friday on the reserve, has said that there is room for a fellow Conservative MP to disagree. But he supported what was in the treaty.

“It charts a future based on respect and co-operation,” Prentice said in a statement.”As the first final agreement in B.C. Lower Mainland, it serves as an excellent showcase for reconciliation among communities and their governments.”

There are far larger stakes than fish at play in this treaty.
Both the federal and provincial governments are hoping to expand a container port that sits just off the waterfront property of the tiny B.C. native band. A treaty will make it possible for a major expansion because the Tsawwassen want to use some of the 207 hectares of farmland they will be granted to build warehouses and storage facilities for the millions of containers that could be arriving from Asia in years ahead.

As well, the treaty will mean the Tsawwassen will be giving up their status as a reserve. That means that after 12 years after the treaty becomes law, the natives will lose their tax exempt status under the Indian Act and must pay the same taxes as other Canadians.


© Vancouver Sun 2006
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chris gadsden

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2006, 09:20:25 PM »

Bill or Gerry for Prime Minister. ;D ;D It seems once a government gets into power they seem to all do the same thing when they set into power be they Consecrative, Liberal or worse still the NDP.

How about the Greens?

troutbreath

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2006, 09:32:30 PM »

Mulroney and gang set up race based fishing in the first place. As for the rest of us, I guess it's fighting over the last few pikeminnows. I voted Green once before becuse I know the others track records on looking after old mother earth. Don't blame the first nations for wanting more than a reserve but then what about the Metis. If your the Chiefs family and you marry a white your still FN, go figure. I think were in for bad fishing times despite the treaties and bottom bouncing flossers. Someone has to take stock of our fish and do the right thing. Cummings and his ilk would only fish them to extingtion anyway.
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

chris gadsden

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2006, 09:38:18 PM »

Mulroney and gang set up race based fishing in the first place. As for the rest of us, I guess it's fighting over the last few pikeminnows. I voted Green once before becuse I know the others track records on looking after old mother earth. Don't blame the first nations for wanting more than a reserve but then what about the Metis. If your the Chiefs family and you marry a white your still FN, go figure. I think were in for bad fishing times despite the treaties and bottom bouncing flossers. Someone has to take stock of our fish and do the right thing. Cummings and his ilk would only fish them to extingtion anyway.
I think things will be changing on the flossing front but this treaty thing is going to be a real challenge to try and change things as it is very complex issue. The latest document on this treaty is 600 pages long, I have not even started to read it. :-\ ::)

troutbreath

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Re: 'Huge mistake' to include fishing rights in treaty: MP
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2006, 09:47:54 PM »

Yes Chris, and the thing is written by people who wouldn't know a salmon if it fell out of their pants. ;)
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?