Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on November 01, 2018, 02:28:18 PM
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It appears we have some good news regarding our proposal for regulating leader length when stocks of concern are present below is an excerpt from an email more details to follow
As discussed, the following is an email thread regarding the ability to vary leader length. Chris Manore was able to get permission to put into the Omnibus Bill package the ability to vary leader length. The start of this thread regarding the (23:00 h to 24:00 h close time) is just operational and nothing to be concerned about.
The main thing is that Chris has identified that he anticipates that this will be available for use in the summer of 2019. This provides the opportunity on the Fraser River, THAT IF NEEDED, to protect Sockeye that a maximum leader length of 1 meter can be put in place for a specified time and specified place. The wording provides 1 meter or 2 meters in order to ensure that it can be used in other then the Fraser, if needed. For example on the Skeena for a particular leader length. If you have any questions or concerns, please give me a call and I will try to deal with them.
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Hopefully they put a fine associated with it other wise DFO will be forced to take a contravention to court.
Good to see they are finally moving on this file
Will be interesting to see how they define what a leader is.
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Who is Chris Manore?
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According to my Google results, he is the Chief, Regulation - Fisheries and Oceans Canada.
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/chris-manore-23731358
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According to my Google results, he is the Chief, Regulation - Fisheries and Oceans Canada.
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/chris-manore-23731358
Thanks
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Hopefully they put a fine associated with it other wise DFO will be forced to take a contravention to court.
Good to see they are finally moving on this file
Will be interesting to see how they define what a leader is.
I'm wondering how this would work for fly-fishing. Especially during an abundant pink run
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I'm wondering how this would work for fly-fishing. Especially during an abundant pink run
Flossing must be done with a fly rod later.
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I don't know who sets the regs in some Provinces back east but almost all Atlantic Salmon Rivers are fly only in Canada. Some rivers are restricted to floating line only and unweighted flies to prevent unintentional snagging.
If the intent of the reg is to stop bb/flossing on the Fraser when sockeye are not open I don't see an issue since you pretty much never see a fly angler on the river at that time. For pinks a meter or 2 of leader is more than sufficient if you are relying on them actually biting.
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This is good to hear, however, 1 meter long leader is more than enough to floss on the Fraser? Hell.. I've flossed fish with less than a foot. Forgive my ignorance. I suppose it's better than the regular 20 foot leaders you see? :o ;D
It will cut down on the casual people that donot know how to angle in a proper fashion, they will give up quickly, watch for lots of equipment for sale if it goes through.
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That would apply for fly fishing as well I would think
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This is good to hear, however, 1 meter long leader is more than enough to floss on the Fraser? Hell.. I've flossed fish with less than a foot. Forgive my ignorance. I suppose it's better than the regular 20 foot leaders you see? :o ;D
Yes, it certainly is possible. I remember fishing at Island 22 in one of the first sockeye openings more than 20 years ago, 2-3 feet was the standard leader length, and we all used pencil lead for weight. I think for the first few seasons people were under the mistaken impression that these fish were biting. If it was a pink year, you didn't want a long leader because then you would keep hooking pinks by the hump. There were even bars where people would float fish with wool, float flossing these fish. It was in about the year 2002 that we finally saw leaders lengthening, first to 4 feet, then 6, then 9. It was like the average leader length would increase by a foot or two with each successive opening, and the size of the weights also increased in a similar fashion. There would be a few people bar fishing on the same bar. Everyone gave them lots of room and there were no issues. The bar fishers picked up the occasional sockeye as well.
Leader length restrictions might keep people from trying to floss fish for a while. I have a hunch that someone will perfect their meter-leader method and then things will pick up again. If we think that bar fishing really is a selective method, then you could certainly have a "stationary presentation only" rule that prevented bottom bouncing altogether.
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Yes that is why fished for them too. It has been a long time since then and glad I gave it up once I new the truth. I always say why would anyone need a fish that bad they have to snag it. Of course a leader length will not stop the dippers in places like the Tamihi Rapids. What a terrible scene there and people will be there in droves tomorrow with the muddy river now. :'( :(
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I'm wondering how this would work for fly-fishing. Especially during an abundant pink run
Simple. Floating line with a tip of choice followed with a 2 foot leader. No tippett.
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much will depend how 'leader' is defined. If it's defined as below a weight ... it will have no impact on fly tackle, large spoons, weighted spinners etc.
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I use a 9' leader on a floating line for pinks.
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much will depend how 'leader' is defined. If it's defined as below a weight ... it will have no impact on fly tackle, large spoons, weighted spinners etc.
I don't think it is easy to define. For example, 9ft leader behind a pencil lead, however, by adding a small split shot 3 feet above hook, is the leader 9ft or 3ft?
or what about drop shot rig, the leader actually is not behind / below a weight. it is also good for bottom bouncing.
or slide weight rig, the weight can be 3 ft above the hook, but it can slide way up. what is the distance to define the leader length?
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I don't think it is easy to define. For example, 9ft leader behind a pencil lead, however, by adding a small split shot 3 feet above hook, is the leader 9ft or 3ft?
or what about drop shot rig, the leader actually is not behind / below a weight. it is also good for bottom bouncing.
or slide weight rig, the weight can be 3 ft above the hook, but it can slide way up. what is the distance to define the leader length?
I know 10 years a go when this started to get more traction they were thinking along the lines of
Weight to hook/lure, or swivel to hook/lure
Something like "no leader line length shall exceed a maximum of 1m from the weight(weight exceeing 1/2 ounce or more) to the hook
California has
"Restrict Leader Length to Less Than Six Feet: Reducing leader length to less than 6 feet is intended to reduce potential foul-hooking (snagging) of salmon and steelhead. It will also halt the practice of “beading” or “flossing,” where some anglers use long leaders and a bead at the hook end. The proposal reads: “It shall be unlawful to use any configuration of fishing tackle in anadromous waters unless the distance between the terminal hook or terminal lure and any weight attached to the line or leader, whether fixed or sliding, is less than six feet. For purposes of this section, ‘weight’ includes any product used to submerge the line or leader, including non-buoyant artificial flies or artificial lures, but does not include integrated or sinking fly fishing lines, lead core lines used while trolling from a boat, dropper weights used while trolling from a boat, or clipped weights used with downrigger systems. "
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I don't think it is easy to define. For example, 9ft leader behind a pencil lead, however, by adding a small split shot 3 feet above hook, is the leader 9ft or 3ft?
or what about drop shot rig, the leader actually is not behind / below a weight. it is also good for bottom bouncing.
or slide weight rig, the weight can be 3 ft above the hook, but it can slide way up. what is the distance to define the leader length?
you bring up a relevant point and something that was discussed ages ago when this issue was first brought up. There will always be loopholes around any regulation put in to stop flossing.
I think a stronger rule would be to require you to fish with a fixed weight that does not drift i.e. Bar fishing. You could also allow fly fishing by limiting the use of weight on your line unless it was fixed to the ground.
Something to the effect of:
When Angling on the Fraser Using any weight >1/4 ounce must be fixed and not allowed to drift.
IMHO its not necessarily the length of the leader but the way its being used that's the problem.
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All the rules in the world are not worth crap unless they are enforced. We all see people foul hooking fish and retaining. I would love to see the money spent on more officers enforcing the rules we already have.
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I'm always at a loss when you see big packs of obvious snaggers/general violators. It seems to me like any CO could earn a months salary in fines in a few hours just by hitting one little pocket.
The only time I've seen a CO was at the Cap, on a Wednesday morning at 9am, long after any of the snag packs had come and gone...
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I'm always at a loss when you see big packs of obvious snaggers/general violators. It seems to me like any CO could earn a months salary in fines in a few hours just by hitting one little pocket.
The only time I've seen a CO was at the Cap, on a Wednesday morning at 9am, long after any of the snag packs had come and gone...
I heard that there used to be undercover CO's fishing with the crowd at Tamihi during the peak of the season. Not sure if they are there anymore in light of the budget cuts but they were very strict as to what constituted "hooked in the mouth".
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All the rules in the world are not worth crap unless they are enforced.
I dont agree with this sentiment. There are always those who wont give a damn, but I believe most people follow the existing rules, ie closures, single barbless hooks, retention limits, releasing foul hooked fish etc. And enforcement is already minimal at best.
If the regs changed to implement leader length restrictions or bar fishing only or whatever, I'll wager the majority of people would comply.
Herd mentality also is a big factor. If everyone is flossing and retaining snagged fish, then others will also feel comfortable doing the same. If one guy keeps a foul hooked fish amongst a group of ethically acting anglers, he's far more likely to hear about it and be encouraged to change his behavior. Self policing does occur (sometimes) within the recreational community, but needs clearly defined regs as a basis first. You have no foundation tell someone not to floss, because like it or not, it's a perfectly legal technique in all waters. But you could inform someone that their 20' leader is prohibited, if that was the regulation at the time.
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I'm always at a loss when you see big packs of obvious snaggers/general violators. It seems to me like any CO could earn a months salary in fines in a few hours just by hitting one little pocket.
The only time I've seen a CO was at the Cap, on a Wednesday morning at 9am, long after any of the snag packs had come and gone...
They won't lose a penny salary if they do nothing.
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I dont agree with this sentiment. There are always those who wont give a damn, but I believe most people follow the existing rules, ie closures, single barbless hooks, retention limits, releasing foul hooked fish etc. And enforcement is already minimal at best.
If the regs changed to implement leader length restrictions or bar fishing only or whatever, I'll wager the majority of people would comply.
Herd mentality also is a big factor. If everyone is flossing and retaining snagged fish, then others will also feel comfortable doing the same. If one guy keeps a foul hooked fish amongst a group of ethically acting anglers, he's far more likely to hear about it and be encouraged to change his behavior. Self policing does occur (sometimes) within the recreational community, but needs clearly defined regs as a basis first. You have no foundation tell someone not to floss, because like it or not, it's a perfectly legal technique in all waters. But you could inform someone that their 20' leader is prohibited, if that was the regulation at the time.
Different views that for sure. I tangled more lines during the Sockeye harvest than I ever had in all my years of fishing combined. I would say that the vast majority of hooks had barbs. I think we all want to believe that the rule breakers are in the minority but I think they're the majority during the fall salmon season in our neck of the woods. This is what I am referring to.
This week I fished the Stave twice, the Chehalis and the Nicomen. I saw Chim getting bonked on the Stave, pulled up a line with a barbed hook on the Chehhalis and saw a guy next to me on the Nicomen take a long time to remove a foul hooked jig from a tail on a Chum. He ended up using his pliers to yank that thing from its tail.