Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: fly fisher on April 18, 2011, 11:48:02 AM
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I am wondering what to use for then and in what conditions you use certain things. I am also wondering what type of water they hold in. Thanks for the help
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roe seems to work best for them unless your in faster water then red wool is fine. I have found them in all types of water from shallow right through to deep slow pools but usually i find them in decently deeper slots with failry fast water around their holding spots.
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Ionno where you plan to fish for them but the vedder run is pretty much nada. I find their harder to find than steelhead and getting worse every year.
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Ionno where you plan to fish for them but the vedder run is pretty much nada. I find their harder to find than steelhead and getting worse every year.
Ditto. :(
The Vedder red spring run has been in severe decline for the last several years. Where back in 2002/2003 we had 6-7 fish days on opening day, today it is next to impossible to find one. The run is so compromised I' wouldn't mind seeing a total ban on retention of red springs until at least September 1.
Every fish counts!
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The run is so compromised I' wouldn't mind seeing a total ban on retention of red springs until at least September 1.
Every fish counts!
Why? The Summer Chinook present in the Chilliwack River during the summer are not native and are 100% hatchery reliant.
If anything they should close retention to the Red Fleshed Fall Chinook, which are a native run.
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Ditto. :(
The Vedder red spring run has been in severe decline for the last several years. Where back in 2002/2003 we had 6-7 fish days on opening day, today it is next to impossible to find one. The run is so compromised I' wouldn't mind seeing a total ban on retention of red springs until at least September 1.
Every fish counts!
I would go further with that thought and say stop all production of this poorly adapted/poorly researched stock to the C-V. Their progeny is a group of interior stocks genetically adapted to interior water temperature conditions. Those temperature profiles don't happen on the C-V as the fish spawn when water temps are still high and fry emerge when temperatures are low and food is scarce. Natural production from this stock is minimal, if even measureable.
Put this summer red chinook enhancement money where it will do the most good to the watershed - chum salmon production.
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Why? The Summer Chinook present in the Chilliwack River during the summer are not native and are 100% hatchery reliant.
If anything they should close retention to the Red Fleshed Fall Chinook, which are a native run.
It's actually the early spring chinook that is wild and native to the Vedder, and is already closed to retention. The red fleshed fall chinook are just summer fish running late.
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Reds can be hard to find on the Vedder - but one river I haven't checked for years is the Chehalis. It used to be great - especially when the river flowed down the hatchery side. I haven't been back for reds in the Chehalis for around 9+ years now!
As for the Vedder, I usually don't start finding (and hooking) these fish until at least mid-July, with the last two weeks in July being "prime time" - if you can call it that. Too bad the Summer run chinook isn't as big as the Fall run! Those whities are not even close to the eating quality of the reds IMHO.
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It's actually the early spring chinook that is wild and native to the Vedder, and is already closed to retention. The red fleshed fall chinook are just summer fish running late.
And what does this have to do with closing the Summer Chinook to retention ::)
My point regarding them being a 100% hatchery reliant run was just backed up by Dave. So why would you close them?
I have spoken about these runs with Don Johnson over at the Chehalis hatchery and he made some interesting points. These fish are originally from Spius or Finn Creek (can't remember which one of the two). He agreed that these fish are poorly suited to our local rivers and that there likely are more suitable stocks available. That being said, the permits required to introduce these stocks are now impossible to attain.
And no, the red fleshed Chinook encountered in the fall on the Chilliwack are not late running summer fish.
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roe seems to work best for them unless your in faster water then red wool is fine. I have found them in all types of water from shallow right through to deep slow pools but usually i find them in decently deeper slots with failry fast water around their holding spots.
wool.in.fast.water..........right
those fish are tough to get to bite on roe and shrimp at the best of times.
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troll the mouth. more relaxing.
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what would you prefere to use at the mouth island boy?
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There are still a lot of them around.
Made 3 trips last year and landed 13 of them, just need to find them. All one roe, bite time was generally between 8 and 11 am just before sun hit water.
If you don't believe in bite times well... that's another discussion but like I said out of those 134 probably 10 were between those times.
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And what does this have to do with closing the Summer Chinook to retention ::)
My point regarding them being a 100% hatchery reliant run was just backed up by Dave. So why would you close them?
I have spoken about these runs with Don Johnson over at the Chehalis hatchery and he made some interesting points. These fish are originally from Spius or Finn Creek (can't remember which one of the two). He agreed that these fish are poorly suited to our local rivers and that there likely are more suitable stocks available. That being said, the permits required to introduce these stocks are now impossible to attain.
And no, the red fleshed Chinook encountered in the fall on the Chilliwack are not late running summer fish.
Hey don't get your knickers in a knot or the snotty attitude. There's no need to be so insecure! ::)
I never contradicted what you said about the hatchery fish. I only corrected a little detail about Vedder's native run.
You want a pat in the back for knowing your fish? Sure. There you go. Atta boy! :)
FWIW, you can fish all the chinook you want in the Vedder. I catch mine in the ocean off Ucluelet every year and the occasional Fraser fish... ::) I will incidentally catch a few Vedder ones when chasing coho, but they all go back unless they are bullet chrome, red or marbled.And yes, I can figure that out without gutting the fish.
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Reds are harder to get then steelhead in the Vedder I would say but that being said if you find a pocket they are very willing to bite. As for the red wool it works just fine.
13/07/2010 at 9:09:27 AM on red wool
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/206981_10150563899635705_821855704_17965549_2818612_n.jpg)
14/07/2010 at 5:37:52 AM on red wool
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/216238_10150563901235705_821855704_17965560_1218702_n.jpg)
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wool.in.fast.water..........right
those fish are tough to get to bite on roe and shrimp at the best of times.
Totally agree,i have had a very good day tho,one year in the morning hours,all the fish were cought short floationg jigs tipped with prawns,and one of the fish was abullit chrome sockaye,but at the time when i was fishing the pool was loaded with fish,never happened again,its always been one or none for me
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Ever try fishing for red flesh springs in Stamp river? I used to go over to fished the Stamp river during Labour Day weekend and done quite well. The bottom end of Somass river where Swanson pool is quite good when it is high tide which push lots of fresh chrome springs in.
Silex-user
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SterlingC
The Chilliwak River has three stocks of chinook that return to the Vedder system. 1. Original red chinook ( indigenous ) spawn late September - Mid October Less than 20 fish
2. Transplanted summer reds from Slim Creek - spawn late Aug - Mid September 500 + fish
3. Transplanted Harrison Whites which do have a few red fleshed fish mixed in, these are not
original Vedder River red springs. Spawn Mid October - Late November 25 k + These red fleshed
fish are still considered to be white chinook. They smell like white chinook, look like white chinook
and their flesh colour turns almost white close to spawning. Some sort of genetics going on I guess.
4. Egg targets: Original Chinook - as many as possible. None the last few years.
Transplanted Reds - 500 k if possible.
Harrison Whites - 1.2 Million
5. Last two years returns have been poor - closure of limits hole to protect brood stock
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Why were original red chinook (indigenous) eggs not used for spring salmon production in the early days?
I guess that the Chilliwack hatchery has been in operation for decades, so twenty or thirty years ago there would have been more plentyful supply of indigenous salmon available for artificial fry production. I am just curious, why Harrision whites, which are not much favoured among many fisherman, were so widely introduced into many lower mainland rivers.
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tee spoons
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I am just curious, why Harrision whites, which are not much favoured among many fisherman, were so widely introduced into many lower mainland rivers.
In a nutshell, it is because most LML streams are very poor in nutrients - the Chilliwack/Vedder in particular.
The Fraser fall-run stock group (where the Harrison stock comes from) is unusual because the fry migrates to the estuary immediately upon emergence from the gravel. In the estuary, they rear for three to six weeks before moving offshore, rather than spending 90-150 days in freshwater as is typical of most other stocks with an ocean-type life history.
The sooner they get the hell out of a sterile river, the more they increase their chance of survival. The more chinook come back to spawn and die, the more nutrients they will provide to an otherwise nutrient poor river.
Other stock wouldn't stand a chance to establish a sustainable run.
Simple, eh? ;)
So, look at white springs in a more positive light. They actually help sustain all the other species in the Vedder that we like to catch. 8)
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Ever try fishing for red flesh springs in Stamp river? I used to go over to fished the Stamp river during Labour Day weekend and done quite well. The bottom end of Somass river where Swanson pool is quite good when it is high tide which push lots of fresh chrome springs in.
Silex-user
Too bad Swanson's is out of bounds now.
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In a nutshell, it is because most LML streams are very poor in nutrients - the Chilliwack/Vedder in particular.
The Fraser fall-run stock group (where the Harrison stock comes from) is unusual because the fry migrates to the estuary immediately upon emergence from the gravel. In the estuary, they rear for three to six weeks before moving offshore, rather than spending 90-150 days in freshwater as is typical of most other stocks with an ocean-type life history.
The sooner they get the hell out of a sterile river, the more they increase their chance of survival. The more chinook come back to spawn and die, the more nutrients they will provide to an otherwise nutrient poor river.
Other stock wouldn't stand a chance to establish a sustainable run.
Simple, eh? ;)
So, look at white springs in a more positive light. They actually help sustain all the other species in the Vedder that we like to catch. 8)
Yes, that makes perfect sense milo. Thank you.
Now I know why those smelly buggers were introduced into so many rivers. :)
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Nice fish josh I myself haven't caught any reds in vedder only whites would like to land one this year if possible very good thread thanx for the info and knowledge ;D
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Yeesh Milo, you have to come off so reasonable??? ;D gosh, way to, you know, put it so simply! haha
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Yeesh Milo, you have to come off so reasonable??? ;D gosh, way to, you know, put it so simply! haha
Well, you know, I am just a language teacher, not a PhD in Marine Biology.
It's all on the Internet, you just have to find it, summarize it and present it to your students (in this case, a fellow board member).
Full paper here (for those so inclined):
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/2010FrasRvrChkInformDoc.htm