Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spawn Sack on November 25, 2013, 05:18:52 PM
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I love tying and fishing jigs. My favorite way to float fish actually. I do fairly well using them to target salmon (primarily chum), but have never got so much as a sniff using them for steelhead. Last year I lost all confidence in them for steelies and eventually stopped using them altogether. This s/h season I'm determined to give them another go, fish them hard, and hopefully catch something on them! I also notice that not too many guys are using jigs for s/h, so I figure they may give me an advantage if most of what they've seen is roe, rubber worms, gooey bobs, etc. I'm hoping you jig nuts can teach me a few things I may not know that I can use on the river. Lemme know what you think of the following
Colors:
-Most jigs I'd tie up for steelhead are pink/white, pink/purple, chartreuse/pink. Nothing terribly original.
Materials:
-Most I'd tie up are usually rabbit body and schlappen collar, polar chenile body and schlappen collar, or palmered marabou body and schlappen collar. I'll also add in flash, rubber legs, ostrich hurl, etc as I see fit.
Some materials I'm thinking of incorporating this winter are rea (used in intruders...I figure why not jigs?), dubbing looped fox tail for a butt (again used in intruders as an "umbrella" for the marabou or whatever), mylar tubing tail. Possibly some other materials used in intruders etc...need to go through my meterials and see if any light bulbs go off
Weight/Hook size:
-I nornally use 1/4oz lead heads or the larger pin heads. I typically use #1 hooks but will go 1/0 if the water is murky.
Adding bait:
-Like with chum I'll often add a chunk of raw prawn. Also I've tried small salt water hardened egg sags. Gonna try squid tentacles as reccomended by a few guys on this site! I've tried adding curly tails but don't really like them...
Leader length:
-I've heard a lot of ppl say "you need to put it in front of their face!" so I generally keep my leaders SHORT, somewhere between 1 foot and 18 inches max.
Jig depth:
-I typically take a guess how deep the water is and set my float so I think I'm a foot off bottom. From here I'll usually keep going deeper until I hit the bottom, then I'll bring it up a foot or so.
Knot:
-I used to use an improved clinch, but have switched to a non-slip loop knot as IMO it causes the jig to bob around more = more action.
Fishing tactics:
-Generally I'll start at the head of a run and make my first cast very close to shore. From here I'll cast out a bit farther each time and add a bit of float depth as I get farther from shore. I might do this twice in one spot, then move down river 10-15 steps or so and repeat. Basically I try to "grid" the river so any s/h out there will get a good look at my jig.
-I "dead drift" my jigs and apply just enough spool tension to keep the line off the water.
-Sometimes I'll tap the spool on my levelwind while the jig is drifting to tug on the line a bit and cause the jig to twitch. This worked well at times for chum this year. Twitch...twitch...BAM!
It seems like I know what I'm doing but I've had many days when guys (using roe or whatever) have pulled fish out of the same water I was just casting into with my jig ??? So either the fish got a look at it and didn't like it enough to smash it, or I was not fishing it right and the fish never got a good look at it. Gotta be something I can learn about tying up jigs, adding bait to my jig, or fishing the jig on the river.
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In my opinion, Jigs are best in deep, clear, slow moving water: particularly canyon water.
Therefore, i life to use a long leader, do keep the weight farthest from the jig to allow it to really use its motion. This is how i have caught the majority of my steelhead on jigs.
From what I've seen, jigs are one of the few baits you do not want directly in front of the fish. I was always told 2/3 to 3/4 of the way down the water column. (7 feet down in 10 feet of water).
My favorite jigs are the beau-mac style, with two beads and a maribou tail, it gives the jig great action and looks as though it is swimming.
Finally, I tie a loop knot on to my jig in order to give it more motion and allow it to stay horizontal as it drifts through the run. For this reason, I do not tip my jigs with bait, as it interferes with the natural drift
Cheers
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http://www.ifish.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/72647/size/big/cat//ppuser/6359
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Thanks CoastRider, yup I agree about the water for jigs: I like to fish them in slower + deeper water. I find they don't work so hot when you hold back on them like a colorado blade, etc. I like to dead drift them and give the line an occasional twitch if I know there are fish present and have thus far ignored my offering. Works well for chum/pinks etc.
I don't know of any "canyon water" where I normally fish on the Vedder but I learned a few new runs for salmon that I know are going to be good steelhead jigs runs :D
Also good tips on depth of the jig. I did notice when chum fishing that if the jig was too deep - not hitting bottom but probably near botom - I generally got nothing. Reducing the depth so the fish were looking up at the jig seemed to be the ticket. I'll keep this in mind when s/h fishing.
I have a few beamac jigs and like them. I wonder how they tie off that marabou and make it look so tidy at the back of those beads??? It's like they somehow tuck the material under the beads. Also I find when I drill out my beads they often crack >:( Generally I do not use beads that often in jigs I tie myself, although I have heard s/h like bead jigs.
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Here is one to try, a white or silver jig head, red rabbit, then palmer black marabou around 2-3 times. They seem to work well for me.
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That's the nightmare jig, works well for red spring aswell.
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That's the nightmare jig, works well for red spring aswell.
You are correct. Its a good go to if water conditions are tricky and the fish are finicky. don't want to give away all my secrets, blue works relatively good as well.
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That's the nightmare jig, works well for red spring aswell.
Zap, do you find that red and white chinooks have a difference in color preference when it comes to jigs?
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Here is one to try, a white or silver jig head, red rabbit, then palmer black marabou around 2-3 times. They seem to work well for me.
I've tied up some nightmare jigs with a painted white lead head, red chenile body, and black marabou tail. Honestly I haven't fished them much, and probably only when I was first learning to fish jigs a couple years ago and didn't really know what I was doing.
A couple questions: 1-Do you use cross-cut rabbit or straight/zonker cut rabbit for the body? 2- With the marabout do you tie it in tip first or butt first, and do you strip one side or use bith sides?
I like pink and purple jigs for steelhead but, given that I haven't caught one on a jig, I am willing to try different colors + materials for sure. I'll tie up a couple with this color sceme and try them out this winter.
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Not sure color really matters that much. I have caught Vedder steelies on:
red over black
white over orange
black over purple over fuschia
purple over fuschia
fuschia over chartreuse
black over blue
I prefer using straight cut rabbit for the body - it stands out better, and nice webby schlappen for the head.
Marabou doesn't flare well in faster/choppy water so I don't use if for Steelhead. Yes for Chum and Coho though.
If fished at a dead drift in walking speed water the fish really shouldn't see the head.
Jig head colours are for catching fishermen - I have caught just about as many fish on plain lead heads as I have on metal or painted heads.
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Like all baits, half the time its just the issue of getting the fish to see something, so as long as you are confident with your drift, the colour of the fur usually isnt as big of a factor as how the jig is sitting/pulsing etc
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Zap, do you find that red and white chinooks have a difference in color preference when it comes to jigs?
I got lots of whites on pink/purple chum jigs this season, the red/black cuts through the coloured up freshet water that the reds are found in so it works well.
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Interesting comments Typhoon and CoastRider, so it sounds like it's not like fishing for coho where sometimes they only want a CERTAIN color or appearance. I've heard from many guys are long as you're fishing something that the steelie would like chances are they'll smash it if you're fishing it right and they can see it. Like me if I go to a buffet - if it looks half decent and smells good - I'm tryin it!
I think as long a I'm confident in my jig and am fishing it properly i'm bound to hook into one sooner or later :o
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Not positive on this.. but I think last year was a relatively tough year for steelhead.
That's my excuse anyway.
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An interesting technique Matt Guiguet always used was fishing jigs with a spin casting reel. He felt that it was easier to cast when you are fishing 6-8 feet from float to jig and that it allowed for a more drag free drift. He would use braided line down to the leader because it floats and allows you to keep the line off the water, and he would open the bail and pump the rod to allow line to spool out freely. I saw an episode of sport fishing BC where he took Pendlington on the stamp using this technique.
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Another thing he stressed, was that he liked to reel down into the fish, rather than setting the hook, as the weight on the jig could dislodge the hook on a hookset. Had a few trips on the Stamp with him and it seemed to work like magic.
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Not positive on this.. but I think last year was a relatively tough year for steelhead.
That's my excuse anyway.
Haha! Me too!!...tough season...yuppers...
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An interesting technique Matt Guiguet always used was fishing jigs with a spin casting reel. He felt that it was easier to cast when you are fishing 6-8 feet from float to jig and that it allowed for a more drag free drift. He would use braided line down to the leader because it floats and allows you to keep the line off the water, and he would open the bail and pump the rod to allow line to spool out freely. I saw an episode of sport fishing BC where he took Pendlington on the stamp using this technique.
huh...I'll have to do a utube search for this and see it for myself. Doesn't make sense to me how this would be advantageous at all. For TWITCHING jigs I know a spinning reel works great...but for float fishing?! I've tried float fishing with a spinning reel and IMO it sucks. I get a much nicer drag free drift with my baitcaster, and although I don't center-pin I know several guys who love them for floating jigs.
I remember from Rod from Bent Rods jig seminar rules of thumb: level wind or center pin, shorter leader max 2 feet generally 1-1.5 feet for steelhead, keep the damn jig off the bottom!, try to get a nice drag free drift on your float.
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Another thing he stressed, was that he liked to reel down into the fish, rather than setting the hook, as the weight on the jig could dislodge the hook on a hookset. Had a few trips on the Stamp with him and it seemed to work like magic.
Interesting...I've never had a jig pop out on a hook set (I normally hammer it for all I'm worth) BUT I have started to reel down a bit first before setting the hook as often I'm "high sticking" to keep my mainline off the water, so there isn't much room left for my rod to go back on the hookset. If my float is a ways down stream not as much of a problem as I lower my rod tip at this point, but if my float is across from me (shortly after casting) and my rod tip is up high and the float goes under, I find it better to give a few quick reels and then drive the hook set.
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Alright, so I FINALLY had a chance this evening to tie up some new steelhead jigs. I only tied 5 jigs in about 3 hours, but it was mostly because I was sitting at my desk with my binder of notes/handouts from the tying classes I've attended, coming up with ideas, then going through materials and deciding what to use, etc. Each jig took no more than 10-15 min to tie. Now...I have no idea if any of these jigs are actually going to catch a steelhead, as I have never caught a s/h on a jig. However they 3 of the 5 are based on effective intruder patterns, and the other 2 are just variations I made of the nightmare jig.
If anyone wants to know what I used in any of the jigs, how to tie them, etc, just ask. I'd also welcome any comments/criticism as these are the first jigs I've tied up that are specifically for steelhead. Normally I tie pretty basic jigs for pinks, coho, chum etc like polar chenile body, schlappen colar, etc. These ones are a fair bit more complex to say the least!
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/Jig-a-bugger_zpse5c8c245.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/Jig-a-bugger_zpse5c8c245.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/SaddleHackleNightmare_zpsee8e6b07.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/SaddleHackleNightmare_zpsee8e6b07.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/ChromeTeaser_zps4da12b0b.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/ChromeTeaser_zps4da12b0b.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/PromDress_zps5731ce8b.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/PromDress_zps5731ce8b.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/spawnsack/threeeighths_zps06425bcc.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/spawnsack/media/threeeighths_zps06425bcc.jpg.html)
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level wind or center pin, shorter leader max 2 feet generally 1-1.5 feet for steelhead, keep the damn jig off the bottom!, try to get a nice drag free drift on your float.
Is that from float to jig? Nice jigs by the way Spawnsack!
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Those are some creative patterns! well done, especially like the last one!
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Your jigs look pretty good to me and I'm one of those guys that never fish them ;)
I just wanted to add that on a jig I wouldn't use a fox spun "prop", most of the time your dead drifting jigs which means your materials will open up and move well in the current on their own. The main reason to use fox to prop materials in flies is because they are swung "under tension" and without the fox the materials would collapse into a thin little nothing with almost no movement.
If you want to try the fox then I suggest tying 1 and take it to the river and see how it acts when its dead drifted. I bet it opens up so much so that it becomes more of a fur ball then anything else and doesn't have much flowing movement to it.
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Great looking jigs. Way more creative than the ones I have been imagining, purple/black and red, red/black, white pink and orange.
What one has the fox fur. The forth one with the white body?
Did you buy all your materials separately or did you find a kit with most of the stuff already put together?
Also what is the head on the last jig, it looks different.
Thanks!
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2nd to last would put multiple fish to the bank tying recipe available ?
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Not sure color really matters that much. I have caught Vedder steelies on:
red over black
white over orange
black over purple over fuschia
purple over fuschia
fuschia over chartreuse
black over blue
I prefer using straight cut rabbit for the body - it stands out better, and nice webby schlappen for the head.
Marabou doesn't flare well in faster/choppy water so I don't use if for Steelhead. Yes for Chum and Coho though.
If fished at a dead drift in walking speed water the fish really shouldn't see the head.
Jig head colours are for catching fishermen - I have caught just about as many fish on plain lead heads as I have on metal or painted heads.
TYPHOON, just to confirm, by "A" over "B", do you mean, in the example of "red over black," say red schlappen over black rabbit. I guess my question rephrased is, is the "over" material the collar, and the first material the body? So with the second example say white schlappen collar and orange rabbit (or polar chenile, etc) body?
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Is that from float to jig? Nice jigs by the way Spawnsack!
I'm talking about the leader length, which is the swivel to the jig. The float to the jig could vary a lot depending on the water depth. Leader length is pretty consistent - max 2 feet and commonly 14-16 inches for s/h.
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2nd to last would put multiple fish to the bank tying recipe available ?
For sure! This jig is based on the "prom dress" intrudr fly is learned at Sea Run. The fly/jig are very easy to tie compared to others, and materials are cheap too.
I used a 1/4oz lead head on a 1/0 hook (Bent Rod pack from Fred's). The body is UV ploar chenile in silver. Tie in at the tail and wrap to the head. I scruff out the body with a velcro brush after tying off in case any fibers are trapped. Next tie in some blue flashabou (5-10 strands) and trim a bit past the end of the hook. The collar is black marabou. I tied in butt first and did not strip one side. You could strip one side if you want it to be sparser. 2-3 wraps of marabou and tie off!
If you need more detail I can take step by step pics next time I tie one up and email you them.
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Great looking jigs. Way more creative than the ones I have been imagining, purple/black and red, red/black, white pink and orange.
What one has the fox fur. The forth one with the white body?
Did you buy all your materials separately or did you find a kit with most of the stuff already put together?
Also what is the head on the last jig, it looks different.
Thanks!
For these ones I didn't use fox at all. However for the 3rd one down with the chartreuse in it I did do a seal dubbing butt before rea etc.
HOOK thanks for the tip about not using a fox tail bump for jigs that makes sense how it's not necessary and perhaps even a bad thing for jigs. Makes sense and I never thought of that :)
Yes I bought all my materials etc seperatly IMO the fly tying "kits" are crap and you'd be better off buying a used vise and the materials as you need them.
The last head is a 3/8oz lead head. They are "bullet" heads I think, just a diff shape. I'm not too crazy on them as the head goes far back on the hook shank so there is not much room to add materials.
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TYPHOON, just to confirm, by "A" over "B", do you mean, in the example of "red over black," say red schlappen over black rabbit. I guess my question rephrased is, is the "over" material the collar, and the first material the body? So with the second example say white schlappen collar and orange rabbit (or polar chenile, etc) body?
Yes.
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WOW nice looking jigs are you sure those catch fish or fisherman just joking Iam sure they work . I have been using jigs for years and its my go to always tipped with a prawn and a Jensen egg to hold it on and basic colors Rod uses . I feel its the action of a jig more than color and some of the ugliest jigs caught fish my partners just shake there heads and so do I sometimes my jigs are not worthy of showing cause I cant tie worth a Damm but they work. I fish them till I loose them and tie on some other creation BAM fish on
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Haha thanks tim3500 ;D I'll be the first to admit those jigs are more fisherman catchers than anything. I've never tied up intruder style jigs before, normally just realy basic ones for chum, springs, etc. The main reason I tied these up is to give myself a bit of a confidence boost when fishing them for s/h as I've never caught a s/h on a jig.
Interesting idea using a jensen egg to hold the prawn chunk on! I'll have to give that a shot! Do you use raw or cooked prawn? Cured or just natural? IMO raw uncured prawn is the best, but it's downsides are it dosen't keep long and it falls off the hook easier than cooked and/or cured. I've heard of guys using spider thread to keep their prawn tail/chunk on better, although I have yet to try this.
Other things I'm going to try on my jigs this winter are:
-raw uncured squid tentacle trailing off the back like a rubber grub.
-small spawn sack (3-4 eggs) with water hardened eggs.
-chunk of raw or cured prawn.
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Raw prawn cured in sea salt is best IMO keeps the prawn more firm doesn't fall apart as easy
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I've never tried just raw prawn and salt. I imagine the prawns would keep a lot longer being semi-cured by the salt. Just a few inquiries wonder:
-Do you keep the salt cured prawns in the fridge? How long do you find they last cured this way?
-Why sea salt? How about coarse salt or pickling salt?
-Do you brush the salt off the prawns after, or leave them in the salt? Years back I tossed some prawns in salt and left them in the salt...after 10 days or so the prawns were super tough and IMO didn't have much scent left to them. I wasn't happy with this so I tossed them.
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i keep my prawns in the freezer and use coarse salt.
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I keep mine in the freezer as well, however once I thaw them I do not re-freeze them. Z/B, if you thaw some prawns, salt them, but do not use them up over a day's fishing, what do you do with the leftovers? Re-freeze in salt? Keep in salt in the fridge?
My normal practise is take 6 or so out of the freezer, thaw, and use raw + unsalted. If any leftover I put in the fridge and try to use up before they go bad. If they go bad I toss in the garbage. Looking for a more pragmatic method, less wasting, etc. However I still want prawns with some good stink to them that are not all shriveled up.
For kicks try googling "curing prawns for steelhead fishing." Several good atricles by Patzuke, Pro-Cure, etc. Many seem like a lot of arsing around :o
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just curious, where do u buy the raw prawns for steelhead? does a grocery store work and do i have to buy fresh, or would previously frozen work?
Thx
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Yeah man just the grocery store. I normally look at the fresh and frozen and get whatever seems to be the best deal, what's on sale, etc. I kind of like the frozen in a ziplock bag style as your can take out as needed. Sometimes I buy fresh, cook most up with dinner and keep a few raw for the next day's fishing :D
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Any leftover from the days fishing goes back in the freezer as is, they seem to keep well.
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in regards to all the prawn talk I slightly cook them in partake nectar for color and smell or brine them in the nectar liquid. brining makes them a little more pliable for when my fingers are half frozen.
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Cool thanks guys ;D So many different methods! I think I'll stick with what I like and have confidence in which is just straight up raw prawn. Although I may experiment a bit with salting them to toughen them up and keep them on the hook longer. Also will follow Z/B's advice and put unused ones back in the freezer instead of having them spoil in the fridge.
I can't recall if it was on this thread or another but someone gave me the idea of putting a Jensen egg on the jig hook after the prawn chunk to hold it on better. I plan to experiment with that idea as well as using spider thread.
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In my opinion, Jigs are best in deep, clear, slow moving water: particularly canyon water.
Therefore, i life to use a long leader, do keep the weight farthest from the jig to allow it to really use its motion. This is how i have caught the majority of my steelhead on jigs.
From what I've seen, jigs are one of the few baits you do not want directly in front of the fish. I was always told 2/3 to 3/4 of the way down the water column. (7 feet down in 10 feet of water).
My favorite jigs are the beau-mac style, with two beads and a maribou tail, it gives the jig great action and looks as though it is swimming.
Finally, I tie a loop knot on to my jig in order to give it more motion and allow it to stay horizontal as it drifts through the run. For this reason, I do not tip my jigs with bait, as it interferes with the natural drift
Cheers
Couldent agree more, deep water longer leader to get that proper action. Yet twitching jigs is by far the most productive way to fish them if you can find deep and slow enough water.