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[cammer]

My belief is a deflection rip rap wall like has been done countless times on the vedder , ( peach road, native land, Osborne, slab, slesse, etc etc) will push water back to hatchery so fish have to swim in main river to hatchery, the fish always tended to hold above and below the confluence and 100s of angler days in summer would be met with success with springs and summer runs from.late June to early August. We need this to happen to give vedder a break from all the pressure

[CohoJake]

My belief is a deflection rip rap wall like has been done countless times on the vedder , ( peach road, native land, Osborne, slab, slesse, etc etc) will push water back to hatchery so fish have to swim in main river to hatchery, the fish always tended to hold above and below the confluence and 100s of angler days in summer would be met with success with springs and summer runs from.late June to early August. We need this to happen to give vedder a break from all the pressure

Sounds great to me - how do we crowd-fund it?  I imagine it isn't as simple as finding the money to do it, there are other issues/stakeholders involved.  Of course, I would imagine there are plenty of anglers who target coho on the Chehalis who appreciate the inaccessibility because it keeps pressure down. 

The old hatchery pool on the Chehalis sometimes got worse than the old limit hole on the Chilliwack - coho schools so thick there was no way to avoid snagging them, and plenty of people not caring and casting into the black mass anyway.  But you are right, in the summer, it was a great place to fish - both for the elusive summer steelhead and for red springs.  Does anyone know if these are the same stock of red springs as the Vedder?  I always assumed they were.

[cammer]

bowron lake stock i do believe is source for chehalis and vedder.  Getting this done could be achieved im sure with right stakeholders behind it,  the chehalis band is a very approachable and if the right plan was backed with science and obvious previous successes and benefits, it may fly??as for any sportsfisherman who would object i have many examples to explain the overwhelming benefits . habitat for chum would greatly increase in old hatchery channel as well. The tourist dollars would again flow as prettys lodge would again attract the high spending european fisherman. BUT the NUMBER ONE REASON id like to see it back is BROOD CAPTURES WOULD AGAIN BE ENOUGH TO SUPPORT MANY ANGLER DAYS

[Steelhawk]

May be this is just a joke of the follies and priorities of our government. They have 10 million to give away to a terrorist and say sorry but in contrast our funding for fisheries keep dropping year after year while the quality and opportunity of fishing has been dropping while the license fees never drop a cent, and no sorry forthcoming from these head honchos. LOL. Chehalis has been the 2nd most productive system in the LML before and now fish can't get back to the hatchery. This should be a high priority for fishery enhancement. Yet they say no to enhance one of their own facilities.

Those of us who have fished the Chehalis years before remember the glory days of the river bending towards the hatchery there with tons of fish parking along those runs at the bend. It will definitely take the pressure off other systems (Vedder, Stave, etc) if Cammer's effort to move the river back to the hatchery is successful and fishing pick up there. DFO saying no to the suggestion is pathetic but what else is new to this fishermen-unfriendly organization. They serve their masters of other user groups but never the sporties.

[joshhowat]

Last year in the Albion test nests by July 27, 234 springs

This year 48.

[wildmanyeah]

I could be wrong, but personally I wouldn't directly compare date to date each year. Humans use calendars which vary a bit from the actual seasons, look at leap years for example. We had a bit of a late winter, and a late spring, so maybe the salmon work more with the actual seasons/weather/migration path/etc than our Gregorian calendars, and simply haven't decided to run yet . Or maybe they traveled up the other side of the river than the test net drifted, or maybe they went by when the net wasn't out, etc.. there are a lot of variables! Simply comparing the date and numbers may not do justice .

Black berry crop looks like its gonna be crap this year that means salmons gonna be crap. Thats the way i judge it lol

[wildmanyeah]

EXTREMELY VALID POINT!

May i add that this also applies on a scale of at least a couple generations of fish.  ie:  2-3 4 year cycles.  Some years... only the Strongest fish survive -> which is actually in the long run a good thing. The "Best" of the wild stock lives on and then in good years produces a generation of significantly healthy runs.

The main PROBLEM is that when you have a COMMERCIAL FISHERY absolutely decimating the numbers year after year after year..... there really is no mathematical hope.  Climate, dams.... pollution, Seals all play a role.... however, their combined numbers mean little compared to the impact of Commercial Fisheries.

CLOSE the COMMERCIAL FISHEIRES. (Jimmy Pattison's Monopoly)
Put back all FRESH WATER Control back into the PROVINCIAL & MUNICIPAL hands.

I think its mostly to do with ocean survival rates. Salmon are starving to death at sea as there is no food and higher water temperatures are bring in more predictors.  This run of steel head as not seen any commercial or fishing on it in years and its about to see its lowest return ever.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/jul/17/steelhead-numbers-even-lower-predicted-columbia-snake-rivers/

"Ron Roler said the low steelhead numbers mimic other data from this year’s salmon and steelhead runs. The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist at Olympia said spring chinook numbers were down, the Columbia River sockeye count is well below forecast and ocean fishing indicates a poor run of coho can be expected"

[cammer]

Vedder red spring return this year is basically over in my experienced opinion. I was out Monday and yesterday, didn't see a splash of a single sockeye let alone a red spring in numerous traditional " hot spots", whatever the reasons people,, thats 2 Dearth years and thats enough for me to say something major is wrong

[CohoJake]

I think its mostly to do with ocean survival rates. Salmon are starving to death at sea as there is no food and higher water temperatures are bring in more predictors.  This run of steel head as not seen any commercial or fishing on it in years and its about to see its lowest return ever.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/jul/17/steelhead-numbers-even-lower-predicted-columbia-snake-rivers/

"Ron Roler said the low steelhead numbers mimic other data from this year’s salmon and steelhead runs. The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist at Olympia said spring chinook numbers were down, the Columbia River sockeye count is well below forecast and ocean fishing indicates a poor run of coho can be expected"

The Snake River and Columbia River fish have some uniquely bad conditions to deal with - with so many dams to traverse and high water temps for the out-migrating fish. Returns were expected to be poor because they tracked the poor outgoing survival.

[Nicolas The Fisherman]

Vedder red spring return this year is basically over in my experienced opinion. I was out Monday and yesterday, didn't see a splash of a single sockeye let alone a red spring in numerous traditional " hot spots", whatever the reasons people,, thats 2 Dearth years and thats enough for me to say something major is wrong

Though last year wasn't spectacular by any stretch (not like 2015 anyways), there were plenty more springs in the lower sections of the river compared to this year. There were even days when 8 reds were taken. I've been out almost half the month (15 trips approx.) with most of these trips starting around 4:30 am, and I haven't even touched a sockeye. Haven't seen a single spring roll either. The only fish I've seen the entire season up to this point has been one runt sockeye roll close to shore. Considering the red spring run's small to begin with, if the return numbers aren't "up to par", then we should all expect slow fishing. However, it's nice just to get out and enjoy the summer weather, and catching a fish should really just be a bonus - though I certainly wouldn't mind bbqing a red or two every now and then

[cammer]

Nicholas , upriver last year was awful  whereas this year my first 2 outtings I killed 3 fish , then last 2 were skunks. You were out 15xs this year and didn't see a fish down river??   that totally sucks,   mid river had fish almost everyday "I heard" when they were in. 2015 was spectacular alright but ive had 25 years experience fishing this run and yes we should expect harvestable numbers,   plenty years have been stuffed with springs like 2015 and one day about 12 years ago I hooked 20 fish in one day

[wildmanyeah]

The Snake River and Columbia River fish have some uniquely bad conditions to deal with - with so many dams to traverse and high water temps for the out-migrating fish. Returns were expected to be poor because they tracked the poor outgoing survival.

I'm confused because it clearly states well below forecasted returns. If they expected it to be poor why would they not include that in their forecast?

[cammer]

I fish in Oregon and the boys down there are experiencing poor summer red returns as well as summer run steelhead in lots of rivers

[Steelhawk]

If all the rivers from BC to the south in the States are in trouble and Alaska is doing well, perhaps it is the 'blob' effect during the brood year that somebody said massive blob of warm water came up north to bring along millions of tunas and mackerel to clean house on our juvenile fish. Alaska is spared as the warm water predators probably didn't make it up that north. The bolb was discover in 2013 and continued to 2016. So this is the 4th year afterwards and that seems to match with the 4 year life cycle of salmon. Let's hope this theory doesn't hold up and the fish are just late.

These are some write-ups on this problem:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/09/warm-water-pacific-coast-algae-nino/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blob_(Pacific_Ocean)

[Sterling C]

The Americans have been predicting this for a while now and it had nothing to do with outgoing smolt migrations.

https://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fe/estuarine/oeip/b-latest-updates.cfm