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[wildmanyeah]

So, give us an example of how salmon farming has impacted Fraser River chinook returns.

lol please Dave you know he can't we have 160+ pages in the other forum topic about it.

But he is right that the discussion should be focused about the ecosystem and not who gets what of an ever shrinking pie. There has been hardly any targeted fisheries at chinook or sockeye on some of these cycles that keep just getting smaller and smaller.

Chum have been increasing because there available feed at ocean has been abundant in recent years so imagine that! 

Ocean temperatures, ocean feeding grounds and the availability of food are imo what need to be studied more. Is there a way to enhance it?

so unless there is some shenanigans going on outside of canadian waters I think it's time to stop the finger pointing at targeted fisheries.

[wildmanyeah]

Dave this is your stock reply and I will give you mine, how have fish farms improved Fraser River Chinook returns.

They allow restaurants to sell salmon to people who want to eat it without an impact on wild salmon

[Dave]

They allow restaurants to sell salmon to people who want to eat it without an impact on wild salmon

Exactly so.

[milo]

The real problem is commercial over-fishing in the ocean to satisfy the demands of an ever-growing population who like to eat fish and sea-food.
I say thank goodness for fish farms, or else someone would soon be eating the LAST wild pacific salmon.

If you are a true sports fisherman, instead of whining about the declining fishery on the Vedder, expand your horizons and try fishing for other species and at other locations. For several years now, I have traded the summer Vedder for interior high elevation lakes, with outstanding results. Some of those lakes yield HUGE trout that taste delicious.

In addition, there are several other rivers in the LML that will yield Chinook salmon if you know when and where to look.

Vedder-schmedder. Practically impossible to fish anymore without running into stupid and ignorant people. Plus it is a nightmare to drive back home after a day of fishing it, especially on summer weekends. You can have it all to yourself until the fall and the crisp coho mornings.

[cammer]

Milo, so u found nirvana with all your Fly BC cronies, well done... however your lack of success on vedder springs and subsequently becoming a trout fisherman does nothing to identify the declining stocks or poor returns seen last 2 years. I'd like to know where in.the lower mainland you said we can find springs right now?? Please insight me and others and if you say Chehalis you better understand I know that river like the back of my hand and its issues

[milo]

Cammer, I believe I HAVE identified the reason for declining stocks and poor returns in my post.

To answer your question, springs are quite abundant in the Squamish area now, especially in one of its tributaries.
But there is ZERO retention, so no crowds nor idiots lining the shores.
It also helps that COs are stationed almost permanently there checking for licenses, barbed hooks and, of course, illegal catches.

Sadly, all that will change in a week or so when hordes start driving out to fish for the ONE pink salmon they are allowed to retain. 
Hopefully, they will soon open the Vedder for pinks, too, and that may take the pressure off of the last peaceful flows in the vicinity of Vancouver.

[GENERAL-SHERMAN]

Why drive to Squamish to catch and release... isn't the Fraser open to catch and release fishing for steelhead and dolly . I'm sure you might catch the odd spring while targeting those species. Just make sure you buy your steelhead tag.

[milo]

Because the Fraser is not exactly fly-friendly, that's why. 

[Apennock]

Hopefully, they will soon open the Vedder for pinks, too, and that may take the pressure off of the last peaceful flows in the vicinity of Vancouver.

Oh sure, ship 'me all out to the Valley.  Just like the Olympics!!

[GENERAL-SHERMAN]

Because the Fraser is not exactly fly-friendly, that's why. 

Who said anything about fly fishing .

[milo]

Who said anything about fly fishing .

And who said anything about not fly-fishing. 

[cammer]

Milo I'm not going to call Squamish in.the lower mainland but where are all the " several other rivers" u reference as having springs? You mention eating trout and thats fine but it's also Allright for locals to want to kill a red meat spring and until recent years a " good fisherman " could guarantee seeing pools of fish in many location on 2 rivers, so to say go trout fish is not helping this situation especially now that lakes are warm and trout soft n muddy in most places. We have diminishing opportunities in the lower mainland and its getting worse, I've tried numerous times to Move the Chehalis so we could again have a " viable alternative to spread the crowds that happen on the vedder. It's a sad sad state

[milo]

Milo I'm not going to call Squamish in.the lower mainland but where are all the " several other rivers" u reference as having springs? You mention eating trout and thats fine but it's also Allright for locals to want to kill a red meat spring and until recent years a " good fisherman " could guarantee seeing pools of fish in many location on 2 rivers, so to say go trout fish is not helping this situation especially now that lakes are warm and trout soft n muddy in most places. We have diminishing opportunities in the lower mainland and its getting worse, I've tried numerous times to Move the Chehalis so we could again have a " viable alternative to spread the crowds that happen on the vedder. It's a sad sad state

I know Cammer, and I am sorry for the current state of affairs. Human greed has created this situation and it will only get worse rather than better.
I wish we could have our cake and eat it, too, but in this particular area that is not possible.

As a result, I have chosen not to cry over spilled beans.
When I want a red spring really badly, I buy one at the pier in Steveston or at Bruce's Market in Maple Ridge.
Or, alternatively, I book a guided salmon/halibut fishing trip out of Uke.

Peace.

[CohoJake]

We have diminishing opportunities in the lower mainland and its getting worse, I've tried numerous times to Move the Chehalis so we could again have a " viable alternative to spread the crowds that happen on the vedder. It's a sad sad state

Are you saying you tried to move the Chehalis river itself back to the good-ol-days of the hatchery hole?  Wouldn't that be nice. 

[cammer]

About 8 years ago, I arranged a meeting with BCFDF,,Chehalis Band and DFO and one other entity. I wanted desperately to get river back to hatchery so fishing would improve again to where it should be not like it is now(piss poor) . DFO said no way so I said we needed a trail at least to get brood stock to hatchery, I cut that with another BCFDF 'er and then the trail came into being. That didn't work out the way it was hoped and the trail washed out in many areas . Brood stocking is the major issue for steelhead but the Summer spring and fall coho are hatchery bred so they come back to the nearly dry channel. However the summer springs and steelhead come into the lower river and race right into the hatchery or Canyon leaving poor fishing opportunity