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[GENERAL-SHERMAN]

Looked over the keith Wilson today and there was none in sight. Noticed around the 15th of July a Indian was killing sockeye Behind the reserve just up from crossing. One young guy had about 4-5 sockeye on a string walking down the rd. I Dont know where they were netting though.Honestly what do we expect... give them the green light to start netting these fish they aren't going to stop regardless of run sizes. I used to report them consistently on the vedder but now it's pointless. They need to draw the river back away from that stink hole.

[Birkenhead]

Looked over the keith Wilson today and there was none in sight. Noticed around the 15th of July a Indian was killing sockeye Behind the reserve just up from crossing. One young guy had about 4-5 sockeye on a string walking down the rd. I Dont know where they were netting though.Honestly what do we expect... give them the green light to start netting these fish they aren't going to stop regardless of run sizes. I used to report them consistently on the vedder but now it's pointless. They need to draw the river back away from that stink hole.

It is not just FN causing the fishing problems on the Vedder and other rivers. Over the years, I have seen and reported many people of other ethnic backgrounds on various river systems. The Thompson River which is in worse shape then the Vedder is a perfect example of the poaching and over fishing problem.

Also in regards to the lack of Chinook on the river, need to look how many Chinook are being taken in the salt around here. Every week on FB and other social media, there are plenty of images of Chinook being caught in the local waters by locals, charters, lodges etc. Extrapolate that by how many don't post to social media and also consider the total take of Chinook in all coastal BC waters and it equates to thousands per week. I know that over on the sportfishing bc forum, Fishin_Magician recently ran some numbers such as this and he was criticized somewhat, but there is a lot of truth in those numbers as those thousands of Chinook caught weekly in the salt has an obvious impact on the Chinook not returning to the local rivers.

[GENERAL-SHERMAN]

I'm just reporting what I saw. Obviously it's not just First Nations Poaching... just mostly. But I don't see any fishermen walking around bonking sockeye and throwing nets out with no consequences. Grab a fishing rod and do it like the rest of us. Quit acting like savages. I may not know a ton about ocean survival or speculation about where the stocks are going but I've grown up on this river and it's horrible to watch this neglect and lack of enforcement.

[cammer]

Was out today all over the river , I am very knowledgeable about this run and this is going to be a poor return on the whole. Last year was worse though. Our fisheries are dying around here for many reasons, take summer chinook for example. Last 2 year s dead, the Chehalis has almost no "FISHERY " on their return with due to hatchery not having a river joining it. In the past both systems through the 90s and into 2000,s were awesome producers of salmon, rivers were full of red springs, guys were spread out and...... you could go for sockeye afterwards, now we struggle to find a fish in a pool and know we may only get one shot at sockeye on Fraser every 4 years. Comes down to we are a seeing multiple factors taking these fish which first nations has to be a prime reason for collapses

[cammer]

Ps ocean recreational fisherman target lots of stocks but "MOST" are clipped aka Oregon fish etc.   Thank God for American hatcheries otherwise it be a dead zone

[Apennock]

I second that.  Even the most determined of poachers/unethical fishermen couldn't come close to doing the damage that a commercial vessel does operating completely within the law. 

[wildmanyeah]

there are multiple reasons for declining stocks.

I wish more people would Focus on ONE THING and ONE THING ONLY ->The COMMERCIAL FISHERY.

It is the most Significant Harvester there is by far.  Literally 10-1 over sport fishery takes.
It is estimated to generate about 300 or so million a year.

They are currently "debating" a 3.5 to 4 BILLION dollar Bridge (Massey Tunnel).
Are you freakin kidding me?   

SHUT DOWN the COMMERCIAL FISHERY!   SHUT IT DOWN!   PERIOD.

The math says to hit the MAJORITY .... not the MINORITY.  The commercial fleets  KILL EVERYTHING.
Shut them down.

Just my opinion.

salmon farms would be racking in the doe then!

[wildmanyeah]

The 2013 run almost saw no commercial fishery for sockeye and this year the run is shaping up to be much smaller. Why? not because of overfishing but it looks like other factors probably ocean water temperatures.  Even in Japan their stocks are in decline its pacific ocean trend http://russgeorge.net/2017/01/31/japanese-salmon-fisheries-in-historic-collapse/

"Across the Pacific ocean salmon pastures have failed and precious salmon have largely starved to death at sea."

I will agree that commercial fishing fleet does seem overdone when it comes to chinook. Lots of trollers out there intercept fraser river chinook but numbers on it seem also unclear altho if a chinook has white flesh odds are it came from the fraser river so it seems that they could get data on it.

I think I remember Nog arguing against this in favor of this saying that Fraser river stocks being caught in other parts of the ocean is not a big concern.   

Also it seems unclear what proportion of BC salmon is caught in Alaska or by japanese fishing fleet way off shore.

But remember as long as FN and Commercial fleets are allowed to fish the Recs will be allowed too. 

What you want will see Rec fishery closed down.  so be careful what you ask for!

Idk if I made any sense i should not drink and forum at the same time!

[wildmanyeah]

s

[RainbowMan]

Also in regards to the lack of Chinook on the river, need to look how many Chinook are being taken in the salt around here. Every week on FB and other social media, there are plenty of images of Chinook being caught in the local waters by locals, charters, lodges etc. Extrapolate that by how many don't post to social media and also consider the total take of Chinook in all coastal BC waters and it equates to thousands per week. I know that over on the sportfishing bc forum, Fishin_Magician recently ran some numbers such as this and he was criticized somewhat, but there is a lot of truth in those numbers as those thousands of Chinook caught weekly in the salt has an obvious impact on the Chinook not returning to the local rivers.

Keep blamin' the sporties. you're definitely on the right track here....

[Birkenhead]

Keep blamin' the sporties. you're definitely on the right track here....

It's not about blaming the sporties at all. Rather it is to demonstrate that there is a lot more to the lack of fish in the rivers that people need to take into account - along with a boatload of other variables.

[RalphH]

blame who you want. Non-tidal sport salmon fishing will be shut down before tidal. FN fisheries will be the last.

[jessestmars]

That's "Great".....   

Seriously,  again.... outside of whatever peoples views on them.  They still do not affect the DIRECT NUMBERS that the Commercial Fishery does.  We talk, we fight amongst ourselves....

Many valid points.... but ADD them UP all together, and they still do not represent the IMPACT of the Commercial fishery.  I'm a Sport Fisherman,  i know we are dealing with declining stocks.

SO:  Focus on what is TAKING the MATHEMATICAL most numbers =  Commercial Fishery.

It really is THAT SIMPLE!

They represent less than 1% of the People. * Very small group controlling the entire Stocks ( and by "Control" - Their sole purpose is to HARVEST. That is not directly true of the Sport Industry. It is not 100% harvest based)

They Take over 90% of the allotted fish .... plus Untold amounts of "By Catch"

We represent more than 95% of the People (Sport fishermen & Industry)
We create MORE overall and Spread out economic benefit to the entire Province.

It's time to STOP the COMMERCIAL FISHERIES.

It seems this topic will forever be a merry-go-round of the same talking points. We're all arguing on who is taking the available fish. What concerns me is the actual number of available fish. As we're hearing these fish counts drop, the heat of the argument of 'who gets what' increases (and likely continue to do so). That said, I think we should be focusing our debates/energy on the ECOSYSTEM in order to ensure these fish counts have the opportunity to increase. I believe this is the root of this issue, and the biggest challenge facing this Ecosystem is the FISH FARM industry. I would love to see more online awareness and ideas turn into action against the Fish Farming industry. For me, I'm ticked at our reduced fisheries opportunities as we all are, so how do we on this forum and in our own communities make strides forward on a solution?

[Dave]

I believe this is the root of this issue, and the biggest challenge facing this Ecosystem is the FISH FARM industry. I would love to see more online awareness and ideas turn into action against the Fish Farming industry. For me, I'm ticked at our reduced fisheries opportunities as we all are, so how do we on this forum and in our own communities make strides forward on a solution?

So, give us an example of how salmon farming has impacted Fraser River chinook returns.

[EZ_Rolling]

Dave this is your stock reply and I will give you mine, how have fish farms improved Fraser River Chinook returns.