Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on June 20, 2011, 07:41:28 AM
-
Category(s):
ABORIGINAL - General Information,
RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0492-SALMON - Area 29 - Fraser River Spring (age 5-2) and Summer (age 5-2) Chinook: In-season prediction of returns to the Fraser River
The potential for low spawning escapements of Spring and Summer (age 5-2)
Fraser Chinook has been identified as a concern for 2011. To ensure fishery
management objectives are achieved, the Department bases fishery management
actions on whether in season estimated returns are less than 30,000 (zone 1),
less than 60,000 (zone 2), or greater than 60,000 (zone 3). Management actions
in each zone range from closures or fishery restrictions (zone 1), non-
retention or limited directed fisheries (zone 2), or directed fisheries (zone
3). Pre-season planning was based on a return less than 30,000 given the
potential for poor marine survival rates to have affected returns.
In season estimates of the return of Spring and Summer (age 5-2) chinook to the
Fraser River are based on the relationship between historical returns and
cumulative catch per unit effort (CPUE) at the Albion chinook test fishery for
the statistical weeks beginning in May through the second week in June. The
cumulative CPUE in 2011 is well below the historical average. The estimated
return of of Fraser Spring and Summer (age 5-2) chinook to the Fraser through
June 15th is approximatetly 50,000 chinook (zone 2).
The Department is considering management actions consistent with management
zone 2 after July 15, 2011. Specific management actions announced previously
to protect Fraser Spring 4-2 chinook (see FN0370 and FN0375) will remain in
effect until July 15, 2011 when greater than 70% of the Spring 4-2 chinook run
has entered the Fraser. Actions for Fraser Spring and Summer (age 5-2) chinook
after July 15th will be announced in separate fishery notices.
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Contact the local DFO office in your for more information.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0492
Sent June 17, 2011 at 15:34
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
-
I'm not arguing that the early Fraser spring run is not poor this year, however I wonder what effect the high and late spring run off water levels have on the Albion catch results..
There is a whole lot more water for the springs to run in, in a high water year so I would suggest that fewer of them are being intercepted.
-
I'm not arguing that the early Fraser spring run is not poor this year, however I wonder what effect the high and late spring run off water levels have on the Albion catch results..
There is a whole lot more water for the springs to run in, in a high water year so I would suggest that fewer of them are being intercepted.
Yes, this is without a doubt a major factor in not obtaining proper catch data as you do during lower flow levels.
-
The Albion chinook test fishery was not designed or put in place to measure stock abundance, as af and cg stated, because of fluctuating Fraser River flows.
Albion’s primary purpose is to gather tends in individual stock migrations and run timing, through DNA and other methods of sampling. Albion is the first data point of chinook entry into the Fraser; next comes catch data from FN and recreational fisheries, which we all know is not trusted by either side. The really good news is people are working on that issue
The final and most important data point is actual spawners counted and that is where DFO and FN (and it is FN that are leading this fight) have their best data …. and that shows these early timing Chinooks are in big, big trouble.
IMO, there should be no harvest by any user group on these stocks.
-
I've seen lots rolling on the days ive been out on the boat. and I mean lots.
-
I've seen a ton rolling since the begining of the month too... With the height of the river the albion will continue to not get many in the sets. It should definatley not be used as any kind of indicator to how many fish are in the river right now. I talked to a few native guys who told me despite the high water the fishing has been average and one guy said it's been really good as of late with a couple of sockeye caught as well.
-
This morning I saw at least 100 in the two hours we were out . The Albion nets don't get close to the true "gut" the fish travel . I stopped using it for an indicator a long time ago :/
-
DFO doesn't base run size count on Albion test fishery alone.
There are a few hydrocaustic stations (mobile and stationary) throughout Fraser R collecting fish count. That's the number DFO use.
-
It's not what is counted at the albion test fishery, observation of rollers , or what is caught in the native net fishery, but the number of spawners on the grounds. The early and mid timing stocks are in trouble and all user groups should refrain from fishing for them. What percentage of chinook bound for the Fraser are caught in the coastal sport fishery and how would you ever control such a large group? Release all wild fish and only keep hatchery marked fish?
-
It's not what is counted at the albion test fishery, observation of rollers , or what is caught in the native net fishery, but the number of spawners on the grounds. The early and mid timing stocks are in trouble and all user groups should refrain from fishing for them. What percentage of chinook bound for the Fraser are caught in the coastal sport fishery and how would you ever control such a large group? Release all wild fish and only keep hatchery marked fish?
This is correct but I am concerned about the cut backs by FOC which is and has effected the assessment crews that walk the streams and count from the air the spawners that have returned to their natal streams and rivers.
-
Chris
That is a concern along with cuts to hatchery production and habitat projects.
-
DFO doesn't base run size count on Albion test fishery alone.
There are a few hydrocaustic stations (mobile and stationary) throughout Fraser R collecting fish count. That's the number DFO use.
What are these hydroacoustic stations that you are referring to that "count" Chinook? As Dave has mentioned Albion is for stock abundance. It is for determining run strength, timing and biological information (i.e. DNA). It may seem like a "count", but the actual counting occurs on the spawning grounds which can include stream walks, aerial surveys and mark-recapture studies.
-
The native nets are just slaying em in the last few days saw about 30 in one net being brought in today with what looked like a bunch of sockeye as well :-\ kinda a shame since were supposed to be protecting this stock and spawning numbers are low. Our managment measures are pretty backwards...
-
The native nets are just slaying em in the last few days saw about 30 in one net being brought in today with what looked like a bunch of sockeye as well :-\ kinda a shame since were supposed to be protecting this stock and spawning numbers are low. Our managment measures are pretty backwards...
Where did you see this happening?
-
Where did you see this happening?
There's more than a few spots from the wing dam up to hope.
-
can you be more explicit? how many spots, where?
-
Ive seen it above and below gill road. Don't need to look very far or hard. From what I understand it is legal .
-
The natives currently have food and ceremonial openings on the Fraser. If they are catching sockeye, it is incidental as they are using mesh sizes that are designed to target chinook.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes_Previous.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes_Previous.html)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html)
-
The natives currently have food and ceremonial openings on the Fraser. If they are catching sockeye, it is incidental as they are using mesh sizes that are designed to target chinook.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes_Previous.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes_Previous.html)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html)
With opening like this I am very concerned how the Early Timed Chinooks will ever recover. At the start of this thread the FOC notice says "the cumulative CPUE in 2011 is well below the historical average". It does not make sense to me to have all these openings.
-
I was out walking the dog with my missus and mother-in-law out at Kanaka Creek Park in Maple Ridge. Saw about a 20 foot section of drift net (don't know how much more below the water surface) caught on one of the log boom poles (do they have a proper description? - the ones sticking out of the water that the booms are tied to) at the mouth of Kanaka Creek. :(
-
With opening like this I am very concerned how the Early Timed Chinooks will ever recover. At the start of this thread the FOC notice says "the cumulative CPUE in 2011 is well below the historical average". It does not make sense to me to have all these openings.
They gotta eat.... ???
-
I was out walking the dog with my missus and mother-in-law out at Kanaka Creek Park in Maple Ridge. Saw about a 20 foot section of drift net (don't know how much more below the water surface) caught on one of the log boom poles (do they have a proper description? - the ones sticking out of the water that the booms are tied to) at the mouth of Kanaka Creek. :(
Do you mean "Piles"? ;)
-
They gotta eat.... ???
But one would think that if it's in everybody's best interests, those of the natives included, that they could agree to close the fishery.
-
I've seen it above and below Gill road and at Peg Leg. I might go for a boot this afternoon and try to get some pics. From what I understand it is legal... not that means anything the nets will always be there... but It stinks that we cant talk any sense into a group of people who claim so much of their lives revolve around these fish I know alot of them are trying but our government fails us by allowing them to keep going ... I Guess they will learn when the salmon are all but a few pairs and theres a strict shut down of the rivers and we have patrol boats shooting poachers like in africa. It seems to me year after year the majority of the fish dissapear after they hit the Fraser. Dont get me wrong ocean survival and other factors play a huge roll as well but combine them all together and you have a Hitler like recipe for complete extermination.
-
Times are tough for some.. They have the right to provide for their family's .. I say if they allow netting ..we should be able to fish as well .
-
I say if they allow netting ..we should be able to fish as well .
So Mom was wrong...two wrongs do make a right?
-
So Mom was wrong...two wrongs do make a right?
I did not say it was wrong , infact I said it was legal. It should also be open and legal for sporties.
-
I did not say it was wrong , infact I said it was legal. It should also be open and legal for sporties.
But it won't be - they will give the Natives whatever they want, as per usual, and the rest of us will have to watch while the desecration of a great river and the extinction of a great species occurs.
Go, B.C., go.
J
-
What are these hydroacoustic stations that you are referring to that "count" Chinook? As Dave has mentioned Albion is for stock abundance. It is for determining run strength, timing and biological information (i.e. DNA). It may seem like a "count", but the actual counting occurs on the spawning grounds which can include stream walks, aerial surveys and mark-recapture studies.
The closest one is just above Mission Bridge and another at Hell's Gate fishway.
-
The closest one is just above Mission Bridge and another at Hell's Gate fishway.
BiwiBwi, the Pacific Salmon Commission indeed operates a hydro acoustic sockeye enumerating site at Mission; the only other hydroacoustic site up river is at Qualark, a DFO/Yale FN operation near Yale that uses a different technology, again designed to count sockeye but with proper funding could enumerate chinook. Hells Gate numbers are generated by visual observations only, for all species.
-
But it won't be - they will give the Natives whatever they want, as per usual, and the rest of us will have to watch while the desecration of a great river and the extinction of a great species occurs.
Go, B.C., go.
J
It will be . Mark my words
-
BiwiBwi, the Pacific Salmon Commission indeed operates a hydro acoustic sockeye enumerating site at Mission; the only other hydroacoustic site up river is at Qualark, a DFO/Yale FN operation near Yale that uses a different technology, again designed to count sockeye but with proper funding could enumerate chinook. Hells Gate numbers are generated by visual observations only, for all species.
That was my take as well. I have never heard of a hydroacoustic operation on the Fraser that counts Chinook. I "believe" there is a Squamish area band that utilizes hydroacoustics to count Chinook, but I am not that familiar with that operation as I am with the Fraser.
-
It is true hydroacoustic station at Mission is mostly used to count sockeye and pink. However, on going research for using the same technique to count chinook is in place.
But you are correct I should not have said the technique is used for in season prediction. As it is still experimental.
-
That was my take as well. I have never heard of a hydroacoustic operation on the Fraser that counts Chinook. I "believe" there is a Squamish area band that utilizes hydroacoustics to count Chinook, but I am not that familiar with that operation as I am with the Fraser.
There indeed was a hydroacoustic count done on the Cheakamus for chinook but that was a few years ago and is no longer in operation.It was funded by the Pacific Salmon Foundation and CN Rail as part of the Cheakamus recovery . Worked fairly well but the site has since changed and is no longer feasible to operate there. May be reinstated in the future but not currently.
-
There indeed was a hydroacoustic count done on the Cheakamus for chinook but that was a few years ago and is no longer in operation.It was funded by the Pacific Salmon Foundation and CN Rail as part of the Cheakamus recovery . Worked fairly well but the site has since changed and is no longer feasible to operate there. May be reinstated in the future but not currently.
Thanks for the information.