Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: IronNoggin on October 23, 2012, 11:51:52 AM
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This pretty much sums it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izbUjScUwyA
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Good one.
Unfortunately this is nothing new.
These agreements also exist between the provinces.
They are designed to "protect investments" in both countries.
In other words, those who own the companies can do what ever they want in another country and in return they will let some other rich industrialists do whatever they want in their country.
When everything turns to waste they will just move out and the rest of us will remain picking up the scraps from the pile.
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To sum it up, this is the result of capitalism! It just sucks our economy relies on selling our resources..
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feel free to live in a better country, these agrements have been in place with about 20 other countries for quite a time.
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... these agrements have been in place with about 20 other countries for quite a time.
NOT anywhere even close to the same extent as this private not-so-little deal will be!
Doing a little homework before spouting off usually makes one look much less The Fool:
"By Nov. 1 three of China's national oil companies will have more power to shape Canada's energy markets as well as challenge the politics of this country than Canadians themselves…
Also a Link to the Full text of this "deal". Have a read, there has NEVER been such a deal in Canadian History that gives away so much...
http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Federal-Politics/2012/10/14/China-Canada-Agreement/
It really takes your ability of public policy out of public interest hands, being the government, and puts into private investor hands.
A VERY Interesting Read with related links. Worth your time to peruse...
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/sustainability/chinese-companies-can-sue-bc-changing-course-northern-gateway-says-policy-expert
More background...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/what-if-nexen-coveted-cnooc/article4575332/
If you manage to digest the information contained in the above, and still have the same mindset, I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss...
Cheers,
Nog
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This sucks.. but it is just how the world is these days. Developed countries have been investing in third world countries with the main purpose of controlling their resources for a very long time right now. It just sucks right now that we are getting the bad end of the deal. I'm sure the natives didn't get many options when settlers came and took over their land.
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kevin o'leary likes it, cant be bad.
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Somebody's head has to roll over this
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This sucks.. but it is just how the world is these days. Developed countries have been investing in third world countries with the main purpose of controlling their resources for a very long time right now. It just sucks right now that we are getting the bad end of the deal. I'm sure the natives didn't get many options when settlers came and took over their land.
It doesnt make it right, and one day when 90% of the apathetic attitudes of Canadians change we may get enough people to raise thier voices to make the changes. But as long as we have our gadgets like Iphones and a regular income nothing else matters, and corporations will continue to rape our resources and export them with little or no value added processing, which is ironic given most have children to hand this mess down to. :P 50 years ago a regular working man could afford to have his wife at home with the children..how many on this board can say they can afford to do this anymore with any hope of owning a house, how long until cheap imported labour changes this and the give away of our resources changes this even further?
One day you can look at your children and tell them you were just too busy to prevent this because it was too inconvienient for you to do anything about it at the time
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It doesnt make it right, and one day when 90% of the apathetic attitudes of Canadians change we may get enough people to raise thier voices to make the changes. But as long as we have our gadgets like Iphones and a regular income nothing else matters, and corporations will continue to rape our resources and export them with little or no value added processing, which is ironic given most have children to hand this mess down to. :P 50 years ago a regular working man could afford to have his wife at home with the children..how many on this board can say they can afford to do this anymore with any hope of owning a house, how long until cheap imported labour changes this and the give away of our resources changes this even further?
One day you can look at your children and tell them you were just too busy to prevent this because it was too inconvienient for you to do anything about it at the time
Yes your words sound very righteous, lets hope you will take action to stop our resources from being sold. In the past we've signed deals that has screwed us over like NAFTA, and sadly we will be making the same mistake again.
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How many want to go back 50 yrs ,dont tell me we were better off then than now, and you want women to stay at home, i dont think that will fly in 2012.
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50 years ago we were better off. The economy was booming, living wages that allowed a single income to support a family were the norm rather than the exception, less concentration of wealth and income at the top meant that the benefits of society were shared and resulted in more social cohesion and the probability that the next generation would be better off than the current generation was real instead of an illusion.
Mind you, we didn't have big screen TVs, iPhones, monster houses and automobiles that do everything except wipe your bottom nor did we have a society financed with debt and dependent on increases in that debt to finance continuing economic growth. Nor did we have a political system that served business interests rather than the interests of society as a whole.
Being better off involves a whole lot more than just high levels of consumption.
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life expectancy 1n 1962 males 68 females 74 now males 79 females 83 11 more years to fish. no medicare till 1965 across canada ,you can keep it.
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eom
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50 years ago we were better off. The economy was booming, living wages that allowed a single income to support a family were the norm rather than the exception, less concentration of wealth and income at the top meant that the benefits of society were shared and resulted in more social cohesion and the probability that the next generation would be better off than the current generation was real instead of an illusion.
Mind you, we didn't have big screen TVs, iPhones, monster houses and automobiles that do everything except wipe your bottom nor did we have a society financed with debt and dependent on increases in that debt to finance continuing economic growth. Nor did we have a political system that served business interests rather than the interests of society as a whole.
Being better off involves a whole lot more than just high levels of consumption.
50 years ago, globalization was not as evident as it is now. The economy was booming because workers/labourers were not competing against anybody else outside of Canada. 50 years ago, seeing foreigners (chinese, persian, etc) living in the British Properties (West Vancouver) was also unheard of. 50 years ago, numerous countries just gained their independence from the colonial period.
50 years ago might have been better off for you, but now the rest of the world is better off. I'd much rather live in todays world..
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Regardless of the cause, and it goes well beyond globalization, and in spite of the gains made in other parts of the world, the fact remains that we as a society were better off then than we are now.
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Regardless of the cause, and it goes well beyond globalization, and in spite of the gains made in other parts of the world, the fact remains that we as a society were better off then than we are now.
Better for who though? the middle class white man ? I'm pretty sure if you ask anybody else or if you asked most women, the world is a lot better than 50 years ago. In your logic, then maybe it was even better 100 + years ago when women couldn't vote and colored people were openly discriminated against?
The fact is, now to make the same as you did before doing x amount of work. Now you need to do 5x to stay competative or to provide the same quality of living. Before having a post grad degree might have been a big deal, now it's pretty common to have a Bachelors Degree. The world from 50 years ago is more environmentally concious, smarter, more open to multiculturalism, and etc. Only way the world was better 50 years ago is if some people are still stuck 50 years ago when everything around them got better or improved over the years.
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Hey Nog,
I couldn't agree with you more on this. I have been aware of this nightmare of an agreement for about three weeks and have been telling everyone I know about it. A constitutional lawyer I know says that this has been something cooking in the Tory backrooms for quite some time and there has been very little mainstream media attention to this either, which I believe is a travesty. Whether you like this thing (which is hard to fathom IMHO :o) or not, there should be a heck of a lot more public consultation in a treaty so far reaching. There are a few petitions currently on the go calling for a delay in ratification and more debate and this is a link to one of them. http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/281/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=11824
Cheers,
Blueback
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Better for who though? the middle class white man ? I'm pretty sure if you ask anybody else or if you asked most women, the world is a lot better than 50 years ago. In your logic, then maybe it was even better 100 + years ago when women couldn't vote and colored people were openly discriminated against?
The fact is, now to make the same as you did before doing x amount of work. Now you need to do 5x to stay competative or to provide the same quality of living. Before having a post grad degree might have been a big deal, now it's pretty common to have a Bachelors Degree. The world from 50 years ago is more environmentally concious, smarter, more open to multiculturalism, and etc. Only way the world was better 50 years ago is if some people are still stuck 50 years ago when everything around them got better or improved over the years.
Bla bla bla Ed..
We are talking economics here. Not gender, race, nationality...
Economically "as a whole" western civilization is worse than 40 years ago. We cannot support a family of 4 on 1 salary.
Yes there are a few who are better off now, but they are less than 1 %.
If you think your Batchelors Degree is worth anything, you've got another thing coming. Less people have survival skills.
We weren't as environmentally aware because we didn't need to be. Environmental awareness came as a result of a crisis. It's not something we had to work towards.
If we didn't over populate the planet we wouldn't have to worry about the environment.
Multiculturalism is not new in most parts of western civilization. It is relatively new in North America.
Multiculturalism doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make anything better. It economiccally doesn't contribute to our well being.
All it does it provides, people like me, who are interested in travel and learning about different cultures an opportunity to do so.
Globalization also doesn't mean things are global, doesn't mean you can travel more, live in more places.
All it does is provides mobility to capital and those who have it.
All it did was to provide those who did business in your community an opportunity to move that business to another community to make more profit.
So now you are suddenly out of a job and you have to work more to keep your standard of living.
But things are changing I think. People are beginning to understand that your neighbour is your best friend and if you are not taking care of your neighbour you are not taking care of yourself.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTIOMJT5ubg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTIOMJT5ubg)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTIOMJT5ubg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTIOMJT5ubg)
Jolly good!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTIOMJT5ubg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTIOMJT5ubg)
So true, but just the tip of the iceberg!!!
Treasonous comes to mind... >:(
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Bla bla bla Ed..
We are talking economics here. Not gender, race, nationality...
Economically "as a whole" western civilization is worse than 40 years ago. We cannot support a family of 4 on 1 salary.
Yes there are a few who are better off now, but they are less than 1 %.
If you think your Batchelors Degree is worth anything, you've got another thing coming. Less people have survival skills.
We weren't as environmentally aware because we didn't need to be. Environmental awareness came as a result of a crisis. It's not something we had to work towards.
If we didn't over populate the planet we wouldn't have to worry about the environment.
Multiculturalism is not new in most parts of western civilization. It is relatively new in North America.
Multiculturalism doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make anything better. It economiccally doesn't contribute to our well being.
All it does it provides, people like me, who are interested in travel and learning about different cultures an opportunity to do so.
Globalization also doesn't mean things are global, doesn't mean you can travel more, live in more places.
All it does is provides mobility to capital and those who have it.
All it did was to provide those who did business in your community an opportunity to move that business to another community to make more profit.
So now you are suddenly out of a job and you have to work more to keep your standard of living.
But things are changing I think. People are beginning to understand that your neighbour is your best friend and if you are not taking care of your neighbour you are not taking care of yourself.
It is pretty ignorant to think that the economy is not linked with sociology or the environment itself. We lived in a globalized world today so everything is somewhat connected with each other. I totally agree that "as a whole" the "western" civilization was better before, but hey too bad! the world is changing and the balance of power is totally different than the world 40 years ago! I'm not sure where you were during urbanization but bush wacking skills doesn't do you good in the city! But hey a bachelors degree or a master''s degree will get you a better paying job! I can see why you are stuck 40 years ago with your views on education.
You weren't environmentally aware because only the "western" civilization was polluting the world where the third world countries just got out the colonial period. Search up the dust storms in the USA, American Bison or the impacts of the Industrial Revolution in England. The only reason why it's such a big problem now is that people who were not priviledged to have the "western" lifestyle are starting to achieve a better quality of life. And with this new life comes a stronger economy through industries and etc (more pollution).
I agree that globalization provides more mobility to capital, but to say it only goes to those who have it is wrong. If it wasn't for globalization and trade, chinese people in Canada wouldn't have access to the food/products that would be available in China. From a media point of view, if it wasn't for globalization people in China wouldn't be able to experience the music + movies made in the Americas. What you are trying to describe is the whole concept and ideology of Capitalism! Capitalism = the foundation of western economics is the reason how the western civilziation got so wealthy, but it doesn't feel so good when countries like China are benefiting from it more so than ever. I understand that there might be some bitter feelings, especially since it's a common thing that companies go to countries with lower salaries, but isn't it wrong to blame the people who are making pennies and put more blame on the actual companies?
Like I said in my prevoius post, the world WAS better for the middle class white man but now it's better for everybody else!
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Ed, I think there is a generational gap here.
You think that music and movies are benefiting China in some way and access to different foods means something to me here.
Let me summarize to you what the problem is.
My Fraser river here used to supply 500 million potato eaters in Europe with salmon for 100 years.
Now, my Faser river has to supply 1 billion potato eaters in Europe and 3 billion rice eaters in Asia.
That's really is globalization.
Population is the greatest pollution.
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Ed, I think there is a generational gap here.
You think that music and movies are benefiting China in some way and access to different foods means something to me here.
Let me summarize to you what the problem is.
My Fraser river here used to supply 500 million potato eaters in Europe with salmon for 100 years.
Now, my Faser river has to supply 1 billion potato eaters in Europe and 3 billion rice eaters in Asia.
That's really is globalization.
Population is the greatest pollution.
My point of China having music and movies was referring to them improving their lifestyle to actually afford these luxuries.
Well technically the Fraser river does not belong to you, so it might be a problem with you but for everybody else life just got better. I'm pretty sure our First Nations were the original owners of this land. It was the potato eaters in europe that took it from them and now the rice eaters from Asia are buying the land out. Since you are complaining about population, I believe the baby boomers born during 1946-1964 are the most to blame? 50 years ago, birth control also wasn't as common!
Its a pity that we are selling our lands to another country, but hey if we didn't plan on selling our resources we should have developed some better industries!
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Right on Rick Mercer!! You know, it seems funny to me that everyone that I've read, who opposes this agreement comes with facts, and references to those facts. The gov. folks only seem to come with platitudes and 'you really don't know as much as us important people, so don't worry because we say it's OK' comments. People, find a petition you like and sign it; write your MP; get this thing (at least) scrutinized by parliament. My children and yours depend on it!
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http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/China+plenty+options/7673939/story.html
nice article i found regarding the nexen acquisition.
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Better for who though? the middle class white man ?
Why the constant bigotry Ed? Is racism really needed? I've found constant themes in your posts that point to hatred of the "white man". This is Canada. We're CANADIANS and that includes all races, religions and creeds. Your bigotry is disgusting and after reviewing some of your posts, it's a constant theme.
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Yes,yes sell every thing we have,sell CP rail, sell CN rail,sell BC hydro,sell shark fin soup,sell all the resources we have and end up nothing for the future......freaking people.
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Why the constant bigotry Ed? Is racism really needed? I've found constant themes in your posts that point to hatred of the "white man". This is Canada. We're CANADIANS and that includes all races, religions and creeds. Your bigotry is disgusting and after reviewing some of your posts, it's a constant theme.
No i just had to point out that 50 years ago it wasn't better. Sadly 50 years ago racism was something that was quite common so i had to bring out the "race" card. If you want to put it in Canadian terms, then Canadians now are better off than 50 years ago. My posts just state the "facts" of what reality is like, and for most of the people saying that it was better off 50 years ago are probably not immigrants, women, or anything outside the "main society" of those times. The fact that history was like that in the past disgusts me and i'm glad that the world has evolved since then.
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Yes,yes sell every thing we have,sell CP rail, sell CN rail,sell BC hydro,sell shark fin soup,sell all the resources we have and end up nothing for the future......freaking people.
We might have some problems with the current economy if it wasn't for us "selling our resources". We have quite of bit of public expenditures which makes Canada such an appealing place to live, but the government needs to pay for it one way or another. Also with the baby boomers starting to become "seniors" there is a lot of tax pressures on the current working population. The USA has been investing in our resources/companies for years and I haven't seen even close as much complaints. At the end of the day is it about selling the resources or selling it to China?
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We might have some problems with the current economy if it wasn't for us "selling our resources". We have quite of bit of public expenditures which makes Canada such an appealing place to live, but the government needs to pay for it one way or another. Also with the baby boomers starting to become "seniors" there is a lot of tax pressures on the current working population. The USA has been investing in our resources/companies for years and I haven't seen even close as much complaints. At the end of the day is it about selling the resources or selling it to China?
Is the same as losing all your equity and the baby boomers has to borrow to live and end up nothing to left to sell.....what than?
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50 years ago we were better off. The economy was booming, living wages that allowed a single income to support a family were the norm rather than the exception, less concentration of wealth and income at the top meant that the benefits of society were shared and resulted in more social cohesion and the probability that the next generation would be better off than the current generation was real instead of an illusion.
Mind you, we didn't have big screen TVs, iPhones, monster houses and automobiles that do everything except wipe your bottom nor did we have a society financed with debt and dependent on increases in that debt to finance continuing economic growth. Nor did we have a political system that served business interests rather than the interests of society as a whole.
Being better off involves a whole lot more than just high levels of consumption.
100%
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We might have some problems with the current economy if it wasn't for us "selling our resources". We have quite of bit of public expenditures which makes Canada such an appealing place to live, but the government needs to pay for it one way or another. Also with the baby boomers starting to become "seniors" there is a lot of tax pressures on the current working population. The USA has been investing in our resources/companies for years and I haven't seen even close as much complaints. At the end of the day is it about selling the resources or selling it to China?
Government doesn't pay for anything.
Government doesn't have any money.
Government doesn't make any money.
They don't produce anything.
People need to get the government out of their heads.
It's about selling access to resources, it doesn't matter who they are selling it to.
And about selling the land resources we use to private insterests so that we can't use them any more.
China is just the biggest problem of many problems, because they are a huge economy and consume resource on a large scale.
For example, if we cut down all the trees in BC to supply Chinese housing market a few people in the lumber industry would make tonnes of money for a while.
But then we would all be poor and those with money would move to somewhere where there are still trees.
Most of the ecological collapses were due to some idiot getting the idea that they can make huge money by supplying a large demand for a resource somewhere.
Problem of today is that we are so connected and there is always a demand for something somewhere.
Resource management is the key.
Those who consume and lay destruction to their on land should die with it.
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We might have some problems with the current economy if it wasn't for us "selling our resources". We have quite of bit of public expenditures which makes Canada such an appealing place to live, but the government needs to pay for it one way or another. Also with the baby boomers starting to become "seniors" there is a lot of tax pressures on the current working population. The USA has been investing in our resources/companies for years and I haven't seen even close as much complaints. At the end of the day is it about selling the resources or selling it to China?
you need to check on who ownes the US companies that are/were investing in Canada, you will find that they more often than not are owned by
huge investement companies or trusts ie: blackwater and the dead ends you find with their upper management/board.
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China needs every thing and next is India.
The Chinese working population is more than 250 million,the total population of USA is 250 million people.So the Chinese must buy every thing in the world.
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No i just had to point out that 50 years ago it wasn't better. Sadly 50 years ago racism was something that was quite common so i had to bring out the "race" card. If you want to put it in Canadian terms, then Canadians now are better off than 50 years ago. My posts just state the "facts" of what reality is like, and for most of the people saying that it was better off 50 years ago are probably not immigrants, women, or anything outside the "main society" of those times. The fact that history was like that in the past disgusts me and i'm glad that the world has evolved since then.
But you generalize AND THAT'S GARBAGE. ARE OR WERE ALL "WHITE PEOPLE" LIKE THAT? I guess I could make generalizations about any number of people- relating to the past - but would that be reasonable? You brought up slavery in another thread, I posted it and a little history lesson and you put a spin on it saying it was OK because of the "time" and "a feudal relationship", not a "colonial" that had "worse" slavery. Slavery is slavery, no matter how you choose to "think" ABOUT IT. Or generalize it.
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But you generalize AND THAT'S GARBAGE. ARE OR WERE ALL "WHITE PEOPLE" LIKE THAT? I guess I could make generalizations about any number of people- relating to the past - but would that be reasonable? You brought up slavery in another thread, I posted it and a little history lesson and you put a spin on it saying it was OK because of the "time" and "a feudal relationship", not a "colonial" that had "worse" slavery. Slavery is slavery, no matter how you choose to "think" ABOUT IT. Or generalize it.
X2
It's frequently the case when someone runs out of arguments with the white guy, they always use the race, slavery, colonial whatever card.
Anyone educated knows how those slaves ended up being sold. It was their own tribes, or enemy tribes, that sold them into slavery.
Today we still have, in Asia, where people sell their kids into slavery and sex trade, child labour etc.
While majority of the whites are way past the slavery age, some people still keep bringing it up.
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X2
It's frequently the case when someone runs out of arguments with the white guy, they always use the race, slavery, colonial whatever card.
Anyone educated knows how those slaves ended up being sold. It was their own tribes, or enemy tribes, that sold them into slavery.
Today we still have, in Asia, where people sell their kids into slavery and sex trade, child labour etc.
While majority of the whites are way past the slavery age, some people still keep bringing it up.
Thank you. I did a little search through Ed's posts and that seems to be a common thread. I find that just a revolting regardless of race. This blaming "whitey" is repugnant. And as to a "privileged" existence, I was brought up by a poor east coast fishing family that couldn't afford an indoor bathroom until I was 12. As I'm in my mid fifties, I should have been, according to our resident ignoramus, living in the lap of luxury. I did get to eat a lot of lobster ;)
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Why the constant bigotry Ed? Is racism really needed? I've found constant themes in your posts that point to hatred of the "white man". This is Canada. We're CANADIANS and that includes all races, religions and creeds. Your bigotry is disgusting and after reviewing some of your posts, it's a constant theme.
X2 thank you for someone else pointing it out.
Lets not forget the one where apparently all Canadians in mining and oil industry are drug addicts anyways
I am aware this is a forum where many different perspectives are welcome and add to the quality of discussion. But sometimes things are best kept to yourself. And if it continues I hope a moderator will intervene somewhere along the way
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But you generalize AND THAT'S GARBAGE. ARE OR WERE ALL "WHITE PEOPLE" LIKE THAT? I guess I could make generalizations about any number of people- relating to the past - but would that be reasonable? You brought up slavery in another thread, I posted it and a little history lesson and you put a spin on it saying it was OK because of the "time" and "a feudal relationship", not a "colonial" that had "worse" slavery. Slavery is slavery, no matter how you choose to "think" ABOUT IT. Or generalize it.
How is it generalizing when it is true that the "middle class white man" was better off 50 years ago and everybody else including women were not ? Can you provide any sources that proves me wrong? 50 years ago many of the countries in the world just got independence through colonialism? I dont think life was too great.
50 years ago i'm sure if you were an immigrant, life would also be pretty tough. I'm sure not 100 percent of the people were racist but racism was a wide spread problem throughout the world. Are you denying the truth of what happend in history?
Also YES there is a difference if you have slavery amongst your own country VS importing slaves from other countries to exploit them. A. when you enslave your own people it is a "class" struggle but when you import slaves you have "class" problems as well as "race" issues. The fact that you think they are both the same shows your bias. You must think the Opium Wars or the activities of the British East Indian Company were all fair game ( since it's just "trade") .
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Government doesn't pay for anything.
Government doesn't have any money.
Government doesn't make any money.
They don't produce anything.
People need to get the government out of their heads.
It's about selling access to resources, it doesn't matter who they are selling it to.
And about selling the land resources we use to private insterests so that we can't use them any more.
China is just the biggest problem of many problems, because they are a huge economy and consume resource on a large scale.
For example, if we cut down all the trees in BC to supply Chinese housing market a few people in the lumber industry would make tonnes of money for a while.
But then we would all be poor and those with money would move to somewhere where there are still trees.
Most of the ecological collapses were due to some idiot getting the idea that they can make huge money by supplying a large demand for a resource somewhere.
Problem of today is that we are so connected and there is always a demand for something somewhere.
Resource management is the key.
Those who consume and lay destruction to their on land should die with it.
So what you are saying is that revenue generated from the government never goes back to infrastructure development ? I wonder who paid for all the bike lanes in downtown Vancouver, the improvements done on the Port Mann Bridge, or even the upgrade to Lions Gate Bridge few years ago. I'm sure purely from tax dollars the province would not have the income to pay for it. Also I hope you are aware that in Canada, only few provinces actually have any profit. BC, Alberta, and Ontario are the top 3, where would the less developed provinces get their funds from ? I'm sure the federal government splits the profit accordingly amongst the province.
Trust me Canada isn't the only trading partner for China for lumber. They also import lumber from Russia, South America, and etc. Trading is just part of economic development, nothing wrong with that. It's not like China is going to take all our resources....
Selling our resources today helps the people of today, but it creates a negative impact on the future ( few generations later). I agree that its not a good practice but we did this to ourselves by not developing any other industries. Resource is KEY but not when you're a "staples economy", how do you not sell resources when you are highly dependent on it and still have economic growth?
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Thank you. I did a little search through Ed's posts and that seems to be a common thread. I find that just a revolting regardless of race. This blaming "whitey" is repugnant. And as to a "privileged" existence, I was brought up by a poor east coast fishing family that couldn't afford an indoor bathroom until I was 12. As I'm in my mid fifties, I should have been, according to our resident ignoramus, living in the lap of luxury. I did get to eat a lot of lobster ;)
Since you were born in the eastcoast during that period, you must be familiar with the North Atlantic Cod Industry. What happend to employment in some of the provinces that were heavily dependent on the fisheries? The government usually have other priorities like employment and social well being before they think about the environment. I'm sure if we were short on resources we would not be selling it.
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X2
It's frequently the case when someone runs out of arguments with the white guy, they always use the race, slavery, colonial whatever card.
Anyone educated knows how those slaves ended up being sold. It was their own tribes, or enemy tribes, that sold them into slavery.
Today we still have, in Asia, where people sell their kids into slavery and sex trade, child labour etc.
While majority of the whites are way past the slavery age, some people still keep bringing it up.
Yes so because their tribe or enemy tribe sold them it made everything OK ? I'm sure if there was no demand there wouldn't have been a supply. You make a good point, the "whites" are past slavery because they got all the benefits of it when they can to improve their own living standards. In Asia there is slavery still because poverty is an ongoing issue. Any educated person would know the impacts of colonialism on the third world countries.
At least we are getting paid money for our resources and not trading our resources for opium....
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X2 thank you for someone else pointing it out.
Lets not forget the one where apparently all Canadians in mining and oil industry are drug addicts anyways
I am aware this is a forum where many different perspectives are welcome and add to the quality of discussion. But sometimes things are best kept to yourself. And if it continues I hope a moderator will intervene somewhere along the way
The facts might be offensive to some, but at least it's the truth. Also i didn't say everybody were drug addicts, i said there was a high percentage.
http://www.oilandgasinquirer.com/article.asp?article=magazine%2F080707%2FMAG2008_L70001.html
http://oilsandstruth.org/alberta-cocaine-easier-buy-pizza
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No i just had to point out that 50 years ago it wasn't better. Sadly 50 years ago racism was something that was quite common so i had to bring out the "race" card. If you want to put it in Canadian terms, then Canadians now are better off than 50 years ago. My posts just state the "facts" of what reality is like, and for most of the people saying that it was better off 50 years ago are probably not immigrants, women, or anything outside the "main society" of those times. The fact that history was like that in the past disgusts me and i'm glad that the world has evolved since then.
No doubt your life greatly improved with the opportunities afforded to you when you immigrated here some 20 years ago and no doubt you are now considerably better off than you were 50 years ago but your experience is not representative of life here. The reality is that you haven't a clue what life was like here 50 years ago. You weren't here and you didn't experience it and thus you are in no position to make judgments on whether it was better or not.
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No doubt your life greatly improved with the opportunities afforded to you when you immigrated here some 20 years ago and no doubt you are now considerably better off than you were 50 years ago but your experience is not representative of life here 50 years back. The reality is that you haven't a clue what life was like here 50 years ago. You weren't here and you didn't experience it and thus you are in no position to make judgments on whether it was better or not.
Yes i admit I never experienced life 50 years ago here. But its a fact that 50 years ago life for most was not as good as they are today....
Nice update:
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/union-fights-influx-of-chinese-miners-in-b-c-court-1.1076651
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That may well be on a global basis, but it is not the case for Canadian society, and it is Canadian society that the original comment applied to.
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Ed, you are a juvenile.
Government doesn't generate revenue.
They collect your money and waste a lot of it. Then throw you a bone to make you wag your tail.
No nothing makes slavery ok, but don't keep bitching that the whites are the only ones at fault for the slave trade.
During the 12 century asian hordes raped and pillaged Europe, took slaves, killed people, raped women.
But I don't keep bringing it up and blaming the mongols for my shitty state of affairs.
Up until the 19th century asian hordes were controlling a good chunk of europe, but I don't keep throwing it in their face.
It doesn't matter any more.
Get a clue!
When people are talking about life here, they mean here. Not in africa, not in asia. In North America and Europe. We don't know, in reality, what life was like in China. We can know that only from books and stories.
Life was better 50 years ago for the majority "here".
The wage inequalities were not as great and opportunities were numerous.
We may have iphones but we don't have freedom and we don't have resources.
Population has doubled in 50 years.
Most people don't understand it, but population growth has brought on most of the problems we face today.
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Life was better 50 years ago for the majority "here".......
....... its a fact that 50 years ago life for most was not as good as they are today....
I think you guys are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.....
First, the answer is very subjective and unless you lived more than 50 years I don't know how you can comment on it.
Technology and medical care are much better today without a doubt. Life stresses are probably greater today than they were 50 years ago however technology has improved our ability to earn a living and feed ourselves. Crime and drug abuse is greater today while the ability to communicate withe each other is ten fold over what it was 50 years ago.
I was around 50 years ago and I believe over all life is better for me today than it was 50 years ago....
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That may well be on a global basis, but it is not the case for Canadian society, and it is Canadian society that the original comment applied to.
Yes I agree with that, but i'm curious what do you mean by Canadian society? Were the immigrants that were here 50 years ago also experiencing the good life, same as the majority that are praising the past? If you mean Canadian society as in the middle class white man (not being racist as this term is used throughout university textbooks), than I agree it was better.
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Ed, you are a juvenile.
Government doesn't generate revenue.
They collect your money and waste a lot of it. Then throw you a bone to make you wag your tail.
No nothing makes slavery ok, but don't keep bitching that the whites are the only ones at fault for the slave trade.
During the 12 century asian hordes raped and pillaged Europe, took slaves, killed people, raped women.
But I don't keep bringing it up and blaming the mongols for my shitty state of affairs.
Up until the 19th century asian hordes were controlling a good chunk of europe, but I don't keep throwing it in their face.
It doesn't matter any more.
Get a clue!
When people are talking about life here, they mean here. Not in africa, not in asia. In North America and Europe. We don't know, in reality, what life was like in China. We can know that only from books and stories.
Life was better 50 years ago for the majority "here".
The wage inequalities were not as great and opportunities were numerous.
We may have iphones but we don't have freedom and we don't have resources.
Population has doubled in 50 years.
Most people don't understand it, but population growth has brought on most of the problems we face today.
You may be old but your knowledge/education definetley is stuck in the past as well! Textbooks today are a lot more educational and contexts have also changed a lot since 50 years ago. Government do generate revenue because they have the manage the land that they have sovereignty over. In some cases where the governments are really bad, for example in Asia or in Africa, people tend to suffer more. It's hard to say that any government is perfect but i'm pretty glad with what we got.
Slavery has been around for ages, but European colonies were the ones that exploited it to the max with consideration of the technology during that period of time. It's hard for you to blame the mongols right now, when their countries is quite under developed and people are mainly living rural lifestyles. But its ok because soon the European economies will crash because they dont have any more slaves or colonies to exploit.
Like i said in my earlier post, if you mean by the majority people (middle class white man) than sure it was probably better. But it sounds pretty selfish to me that you are complaining that things aren't as good now when everybody in Canada (immigrants etc) have improved their life. If you ask an immigrant 50 years ago that lived in Canada, than I'm sure they would say life is better now! Its understandable that you are thinking greedy because now you dont have as big of a chunk of the pie! Kids like pie and even old people do !
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I think you guys are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.....
First, the answer is very subjective and unless you lived more than 50 years I don't know how you can comment on it.
Technology and medical care are much better today without a doubt. Life stresses are probably greater today than they were 50 years ago however technology has improved our ability to earn a living and feed ourselves. Crime and drug abuse is greater today while the ability to communicate withe each other is ten fold over what it was 50 years ago.
I was around 50 years ago and I believe over all life is better for me today than it was 50 years ago....
I agree with this post, this is subjective and relative to the person. If you like nature than 50 years ago was probably better, but if you prefer technology over the environment, life is defenetly better now with the internet, and other technological advancements!
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I agree with this post, this is subjective and relative to the person. If you like nature than 50 years ago was probably better, but if you prefer technology over the environment, life is defenetly better now with the internet, and other technological advancements!
See this is the problem.
Who would ever prefer technology over environment.
I am a tech guy.
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http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Federal+Court+turns+down+union+foreign+worker+injunction+miners/7701375/story.html
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http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Documents+detail+recruitment+fees+paid+under+Temporary+Foreign/7718509/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Documents+detail+recruitment+fees+paid+under+Temporary+Foreign/7718509/story.html)
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Ed, I'm curious why you came to Canada.It's quite obvious you seem to believe white Canadians are akin to the devil as you've made clear in your posts. Did you come for a better life? How can that be when you cheer on Chinese workers and Canadian resources being exploited? Is it OK to drag down workers here to support off shore state owned companies that do the exploitation? Most CANADIANS came here for the freedoms and the ability to live a good life and earn a good living, yet you seem to think eroding those basic tenets is A-OK. I'm just mystified as to how that works. Would you be kind enough to explain that to me and the others that see as I can't quite figure out what you're trying to convey.
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Ed, I'm curious why you came to Canada.It's quite obvious you seem to believe white Canadians are akin to the devil as you've made clear in your posts. Did you come for a better life? How can that be when you cheer on Chinese workers and Canadian resources being exploited? Is it OK to drag down workers here to support off shore state owned companies that do the exploitation? Most CANADIANS came here for the freedoms and the ability to live a good life and earn a good living, yet you seem to think eroding those basic tenets is A-OK. I'm just mystified as to how that works. Would you be kind enough to explain that to me and the others that see as I can't quite figure out what you're trying to convey.
This post is about Canadian - China Trade deal, and not about personal lives therefore I dont find it neccesary for me to explain why I came to Canada. I dont cheer on the fact that Chinese workers are coming to Canada, but its just the sad truth because most of the miners in Canada are expecting to get paid a really high salary. Also a big portion of these miners that are being paid this excess salary end up using it on drugs (i said big portion and not all so learn how to read). Its more of a wake up call to the local workers that if they aren't willing to work then someone else will. Labour Unions are one of the biggest factors in creating an inefficient labour force. It was one thing to fight for basic needs and now its ridiculous that unions are extorting their power to employers. There was a case in the USA recently that a bunch of truck drivers that went on strike and the company pretty much hired new workers so some members of the union lost their jobs. In my opinion, its too bad for those union members.... tough luck! Nobody's fault because they went on strike when they are easily replaceable.
PS. I contribute enough to Canada having a good 43% or so of my income getting taxed! How much taxes do you pay Novabonker?
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This post is about Canadian - China Trade deal, and not about personal lives therefore I dont find it neccesary for me to explain why I came to Canada. I dont cheer on the fact that Chinese workers are coming to Canada, but its just the sad truth because most of the miners in Canada are expecting to get paid a really high salary. Also a big portion of these miners that are being paid this excess salary end up using it on drugs (i said big portion and not all so learn how to read). Its more of a wake up call to the local workers that if they aren't willing to work then someone else will. Labour Unions are one of the biggest factors in creating an inefficient labour force. It was one thing to fight for basic needs and now its ridiculous that unions are extorting their power to employers. There was a case in the USA recently that a bunch of truck drivers that went on strike and the company pretty much hired new workers so some members of the union lost their jobs. In my opinion, its too bad for those union members.... tough luck! Nobody's fault because they went on strike when they are easily replaceable.
PS. I contribute enough to Canada having a good 43% or so of my income getting taxed! How much taxes do you pay Novabonker?
Simply put - you find it fine for yourself to make a good living, but screw the people that actually have a dirty , dangerous job. And erode Canadian standards that many have worked and toiled generations , or in some cases, years to establish by bringing in cheap offshore labour.I think you're not a very good example of a Canadian and don't espouse Canadian values. Unless you work for my accountant or you're CRA agent, my taxes are none of your business.
So - are you working right now or sluffing off on the bosses nickel?
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I thought the whole reasoning behind exploiting our resources is its good for the economy. Not so a few foreign owned companies get rich and some temporary foreign workers make a buck. Good wages for Canadians is good Bc they go out and spend supporting other local businesses. If canadians spend it on drugs. What do Chinese spend on? Gambling? I am partly indocanadian so don't give me good wage I will waste it on curry. :)
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PS. I contribute enough to Canada having a good 43% or so of my income getting taxed! How much taxes do you pay Novabonker?
Maybe you should talk to AF- he's a financial dude and I'm quite sure he can help you ease that tax burden. By using a tax calculator, you're earning over $200,000 a year. You've got enough to live on, but begrudge a hard working person a living wage.
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I think the whole idea behind resource exploitation is that people who live in BC should be exploiting it's resources.
Nobody else, no foreign country, or interest should be dictating how I should use my land.
This BS has gone out of control with all the stupid naftas and fippas.
I can piss in your yard a lot, because at the end of the day I don't have to live there.
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I think the whole idea behind resource exploitation is that people who live in BC should be exploiting it's resources.
Nobody else, no foreign country, or interest should be dictating how I should use my land.
This BS has gone out of control with all the stupid naftas and fippas.
I can piss in your yard a lot, because at the end of the day I don't have to live there.
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/applause.gif)
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I think the whole idea behind resource exploitation is that people who live in BC should be exploiting it's resources.
Nobody else, no foreign country, or interest should be dictating how I should use my land.
This BS has gone out of control with all the stupid naftas and fippas.
I can piss in your yard a lot, because at the end of the day I don't have to live there.
If you really want to feel nausea, look up what you can do on others property with mineral rights. I can come and set up camp and do "exploration" which can be pretty disturbing.
Hmmmmmm-What's Ed's address? ;D
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Maybe you should talk to AF- he's a financial dude and I'm quite sure he can help you ease that tax burden. By using a tax calculator, you're earning over $200,000 a year. You've got enough to live on, but begrudge a hard working person a living wage.
Its OK because i'm fine with paying taxes. Its one of the things that I can do to help the others in Canada that aren't so fortunate. But to tell me that its wrong for immigrant workers to come to Canada because nobody here is willing to work for a competative salary is BS. It's true what adriaticum says, that nobody likes foreign countries exploiting our resources but its all part of how the globalized world works these days. I'm sure nobody was complaining much when we were benefiting from other countries in trade or how the Americans used to take advantage of South America and Canada in trade. It's sad but its just how things work, what comes around goes around. Now the only difference is, China is the rich country now and they are the ones taking advantage (this isn't the threat of REDDAWN and communism, everything is done properly with western rules and laws).
I'm lucky that I live by the water, hopefully coal harbour doesn't mean that there is coal in the harbour so people wont come here and mine for minerals.... :P But at least they are moving away the little airport away from my place to closer to the convention center...
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--I would hope that people are just mixing these words without malice ... the people coming to work at this mine are coming under temp work permits thus will leave when the job is over.
--Immigrants come here to stay and become Canadians.
--Canadian workers also travel... especially in the mining industry to many other parts of the world some with the intent to return to Canada others to be adopted by their new country... we expect our workers to be treated fairly in these other countries.
--We beak off about human rights in China then allow the exploitation of these same workers when they come to Canada...Some say they are better off coming here and have much better working conditions than then do in China... I don't care if they are less exploited here.. they should not be exploited at all in Canada... we should be setting an example to the world and practice what we preach.
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http://www.empr.gov.bc.ca/Titles/MineralTitles/faq/Pages/PrivateProperty.aspx#1
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--We beak off about human rights in China then allow the exploitation of these same workers when they come to Canada...Some say they are better off coming here and have much better working conditions than then do in China... I don't care if they are less exploited here.. they should not be exploited at all in Canada... we should be setting an example to the world and practice what we preach.
I hear this said a lot.... mostly from the labor unions. Could someone provide some factual evidence of how these workers are being "exploited"?
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Its OK because i'm fine with paying taxes. Its one of the things that I can do to help the others in Canada that aren't so fortunate. But to tell me that its wrong for immigrant workers to come to Canada because nobody here is willing to work for a competative salary is BS. It's true what adriaticum says, that nobody likes foreign countries exploiting our resources but its all part of how the globalized world works these days. I'm sure nobody was complaining much when we were benefiting from other countries in trade or how the Americans used to take advantage of South America and Canada in trade. It's sad but its just how things work, what comes around goes around. Now the only difference is, China is the rich country now and they are the ones taking advantage (this isn't the threat of REDDAWN and communism, everything is done properly with western rules and laws).
I'm lucky that I live by the water, hopefully coal harbour doesn't mean that there is coal in the harbour so people wont come here and mine for minerals.... :P But at least they are moving away the little airport away from my place to closer to the convention center...
This one is fairly difficult to understand and explain, but yes, it's wrong.
There are many wrongs with this.
First a foreign company should not be owning anything in BC. But hell, we have sold so much already and people accept that. Unfortunately.
Second, we have shifted our mentality completely and companies do not exist to produce product or service to it's community and for export, but rather the company solely exists to make a profit. That's how half of the world wealth is owned by financial companies and hedge funds that have no clue about the businesses they own and don't give a damn.
I agree nobody is complaining when we exploit other countries resources, but that's mostly because we don't know. We are mostly uneducated the waste our companies are laying on other environments. Also we are used to the good times and we don't care too.
Well I come from a different background and know both sides of the story so my principals may be different then most.
Unfortunately the extremely wealthy are doing this and through marketing making us believe that this globalization thing is a new concept and a good one.
But also in a sales transaction there are two consenting parties. A seller and a buyer. So the seller is to blame too.
This is really a matter of one's beliefs; and this is my belief.
Alwaysfishing, yes they are exploited through low pay, poor living conditions and some have even been threatened. I know of many immigrants coming into the country under the guise of a better life and yet they end up as, labour slaves, sex slaves etc.
Unfortunately for some of the chinese workers even that is better than what they had so they don't complain and we don't hear about it.
Sometimes it takes years before people understand life in a new country and know their rights, privileges and obligations.
Especially if they don't speak the language.
This is something one can't explain to a non-immigrant.
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Alwaysfishing, yes they are exploited through low pay, poor living conditions and some have even been threatened. I know of many immigrants coming into the country under the guise of a better life and yet they end up as, labour slaves, sex slaves etc.
Unfortunately for some of the chinese workers even that is better than what they had so they don't complain and we don't hear about it.
Sometimes it takes years before people understand life in a new country and know their rights, privileges and obligations.
Especially if they don't speak the language.
This is something one can't explain to a non-immigrant.
Not sure if you are talking about the same Chinese workers I am referring to.... Perhaps you could share where you have gotten your information on these Chinese miners? Haven't they just started work here in the last week or so? Isn't it a little early to suggest that they are experiencing poor living conditions? Have they been forced to come to Canada to work here?
The company has been quoted as saying "Workers will be paid between $25 and $40 per hour, with total yearly compensation between $84,000 and $113,000 including pay, benefits, housing and food...... " That seems like a pretty decent living doesn't it?
I also need to question your statement: "I know of many immigrants coming into the country under the guise of a better life and yet they end up as, labour slaves, sex slaves etc." Are you saying you know a lot of immigrants that are working as "slaves"? Have you reported the situation to any Canadian authorities? Last time I checked slavery is against the law in Canada....
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I hear this said a lot.... mostly from the labor unions. Could someone provide some factual evidence of how these workers are being "exploited"?
--I base my perception of exploitation on the companies own statement of fact in applying for the use of temp workers... they indicated that NO qualified Canadians applied... from this I concluded the working conditions and or rates of pay were not similar to other mines in Canada...Or one could choose to believe that all Canadian Miners are working or that no Canadian miners are capable of working in this mine.
--I would hope that information will be forthcoming in the court case...there is however no guarantee that information presented in the court case will be made public.
--I would be OK with a simple requirement to have a bulletin board at the mine site with job posting from other mines in Canada so that these miners could see all opportunities available to them in Canada. I am only asking to be assured that they be given a free choice.
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alwaysfishin, not the chinese workers that haven't arrived here yet, I'm talking about existing people in Alberta and here.
It was on the news a few months ago, I think it was in Fort McMurray or something like that.
Also there is constantly reports of foreign migrants working in the fields here in BC and living in shacks.
If you scratched the surface in some communities you would find interesting things.
There is a huge pressure on all producers to lower prices.
I don't think we really know the value of things these days.
On one hand I feel pitty for the average consumer, and on the other I think they deserve to be ripped off.
It's a conflict :D
--skaha,
-- the case of the chinese mining company is clear. They have monumental population and labour pressures in China and would gladly send anybody that wants to go anywhere where population is not as dense and standard of living better.
this is a clear win/win/win for china, the company and the migrant workers. A Loss for the labour force in BC.
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--I understand the win win win of economic colonialism. I just don't want to see "special work zones" which this is creating where the workers will be vulnerable to abuse. (we have not yet proven abuse has happened just that given the circumstances it is likely to have happened)
--The temp workers I also understand the idea.. Fruit harvest in the Okanagan has gone this route of temp work permits...some get treated well and to the contract given others do not get treated well... It seems we see the same articles every year here of exploitation of these worker's and of no surprise it is the same farmers year after year that complaints surface and they pay the fines as a cost of doing business.
--It is not only an abuse of the workers but a strain on those farmers who pay according to the contract and provide decent accommodation and safety.
--By having this mine under a microscope.... perhaps all these bad things will not happen... that is all I am really asking. Have the mine inspected for safety and adherence to the contract and ensure the intent of the temp worker law is followed. Ensure these workers are informed of their rights and opportunities in Canada.
--One does not have to go very far to find companies that view safety regulations as a burdon... At our local chain food store when it is known an auditor is coming in (their own company safety inspection not a government one) the local manager moved all temp staff to another shift so that only fully trained staff would be questioned.
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--I understand the win win win of economic colonialism. I just don't want to see "special work zones" which this is creating where the workers will be vulnerable to abuse. (we have not yet proven abuse has happened just that given the circumstances it is likely to have happened)
--The temp workers I also understand the idea.. Fruit harvest in the Okanagan has gone this route of temp work permits...some get treated well and to the contract given others do not get treated well... It seems we see the same articles every year here of exploitation of these worker's and of no surprise it is the same farmers year after year that complaints surface and they pay the fines as a cost of doing business.
--It is not only an abuse of the workers but a strain on those farmers who pay according to the contract and provide decent accommodation and safety.
--By having this mine under a microscope.... perhaps all these bad things will not happen... that is all I am really asking. Have the mine inspected for safety and adherence to the contract and ensure the intent of the temp worker law is followed. Ensure these workers are informed of their rights and opportunities in Canada.
--One does not have to go very far to find companies that view safety regulations as a burdon... At our local chain food store when it is known an auditor is coming in (their own company safety inspection not a government one) the local manager moved all temp staff to another shift so that only fully trained staff would be questioned.
I think you are worrying about stuff that you don't need to be worrying about...... The mine is located in BC, Canada where the laws of the country/province apply. Under BC law WCB safety regulations must be adhered to, or WCB can shut the mine down or at the very least the companies premiums would be huge.
All the things you are suggesting could be interpreted as "fear mongering" which is what is being heard from the union movement. I'm not sure of your motivations, however the union movements motivation is clear..... they would like the workers to be unionized so they can collect the union dues.
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http://cupe.ca/health-and-safety/canary-online-20-westray-mine-disaster
There were other stories about it that were not from a union but .......
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Mining is dangerous work. Perhaps in the case of the Chinese workers, they weigh the risk/reward aspect of the job differently than Canadians do.... and that's why Chinese workers have been hired over Canadians.
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--Just to be clear.... I am not concerned if the site is union or non union only that the workers get the protection of Canadian safety and labour laws.
--In some instances non union shops actually have faster resolve through courts that do not restrict settlement amounts etc. In a union shop settlement options are limited by the contract.
--I've worked in forestry most of my life and have only been on a few mining sites... mainly doing reclamation work or inspections.
--It is the culture of the company and its workers not whether it is union or not. I don't like workers being taken advantage of by unions or companies... and am certainly open to criticizing unions when they deserve it... In my view unions can and do become abusive when the workers get lazy and don't participate thus allowing the Union officials to dictate.
--The original topic China Trade deal..... as per usual Government told us it was great but it seems the Devil is in the details ... so they were naive as to the consequences or sold us a line of bull. As this federal government is always telling us how smart they are (and I believe them) I find it difficult be believe they were naive to the consequences.
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--I would hope that people are just mixing these words without malice ... the people coming to work at this mine are coming under temp work permits thus will leave when the job is over.
--Immigrants come here to stay and become Canadians.
--Canadian workers also travel... especially in the mining industry to many other parts of the world some with the intent to return to Canada others to be adopted by their new country... we expect our workers to be treated fairly in these other countries.
--We beak off about human rights in China then allow the exploitation of these same workers when they come to Canada...Some say they are better off coming here and have much better working conditions than then do in China... I don't care if they are less exploited here.. they should not be exploited at all in Canada... we should be setting an example to the world and practice what we preach.
Totally agree with your point, it would just be sad if this whole thing is about "china" and not temp workers in general. Foreign companies have owned some of our companies for many years now and only until recent have issues been escalated.
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--Just to be clear.... I am not concerned if the site is union or non union only that the workers get the protection of Canadian safety and labour laws.
--In some instances non union shops actually have faster resolve through courts that do not restrict settlement amounts etc. In a union shop settlement options are limited by the contract.
--I've worked in forestry most of my life and have only been on a few mining sites... mainly doing reclamation work or inspections.
--It is the culture of the company and its workers not whether it is union or not. I don't like workers being taken advantage of by unions or companies... and am certainly open to criticizing unions when they deserve it... In my view unions can and do become abusive when the workers get lazy and don't participate thus allowing the Union officials to dictate.
--The original topic China Trade deal..... as per usual Government told us it was great but it seems the Devil is in the details ... so they were naive as to the consequences or sold us a line of bull. As this federal government is always telling us how smart they are (and I believe them) I find it difficult be believe they were naive to the consequences.
Unions have definetly changed over the years. I'm sure they were originally intended to protect workers from horrid work conditions but now it's another method of making $$$ off people. Thanks to unions or associations.... there is no hockey for us this year!
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I'm pretty sure China is going to have a lot of union supporters when they get wind of the lousy wages they are getting while watching the mandarins get rich. ;D That new leader is already trying to stop the corruption.
just some of the guff you can get from the net.
http://www.alternet.org/story/154402/chinese_workers_demanding_better_wages,_conditions,_real_union_protections
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Who knows.... maybe the Chinese mine workers in BC will invite the union into that mine. Once a union is collecting their dues from the workers it will probably be the end of the negative press for the mine.
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I'm pretty sure China is going to have a lot of union supporters when they get wind of the lousy wages they are getting while watching the mandarins get rich. ;D That new leader is already trying to stop the corruption.
just some of the guff you can get from the net.
http://www.alternet.org/story/154402/chinese_workers_demanding_better_wages,_conditions,_real_union_protections
Actually in China 90% are "Han" culture whether or not they speak mandarin or cantonese. Unions would never happen in China because there will always be someone there to take the job if workers decided to go on strike. Stopping corruption has been a thing in China for a while now, I'm pretty sure the new leader has been involved in corruption as well. His dad marched with Mao before 1949 (establishment of China) so his family background contributed to his position today. In China the new leader is considered a "princeling" and his friends around him are also "princelings" (son of a high politician that served under Mao).
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But WAIT! There's MORE!
http://www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx?ID=1848402
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But WAIT! There's MORE!
http://www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx?ID=1848402
Funny thing is unions are probably one of the contributing factors of why mining companies want to hire foreign workers. Originally their purpose was to help workers with their jobs, now they are helping their workers lose their jobs.
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Unions would never happen in China because there will always be someone there to take the job if workers decided to go on strike.
That's a ridiculous statement.
I'm sure there was a white guy 100 years ago in the US that said the same thing.
Where ever there is labour and injustice, people will organize in some way.
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That's a ridiculous statement.
I'm sure there was a white guy 100 years ago in the US that said the same thing.
Where ever there is labour and injustice, people will organize in some way.
100 years ago USA didn't have 1.3 billion people and a 700 million work force. Also communism governments also function a little different towards social "organization", usually the numbers get overwhelming.....