Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fly Fishing Cafe => Topic started by: Spawn Sack on August 09, 2013, 06:32:14 PM
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So I've been trying to get good at single hand casting in moving (river) water for a couple years now. Admittedly if I practised/fished more I'd be a lot better than I am. 99% of the time I gear fish on rivers. On lakes I mainly fly fish and, although my back/false casting is far from perfect, I can lob my indicator and leader + fly out there with no real issues.
My problems arise on the river. When I first stared out I never heard of spey casts or roll casts. I would let my fly swing down to the shore, then strip in most of the line, then go through 7-10 false casts to get the line back out. What a waste of time!
Then 2 years ago I took a group (4 hrs) single hand spey class on the Vedder. We learned the snap-t for a direction change to the right, and the double spey for a direction change to the left (plus each cast off non-dominant shoulder for an upstream wind). It was a lot to soak up in 4 hrs but it was fun and informative.
Since that time, when I do get out with my river fly rod (9 foot 8wt) like I did today, I still have the same issues. Mainly getting a proper anchor and d-loop before the roll cast, and from there a decent roll cast. Sometimes my roll cast sails out nicely, and sometimes it goes no-where. I understand the concepts of d-loop, point-p, and anchor. I bought the book "Single Hand Spey Casting" hoping to sort out my issues with the spey casts. I even brought the book with me to the river today, spent hours trying to sort out my casting issues, but still not much luck. Now I'm sure I could pay an instructor $60+ an hour to help me out, but I'm not really interested in that.
I finally said f**k trying to master the snap-t, double spey, along with a few other casts I tried from the book (cicrle-c, etc). I made up my own system that was working fairly well. Curious if anyone has feedback and can offer perhaps a better idea.
So, I let my fly swing down so it's in the dangle-ish (decent amount of line already stripped in), then I roll cast once to bring the fly and sink tip up. Then I'll do a back cast, then anouther 2-3 back casts to get the line shooting in the right direction, once I'm casting across the river again, I let-er go!
The benifets are mainly that it actually WORKS for me and I don't spend a lot of time swearing with my spey casts not working. The downsides are that I need a lot of space upriver as I'm doing kind of a "lasso" cast to get my line re-directed in the air. There is no way I could fish close to someone up river from me or else they would likely get my line wrapped around their head :o Also, if I didn't have space for a back cast I'd be screwed as I suck at the spey casts :o However most of the places I fish have lots of backcast room.
I would like to learn the spey casts properly with a single hand rod but just find it too difficult and I'm not interested in paying for another lesson. From what I have heard it's a fair bit easier to spey cast with a spey (2 handed) rod. I'm currently saving up my $ for a 2 handed set up, but in the mean time I'd still like to single hand fish for coho and pinks, etc this fall.
I'm curious what casts other people use in the river with a single handed rod.
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sounds like it's the fly line.....not you.It's very difficult to spey cast OH WF regular fly line,the taper is totally different from spey taper lines.Get a SH spey line from SA or Wulff Ambush line,and you will see an immediate change,they both work great with the snap T ,double spey casts,which you already know
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Huh...I never really thought it could be the line. I appreciate the advice, ByteMe, but to be honest I don't really want to buy another line as I would need to buy another spool ($75 or so) plus the cost of the line. I suppouse I could remove the existing line from the backing and add a new line to the existing spool.
What I don't really get is...the line on my reel now is aparently good for river fishing for the summer Vedder where I use the rod mainly. The staff, who are pretty much all exclusive fly fishermen, all agreed that yes this is a good line for the type of water you tell us you're fishing.
Sooo...if fishermen don't use spey casts to change direction with this type of line, then how are they changing direction from down strean to accross stream? I more or less just figured out my method on my own after growing tierd of the single/double speys working half the time. The down stream roll cast followed by a few mid-air change of direction back casts works for me...but I figure there's gotta be a better way!
It seems like most of the guys I see fishing around here are either gear fishing or 2-handed spey fishing. I haven't had an opportunity to watch a good single-hander with a sink tip on and see some alternatives to the spey casts.
Another thing I remember is when I took the single hand spey class a couple years ago we all used floating lines with some wool on the end of our leader. A lot easier when everything is up on the surface!! :o Add a sink tip and/or weighted flys and it seems like unless my timing is PERFECT, the cast fails. After a few hours and a bit of shoulder fatiuge it seems I can't pull of a decent spey cast with the single hand rod to save my life. Looking forward to one day getting a lesson with a 2-handed spey rod and hopefully getting into that instead. Love my 4wt single hand rod on still waters, cursing the 8wt on the river ???
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I was going to ask the same question. What kind of line do you have on your reel? Is it a Rio versitip system? The cool thing is that all rods, SH or DH, can be used to spey cast. However, you must have the correct line! If you do have a WF line, then I imagine it will be that much more difficult to master the spey cast.
Have you taken a lesson on how to cast your SH rod (overhead casting)? 7 - 10 false casts is way too many - I usually can get a 70 -90 foot cast with 2 - 3 false casts. What kind of SH rod do you have? Is it a fast action or slow action?
When I complete my swing down river, I strip in line, then just lift the rod tip up to flip the line behind me (or up river). I can then do a short roll cast forward, then begin my first false cast. By the second or third false cast, I'm usually set to shoot out the line. One thing that adds significant distance to you cast is the ability to "double haul". If you can learn how to do that properly, then you will reduce the number of false casts, and increase casting distance.
Good luck!
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I would get another fly line, and purchase another reel spool for your fly reel. The line I would put on the spool I would be spey casting with, would be an ambush type line. The shorter head length approximates what DH spey casters use while skagit casting and you should be able to cast sink tips and weighted flies while doing SH spey casts.
Note: for the 8 wt. rod the Ambush head length is only 20 ft. versus the 37 ft. you are presently using. That will make a world of difference in SH spey casts.
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I was going to ask the same question. What kind of line do you have on your reel? Is it a Rio versitip system? The cool thing is that all rods, SH or DH, can be used to spey cast. However, you must have the correct line! If you do have a WF line, then I imagine it will be that much more difficult to master the spey cast.
Have you taken a lesson on how to cast your SH rod (overhead casting)? 7 - 10 false casts is way too many - I usually can get a 70 -90 foot cast with 2 - 3 false casts. What kind of SH rod do you have? Is it a fast action or slow action?
When I complete my swing down river, I strip in line, then just lift the rod tip up to flip the line behind me (or up river). I can then do a short roll cast forward, then begin my first false cast. By the second or third false cast, I'm usually set to shoot out the line. One thing that adds significant distance to you cast is the ability to "double haul". If you can learn how to do that properly, then you will reduce the number of false casts, and increase casting distance.
Good luck!
I am 99% sure the line on the reel is this one: http://www.rioproducts.com/fly-lines/saltwater/coldwater/outbound/ I believe it is the "6-21724 WF8F/I Clear/Yellow 330 37.5ft 11.4m Flt/1.5 ips 100ft 30.5m 79.95" one. When I bought the line I didn't mention that I would be trying to S/H spey cast it, just the type of water I'd be fishing and the species I'd be going after.
My only real reason for trying to learn the S/H spey casts is to change the direction of my line after swinging it through a run. I should clairify that at first, before I took a lesson, I would strip in most of the line, then proceed to do 7-10 false casts to get my line back out. However, after my lesson where we worked on overhead casting and S/H spey casts I can roll cast half decent and back cast alright. Still gotta learn to double-haul which would help a lot both on the river and lakes.
My rod is a TFO 9ft 8wt. I'm not at home right now so I can't check the action and forget what it is. FFM, you are also right the the WF line is a pain to S/H spey cast! Wasn't too bad in the lesson when we all had our floating lines on and no sink tip. With my WF/8/I it is such a pain...I've even video taped myself and I swear everything looks pretty good...however if the timing is off a hair the cast will fail, and I find it really hard to get the tip of the line to land where it should be to set up the next part of the cast. A little bit too much or not enough energy and it will be off a mile.
Anyway, enough ranting :o FFM, I like how you described your casting, that's pretty much what I figured out works for me. All this S/H spey casting is giving me a nose bleed and seems quite unecessary when there are no obstructions behind. I find with this line I need to strip in, then roll cast to get it up on the surface. Next time I'm out I'll try to next give it a flick upstream, then roll cast and/or backcast instead of starting my backcasting from downstream and doing a mid-air cowboy lasso cast (!) I'm sure only a matter of time before I wrap the line around my head (or the person upstream of me) trying to pull this off, lol!
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I would get another fly line, and purchase another reel spool for your fly reel. The line I would put on the spool I would be spey casting with, would be an ambush type line. The shorter head length approximates what DH spey casters use while skagit casting and you should be able to cast sink tips and weighted flies while doing SH spey casts.
I probably should but...I'm thinking of just saving up my beans for a true spey rod + reel etc. I've wanted to get into it for years just never had the time or $ to research what I want/need and make the leap. Aside from the fact that it looks like a blast, I think it would be a lot easier on my right shoulder injury from years back which tends to act up from time to time, and gets aggrevated by a day spend with the S/H 8wt and sinking line + weighted flys. From what I have heard the 2 handed rod spreads the work load out a lot more and is much less tiring. My dream is to hook and land a monster steelhead on an intruder I tied myself :D I've hooked a fair amount on gear and roe etc, but I think it's time to try something new. Everytime I see someone 2/H spey fishing I watch in awe and jealousy...
Anyway guys thanks for the tips! Awesome bunch as always. Had wayyyy too much coffee here at work and am getting far off topic :o
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Spawn Sack...........it's the line.A Rio Outbound you are using is meant for OH casting,as dennyman said and I mentioned,try the Wulff Ambush,they are heavy,short heads with running line designed for single hand spey casting,a simple snap T and you will launch it across the river,that is the hottest line across the border for SH rods and switch rods right now.Check out the Wulff website for more info and google up some vids on the Ambush line
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I can't believe all this time I was using line poorly suited for SH spey casting!! 2 years ago when I bought the line I never even THOUGHT to mention to the staff that I would be spey casting with the line. I seriously spent 2 full days on the river this week working river left and right trying to sort out my single and double spey casts, snap-t, etc, video taping myself and looking for faults in slow-mo even :o Not to mention all the other frustrating days I've spent on the river since I bought the line. Oh well, not much I can do abouy it now except laugh about it ???
I'll price out a second spool and the proper line. Im guessimg the line + backing + spool + a few tips will set me back a good $200 or so. As Flyfishin Magician pointed out a change of directuon cast can be accomplished with an upstream flip and a roll cast and/or back xaat. I may just make due with this line and not spey cast with it and put the $ towards a 2handed spey s
Any reason why a 2 handed setup would be bad for fall Vedder fishing? Im guessing the SH rod is more stealthy and better for short casts.
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Any reason why a 2 handed setup would be bad for fall Vedder fishing? Im guessing the SH rod is more stealthy and better for short casts.
The most common method for coho is to cast and do a short strip in retrieve. This can be difficult with 2 handed rods as they are more meant for swinging. It is doable, just not ideal.
Getting back to over hand casting... Definitely should not be doing any more than 3 false casts at most. Many times I will do one back cast and shoot 60+ feet of line on the next forward stroke (with double haul casting). The more times you whip it back and forth in the air, the more momentum you lose. 3 or less false casts will keep your rod heavily loaded and allow for a really good shoot. Most of your distance should be on the shoot regardless of what you are doing rather than working your line out in the air.
Your line should be more than perfect for roll casting as well. Most of the island flows I fish with my 6 wt have 0 back cast room and all I do is roll cast or "jump cast." If you get your timing down it should be no problem to hit 50-60 feet even with heavish flies. I like to have it so that just the very end of my fly line is touching the water for a load just as I'm shooting forward. Make sure you sweep back, lift up and pause for a second to load the rod, I generally shoot a lot of line on roll casts much like I would casting overhead, you shouldn't need multiple casts to get good distance. I'll see if any of my coho fishing videos show some roll casting.
Good luck, the more you practice the better you get!
Dan
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The outbound is probably not the problem, they are a shooting head, have a similar taper to a scandi line and spey cast very well on a single hander or switch. The fact that his line is a slow sink might be the problem and poor technique, it really shouldn't be that hard to reposition your line from the dangle to begin casting across stream again, you don't need to be a single hand spey ninja. Your money would be better spent getting a lesson than buying a different line imho. If I am up your way I would be happy to give you a few pointers.
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Hmmm...interesting you think the line should be fine. I'm a novice river flyfisher so I dont really know, however until hearing some opinions in this thread it never even occured to me that the line MAY be the issue. I would love to try out this Ambush line, but I dont think im going to, at least right now, buy new spool and the line. I can catch fish with the current line I just need to keep in mind that I can not spey cast it worth a damn. Perhaps down the road Ill buy an extra spool and Ambush line.
As far as another lesson goes I think ill hold off for now. Ive already had 2. One intro lesson on grass where the focus was mainly on backcasting and shooting line, and one on the water for single hand spey.
One thing I do notice is in the SH spey lesson I had a WF floating line and I coild do the casys fairly well. Then I lost that line on a hot spring I couldnt turn. It took me into my backing and the backing broke!! I dont know of it had an abrasion/weak point or what. Anyway so I replaced it with the Rio WF/8/I line. I am interested yo see whay the staff have to say where i bought it. Like I said i never told them that I was planning to spey cast with it. I would like to hand my rod and to a good SH spey caster and see if they can SH well with it. If yes then clearly it's doable and more me than the line. If they struggled, like me, per then perhaps ab ambush style line is what i should have bought in the first place.
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Judging by WF/8/I you state above you have a the full intermediate outbound line. This means that the head and the running line all sink, as such its not going to be as easy to spey cast on a single hand rod as a floating outbound which spey casts very nicely, especially as a you are a beginner. The line you have is a good choice for stripping for Coho and Pinks etc so if that is what you are going to be doing mostly I'd stick with it and work on your o/h casting. Good luck
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The line I have it this one: http://www.rioproducts.com/fly-lines/saltwater/coldwater/outbound/ It's the "WF8F/I Clear/Yellow 330 37.5ft 11.4m Flt/1.5 ips 100ft 30.5m 79.95
Something occured to me last night. My line goes clear and thick until it tapers and blends into yellow. I'm thinking the clear portion of the line is the shooting head and is not really meant to be running through the eyelets during roll casts and it has a lot of friction. No? I just remember that to get the tip of my fly line to land in the right spot to create a good anchor for the roll cast and (sometimes) subsequent backcast, I would have to strip in about to the point whereI was about 1 foot short of my yellow (shooting) line. In other words, all the yellow line is in loops in my left hand, and when I go to roll cast then back cast I have about 10 feet (9 foot rod + one extra foot) of the clear line past that is not being casted.
Anyway, my speculation is that the clear line/shooting head is not sliding through the rod guides very well + the weight of the "unused" head is not helping the cast out. My thought is that if, say, the head were 10 feet shorter like the ambush line, then all of the head would be past the rod tip when I went to roll cast + backcast. Then, when I went to release the stripped in line it would be shooting line heading through the rod guides, not 1/3 of my shooting head like with my current line.
I think that makes sense. Talking out my a** really ::) Am I onto something?
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What kind of SH rod do you have? Is it a fast action or slow action?
Just checked my rod. It actually doesn't specify the action :o It's a TFO 8wt 9ft rod. It is entry level but wasn't super cheap. $150 rings a bell.
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U have 66ft of running line with 37ft of sinking line,which would make it nearly impossible to spey cast,as u will never lift that much sinking line out to form your D-loop. I am only running 10ft of sink tip on both my spey and switch rods.Your line would still be a challenge to cast even for an experienced caster..........the Good Lord help you if there is any wind blowing upstream,I now understand why u are making 7 false cast to load the rod........right rod pal,wrong line for what you want
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Grrrreeeeat...on the one hand not the end of the world as I can just use it places where I can get a good backcast. I definitley will not be bothering to practice my SH spey casts with it any more! The downside is I've been using this line for about 2 years and tying to SH spey it a lot of the time - with great frustration! I actually didn't use it at all for about 8 months and just gear fished as I was getting so cheesed off with my crappy SH spey progress.
For now I'm just going to use the line I have and save my $ for a 2 handed spey set up. Down the road if I decide I want to get back into SH spey casting I'll buy a suitable line for it. Really regretting that I never mentioned to the staff when I bought the current line that I'd be using it for SH spey casting. Oh well live and learn... :o
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Where are you located SS ?
I have all 3 setups - single, switch and spey
if your close-ish to me we could possibly meet up and I could give you some pointers and some beginner two handed lessons to help the learning curve. At the very least I can teach you how to double haul, learning this will make your life way easier whether it be on rivers or lakes especially casting a sinking line.
moving water would obviously be beneficial
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HOOK, sorry I forgot tp reply to this earlier. Difficult on this site to find a posting burried back several pages unless it's a "new reply." Would be nice if there was a "my postings" option that you could click on instead of clicking back 10 pages to find an old post. Am I missing something???
Anyway, I'm in Chilliwack. I've been out a few times with the S/H rod and have done alright and got into lots of pinks. Generally I just strip in to where I can comfortably roll cast the line, then lift the tip high and roll cast. If I want to shoot line I'll try to do a back cast before the fly hits the water on the roll cast. Generally I get the fly out there although it's not always pretty. I bought a stripping bucket from Sea Run and although it's not pretty (actually it's downright embarassing) it has helped a lot with my shooting as I always found it hard to manage my loops and get them to shot out smoothly. Now I just use my thumb and index finger as an extra eyelet to keep the line from wrapping around my reel when it's coming out of the basket. Definitely function over fashion!
None of my buddies fly fish - all gear heads! I try to watch other guys on the river who I can tell are good flyfishermen and see what I can pick up. In the past I've hooked lots of pinks and some springs and chum. Never hooked a coho on the fly as I don't think my skills are good enough to fool the finicky buggers! Never really got into steelheading with the SH rod as throwing heavy sink tips all day aggrevates an old shoulder injury in a hurry so it's just not doable. However I recently got a spey rod for my bday so I'm stoked to learn to use it and try swinging some flies for steelhead this winter.
I spent a bit of time on grass trying to double haul but could not get it. Still keen to learn as it would also help me out on lakes casting into the wind etc. I found trying to teach myself that I was so focused on hauling that I lost track of my backcasting and the whole shabang just went to s**t. Generally I can cast as far as I need to without hauling but I hear it's less tiring to haul your line so I'd still like to learn.
Gimmie a shout at kcp@alumni.sfu.ca I'm out on the Vedder as often as I can right now.
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The guys and I will be out on the 21st with spey rods and gear rods hunting for fish. shoot me an email with your cell number and I'll text you the night before and let you know what area we will be. when you head down I will do my best to help you out with the double hauling thing, I would bet your over thinking it. once you do it correct a few times it becomes second nature. I could also give you some help with beginning spey stuff seeing as I will have my spey setup there with me.
I will be out there tomorrow as well with the spey and gear rods
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Cool thanks! Unfortunately I have to work that day. I work shift work which sucks at times, however I get 4 or 5 days off in a row on my rest days so by and large it works out well. The 21st is a no go for me however I am off this coming Saturday to the following Wednesday and will be on the Vedder at least 3 of those days. Better if it rains! Less people! I often leave my fly rod in the car if the spot I want to fish is busy as I don't feel comfortable fly casting with others so close. Float rod no problem.
I don't really feel comfortable learning to spey fish right now with all the people on the river. I'd like l-o-t-s of space! The single hand rod however I'd love some pointers esp to double haul. Also with the spey rod I don't have a reel yet so I need a bit of time to research and buy one. My plan is to wait until the fishing cools off then get out with the spey rod, play around with it, and probably take a lesson. I have heard Willie Holmes' 2 day spey school, although not cheap (200ish) is very good. I had a group S/H spey lesson 4hrs with Willie and though he was an AWESOME instructor.
Anywho fire me off an email (I don't have yours) and I'll hook up with you/you guys one of these days on the river.
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I'm a bit confused about the original question. You said you need help with single hand question and then went into a discussion on Spey casting. Learning to read water and how your fly acts in it is the secret. The choice of line for the water and the species you are after is almost always the biggest decision. Current speed, depth of water and the species involved all change the parameters.
An angler with a single handed rod of about 9 feet in length needs to know many different casts, including a Spey cast. The secret is controlling the line on the water. And, then there is the difference in species. Salmon and steelhead in a river react differently than feeding trout in a stream. And, it depends on what the trout are feeding on. The whole subject is so complex that it has been written about in hundreds (thousands?) of books. It is easier to go out with an expert and tune you up with the few secrets you need to know to achieve regular success.
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Should make sense if you read the whole thread. Basicially I was having issues becoming adept at single hand spey casts (single + double spey, snap-t, circle-c, etc). It turns out that my line is not really meant for such casts. I agree as I have a real bugger of a time S/H spey casting it! What I learned for some of the guys is often such casts are not really necessary and a simple upsteam flip and/or roll cast before the back cast is really all you need in most situations. Now that's all I really do unless I can't get a backcast off due to obstacles behind. It's led to a much more enjoyable experience with the S/H rod.
Opps actually you are right in the end of the thread HOOK mentioned he could give me some two-handed spey tips. I mentioned in another discussion that I got a two handed spey rod for my birthday a few days ago and he was just offering to help me out with that in addition to the S/H rod issues I was having. Sorry about that :o However I don't have a reel yet for the spey rod so it'll be a bit before I take it out on the river.
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sounds like it's the fly line.....not you.It's very difficult to spey cast OH WF regular fly line,the taper is totally different from spey taper lines.Get a SH spey line from SA or Wulff Ambush line,and you will see an immediate change,they both work great with the snap T ,double spey casts,which you already know
never had this problem with over 30 years of spey casting & roll casting single handed. These casts were actually developed with double taper lines. Most spey lines are variants of a single taper with a running or shooting line behind so the line can be shot for some distance.
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You need to measure the clear tip. The one source I checked lists the sinking portion as 15 feet - which should be doable for Double spey and snap Ts - even a 37 foot intermediate can be accommodate both casts.
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Could it be that you are expecting too much from this one set up?? Maybe your fly rod is too soft for the water and line that you are fishing. I think that you should concentrate on fishing for coho in slower water with quick retrieve. Then you won't have the drag on your line and won't have to worry about spey casting to recover your line's positioning. I live in Chilliwack and fish for both springs and coho. I target springs with my Switch rod whereby I do more "nymph style fishing" rather than swing due to the fact that springs love deep holes and slicks more than tailouts. Coho love 'frog water'. They also love dancing waters for protection. This is where 'nymph style fishing' is effective. Think about using your 8wt for coho. I know that money dictates what one has to use, but I would encourage you to consider two different setups for two different environments and species on the river. Just a thought.
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Without on stream explaining it's almost impossible to describe. There are so many variables that all affect the end result and what you want to achieve. I still say getting as close as possible to the fish is the best solution. Then you have better control over the line. And, matching the correct line to the water in front of you and the species you are fishing for is very important. Are you talking about feeding trout or resting salmon or steelhead. They all react differently and hold in different places. Even the different species of salmon hold in different places.
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Can anyone reccomend a good shop (in lower mainland) to buy Wulff Ambush fly line? I inquired about it at Fred's Chiliwack the other day and got blank stares. I would like to try one of these short head lines designed for single hand spey casts. I'm going to Sea Run next week, not sure if they carry this brand.
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I checked for Canadian dealers on their website and I didn't come up with any located within BC
Your best bet would be to order one online
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I think Michael&Young carries them
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Thanks HOOK and Byteme. I'll call M&Y and see if they carry Wulff line. I don't feel comfortable ordering the line online as I'm not super knowledgable on fly lines and want to make sure I get the best line for my rod. I know I want a short head (20ft ish) designed for s/h spey casts. However I know with some lines it's advisable to go up a line weight, etc. I would prefer to buy this line from a shop with knowledgable staff like M&Y.
If no luck finding a lower mainland dealer I'll try Fred's and see if a similar line is made by Rio, S/A, etc.
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What rod are you using this line with ?
If you go onto the Royal Wulff website they have a pretty good explanation of how to choose the right line weight for intended purpose. I'm ordering an 8wt Ambush at 290 grains for my 4/5 switch rod. I think if your using it on a single hander it matches up exact because that is what type of rod they are designed for
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It's an 8wt, 9 foot TFO "Lefty Kreh" edition. I forget the exact action specs if they are printed on the blank at all.
Somehow the reel I had on the rod vansihed and I have not ben able to find it >:( Not sure if I left it on the roof of my car or what. Very odd. Luckily it was a cheap Kamloops reel. I'm probably going to buy an Echo Ion as a replacement as I'm not looking to drop a huge amount of money on this set up I only use here and there. I think I'd like this W/A short head line for S/H spey casts instead on the Rio outbound clear intermediate (37 foot head I think) I had on the old reel.
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Thank the lord I just read this thread and realized that people spey with single handers. I was out there all day today and must have hit myself in the head 10 times due to the downstream wind and fishing river left all day. :( Felt and looked like an idiot!
hopefully my line will be alright for spey? I am using a full floating rio gold line with 12 foot sink tips (WF8F)
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Just a heads up on single hand spey casting - it's not easy! I only got into two handed spey casting this winter, and I'm already about as good as I am with the s/h rod, and I've been doing that for a couple years. In other words, IMO spey casts ar a lot easier with two hands than one.
That being said, if you already know how to do spey casts in an upstream and down stream wind, then it should not be a huge problem to transition to a s/h rod.
From my experience trying to s/h spey with a typical WFF line (mean more for overhead casts) is not easy. It seems that you end up stripping a fair bit of the thicker head past the rod tip, then when you go to shoot line after the change of direction cast, it does not shoot well until you get into the thin shooting line (duh). What I found worked for me was to do my change of direction cast, say a circle-c, then roll cast but do NOT try and shoot line as not much is going to shoot on this roll cast with part of the head still on your reel. I would let this inital roll cast unfurl but NOT hit the water. When it straightened out in the air I would do a back cast, shoot a bit of line, another backcast (or two) and once I was into my shooting line let-er fly! It would help if I knew how to double-haul, but I haven't learned that yet :o
It seems this would be easier with a shorter head (20 feet or so compared to the 37 feet on my rio outbound line) as you could strip the tip up to the head (not into the guides), change of direction cast, then on your roll casts let go and you are right into the shooting line and should get some decent distance.
Keep in mind I have not actually tried an Wulff Ambush style spey line on my s/h rod so I am pretty much talking out my a** ;) However with the short head on my spey rod I find after my roll cast the stripped in line SOARS.
If you have never tried spey casting I would HIGHLY reccomend a lesson. William Holmes does a s/h spey group class on the river (Vedder) for cheap like $50. Talk to Fred's or your local tackle shop.
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If your trying to do single hand spey casts with a regular weight forward line you'll find you need about 30' of the line out to properly load the rod. You will also need to learn to do a haul just as your coming forward to help the line heavily load the rod if you want decent distance, especially if you have a sink tip. Only cast I ever get working well is a single spey which is a touch/go cast because this type of cast is designed more for a regular tapered line as opposed to a thick forward heavy shooting head like the Ambush or skagit style line systems
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HOOK, I did some surfing around on W/A's website and think this would be the right line for my rod. Whadayathink? TT-8-F with a 20 foot head and 290 grain line.
http://royalwulff.com/products/ambush-fly-line/
EDIT: I gave M&Y in Surrey a call and they reccomended a slightly different line: The Ambush "neutralizer" with a 300 grain 24 foot head in 8wt for my 9 foot rod.
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The collective knowledge at M&Y is probably correct.
honestly its all personal preference.
just like how I fish skagit heads on the lighter side of a rods grain window. I know many guys fish them on the heavier side because it makes tossing half chicken flies easier
If that is the line specs you are looking for then I would say an 8wt (290gr) should pair up with your 8wt rod without issue. The Ambush "neutralizer" line has an intermediate sinking head portion. If your after a floating line then I wouldn't buy that
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Thanks HOOK. As far as I'm aware if you have an intermediate sinking head you do not add another sink tip to that. At least that's what I was told when I bought my Rio outbound line in clear intermediate.
With this Ambush line I want to be able to add/remove different sink tips as I see fit, not be confined to just the sink rate of the clear intermediate. So the neutralizer is probably not the best choice.
I emailed WA for clairification.