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Author Topic: Get your facts straight?  (Read 1344128 times)

chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1860 on: December 01, 2015, 01:34:09 PM »

I wonder what we would find at the end of the sewer pipe leading from Chilliwack's treatment plant in the Fraser River?
It will be not good either, not sure how the treatment they have in place at the plant helps.

ClayoquotKid

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1861 on: December 01, 2015, 02:25:15 PM »

I expect the same Banx. Now we have something in common. I think it would be very interesting to see just what would happen if a sport fishing salmon farmer actually did come on here to discuss and share ideas.  :)

I'm a sport-fishing salmon farmer.  ::)

Not sure I'm ready to dive in yet though.
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1862 on: December 01, 2015, 02:34:44 PM »

Welcome to FWR CK!  I think you will find us a bit less confrontational than that other site, lol!
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1863 on: December 01, 2015, 02:57:16 PM »

I'm a sport-fishing salmon farmer.  ::)

Not sure I'm ready to dive in yet though.
Please do, the PAP Gang are harmless. ;D

ClayoquotKid

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1864 on: December 01, 2015, 03:01:50 PM »

Welcome to FWR CK!  I think you will find us a bit less confrontational than that other site, lol!

Ah yes, you mean the one where I was banned by the "moderators" for a month for having a good old knock-down-drag-out battle with a prolific anonymous antagonist?

I've been watching this one for quite a while, just decided I'd pop in and use my account for the first time after seeing that last post...

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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1865 on: December 01, 2015, 03:29:38 PM »

Ah yes, you mean the one where I was banned by the "moderators" for a month for having a good old knock-down-drag-out battle with a prolific anonymous antagonist?

I've been watching this one for quite a while, just decided I'd pop in and use my account for the first time after seeing that last post...

Yeah, that one ;)  I'm surprised I wasn't banned for dissing the anonymous antagonist as well. Welcome aboard; I think even the anti's on here will appreciate your knowledge of salmon farming in BC.
They will definitely learn a lot but a few (but certainly not all if you research back a few pages) have their minds made up and nothing short of Almo going to work in the PR department for Marine Harvest will change their minds ::)
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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1866 on: December 01, 2015, 04:18:54 PM »

I'm a sport-fishing salmon farmer.  ::)

Not sure I'm ready to dive in yet though.
Welcome CK. I am sure your hands on experience will add to the discussion and shared ideas. :)
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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1867 on: December 01, 2015, 06:06:47 PM »

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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1868 on: December 01, 2015, 07:18:53 PM »

Quote from: banx link=topic=32635.m



since you edited a post after i replied.....with regards to you 'actually knowing me' it's unlikely. 
[/quote

 Well I messed this post up a bit. Howerever can you explain to me where I said I "actually" know you Banx?  I sure would like to clear this one up. :) atm it seems that you have turned a shared thought into a fact.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 08:13:55 PM by Fisherbob »
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1869 on: December 01, 2015, 08:04:28 PM »

Yes, nice stuff on the ocean bottom under the pens. ::) https://youtu.be/4QKwEsaACsk

The goo in this old video of organic waste looks a lot like the stuff Chilliwack farmers spread by the ton on local fields to fertilize the crops we all eat, ie broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts and the crop you sell in summer months Chris, genetically modified corn ;D

I suggest what is sprayed on our fields, locally and in other agricultural areas, contains far more left over antibiotics, pesticides (from bovine, avian and porcine diets), and other pharmaceuticals including growth hormones, than all the salmon farms combined in BC waters.  And yet the general public is fine with this practice ::)

If I am wrong someone please educate me.
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1870 on: December 01, 2015, 11:22:26 PM »

Wille Mitchell is an avid fisherman and like me, wants to see the environment protected so that the wild stocks have a chance to live on for generations. Kuterra farm is a great idea,takes the pressure off wild fish in a sustainable manner .But clearly your inference that the run of river project is paying for the fish farm ?????
 Surely the capital cost is paid off over years of the profits from the product.

Well, it seems like making inferences and assumptions is kind of becoming a game here so I thought I would join in the fun.

The inference made by fish farm critics is that those that do not subscribe to their views on this must have financial interests in the BC fish farm industry and/or do not love wild salmon.  Kind of a lame argument.  Like Willie Mitchell, I am also is an avid fisherman who wants to see the environment protected so that the wild stocks have a chance to live on for generations.  The difference is that I do not buy into these theories and correlations that apparently prove devastation by fish farms here in BC.  Now Willie can skate the pants off of me on the ice and fire the puck much harder than I could ever do; however, with this issue feel very comfortable expressing my opinions and backing them up….and I have never spent one day working for the BC aquaculture industry.

My main criticism with opponents of fish farms is not their desire to have closed containment a reality; instead it is these theories and correlations they bring up which apparently prove that salmon farming how it is done now in BC is devastating wild salmon.  For instance, let’s take the most prolific correlation fish farm opponents use which apparently show that Fraser Sockeye productivity started to decline as salmon farming in BC became more prominent after the early 90s.  Well, if that’s the case then another correlation could be made to show that since the Alaskan Salmon hatchery program (i.e. salmon ranching) began to increase even more in the early 90s Fraser Sockeye productivity began to decrease throughout the 90s and the last decade.  Instead, the billions of ranched salmon released annually by multiple countries in the North Pacific are viewed as a great example by many anti-fish farm activists as a shining example of good fisheries management.  When Fraser Sockeye returns do not come in at the forecasted 50p level the fingers automatically get pointed at fish farming, but when returns are average or above then it is called an anomaly.  It’s just not sea lice, but the way many fish farm critics talk about viruses and diseases - most of it is either exaggerated or not based on facts.

Lastly, in my opinion, many fish farm critics have a severe lack of knowledge of the wild salmon they profess to want to save.  To me that would be sort of important.  If people like Alexandra Morton, Don Staniford, D.C. Reid, Bob Chamberlain, and David Suzuki are going to start professing a love for Fraser Sockeye then they should start understanding some biology about them first.  For instance, a photo of a “Chinook Salmon” got posted on the Salmon Are Sacred Facebook page.  The poster not only called it a Chinook Salmon, but blamed the external wounds on the fish on salmon farms (surprise surprise).  Well, as it was correctly pointed out, the fish was actually a Sockeye and those wounds on the carcass were likely the result of a predator.  One would think that those dedicated to wild salmon would welcome this rather obvious correction and embrace fair comment, but instead the post was deleted.  This leads me to my last criticism of fish farm opponents: They accused the last Federal government of muzzling scientists, but they seem to be also muzzling the message themselves.  So much for transparency when they do not practice it themselves.
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salmonrook

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1871 on: December 02, 2015, 12:54:21 AM »

The goo in this old video of organic waste looks a lot like the stuff Chilliwack farmers spread by the ton on local fields to fertilize the crops we all eat, ie broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts and the crop you sell in summer months Chris, genetically modified corn ;D

I suggest what is sprayed on our fields, locally and in other agricultural areas, contains far more left over antibiotics, pesticides (from bovine, avian and porcine diets), and other pharmaceuticals including growth hormones, than all the salmon farms combined in BC waters.  And yet the general public is fine with this practice ::)

If I am wrong someone please educate me.
The difference being that manure that is spread is allowed to decompose and it would benefit the plants that are grown in it.
 The effluent under the farms is in effect waste left there ,in the hopes of the farm to rot or dissipate, why would anyone want this to be left behind.
 It seems ridiculous that we have strict rules about' leave no trace 'camping,hiking, backcountry recreation,yet we let these multinational companies leave this muck behind by the tonne  !
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 01:05:10 AM by salmonrook »
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salmonrook

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1872 on: December 02, 2015, 01:04:00 AM »

Great post Banx.
 Some great info there about sea lice and its effect on salmon in general,farmed and wild.
I especially think the info on juvenile salmon is most important .
 
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banx

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1873 on: December 02, 2015, 07:02:23 AM »

[quote author=banx link=topic=32635.m



since you edited a post after i replied.....with regards to you 'actually knowing me' it's unlikely. 
 
 Well I messed this post up a bit. Howerever can you explain to me where I said I "actually" know you Banx?  I sure would like to clear this one up. :) atm it seems that you have turned a shared thought into a fact.

you said, what if you knew me....I said I don't actually think you do.  and that it wouldn't be awkward. I probably could have worded it better and dropped the quotations around actually.

Well, it seems like making inferences and assumptions is kind of becoming a game here so I thought I would join in the fun.

The inference made by fish farm critics is that those that do not subscribe to their views on this must have financial interests in the BC fish farm industry and/or do not love wild salmon.  Kind of a lame argument.  Like Willie Mitchell, I am also is an avid fisherman who wants to see the environment protected so that the wild stocks have a chance to live on for generations.  The difference is that I do not buy into these theories and correlations that apparently prove devastation by fish farms here in BC.  Now Willie can skate the pants off of me on the ice and fire the puck much harder than I could ever do; however, with this issue feel very comfortable expressing my opinions and backing them up….and I have never spent one day working for the BC aquaculture industry.

My main criticism with opponents of fish farms is not their desire to have closed containment a reality; instead it is these theories and correlations they bring up which apparently prove that salmon farming how it is done now in BC is devastating wild salmon.  For instance, let’s take the most prolific correlation fish farm opponents use which apparently show that Fraser Sockeye productivity started to decline as salmon farming in BC became more prominent after the early 90s.  Well, if that’s the case then another correlation could be made to show that since the Alaskan Salmon hatchery program (i.e. salmon ranching) began to increase even more in the early 90s Fraser Sockeye productivity began to decrease throughout the 90s and the last decade.  Instead, the billions of ranched salmon released annually by multiple countries in the North Pacific are viewed as a great example by many anti-fish farm activists as a shining example of good fisheries management.  When Fraser Sockeye returns do not come in at the forecasted 50p level the fingers automatically get pointed at fish farming, but when returns are average or above then it is called an anomaly.  It’s just not sea lice, but the way many fish farm critics talk about viruses and diseases - most of it is either exaggerated or not based on facts.

Lastly, in my opinion, many fish farm critics have a severe lack of knowledge of the wild salmon they profess to want to save.  To me that would be sort of important.  If people like Alexandra Morton, Don Staniford, D.C. Reid, Bob Chamberlain, and David Suzuki are going to start professing a love for Fraser Sockeye then they should start understanding some biology about them first.  For instance, a photo of a “Chinook Salmon” got posted on the Salmon Are Sacred Facebook page.  The poster not only called it a Chinook Salmon, but blamed the external wounds on the fish on salmon farms (surprise surprise).  Well, as it was correctly pointed out, the fish was actually a Sockeye and those wounds on the carcass were likely the result of a predator.  One would think that those dedicated to wild salmon would welcome this rather obvious correction and embrace fair comment, but instead the post was deleted.  This leads me to my last criticism of fish farm opponents: They accused the last Federal government of muzzling scientists, but they seem to be also muzzling the message themselves.  So much for transparency when they do not practice it themselves.



well sir, you are correct on most points again. as for "not caring about wild salmon" I was just being a dick to bob.... (my apologies) the fact that BC farms are heavily regulated, monitored and likely have a ton of employees who care is great. it is.

I think there is an inherent difference between devastating, and just a bad idea...... also money allows people to do things they might not generally agree with.

Like we discussed earlier, there's a ton of stuff out there that is effecting salmon returns a lot more than farms.  lots more.  But they are generally things that we can't really control. Heavy industrialization, loss of habitat, ocean conditions, etc. Eventually, these things gotta come out of the water. they do, and they should. I don't think the gamble is worth it. like, is the juice worth the squeeze?

your also right (damnit  ;) ) about the knowledge part, maybe they should read the cohen report.  i'm sure suzuki could bust it off on a few of his chartered flights to the climate change conferences he goes to.

I don't know how you mistake a chinook with a sockeye. maybe chinook and coho. but that's pretty bad.



Great post Banx.
 Some great info there about sea lice and its effect on salmon in general,farmed and wild.
I especially think the info on juvenile salmon is most important .
 


thanks.
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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1874 on: December 02, 2015, 07:33:47 AM »

Thank you for clearing that up Banx. I appreciate that. :)
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