Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: roeman on September 23, 2009, 06:38:18 PM
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Never put alot of thought into the topics complaining about FN actions..
That has changed drastically.
Out on the river last night and witnessed a 22' to 24' aluminum skift type boat used to transport the large
blue bins they use to carry the fish, on board two of lovely land loving creatures throwing out pinks while floating down the river.
Watched for at least five minutes, and they never stopped throwing, imagine how many fish that would be and that is
just what we saw.
Never thought I could say this about another person, but if I saw one of the bastards drowning I don't think I would even
give them a second look.
I know it is a roe fishery, but do they need to throw out the fish. I guess they are not that hungry, all you here from them is
how poor the sockeye run was and the their people will be struggling through the winter.. Eat the pinks cupcakes heads...
Yes.. I phoned in a report. As if they don't already know that they throw them out...
This is the first time I have ever witnessed first hand something so wastefull.
Sure has changed the way I feel about FN
Hope they choke on the sockeye bones..
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saw that 2 years ago on the last pink run on the lower fraser. kept the sockeyes but basically threw away the pinks ....tons floating belly up down river. And when all their caught sockeye didn't sell along the roadside they would just chuck the dead fish in the bush. not one or two but 50-60 at a time. And they wonder why theres no respect for them. Just claim hardship. the goverment of canada will help you every time. Sorry guys but this kind of waste does piss me off every time i see it. :-[
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and they tell is everyone is even in canada ::)
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It is a total waste.
About 3 Pink cycles ago I almost got into a fight with a bunch of natives at Island 22 when I saw them throwing out DEAD male Pinks from there bins. All the females where being slit open, eggs taken out and then tossed. Sickening. From what we saw this year they now just pick the males out of the net as they take them in. The end result is the same, those fish are dead.
With low Sockeye numbers you'd think they might want to keep some Pinks for their food. Yeah right. Three clients of mine in Surrey and Langley were offered Sockeye to buy for 12.00/fish a month ago.
At the end of the day it's all about the almighty dollar and at the expense of fish.
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What do they want with the roe ???
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it gets sold to pet food companies and probably some restaurants too
makes me sick
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on a more positive note, all those fish are going back into the eco system :-\
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you can usually drive down to the reserve and buy large bags of already frozen roe also ;) saves having to go collecting it yourself ::) ::)
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Such a waste of resources. I blame DFO for allowing this to happen. If they want the males they could give them to the food bank. I'm sure that alot of the users of the food bank would appreciate some fresh fish.
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The biggest portion of Pink roe goes to Japan. It apparently fetches a pretty good dollar there.
Hue-nut a more positive note is that all those dead fish could spawn.
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I'm sure the dinos are enjoying them.
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Saw some white guys poaching in Ladner in Aug tehy had a tote full of sockeye. does that mean all white guys are poachers?
Not to me!!!
What these people are doing is wrong but it happens in all walks of life. Report it like I did, then let it go. BIGOT!
I know some guys who didn't even dip a net this summer (damn FN's)
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Seen the same thing on the Harrison- huge piles of dead fish in a couple feet of water. I wish they'd smoke them up.
Lets not go back to the FN arguments- no matter how you look at it, its a shltty situation for both parties.
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I think if they want to fish for food, they should have a set amount they are permitted and every time they do something stupid like this that amount should be dropped, if the DFO was to actually go out and hand out tickets every time they saw an offence, that money would cover more officers and if it doesn't then increase the fines. I cant stand that, whine about needing to fish for food, and then throw away perfectly good food. Even it they dont want to eat the pinks, they could smoke them and sell it alongside the sockey huts that seem to pop up every summer
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Saw some white guys poaching in Ladner in Aug tehy had a tote full of sockeye. does that mean all white guys are poachers?
Not to me!!!
What these people are doing is wrong but it happens in all walks of life. Report it like I did, then let it go. BIGOT!
I know some guys who didn't even dip a net this summer (damn FN's)
I think what makes the situation worse is if I as a white guy were to poach and get caught, i would receive punishment which is good. It appears as though if FN's do this, they get the blind eye. I myself have never seen a FN do this so cant really say if its true but thats the vibe I get.
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As far as I know the FN fishery for pinks always targets roe only. DFO knows this, and yet allows the fishery. So, while it seems wasteful and immoral to me, I'm not sure it is actually illegal. The commercial herring fishery was roe only, with the rest tossed for years.
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I was working with a FN guy a few years ago, he was a nice guy, but the stories he told me made me believe that a majority of his band members have not much respect towards fishing regulations especial about selling the fish they catch for "ceremonial and food purposes" It makes me really sick when I see in TV how they wine about fish and not having enough , on the other hand wasting the fish like there is no tomorrow. I definitely believe that not all FN are this way but a great majority who is involved in fishing are.
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i read somewhere that the sto:lo indian band have their own native fisheries police that watch over infractions caused by band members. i think they are the only band that does this. please correct me if i'm wrong but maybe all interested FN bands should do this (self policing) along with DFO on the fraser. Too much waste and greed the way it is right now.
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I guess it's sort of hard for the FN to respect the rules of the Government of Canada when Canada was created from settlers stealing the land from the FN. A reason why the DFO does not regulate their action is probalby due to sensative issues regarding FN. I dont agree with their actions but i'm sure our commercial fisheries do a lot more damage than they could ever. The destruction of the Atlantic Cod Industry is one of them and i'm sure it wasn't caused by FN.
I'm sure the fishery to them is more important to us as it is not a "sport" to them.
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Sto:lo is not a band, but a tribal council.
There are two main tribal councils in the Fraser Valley - Sto:lo Nation and Stó:lō Tribal Council, each are made of many First Nations from Hope to Langley.
The Lower Fraser First Nations' pink salmon fishery is not a communal or ceremonial fishery, but an economic opportunity opening (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/EconomicOpeningTimes.html). A similar opening for chum salmon is also available in October and November. It is a seine fishery, which allows participants to selectively harvest pink salmon and release other species. Harvested fish, specifically the roe in females, are sold.
The discarding of male pink salmon is obviously not a good practice. Several years ago members of the Upper Fraser Valley Sportfishing Advisory Committee pointed out that when a allocated quota of pink salmon is given in this fishery, the actual harvested/killed amount is in fact double of the quota, assuming the gender ratio is 1:1 and only female fish are harvested.
If it is any consolation, unharvested dead fish return to the ecosystem, doing what they do best, becoming nutrient of the Lower Fraser River watershed. The run size is much larger than required spawning escapement so from the fishery management's perspective, it does not have a significant impact on the number of offsprings produced.
If individuals find this practice unethical, then perhaps one should take a look at the commercial pink and chum salmon fisheries, which remove millions more fish than the First Nations' economic opportunity openings. Both fisheries' objective is to harvest the profitable roe, the difference is that unwanted fish by the commercial sector do not go back to the system, instead majority of the biomass is processed cheaply as various animal food products.
This of course does not excuse witnessed behaviours, because ALL fisheries in every sector have room for improvement. Wasted by-catch in commercial harvest (dumped into the ocean) should be significantly reduced, many participants in the recreational fishery should be treating the resource respectfully (a tour around the Chilliwack, Stave, Chehalis River summarizes this), this planet could be better of without aquacultural practices of predatory species at high trophic level.
The problem with discussions such as this is they simply lead to rants without action and in a couple of months from now, most are forgotten and sink into the archive. Addressing the problem is always good, but failing to research for better understanding of the problem and develop possible solutions only repels any further interests in the issue. Secondly, both intentionally and unintentionally, participants generalize all First Nations as individuals who disrespect the resource. Further more, there is tremendous amount of misinformation and speculations presented, which only widens the division between recreational anglers and First Nations.
If people wish to change things, try dealing from a different approach. Join and volunteer at a local sportfishing organization that can represent your voice. The Fraser Valley Salmon Society, or the BC Federation of Drift Fishers (which by the way, will be launching the new Chehalis fishing trail with the Chehalis First Nation in two weeks from now (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22029.0)). Attend the sportfishing advisory committee meetings, which only take place twice a year.
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Well spoken Rodney,
it is just hard to stay objective when we hear/see the wasting of fish that is going on. I mentioned in one of my previous posts that the commercial fisheries do the most damage to the fish stocks not the sport fishers or the FN people. We just tend to forget about the commercial impact because we don't see them in contrary to the practices that going on the Fraser.
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Very informative post Rodney. I totally agree with the fact that FN fisheries only harvest a very small portion of the pie. Instead of putting the blame on the FN we should focus more on the commercial fisheries which are way more destructive. If we expect the FN to stop their practices, do you guys think that Canadians employed in the fishing industry would appreciate losing their jobs so fishes can be preserved? I'm sure if that was the case then we would be a lot more understanding because fishermen need an income. However, FN also need a source of income and i'm sure if they had more opportunities, they would not be doing what they do.
We dont want our bias in opinion within the sportfishing community turn us into a "Team America".
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the concerning part is, they throw back the males dead not alive...so how selective is this? what are the chances thompson coho and steelhead are casualties in this fishery?
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the concerning part is, they throw back the males dead not alive...so how selective is this? what are the chances thompson coho and steelhead are casualties in this fishery?
That would never happen, use of nets is fine, but sports fishing does not allow the use of roe,, what a joke..
I don't care if I offend people with my views of FN... Go live with them if you want to..
My grandparents could do things 80 years ago that I can't do now, things change, seems FN only wants to take things that are
beneficial and suit their needs and greed.
Just wait for the day we have to pay FN to fish their waters and their fish.
Then see what you will say..
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That would never happen, use of nets is fine, but sports fishing does not allow the use of roe,, what a joke..
I don't care if I offend people with my views of FN... Go live with them if you want to..
My grandparents could do things 80 years ago that I can't do now, things change, seems FN only wants to take things that are
beneficial and suit their needs and greed.
Just wait for the day we have to pay FN to fish their waters and their fish.
Then see what you will say..
You say that FN only wants to take things that are beneficial and suit their needs and greed, well the entire western society is built on that idea AKA Capitalism. Also what is the difference between paying the FN to fish their waters and paying the Canadian Government? To be honest its not about the FN or the sport fishermen, its about pointing fingers at others when i'm sure most of us do things that impact the environment. Most of us are fortunate enough to purchase things that improves our livelihood while the FN dont, so why complain so much about the few rights that they DO have? We are Canadian and we are made of many vast cultures so might as well accept it and if not the USA is a great place to fit in. They love to preach about beliefs and ideas while they create enough problems of their own.
If the day comes that we lose the rights to fish, we wont be able to blame anybody except for ourselves. If we dont have the demand for fish then commercial fisheries would not exist. To be honest I could care less if all the people working in the lumber industry (deforestation), and fishing industry all lost their jobs because it would not affect me at all but I wouldnt steep myself that low.
Also if one day I go catch a fish without using a fishing rod (not going to happen) but I'm sure I still created less of an impact on the fishery than most of the members in this forum since i've only taken home 3 salmon my whole life. For me I just go buy the fish that are dead (killed by commercial boats) and sashimi it up.
PS. If we can't fish anymore might as well go play some golf! oh wait the amount of water consumed for golf courses probably also impacts the ecosystem.
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You say that FN only wants to take things that are beneficial and suit their needs and greed, well the entire western society is built on that idea AKA Capitalism. Also what is the difference between paying the FN to fish their waters and paying the Canadian Government? To be honest its not about the FN or the sport fishermen, its about pointing fingers at others when i'm sure most of us do things that impact the environment. Most of us are fortunate enough to purchase things that improves our livelihood while the FN dont, so why complain so much about the few rights that they DO have? We are Canadian and we are made of many vast cultures so might as well accept it and if not the USA is a great place to fit in. They love to preach about beliefs and ideas while they create enough problems of their own.
If the day comes that we lose the rights to fish, we wont be able to blame anybody except for ourselves. If we dont have the demand for fish then commercial fisheries would not exist. To be honest I could care less if all the people working in the lumber industry (deforestation), and fishing industry all lost their jobs because it would not affect me at all but I wouldnt steep myself that low.
Also if one day I go catch a fish without using a fishing rod (not going to happen) but I'm sure I still created less of an impact on the fishery than most of the members in this forum since i've only taken home 3 salmon my whole life. For me I just go buy the fish that are dead (killed by commercial boats) and sashimi it up.
PS. If we can't fish anymore might as well go play some golf! oh wait the amount of water consumed for golf courses probably also impacts the ecosystem.
Are you saying that the FN cannot purchase things to improve their livelihood like we can? If so where do you get that idea from? They go to school, they can further their education and get any job they want. How can they not?
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Are you saying that the FN cannot purchase things to improve their livelihood like we can? If so where do you get that idea from? They go to school, they can further their education and get any job they want. How can they not?
Sure they can and sometimes if they purchase stuff for example in West Vancouver Park Royal they dont even have to pay taxes. But in realty, us Canadians are very fortunate to be able to live in such a beautiful country. However this country was not native to us. If you understand some Canadian History or taken some sociology courses regarding FN societies you would understand what i mean by them not having access to similar opportunities. Sure they can even go to UBC with a 60 avg but how many UBC students are actually FN? or How many of them actually get income to purchase stuff like we own (i've seen posts about how much many of you fishermen spend on fishing gear a year). Its not because they do not want to go its more because their culture has gone through many generations of suppression which has created many negative effects (E. Hastings). A psychological term would be "learned helplessness" where you lose for so long you just give up.
I dont believe in them taking advantage of their rights, but give them a break. How would you feel if someone came to your house and changed the land title to them but they allowed you to occupy in only a part of your house ( probably the basement, if you've seen where the reserve is in west vancouver near the railroads and industrial plants). A buddy of mine which is FN is from the Shushwap area and the land is BEAUTIFUL! But you know what its their land and they do have the rights to govern it however they want without other people's judgement.
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How would you feel if someone came to your house and changed the land title to them but they allowed you to occupy in only a part of your house ( probably the basement, if you've seen where the reserve is in west vancouver near the railroads and industrial plants). A buddy of mine which is FN is from the Shushwap area and the land is BEAUTIFUL! But you know what its their land and they do have the rights to govern it however they want without other people's judgement.
It was only when land title systems were created that individuals had a legal right to the land.
FN (indians) were settlers, how did we get to the point of suggesting they had legal rights to the land? Just because they lived in a small part of the land, how does that make it all theirs?
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It was only when land title systems were created that individuals had a legal right to the land.
FN (indians) were settlers, how did we get to the point of suggesting they had legal rights to the land? Just because they lived in a small part of the land, how does that make it all theirs?
I think you better get your head out of the sand on this one! What you need to remember is the land here is owned by the said Indians and never has and never will be sold or ceded.A smalll part of the land!...... you're dreamin! You should look into some history and get the facts! We lived on all of it. duh!
Hotrod
all rights reserved
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It was only when land title systems were created that individuals had a legal right to the land.
FN (indians) were settlers, how did we get to the point of suggesting they had legal rights to the land? Just because they lived in a small part of the land, how does that make it all theirs?
The land title system that we have is also called a Torren's system which was adapted from another country. The reason why we adaped to such a system was because of the growing popularity of the real estate market. In case you dont know what that means it is the buying/selling of your rights to a particular parcel of crown land. However you should note that the system was developed by our government and not theirs so they are not required to have it to have ownership over land.
Maybe you should stop fishing all the time (suggested by your forum name alwaysfishin) and hit some books becuase your ignorance will only worsen any problem. We are merely sportfishermen comparing our fishing standards to a group of fishermen that do it for a living. So back off and let the FN do as they please because the real group of fishermen that cause the greatest impact on the ecosystem are the commercial ones.
BTW if your logic was put into place, maybe one day if CHINA invades Canada i'm sure you'd be cool that you lost your house because they dont go by our system.
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perhaps if "FN" had better marketing/buisness skills they would not have to DUMP all those exess sockeye, or throw away humpies. I know I paid my way through school, trade school and same post secondary education, FN dont need to pay for this schooling they get it free. It really makes me wonder , if you get soo many benifits because your FN , why dont you use it?
is it easier to rape and plunder OUR rivers, and blame everyone else?
Me as a sportie knows that I have impacted the salmon/steelhead, thats why I give back in money and time.......but throwing away usable fish is just stupid, no matter who you are.
(http://www.burtonclose.co.uk/diary/wp-content/plugins/MrMen/Images/Greedy.jpg)
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i read somewhere that the sto:lo indian band have their own native fisheries police that watch over infractions caused by band members. i think they are the only band that does this. please correct me if i'm wrong but maybe all interested FN bands should do this (self policing) along with DFO on the fraser. Too much waste and greed the way it is right now.
This is very funny. You can't even trust cops to police themselves what makes you think indians would do the same. Born and raised in ladner I know allmost all the indians on that reserve. Let me tell you These guys don't care about much except for there rights. Right to do anything they want. Indians policing themselves is laughable at best.
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perhaps if "FN" had better marketing/buisness skills they would not have to DUMP all those exess sockeye, or throw away humpies. I know I paid my way through school, trade school and same post secondary education, FN dont need to pay for this schooling they get it free. It really makes me wonder , if you get soo many benifits because your FN , why dont you use it?
is it easier to rape and plunder OUR rivers, and blame everyone else?
Me as a sportie knows that I have impacted the salmon/steelhead, thats why I give back in money and time.......but throwing away usable fish is just stupid, no matter who you are.
(http://www.burtonclose.co.uk/diary/wp-content/plugins/MrMen/Images/Greedy.jpg)
What a great uneducated guess! show the deed to the land that shows it was sold to anyone. with the exception of a few a, at most, you'll never find it.
your land! ha! lmao
Hotrod
all rights reserved
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I do own land, and I worked to pay for it. NOTHING was handed to me like other hard working canadians.
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Actually nobody in Canada owns their land because all of our land is owned by the crown. You just have the rights to use that land, if one day you died and nobody was there to inherit it, it would automatically default back to the crown.
With regards to your comment about raping and plundering the rivers, with your socalled marketing/business skills you should go read some news and see who is acutally the cause of the raping. I"m sure it is the commercial fishermen that do it for a living so if you think the FN are so bad why dont you go give them problems. I"m shocked that someone with "some" post secondary education can come up with what you just said. I guess you still believe learned in the stuff you learned in grade 4 about the pilgrims being friends with the FN and sharing the food story. Its embarassing that the sportfishing community has so many ignorant people. Maybe its time to stop googling fishing information (to be honest i do that a lot) and read some stuff about Canadian history. It wont take long since it is only a few hundred years but wait I guess in your eyes there was nobody in Canada before that.
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The land title system that we have is also called a Torren's system which was adapted from another country. The reason why we adaped to such a system was because of the growing popularity of the real estate market. In case you dont know what that means it is the buying/selling of your rights to a particular parcel of crown land. However you should note that the system was developed by our government and not theirs so they are not required to have it to have ownership over land.
Maybe you should stop fishing all the time (suggested by your forum name alwaysfishin) and hit some books becuase your ignorance will only worsen any problem. We are merely sportfishermen comparing our fishing standards to a group of fishermen that do it for a living. So back off and let the FN do as they please because the real group of fishermen that cause the greatest impact on the ecosystem are the commercial ones.
BTW if your logic was put into place, maybe one day if CHINA invades Canada i'm sure you'd be cool that you lost your house because they dont go by our system.
If you and hotrod quit calling people "ignorant" you may also learn something! As it is your arrogant attitude will get you less than any respect....
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First of all i'm not FN or am I here to ask for anyones respect. What I care about, are people making comments about FN when they have no clue whats really going on. You say the FN are stupid for throwing the fish back in the water? But you know what? It brings back nutrients into the water. Like Rodney said in his previous post, commmercial fisheries are smart or how you call good marketing/business skills because they keep the fish and process it into cheap canned fish. Therefore I am curious why you care about the FN throwing the fish back, is it because of the environment or are you just bitter that FN can do something that you can't?
Sportfishing has regulations because we do it for a sport where the FN do it for work. So instead of comparing the FN with the many snaggers/flossers that exist in sportfishing, compare them with the commercial fishermen.
I was also curious what I can learn, if i stop calling people "ignorant"? I'd rather not learn to be judgemental on other cultures just because they are different from us. Also its hard for me to take advice from someone that said, "FN (indians) were settlers, how did we get to the point of suggesting they had legal rights to the land? Just because they lived in a small part of the land, how does that make it all theirs?" i thought only some typical "Americans" could say something like that and not someone from Canada, especially someone that stated that they had post secondary education. But to answer your questions, they did have legal rights to their land, and just because they dont use a similar land title system doesn't mean it isn't valid.
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Ignorant , is someone who thinks........letting a pink salmon die on the deck of a boat, only to be tossed dead over the side, thinking a dead salmon is good for the environment.
are you for real ? wasting a fish is just that wasting a fish.......I dont care if a native does it or a white guy does it, its just stupid.....stupid
if the salmon is soo important to thier survival why not eat it?
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on a different note, I read that the chinese were here on the west coast long before the natives were.
google it.
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First of all i'm not FN or am I here to ask for anyones respect. What I care about, are people making comments about FN when they have no clue whats really going on. You say the FN are stupid for throwing the fish back in the water? But you know what? It brings back nutrients into the water. Like Rodney said in his previous post, commmercial fisheries are smart or how you call good marketing/business skills because they keep the fish and process it into cheap canned fish. Therefore I am curious why you care about the FN throwing the fish back, is it because of the environment or are you just bitter that FN can do something that you can't?
Sportfishing has regulations because we do it for a sport where the FN do it for work. So instead of comparing the FN with the many snaggers/flossers that exist in sportfishing, compare them with the commercial fishermen.
I was also curious what I can learn, if i stop calling people "ignorant"? I'd rather not learn to be judgemental on other cultures just because they are different from us. Also its hard for me to take advice from someone that said, "FN (indians) were settlers, how did we get to the point of suggesting they had legal rights to the land? Just because they lived in a small part of the land, how does that make it all theirs?" i thought only some typical "Americans" could say something like that and not someone from Canada, especially someone that stated that they had post secondary education. But to answer your questions, they did have legal rights to their land, and just because they dont use a similar land title system doesn't mean it isn't valid.
Do you honestly think they are throwing salmon overboard thinking that the dead fish are going to provide nutrients to the system? Thats a joke right?
Its simple, they throw the dead males overboard and keep the females because they actually have some monetary value.
Just as Jim said. Wasting is wasting simple as that.
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Do you honestly think they are throwing salmon overboard thinking that the dead fish are going to provide nutrients to the system? Thats a joke right?
Its simple, they throw the dead males overboard and keep the females because they actually have some monetary value.
Just as Jim said. Wasting is wasting simple as that.
I'm sure they dont do it with that attention but the final effect is that it still provides nutrients. Would not wasting it mean that they should just keep it and process it into cheap canned products?
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ed ...you just cant see the forest through the trees.
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Ignorant , is someone who thinks........letting a pink salmon die on the deck of a boat, only to be tossed dead over the side, thinking a dead salmon is good for the environment.
are you for real ? wasting a fish is just that wasting a fish.......I dont care if a native does it or a white guy does it, its just stupid.....stupid
if the salmon is soo important to thier survival why not eat it?
I didn't mean that it is right to let a pink salmon die on the deck of a boat. I was just comparing the difference between what the FN do and what commercial fisheries do. I'm sure the overal impact the FN create on the environment is very minimal compared to the commercial boats.
Why put so much hate on the FN when the fingers should be pointed at the commercial fishermen? It is sad that someone said that if a native was to drown they woudln't even look twice.
Many cultures around the world have different customs. Chinese culture for example, they eat every part of an animal including intestines etc where it is not as common in caucasian cultures. Does it mean that they are stupid for wasting food? I've seen many white people grossed out by the idea of eating intestines, brains, tripes, and etc so does it mean other people have the rights to call them stupid?
All i'm trying to say is lets just be accepting of each other and dont judge another race just by their practices.
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I do own land, and I worked to pay for it. NOTHING was handed to me like other hard working canadians.
Wrong again! What you have there is only "color" of title. You don't actually own it! You can't own land that you bought from someone, who never bought it from the true owners! Why don't you google" The royal proclamation of 1763" and maybe you will stop guessing!
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on a different note, I read that the chinese were here on the west coast long before the natives were.
google it.
Here's a big load of you know what too! How convenient!! Another good guess but wrong again!
Hotrod
all rights reserved
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I guess first nations people had aluminium boats, internal combustion engines, and drift nets when they would fish in the past??? . I have no problem with the first nations fishing for food, ceremony, and profit. The thing that gets me is that they harvest their fish with the above tools which make them deadly effective. >:( . They claim it is traditional, so do it traditionally.
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Ummmm.....what comercial fishery on the fraser.......the natives or the commies?
the commies only had 1- 12 hour opening last oct.....impact ?......all fish sold, not thrown overboard.
seeing someone drown, even hotrod (would have to think about it for 5-10 minutes) native or non native, I would risk my life to help like I have done in the past....twice.
I dont hate natives , and I'am not racist (carlo is my only ethnic friend...lol) but I dont like the way they go about some things.
why not release the pinks alive?
little story for you....A native elder lived down the street from me for many years, I use to give her eaulachons every spring when we were still allowed to net them, she told me she could not get them (or salmon) from her grandsons because they sold all of thier catch......poor grandma.
hotrod are you saying that natives owned all of the land in new westminster?........hahaha...
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Hotrod, if I'm living on your (native) land, could you please come over and sweep your sidewalk, and cut and weed your grass ...........my wife says its my job, but its your land. ??? ;D :-*
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I guess first nations people had aluminium boats, internal combustion engines, and drift nets when they would fish in the past??? . I have no problem with the first nations fishing for food, ceremony, and profit. The thing that gets me is that they harvest their fish with the above tools which make them deadly effective. >:( . They claim it is traditional, so do it traditionally.
Are you trying to say FN cannot be advancing with technology? i'm sure many traditions from many cultures have also changed since the beginning
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hotrod Im assuming youre native? I read the royal proclamation of 1763 and it says that it may or may not be for across canada. Maybe you could go into more depth? Also who now is the "owner" of the land? All natives or is it just one person? Maybe the "owner(s)" should step up to the plate and work with the government to help control the environmental issues that are wrong in this day and age. Id like to see the land title that shows they have ownership of it as well.
hotrod (and anyone else interested) heres a link from the university of calgary:
http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/firstnations/theories.html (http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/firstnations/theories.html)
The crown has ownership of all the land except for FN land. We merely have an undivided interest in the land that we live on or else you wouldn't need so many permits for buildling things on "our" land.
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The crown has ownership of all the land except for FN land. We merely have an undivided interest in the land that we live on or else you wouldn't need so many permits for buildling things on "our" land.
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Hotrod, if I'm living on your (native) land, could you please come over and sweep your sidewalk, and cut and weed your grass ...........my wife says its my job, but its your land. ??? ;D :-*
Good one! LMAO :D
I would freakout if any of my relatives started throwing pinks overboard, in fact I wouldn't partake in any type of fisherie that would involve this behavior.
Can anyone here produce the deed that identifies the sale of the land to the crown? It doesn't exhist! That's the point! Natives still own the land....all of it.
Coho Crazy!
I would suggest that you re-read the Royal Proclamation. It's all there! Then go to the 1982 constitution of charter of rights and freedom.
section 52(1) states"The constitution of Canada is the supreme law in Canada and any law that is inconsistant with the provisions of it to the extent of inconsistancy is of no force and effect,
Now refer to section 25(1) which upholds the Royal Proclamation of 1763 it says, among many things, "..the indians shall not be molested or disturbed....as not having been ceded to or purchased by us are reserved for them or any them as their hunting grounds"
So your Constitution up hold this agreement that states no sale of any land ever took place and The only one who can buy it is her Majesty in Great Britain.It also goes on to say that if we ever want any whites to be removed that they will have them removed for us. These are the facts and I accept them for value as to what they(the whites) must do. They are bound by it! Those statements alone have got to answer a lot of your questions!
Hotrod
all rights reserved
PS. As for stepping up to the plate CC, there are some things in motion that cannot be changed. As long as the green grass grows,the wind blows, and rivers flow.arr
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Ed, "advancing with technology"?? The word tradition can be thrown out the window with that statement.
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Ed, "advancing with technology"?? The word tradition can be thrown out the window with that statement.
The Cultural Revolution allowed China to give up some "old methods and ideals" to advance with technology which resulted in the powerful nation it has turned into today. Are you trying to say that China has no traditions because they are technologically advanced now ?
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Good one! LMAO :D
I would freakout if any of my relatives started throwing pinks overboard, in fact I wouldn't partake in any type of fisherie that would involve this behavior.
Can anyone here produce the deed that identifies the sale of the land to the crown? It doesn't exhist! That's the point! Natives still own the land....all of it.
Coho Crazy!
I would suggest that you re-read the Royal Proclamation. It's all there! Then go to the 1982 constitution of charter of rights and freedom.
section 52(1) states"The constitution of Canada is the supreme law in Canada and any law that is inconsistant with the provisions of it to the extent of inconsistancy is of no force and effect,
Now refer to section 25(1) which upholds the Royal Proclamation of 1763 it says, among many things, "..the indians shall not be molested or disturbed....as not having been ceded to or purchased by us are reserved for them or any them as their hunting grounds"
So your Constitution up hold this agreement that states no sale of any land ever took place and The only one who can buy it is her Majesty in Great Britain.It also goes on to say that if we ever want any whites to be removed that they will have them removed for us. These are the facts and I accept them for value as to what they(the whites) must do. They are bound by it! Those statements alone have got to answer a lot of your questions!
Hotrod
all rights reserved
PS. As for stepping up to the plate CC, there are some things in motion that cannot be changed. As long as the green grass grows,the wind blows, and rivers flow.arr
Hey Hotrod I"m just curious if you knew exactly what happend between the transition of land between the FN and the Crown? I have no idea and would love to know. My guess is that they pretty much just stole the land because Great Britain was notorious for doing it as they were one of the biggest empires in history and i'm sure they didn't do it by being fair to the other parties. Sometimes it plagues me that in highschool you learn that Hitler was so bad but they fail to mention that the British were equally or even worse since their domination was for a much longer period and affected way denser populations.
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So......when you cut the head and tail off your fish and throw them in the garbage (or hopefully at least the river), do you realize that you're in fact wasting (your own words) edible bits??? In MOST parts of the world that would be considered a complete waste. Soup stock can be made of the head/tail. The eyes are considered a delicacy in some cultures. Cheeks, brain etc. is all eaten...not sent to a landfill.
So before you start coming down on a culture for "wasting" fish, TAKE A GOOD LOOK IN THE MIRROR! We're not as squeaky clean as we like to think.
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So......when you cut the head and tail off your fish and throw them in the garbage (or hopefully at least the river), do you realize that you're in fact wasting (your own words) edible bits??? In MOST parts of the world that would be considered a complete waste. Soup stock can be made of the head/tail. The eyes are considered a delicacy in some cultures. Cheeks, brain etc. is all eaten...not sent to a landfill.
So before you start coming down on a culture for "wasting" fish, TAKE A GOOD LOOK IN THE MIRROR! We're not as squeaky clean as we like to think.
Lol its so true what you just said. I've been trying to explain that for a while. In many cultures we eat fish head (soup +cheeks best part of the meat), ox tail (soup etc), pig intestines (deep friend etc), tripes (Pho, stews), and the list goes on. If all of you think that wasting fish is stupid then take a look in the mirror the next time you think that way. I'm sure most of you wouldn't even think about eating pig intestines, pig feet, chicken feet. So by all your logic you're all wasting fine edible food.
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So......when you cut the head and tail off your fish and throw them in the garbage (or hopefully at least the river), do you realize that you're in fact wasting (your own words) edible bits??? In MOST parts of the world that would be considered a complete waste. Soup stock can be made of the head/tail. The eyes are considered a delicacy in some cultures. Cheeks, brain etc. is all eaten...not sent to a landfill.
So before you start coming down on a culture for "wasting" fish, TAKE A GOOD LOOK IN THE MIRROR! We're not as squeaky clean as we like to think.
Are you for real ?.......done get out much eh ?....
throwing a whole salmon overboard dead, that you killed for no reason (other than bycatch) is waaay different than throwing out some guts, head and tails.
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Ed!
I know exactly what happened between the crown and FN's. ..... nothing.....and fraud!
Hotrod
All rights reserved
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Lol its so true what you just said. I've been trying to explain that for a while. In many cultures we eat fish head (soup +cheeks best part of the meat), ox tail (soup etc), pig intestines (deep friend etc), tripes (Pho, stews), and the list goes on. If all of you think that wasting fish is stupid then take a look in the mirror the next time you think that way. I'm sure most of you wouldn't even think about eating pig intestines, pig feet, chicken feet. So by all your logic you're all wasting fine edible food.
you can't be serious
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you can't be serious
quite serious. Wasting is wasting no matter how you waste it. Stop being hypocrites and leave the FN alone!
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ed when you hit 20 years old, you will understand things a little better. ;D
killing a fish for no use is not even close to what the general public does.
I dont eat liver or guts, because I can afford prime rib.