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[newsman]

1. If the fishing reports bother you so much why do you read them?

Yeh why is that? If you don't like it don't look!

[Ribwart]

Wow, Fishin magician has really gotten under some members skins with this one eh?

Although I could care less about whether the size of a fish is embellished or not, and I hope nobody considers posting less as a result of this thread, I do think FM brings up a valid point in that sometimes posters get pestered to post pics as proof of their catches...I agree with him that this is lame. I like to see pictures, just as much as the next guy, but I hope I never come across as doubting or calling someone liar if I am craving some fish pics, it couldn't be further from that for me. I also appreciate the angler who doesn't compromise the fish in some way just to get a pic, in some circumstances it's better to just forego the pic till next time. That speaks volumes to me. I recently witnessed an angler taking a pic of a steelie out of the allouette, it was lying in on the dirt and grass on the bank, and he took a couple pics and then released it, afterwards I found out it was a wild fish,(even if it were a hatch, it shouldn't have been treated that way if it was going to be released)...I spoke with this person at length and determined that the pics were taken for the purposes a report on the net, that was the excuse for mistreating the fish anyway...this is one example of how priorities can get out of wack so to speak...and in this I see validity in FM's point on pictures.

I made the point in one of my earlier posts in this thread, that the reward is in the fishing, not necessarily the posting. I enjoy reading the reports of members here, especially when it is obvious that they are experiencing the same joy that I get from a good day. It's great to read about other anglers experiences, especially when their excitement is obvious and transmitted through what they have written. It saddens me to think some members might place too high a priority on hook up rates so they can post to that effect, or replace concern for a fish's well being with an overwhelming desire to take a picture for proof, or even stop sharing their experiences due to unnecessary criticisms they've recieved in the past. These are points I think FM touched on in a general sense, and in a nutshell such examples show how sometimes "priorities can get out of wack".  So regardless of all of the issues some members might have with some of FM's points, there is some validity there as well...

No complaining, just looking at the big picture, and seeing an important point being ignored here, and I am a subscriber who does appreciate this site and the work Rod and his colleagues do here...
my two cents,
rib

[FISHIN MAGICIAN]

Wow, Fishin magician has really gotten under some members skins with this one eh?

Although I could care less about whether the size of a fish is embellished or not, and I hope nobody considers posting less as a result of this thread, I do think FM brings up a valid point in that sometimes posters get pestered to post pics as proof of their catches...I agree with him that this is lame. I like to see pictures, just as much as the next guy, but I hope I never come across as doubting or calling someone liar if I am craving some fish pics, it couldn't be further from that for me. I also appreciate the angler who doesn't compromise the fish in some way just to get a pic, in some circumstances it's better to just forego the pic till next time. That speaks volumes to me. I recently witnessed an angler taking a pic of a steelie out of the allouette, it was lying in on the dirt and grass on the bank, and he took a couple pics and then released it, afterwards I found out it was a wild fish...I spoke with this person at length and determined that the pics were taken for a report on the net, that was the excuse for mistreating the fish anyway...this is one example of how priorities can get out of wack so to speak...and in this I see some validity in FM's point on pics.

I made the point in one of my earlier posts in this thread, that the reward is in the fishing, not necessarily the posting. I enjoy reading the reports of members here, especially when it is obvious that they are experiencing the same joy that I get from a good day. It's great to read about other anglers experiences, especially when their excitement is obvious and transmitted through what they have written. It saddens me to think some members might place too high a priority on hook up rates so they can post to that effect, or replace concern for a fish's well being with an overwhelming desire to take a picture for proof, or even stop sharing their experiences due to unnecessary criticisms they've recieved in the past. These are points I think FM touched on in a general sense, and in a nutshell such examples show how sometimes "priorities can get out of wack".  So regardless of all of the issues some members might have with some of FM's points, there is some validity there as well...

No complaining, just looking at the big picture, and seeing an important point being ignored here, and I am a subscriber who does appreciate this site and the work Rod and his colleagues do here...
my two cents,
rib

Thanks for being objective Ribwart. Apparently I have struck a few nerves--knew it would too.

I'm going to go away and hope this thread dies a graceful death, before it turns into a mish mash where the real issues are lost in a river of mud slinging, insults, assumptions and non factual verbal assaults which has already started.  

[FISHIN MAGICIAN]

No kidding this guy bitching about the weight of people fish , when there out catching fish and this guy is sitting at home behind his screen complaining

As per my last post...see what I mean? 

[clarki]

Well..there's a few things which I dirtied in my original post.

1. The credibility of the report is drawn into question when the weight of the fish is so drastically off---so there's no telling what other parts of the report have been embellished.

2. The ribbing of members who post reports without pictures is wrong, unsportmanlike, and uncalled for and reflects badly on no one else but you.

3. The practice of posting pictures has turned into something else than just a "for the moment" and love of the moment and more than just a "share the moment"--and like a couple of other people have already pointed out---the need for attention and recognition and "ego stroking".

4. You should be fishing for no one else than yourself and not the regard of other forum members.

Would posting the same fishing report and photos on 3 (or was it 4?) different forums count under #3?  

[Big Steel]

Well..there's a few things which I dirtied in my original post.

1. The credibility of the report is drawn into question when the weight of the fish is so drastically off---so there's no telling what other parts of the report have been embellished.

2. The ribbing of members who post reports without pictures is wrong, unsportmanlike, and uncalled for and reflects badly on no one else but you.

3. The practice of posting pictures has turned into something else than just a "for the moment" and love of the moment and more than just a "share the moment"--and like a couple of other people have already pointed out---the need for attention and recognition and "ego stroking".

4. You should be fishing for no one else than yourself and not the regard of other forum members.

Would posting the same fishing report and photos on 3 (or was it 4?) different forums count under #3?  

Yes I believe it would.  Well it would if you agree with this line of thinking anyways.  But really, no one really knows what any other person is thinking, or what it is the actually motivates them to do what they do.  Thus, in just starting a thread such as this, and anyone who agrees with what FM has stated, are making grand assumptions on what is motivating people to post reports and well, just asking for the mud slinging to begin.  The way I see it FM, it is kinda like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it?

[Ribwart]

  But really, no one really knows what any other person is thinking, or what it is the actually motivates them to do what they do.  Thus, in just starting a thread such as this, and anyone who agrees with what FM has stated, are making grand assumptions on what is motivating people to post reports and well, just asking for the mud slinging to begin.

Regardless of the other issues floating around this thread, I make no assumptions about what motivates some people to post reports. I can't, like you said... I don't know what they are thinking. But as I stated in my last post, I did encounter an angler that was somewhat blinded by his desire to post pics in a report for the net, and in obtaining those pictures placed a steelhead that was to be released under undue stress. I did not presume his motivation, I was told what that motivation was.

Don't get me wrong, I take no offence to your statement Big Steel, but I don't want to let it detract from the point I was trying to make. Sometimes people can get their priorities mixed up based on their desire to post pics and in this instance a fish was mistreated as a result. Did that fish survive? Maybe...maybe not...it's chances of survival however, in my opinion, were reduced as a result. Why?  By the anglers own admission, to get a pic for a report on the net. In this I think an important issue can be brought to light. If it happened once, in all likelihood it has happened before, and could very well happen again. Bringing this point to bear here, may achieve cause for thought the next time someone wants to throw a fish on the bank for a pic on a website. I don't doubt most anglers here practice sound fish handling, but I equally believe others do not. This is where I agree with what FM has said, if only to give anglers pause for thought. Maybe next time someone starts to get their priorities mixed up they will think twice before throwing a fish on the bank.  So regardless of what nerves have been struck, or presumptions made of people's motivations, there's more to this thread than just disagreement. I am sure most would agree mistreating a fish for the sake of a few pictures is not acceptable. Don't you?

[Big Steel]

Ribwart, my post was not at all directed at you.  I listen to and respect what you have to say, however there are some on this and other websites that feel the need to take shots at others on line, assuming that they know why a person does what they do.  I do realize that at times there is a lot of pressure on some to post pics for whatever reason.  I personally don't really care to much about getting pics.  But when I do get them, I use them to keep the overall feeling alive.   If the opportunity arises, I get one.  For instance, today, if that fish had have been wild, I was in no position to get a pic.  Would I have posted a report without any pics, yes.  Would there have been some on here that would have called BS?  Yes, I mean come on, look at what my initials are!!   Would that have made me more determined to get a pic of the next fish?  No.  For all the pics I have, one would think that I take pics in any situation. But, I know that my time and opportunity for pics will come. I take pics so that I will always remember that moment like it was yesterday.  When looking at the pics, it brings back everything that happened leading up to that moment. Now as for it being an ego thing, is it? That is up to the person who post the pics.  But like I said, you never really know what motivates a person, unless of course they come out and tell you.  Not everyone that post reports are doing it to stroke their egos.   Also why wouldn't someone post a report on different forums knowing that not everyone is on every forum.  I post reports to try and help out.  From different forums, you get different questions, if I can help someone out in the report, answer questions or whatever, I am going to do it.  After saying all of that though, I realize that at times fish (steelhead) are put into situations they should not be for the sake of a pic.  This should not be happening, and hopefully threw threads such as this, as you said, it will make someone think twice about putting a fish in a bad situation just for the sake of getting the pic for whatever reason.  I liked that thread you had up on the other forum about proper handling tecniques.  It was a good read and hopefully will help future fishermen in this area.   Anyhow, I have said enough and I hope that I got somewhat of a point across, or at least showed that there is sometimes a different way of looking at things.

[Ribwart]

Yes, I agree, it is far too presumptious to assume an anglers motivation to post a report is to stroke their own ego. Although I am sure it does happen, I am equally sure anglers post to share their experiences, give good information, express their excitement over their day, or any other number of reasons, etc, etc, etc...it is impossible to know why, but I think it might just be safe enough to say that all of these reasons apply at some point or another. I think now with this last post of yours your point was made very well, and it's quite valid. There's definitely other ways of looking at things.

 Point in fact, in FM posting what he did, he showed somewhat how he looks at things. However much someone might disagree with him or dislike his delivery, it is possible that in some instances his assumptions are correct. Just as it is equally possible that in many other instances they are not. I don't think this thread was a waste of time or "ridiculous" as fishfreak put it, although I can see why someone would think so. I think it was poorly put, confrontational and broadly applied, but nevertheless likely it will, by it's own confrontational nature, draw attention to some issues that might otherwise be ignored if put differently. In fact, by your response and the responses of others, I hope that it might bring others to read this thread and consider how anglers priorities might differ. Just as you said, there are different ways of looking at things. Hopefully we all will consider other people's points of view and recognize the valid points that can be garnished from these different perspectives. Regardless of how presumptious, assuming or negative a perspective is, even in this case. If someone who doesn't place priority on the fish's well being over taking a few pictures, reads this thread, they might consider their own actions the next time they are on the river handling a fish, if that happens even once I will be glad FM posted this thread, however much he pissed off some people in the process. 

Nice fish by the way BS...   Must've been some nice "berries" in that one...those will come in handy next year...

rib

[Big Steel]

Nice fish by the way BS...   Must've been some nice "berries" in that one...those will come in handy next year...

rib

Next year?  They are goign to come in handy next weekend!!   Now I have fresh steely for lunch tomorrow as well, after an incredible supper!!  

[fishfryer]

if you weren't so cynical, FM, and you weren't so sure that everybody else is lying, maybe you'd get some respect. Who gives a damn anyway. Why is it your God given right to question everyone's integrity, with no proof. when you attacked me last year on another forum, I figured that you were just a troublemaker, now, i think that it might just be a case of "steelhead envy" or "winter spring envy" or...

[FISHIN MAGICIAN]

Sigh. 

[mojoman]

its really quite simple FM....all fishermen are liars...except you and me....and I'm not so sure about you...


mojo

[Geff_t]

I thought that it was just a gene that we are born with. I thought that we always lie about the size  .