Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on November 06, 2018, 11:10:19 AM
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Rodney perhaps you can comment on this,
How come we are seeing such a dramatic change in pointing out these fisheries this year. In the past the message from these groups has been we need to work together, Pointing the finger will only cause more fishing to get shut down ect..
Their seems to be a big shift in tone this year...
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Furious
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How come we are seeing such a dramatic change in pointing out these fisheries this year. In the past the message from these groups has been we need to work together....
Their seems to be a big shift in tone this year...
...because it seems the effort of 'working together' has been lopsided to one side.
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...because it seems the effort of 'working together' has been lopsided to one side.
It’s been lopsided for years but it seems theres less fish now
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Since this part of DFO's responsibility I'll see if I can print off this letter and pictures and send them to our Minister of Fisheries NV MP
Jonathan Wilkinson, and see what response we get.
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By-catch? I can count approximately 6 sturgeon in that net and 3 salmon. It is high time this is the issue that makes the news. I truly am almost at the point I do not care if I fish anymore. If that is what it will take to save the salmon and the STURGEON then so be it.
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Honestly nothing will change. This season has been a real eye opener for me. It is clear as day that those nets will be out till the last fish is caught. With all the budget cuts to DFO and hatchery programs over the years IE. shutting down the Squamish office. It's clear to me that the federal government views this department as a burden to paying off their massive deficit. I'm sure they'll be happy if all Fraser salmon are gone completely. Trust me guys, once the salmon start to disappear, the nets will be calling for a Sturgeon fishery.
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Waiting for Ralph to join in and attempt to convince us how this sort of bycatch is still acceptable for FN...and that we shouldn't overreact....right Ralph?
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Waiting for Ralph to join in and attempt to convince us how this sort of bycatch is still acceptable for FN...and that we shouldn't overreact....right Ralph?
FWIW, this could be fake news.
Can anyone PROVE BEYOND DOUBT that those fish were caught in FN nets?
Without video proof and some faces, this might be ANYONE'S nets.
I've seen too much propaganda at work in my life to take a few pics from the internet as a "smoking gun" of some tribe's wrongdoing.
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There's no mention of this is from a FN fishery. The point of this letter is to push for selective fishing practices in all sectors.
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You're right about no mention of FN's, but if you look at the bottom photo it's obvious it's a shore based operation that the commies are not known for. If I'm mistaken please correct me if I'm way off on my assumption.
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If I'm not mistaken, the only boats authorized to net right now in the Fraser are FN boats. I may be wrong but I have not seen any opening listed for commercial. Just FN
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There's no mention of this is from a FN fishery. The point of this letter is to push for selective fishing practices in all sectors.
No there isn't. The letter sticks to facts: how fish is wasted using non-selective methods.
It was Robert G's mention of FNs that changes the angle, creating "fake news" in the process.
You're right about no mention of FN's, but if you look at the bottom photo it's obvious it's a shore based operation that the commies are not known for. If I'm mistaken please correct me if I'm way off on my assumption.
Sorry blayd, but nothing is "obvious" from the photo. It might as well be staged.
But you can certainly assume whatever you want. Maybe that's the whole point.
If I'm not mistaken, the only boats authorized to net right now in the Fraser are FN boats. I may be wrong but I have not seen any opening listed for commercial. Just FN
And just how recent do you think those photos are?
The sturgeon one is stamped 2018.8.21, making it almost three months old. The salmon picture has no dates at all. It could be years old, not months.
Like I said - this picture does not incriminate a particular sector; it merely denounces a practice.
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Sorry blayd, but nothing is "obvious" from the photo. It might as well be staged.
But you can certainly assume whatever you want. Maybe that's the whole point.
Staged by whom? The coalition of federations that signed off on the letter? I highly doubt they would publish a photo that was provided by an unreliable source. Of course that's strictly my assumption, regardless, it's an issue that needs to be addressed and resolved in a manner that supersedes resistance from ANY special interest group whether it be commercial or FN's.
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Photos like this have been around for many years. The salmon in those photos are fairly certainly from an FN economic opp. fishery since they are required to toss dead salmon or steelhead that are not named as a target species in those openings. Not that this is any different than what happens in the general commercial openings in the Fraser or in the ocean where FOC has long assumed 60% of fish caught in a gillnet and released end up dead providing they are not already dead when they are removed from the net.
Making this just about FNs only, well it's clear what that is.
Attempts to replace gillnets with more selective means have gone no where. Gillents for salmon are considered 'selective' by OceanWise and similar organizations. Consider this quote from their website:
Gillnets are walls of netting suspended in the water column. Gillnets are invisible to the fish who attempt to pass through and become entangled by their gills. Gillnets are generally a selective way of fishing when used in salmon fisheries, but can cause by-catch when used to target warmwater species such as blue swimmer crabs.
http://seafood.ocean.org/seafood/harvest-methods/#gillnet
They generally consider it selective because it targets salmon and that's what is mostly catches. They don't worry about steelhead since overall steelhead are not considered endangered. Ocean Wise recommends Fraser sockeye based on the recommendation of the Marine Stewardship Council which in BC is supposedly a creature of the BC Ministry of Agriculture and the Commercial Fish industry.
I don't think either they (Min of Agriculture)or DFO get too worried about letters on the topic.
So maybe the minds to change are the people at Ocean Wise as well as chefs and food columnists who prefer BC sockeye salmon or Sushi chefs who serve chum salmon roe. Kill the market for the stuff.
That sturgeon are in the photo lends weight to the argument to get gillnets out of the Fraser because the public perceives them as more at risk and mostly has no clue about steelhead or IF coho.
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So Ralph seeing those pictures of the fraser river fish,wasted and sturgeon killed, doesn’t bother you? It’s just what has been going on for years, and it’s not a big deal to you?
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FWIW, this could be fake news.
Can anyone PROVE BEYOND DOUBT that those fish were caught in FN nets?
Without video proof and some faces, this might be ANYONE'S nets.
I've seen too much propaganda at work in my life to take a few pics from the internet as a "smoking gun" of some tribe's wrongdoing.
You must be smoking the worst quality crack ever.
You're right about one thing....from those pictures, I could not prove in court that this is FN bycatch....but there is this little thing that eludes most left wing bleeding heart liberal agenda people like yourself....Its called 'common sense'. And common sense knows this is FN bycatch.
You know and I know and everyone knows without a doubt this is FN bycatch....come on....I know you're a left wing bleeding heart, Milo....but this is too much....even for you....even Ralph agrees that they are FN caught.
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Left wing bleeding heart liberal agenda people.... Damn that's a mouthful lol...
Again, the objective of this letter is not to stop First Nations' rights to fish, but rather to stop the practice of gill net fishing and call for better monitoring to ensure selective fishing methods are being employed.
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Rodney perhaps you can comment on this,
How come we are seeing such a dramatic change in pointing out these fisheries this year. In the past the message from these groups has been we need to work together, Pointing the finger will only cause more fishing to get shut down ect..
Their seems to be a big shift in tone this year...
The approach has changed because there is an urgency to save some poor steelhead now. Original approach hasn't worked for a year, so it's time to do something a bit different.
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Again, the objective of this letter is not to stop First Nations' rights to fish, but rather to stop the practice of gill net fishing and call for better monitoring to ensure selective fishing methods are being employed.
I do agree with you Rod, but the problem is that a single user group is the problem when it comes to wasted bycatch. Non FN Commercial gillnetters (as much as I despise them in the river too), would never get away with those young dead sturgeon. But with that said...if this can be used as a starting block to ban all gillnetting in the Fraser, then I'm all for it.
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You must be smoking the worst quality crack ever.
What I smoke is top class...carefully grown and harvested and then blended and aged, preferably in Cuba and/or Nicaragua.
I know you are a left-wing bleeding heart Milo
Left wing? Certainly! I take pride in it! :)
Bleeding heart? Nahh! Step on my toes and you'll see how much of a bleeding heart I am. ::)
FWIW, I know that this bycatch is most likely from an FN netting operation, but come on now, the damage done to the resource by FN nets is infinitesimally smaller than that inflicted by commercial fisheries championed by big business. Continuing with the blaming game and the "them" against "us" approach has gotten the poor resource nowhere.
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These fish should be the pride of our Provence and every effort should be made to preserve and restore the fishery, however I fear in the next 100 years salmon and steelhead will be all but extinct in BC. at least as long as the people with money are pulling the strings.
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What the hell is up with the personal attacks consistently on here lately? It makes things hard to read, and quite frankly, so much less is gleamed from the discussions. There used to be a lot of good, educational banter on here, with no hard feelings for differing opinion. It feels like this forum has been over-run with the next generation, and the entitlement that accompanies them.
Someone's differing opinion does not make it ok to attack them personally. If you have nothing constructive, or informational, to add to the discussion then stay out of it. Resorting to personal attacks, simply because you have no other way of venting your frustrations with an opinion you don't agree with, only makes your side of the argument weaker and less appealing.
My add on to this discussion is that unfortunately, sturgeon are not protected under SARA (because populations in the lower fraser are actually fairly stable or increasing). Therefore, gill net fishing will not stop because of them being caught in nets. The only way to get things moving on banning non selective fisheries in the Fraser is to list IFS steelhead and sturgeon under SARA. Unfortunately then, none of you will ever be fishing for anything in the river, ever again. At this point in time, you'll never actually stop FN net fishing. I believe the best course of action, is to likely petition for more independent observers for these fisheries to at least curtail the effects. OR, instead of fishing (or whining on a discussion forum in your free time), sit on the beach with a big camera lens at each netting location and take pics of everything. Short videos of the treatment of by-catch, etc. Pics of vehicles involved. Then email the associated bands, show them what you have, and tell them you'll gladly take things public unless things changed. No one wants bad PR. Maybe public backlash will do more than any federal regulations ever would.
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Milo how many days have you spent on the Fraser from Mission to Hope in the fall. Just curious to hear what your experience is besides sucking at bouncing peg leg and begging for boat rides at island 22 in August
Don't know what your issue is with me, AA. But your life must be horrendous if you allow yourself to obsess online over someone you don't know. ::)
FWIW, the Island 22 launch hasn't seen my big butt since the last sockeye C&R mortality study conducted in 2011, but you already know that, right? :P
Whatever bone it is that you have to pick with the world, better take it somewhere else because you are making a sad spectacle of yourself. Stop hiding behind a handle name, for that is what cowards and losers do and I'd like to think you are not one of them. Next time you see me on the river, man up and introduce yourself and let's discuss whatever issue you have right there, on the spot.
Failure to do so and continuing to write false and disparaging things about me and other people whose points of view you don't share (or, as is more often the case, misunderstand) only strengthens the rather unflattering opinion intelligent people have of you and your IQ.
Prove them wrong by actually contributing something useful to a discussion rather than wasting your energy trying to offend or ridicule people that make you feel inferior. ;)
Please Dan, leave Avid Angler's comments up. By deleting his horribly spelled petty personal attacks, you actually make him smarter. ;)
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Everyday for new moderator! ;D
What he said. It's ok for grown adults to have different opinions lol... You don't need to hate another person based on his/her POV. This is why I don't take what's said in these forums serious. I can't take what Ralph says seriously. Yeah some points are very good, but sorry, unfortunately most of the time he doesn't know what he's talking about... I'll continue to allocate my effort to meetings where differences are made.
Some positive changes are happening in the next few months since these reported incidents. I've spent a good chunk of my time in October dealing with this and it's finally making some progress so I'll be cautiously optimistic.
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my big butt
Agreed. Those Froggs Toggs waders are hardly slimming :)
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Everyday for new moderator! ;D
I second that...I thought he was a moderator already.Agreed. Those Froggs Toggs waders are hardly slimming :)
LOL clarki. ;D
With a butt the size of mine, not even Armani could design slimming waders for me. :-[
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Everyday for new moderator! ;D
What he said. It's ok for grown adults to have different opinions lol... You don't need to hate another person based on his/her POV. This is why I don't take what's said in these forums serious. I can't take what Ralph says seriously. Yeah some points certification of Fraser are very good, but sorry, unfortunately most of the time he doesn't know what he's talking about... I'll continue to allocate my effort to meetings where differences are made.
Some positive changes are happening in the next few months since these reported incidents. I've spent a good chunk of my time in October dealing with this and it's finally making some progress so I'll be cautiously optimistic.
What the hell does this have to do with me? You are almost invariably very good Rod on moderating and avoiding personal comments but I attacked no one in this thread least of all you. I made one post. Everything I brought in from Ocean Wise etc is on their websites. Issues with the certification have been brought up by other advocate groups. Everyone appreciates your efforts but you aren't necessarily 100% correct on all issues either.
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What the hell does this have to do with me? You are almost invariably very good Rod on moderating and avoiding personal comments but I attacked no one in this thread least of all you. I made one post. Everything I brought in from Ocean Wise etc is on their websites. Issues with the certification have been brought up by other advocate groups. Everyone appreciates your efforts but you aren't necessarily 100% correct on all issues either.
I think he was just giving a blanket statement, and using you as an example, since there seems to be a common theme of people going after you lately as well for your mostly odd replies and differing opinions.
Like him, I often find your replies ridiculous (and I know I've said that before), but like Rodney, I'd never attack you on a personal level. If I can't discuss back with countering facts, I'll simply leave the discussion alone. Then there are the other times where nothing you can say will be accepted, even if correct. I've had to learn to walk away from those ones too, as its not worth the time.
Anyway, that's great to hear Rodney! I look forward to actually/hopefully seeing changes next year!
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I find many of the 'opinions' expressed on this website ridiculous and sometimes offensive. However I don't own this clown show and I don't put up the shekels to keep it operating.
Cheers.
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Thank you Rodney for all your hard work trying to make positive changes for our fisheries.
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What the hell is up with the personal attacks consistently on here lately? It makes things hard to read, and quite frankly, so much less is gleamed from the discussions. There used to be a lot of good, educational banter on here, with no hard feelings for differing opinion. It feels like this forum has been over-run with the next generation, and the entitlement that accompanies them.
Dan is so right.
Why I rarely post here anymore
Some folks on here know what they're talking about, do it the way it should be done, stay informed on ALL levels or least try to become educated.
Then there are those who obviously don't fish enough, think they know everything and spout off angry uninformed posts trying to stir a pot.
Ignorance is bliss therefore: there's a lot happy people out there.
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I'm glad I quit moderating the 2 forums I did. It was annoying.
What used to irk me was the odd fellow who would vigorously research everything and reply to a comment with all the data possible and try to be right everytime. It was not very pleasant to take part in a discussion when someone was doing that. Kind of reminds me of one fellow on this forum who I will not name. It's ok to be wrong sometimes. That's another way to learn.
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I'm glad I quit moderating the 2 forums I did. It was annoying.
What used to irk me was the odd fellow who would vigorously research everything and reply to a comment with all the data possible and try to be right everytime. It was not very pleasant to take part in a discussion when someone was doing that. Kind of reminds me of one fellow on this forum who I will not name. It's ok to be wrong sometimes. That's another way to learn.
Just imagine being married to a fellow who is always right