Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zaphod on August 31, 2004, 09:28:08 AM
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I caught what I think is a Kokanee (I'm not good at identifying fish) from Buntzen Lake. Does anyone know if there are a lot of Kokanee in that lake?
Also, I've read that Kokanee are a special kind of land-locked salmon. Is this true? If so, does one need a salmon stamp to catch and retain them?
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Kokanee are sockeye salmon that don't go to the ocean. They don't have much spots on their bodies.
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Probably a cuttie or rainbow. I have not heard of Kokanee in Buntzen. Kokanee is a landlocked Sockeye salmon. They do not grow as big because they dom not have the big food source. Check your regs before you go out and it will tell you what species are present in the water. Cutties have a red slash down by their neck. Rainbows have a distinct "rainbow" down the centre line on their side and Kokanee are very Silver and no spots.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fish_profiles.html
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You bet there are kokanee in Buntzen. Numbers are not that great as they don't stock it with them. I catch them from time to time but the size is small, biggest I caught was around 11 inches. You can tell they are kokanee by their big eyes and thin silver bodies with small scales. The most I have caught in one day was 3.
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Stocked with Rainbows and Cutties.
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What I caught looked *exactly* like the bottom fish in the picture at this URL:
http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/PicturesSummary.cfm?StartRow=4&ID=243&what=species
According to the site's author, this is a Kokanee. Do you guys agree?
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Also, about stocking -- do any of you know or know of a resource where I could find out what hatchery trout are fed in the hatchery before they're released?
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That looks like a kokanee. The scales are real small, and the body has few black spots.
Did you keep the fish? The inside is a nice neon red colour too.
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To find out stocking dates, stocking numbers and food information, visit Fraser Valley Trout Hatchery (http://www.gofishbc.com/culture_portal/hatcheries.htm#fraser_valley) and give them a phone call.
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Koho,
You scared the heck out of me! I thought they were going to jump out of the screen and eat me ;D
Those are great pics of clean kokanee. Notice the lack of spots and the distinct blue tinge on the back.
Zaphod,
Those are Kokanee, but they are about to spawn as they have gone dark and are starting to turn red.
A great spot to see Kokanee is in Antler Creek if you get to Peachland in Aug/Sept.
There are kokanee in Coquitlam Lake and I understand that the fisheries biologists think that they may be land locked
Sockeye from when the dam was put on the Coquitlam R. There has been some talk of trying to use them to reintroduce
a Sockeye run to the Coquitlam R. Apparently, the Coquitlam R. used to have one of the most prolific Sockeye runs in the
province at the turn of the 19th century. That's you history lesson for today.
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Here's a pic of a couple of Kokes I caught this summer. Sorry the image is too big, but you'll be able to see the detail up close (I've got real bad imaging software, will try to make the image smaller...)
<edit 1: erased first post before grummans and put new post after>
<edit 2: made the picture to fit the screen ;D>
(http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP6074.jpg)
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Fantastic information. Thanks.
Yes, I did keep the fish. I'm now looking for good recipies for Kokanee. Any suggestions? Should any good recipe for salmon also work great for Kokanee?
Also, I'm still wondering if a salmon stamp is necessary to retain Kokanee. Does anyone know?
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Also, about stocking -- do any of you know or know of a resource where I could find out what hatchery trout are fed in the hatchery before they're released?
Google for "Fish Wizard"
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Well, I went to FishWizard, and there is all sorts of great information there about the lake, but no information (that I can find) about how the fish are fed before they're released. I'm just curious to know what I'm eating if I catch one. :)
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Looks like that fish was caught in New Zealand.
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OK, so I guess mine didn't look *exactly* like the one in the photo from New Zealand. :)
Pretty close tho.
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You dont need a Salmon stamp to retain Kokanee. Great smoked. I like to get them out of Nicola lake for the 'lil chief.
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Thanks. What do you use to catch them?
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I like them grilled and smoked. You can grill them just like a trout.
I smoked up the 2 that were in the previous pic. Just filet and open them up like so. Real nice neon orange/red meat just like a sock. Real tasty!
(http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP6075.jpg)
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Wedding rings tipped with worm, maggot or corn behind a gang troll or dodger is the ticket. Downriggers would help too.
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Ah!!! Naked fish!
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Zaphod,
I was wondering if the koke you caught was a chromer or was starting to colour up for spawning. I haven't caught a koke this time of year yet. I caught mine around June.
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Those look ready for a cedar plank :-*
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Mine was silver/chrome in colour.
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You know, I just realized something -- the meat of my fish isn't reddish, it's white in colour.
But on the outside, it really looks a lot like the picture whose URL I posted earlier. Could this be a mountain whitefish?
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Mountain whitefish:
(http://www.fishbase.org/images/Prwil_u0.jpg)
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It looked more like the Kokanee picture than that (damn, I wish I had taken a picture before cleaning it!).
If a fish's flesh is not reddish in colour, does that automatically rule it out as a kokanee?
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I don't know. All the kokes I've caught are red fleshed. But I haven't fished them in Buntzen Lake before. ???
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Yeah.. I'm confused. Of course, I don't know much about fish identification. I've looked at lots of pics of both Kokanee and Mountain Whitefish, and on the outside, my fish looked much more like Kokanee than Mountain Whitefish, but it has white flesh. Very strange.
Oh well. Next one I catch, I'm going to photograph and properly identify.
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White flesh=no Kokanee. Unless you scarred the bejesus out of it ;D
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Thanks. I think I'm going to conclude, then, that I have a Mountain Whitefish. The only strange thing about that is that this species is not listed anywhere (that I can find) as occurring in Buntzen Lake. I don't think it's a trout -- it had absolutely no spots on it at all. Also, it had no teeth.
Has anyone ever caught a Mountain Whitefish in Buntzen Lake?
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Or, could it possibly be....
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fish_profile/northern_pikeminnow.html
;)
Just did a search on Fish Wizard. Species in Buntzen include:
Trout, Cutthroat Trout (Anadromous), Kokanee, Largescale Sucker, Northern Pikeminnow (formerly N. Squawfish), Peamouth Chub, Prickly Sculpin, Rainbow Trout, Redside Shiner, Sucker (General), Threespine Stickleback
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Maybe the food source isn't that rich in the lake, or there's not enough shrimp to give it the deep red colour.
Other posters have mentioned that the kokes barely reach 12" long in Buntzen. I've caught some fair sized kokanees in other lakes up to 17" or so. These are lakes with a rich food source. It even gets to the point that we release the shakers. :) So maybe their diet is lacking there.
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Or, could it possibly be....
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fish_profile/northern_pikeminnow.html
;)
Just did a search on Fish Wizard. Species in Buntzen include:
Trout, Cutthroat Trout (Anadromous), Kokanee, Largescale Sucker, Northern Pikeminnow (formerly N. Squawfish), Peamouth Chub, Prickly Sculpin, Rainbow Trout, Redside Shiner, Sucker (General), Threespine Stickleback
So did your fish have an adipose fin? If not, then it could be the pikeminnow.
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I think we have a winner.
The fish did not have an adipose fin, and having checked out a few other pikeminnow images online, I'm quite sure this is what I caught.
I am disappointed to find that they don't make good eating.
Just how bad is bad? Has anyone here eaten one?
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;D
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Is that a ;D because they're tasty, or a ;D that means "try and see"? :)
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;D for finally finding out what the fish was.
I haven't tried it myself, heard they are bony. :)
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Yeah, I'm very happy to finally know. Thanks to both you and Rod!
Learning to identify fish is a skill unto itself, and I think it's important to learn because of the regs and quotas and such. Thanks again.
Has anyone else here ever eaten one of these?
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You're welcome. Identifying fish is always part of the fishing fun. :)
Not the best tasting fish as bones are plentiful. They are consumed by a lot of Asian anglers at this end as we don't usually mind the bones (picking them out that is).
FYI: For the minnow species (the ones that lack the adipose fin), except the endangered protected ones, the daily quota is 20 fish.
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20 fish.. thanks. That's good to know as I didn't think there was an upper limit for these. I mustn't have paid close enough attention to the regs when I read them.
So the big complaint about eating these fish is the bones? Can I take that to mean that the meat itself isn't all that bad? (At least passably edible?)
I haven't been able to find a single recipe for these anywhere, so that makes me suspicious. :)
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Yes, bones are the biggest complaint. We are generally pretty spoiled here as we have plenty of bigger, tastier fish to go for. Fish such as these would be sought after heavily in parts of Asia.
Grill, pan fry, soup are all good... Just be very careful with the bones, they are thin, but not thin enough to become crusty when cooked for a long time.
As for daily quota of fish, if they are not listed in the book, it's usually 20 fish unless it is classified as an endangered species.
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I'm very glad you mentioned that. I thought it was unlimited unless otherwise specified.
By the way, fantastic website. This is my first season fishing (ever) and I've gone to knowing absolutely nothing about it to being able to catch fish (although not exactly a prized fish, but fish nonetheless) in a relatively short time, mainly thanks to the information and people on this site.
I can also see how this can get very addictive. :)
Great job!
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Also, supposing a person is going to fry this meat, should it be done fast, over a high heat, like trout?
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A friend of mine (Asian) served me up some pikeminnow once. Taste was a bit "fishy", as in maybe not the freshest, and there were a lot of bones, but I'm still here, no serious side effects! ;D
Oh, he made it into soup, not fried. Hope that helps.
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So your kokanee is a squaw fish eh. My brother made the same mistake once. The flesh of those kokanee in buntzen are orange colour but not bright red like the one in the picture probobly as a result of the food.
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Yeah, I'm very happy to finally know. Thanks to both you and Rod!
Learning to identify fish is a skill unto itself, and I think it's important to learn because of the regs and quotas and such. Thanks again.
No problem. Learning to ID a fish is challenging, but part of the fun in fishing. Like we saw, checking for the adipose fin is a good way to start to ID your fish.
BTW, how did you catch the fish? From shore or boat, and what lure or bait did you use?
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It was caught from shore. I used a small brass lucky strike spinner with a #4 barbless hook, and I tied a little bit of shrimp to the hook.
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I know that buntzen has billions of white fish some times. But they are usually very small. Also, since buntzen is connected to coquitlam lake, I would think that kokanee could get in that way if they do not spawn in the creeks.
Jon
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Hey Zaphod I am glad to hear you are enjoying your new hobby of fishing.Be careful it can be very addictive.I realize that there are lots of rules and regs and the learning curve is pretty steep but at the same time I think perhaps you should release fish if you can not I.D. them.I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything but I am quite surprised that I have read through 4 pages of responses to your post and nobody has mentioned this to you yet.I see you did some homework on this fishery by checking limits and species available in this lake etc. but when you start trying other techniques and species (such as salmon and steelhead) it is imparative you be able to identify fish before they are dispatched.Again I am just trying to be helpful. I know, I killed a non-hatchery coho in the Harrison my first year fishing and I still feel bad about it.Good luck and I hope to see you at the cleanup on the Vedder next month or on the water sometime. Tight lines, Todd
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If you're after pikeminnows - get up to Cultus Lake and get as many as you can - millions of them up there all feasting on the efforts of the Sockeye >:(. On a boat or off shore its no problem catching them. Float and worm or worm on the bottom, spinners or try gangtrolls off boat.
Eat all you want. ;)
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Jonny 5 - I thought for awhile that I had a whitefish, but I don't think the scales were big enough to be a whitefish, and the lack of adipose fin ruled it out. I'm a bit disappointed, but I understand that whitefish would have been better eating. :)
Lowtech - Thanks for the tip. For some strange reason, I thought that what I had was trout. In any case, good thing I learned the lesson with a fish that isn't an endangered species. I'm fishing with barbless hooks so anything I can't ID from now on can be safely and quickly returned to the water.
Rieber - I'll keep it in mind. I don't know if I want more pikeminnows though. :) It was fun to catch, though, and put up one hell of a fight for its size.