Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: bbronswyk2000 on October 12, 2005, 02:14:25 PM
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Just want to mention something about posting fishing reports. I have been doing a bit of research and have been noticing that the pressure on certain systems are getting ridiculous. I have a feeling its from more people being online and looking at the fishing reports from the various sites. My suggestion is that people don't name the smaller systems when posting a report. If you want to make a report that awesome but I suggest you keep the name to yourself.
example:
Last year this time I would fish a certain system and arrive just before firstlight and have the place to myself. This year I went to the same spot and their were already 3 cars waiting for this small spot. Vedder reports are fine since EVERYONE knows this river inside and out. Smaller systems that don't have the access that the Vedder does doesn't need the pressure. I may sound like I am being greedy but if people put in the time they can find these spots without reading about it on these forums. This is just a suggestion as I cant force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. I would rather fish alone or with 1 maybe 2 people but not standing side by side with 20 people in a tight spot.
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I agree and if you really want to know a spot pm him and im sure he will tell you.
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Well ya, look what happened to Peg Leg.
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v
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Well ya, look what happened to Peg Leg.
'Cause before the internet no one ever fished there ;D
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Last time I checked, FWR made Peg Leg and KWB. ;)
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LOL
And of course the massive expansion in housing and people moving to BC from other places has nothing to do with it, right? Have you noticed all the new homes in the Valley? Have you thought maybe it was just a direct result of more people and nothing to do with the web? What about tackle shops simply talking to MORE people? And what about all the extra traffic on the roads/hwys - are they crowded because of something on the web as well. I believe the population has almost double in the past 20 years in some lower mainland urban areas...that seems a more logical reason for having more people on lower mainland rivers - not the internet.
Also I'm curious as well, what methodology and blind tests did you conduct in your survey/analysis to reach this conclusion? (apart from one morning in a parking lot). Did you ask those people how they new about your secret spot?
Do you just like to cause problems? Infact I have asked and about 80% of the people I asked said they read reports over the net.Of course the population in the Valley is growing but not enough to double the pressure in one calendar year. Look at the sign up rates on the various forums and you will see how big these forums are becoming. I never post about where I am fishing unless its a place that everyone knows about.
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I did ask those people and it wasnt a parking lot but they all told me that they found the information from a website.
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I think its been proven before its better its better to just keep ideas to yourself when it comes to telling people what to do. No one likes being told what to do and how to do it.
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Do you just like to cause problems? Infact I have asked and about 80% of the people I asked said they read reports over the net.Of course the population in the Valley is growing but not enough to double the pressure in one calendar year. Look at the sign up rates on the various forums and you will see how big these forums are becoming. I never post about where I am fishing unless its a place that everyone knows about.
Is it possible that Dennis has a different point of view than you? ::) Apparently when you don't agree with someone, you can post freely to express your points because it is a public forum. However, when someone else believes there are flaws in your arguments or does not like your views, he or she is simply causing trouble and being immature?
Fishing pressure in the valley doubled in one calendar year.
So when did this doubling first begin? 10 years ago? Assuming there were 10,000 people fishing in the valley ten years ago, at this rate, there are... over 10 million people fishing in the valley this year... ;D :o
80% of the people I asked said they read reports over the net.
What is your sample size? Is the sample size large enough to minimize the margain of error so your 80% is a good representation of the valley angling population?
Look at the sign up rates on the various forums and you will see how big these forums are becoming.
1240 members since the re-establishment of this forum in August 2003. ;)
Has anyone make a comparative study between creel survey results/annual licence sales and number of fishing reports posted here/number of views?
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I think thats check and mate. ;D
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I think its been proven before its better its better to just keep ideas to yourself when it comes to telling people what to do. No one likes being told what to do and how to do it.
Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I even said I cant TELL people not to but that its mearly a suggestion. Someone can't come on here and make suggestions without being attacked? People cant explore places anymore and have to rely on other peoples reports? People sure are becoming lazier by the minute aren't they.
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I think its been proven before its better its better to just keep ideas to yourself when it comes to telling people what to do. No one likes being told what to do and how to do it.
Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I even said I cant TELL people not to but that its mearly a suggestion. Someone can't come on here and make suggestions without being attacked? People cant explore places anymore and have to rely on other peoples reports? People sure are becoming lazier by the minute aren't they.
Mind your punctuation Eddie: People sure are becoming lazier by the minute, aren't they?
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Do you just like to cause problems? Infact I have asked and about 80% of the people I asked said they read reports over the net.Of course the population in the Valley is growing but not enough to double the pressure in one calendar year. Look at the sign up rates on the various forums and you will see how big these forums are becoming. I never post about where I am fishing unless its a place that everyone knows about. Maybe you like fishing in big crowds or maybe you just don't know any good spots other than the ones posted on the net and thats the reason you have to continually argue with everyone. Like when you belittle a 14 year old on the forum instead of sending him a PM and explaining to him what he has done wrong.
Is it possible that Dennis has a different point of view than you? ::) Apparently when you don't agree with someone, you can post freely to express your points because it is a public forum. However, when someone else believes there are flaws in your arguments or does not like your views, he or she is simply causing trouble and being immature?
Fishing pressure in the valley doubled in one calendar year.
So when did this doubling first begin? 10 years ago? Assuming there were 10,000 people fishing in the valley ten years ago, at this rate, there are... over 10 million people fishing in the valley this year... ;D :o
80% of the people I asked said they read reports over the net.
What is your sample size? Is the sample size large enough to minimize the margain of error so your 80% is a good representation of the valley angling population?
Look at the sign up rates on the various forums and you will see how big these forums are becoming.
1240 members since the re-establishment of this forum in August 2003. ;)
Has anyone make a comparative study between creel survey results/annual licence sales and number of fishing reports posted here/number of views?
Its not a conclusive study as its still in the works. Go look at FishBC's membership and its up a ton as well. Thats just members not too mention how many lurkers their are in which thier are probably a ton. I am not basing it soley on forums and the internet allot is also word of mouth, tackle shops etc but these forums have had a HUGE impact on the pressure of these rivers.
As far as Dennis goes from reading allot of his posts he seems to want to argue with everyone. I dont pick on people that dont start something with me first. He has already tried to pick on something before and if this was the first time I probably would not have reacted the way i did. I always give someone a first chance but if I see a pattern than it becomes clear to me on how someone acts.
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The word HUGE is subjective, it's not scientific. Until numerical, graphical analyses of the overall angling participation, internet usage and Lower Mainland population growth in the past decade are provided, the claims are pretty worthless IMO.
If exploration is an element in your fishing outing, go north.
As far as Dennis goes from reading allot of his posts he seems to want to argue with everyone. I dont pick on people that dont start something with me first. He has already tried to pick on something before and if this was the first time I probably would not have reacted the way i did. I always give someone a first chance but if I see a pattern than it becomes clear to me on how someone acts.
Huh? It takes two to tangle. I recall over the weekend, it was you who decided to confront him after he expressed his view on Fish BC. Not too sure who made you the spokesperson of Fish BC, but his comments would have been taken care of by the moderators on this site once viewed by us. His original reply in this thread picks apart your claims by pointing out flaws developed from too many assumptions. If anyone who took the interaction to a personal level, it was you.
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The word HUGE is subjective, it's not scientific. Until numerical, graphical analyses of the overall angling participation, internet usage and Lower Mainland population growth in the past decade are provided, the claims are pretty worthless IMO.
If exploration is an element in your fishing outing, go north.
As far as Dennis goes from reading allot of his posts he seems to want to argue with everyone. I dont pick on people that dont start something with me first. He has already tried to pick on something before and if this was the first time I probably would not have reacted the way i did. I always give someone a first chance but if I see a pattern than it becomes clear to me on how someone acts.
Huh? It takes two to tangle. I recall over the weekend, it was you who decided to confront him after he expressed his view on Fish BC. Not too sure who made you the spokesperson of Fish BC, but his comments would have been taken care of by the moderators on this site once viewed by us. His original reply in this thread picks apart your claims by pointing out flaws developed from too many assumptions. If anyone who took the interaction to a personal level, it was you.
Sure they are subjective your right in that statement. I dont have the time to go to every river in the LM to do that type of research but if people didnt post about those smaller sytems it would help, no? It certainly wouldnt hurt now would it.
His post about FishBC was uncalled for. I dont go to other forums and bash other forums as its really immature. Every forum has good advice in some respect. I have allot of friends on FishBC so he not only insulted me for being a subscriber but he insulted 6000 members. I would just like to forget about that guy and focus on the original post.
My post I guess is more of a THEORY than hard facts. Maybe I should have put some more thought into the wording of the post instead.
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I would like you to point out a thread in this fishing report board that mentions these "small systems" in the past few months.
His post about FishBC was uncalled for...
As Dragonspeed has already told you before, let the moderators handle it. No need to toss fuel on fire.
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I would like you to point out a thread in this fishing report board that mentions these "small systems" in the past few months.
His post about FishBC was uncalled for...
As Dragonspeed has already told you before, let the moderators handle it. No need to toss fuel on fire.
A person cant stand up for himself and his friends? I am sorry but I always stand up for my friends/family its in my nature. The coho season is just getting started and already people are all over the Stave River like a wet t-shirt. Just you wait as we well see it coming as the season heats up. Last year on Fish BC SEVERAL small systems were mentioned and the ones near where I live that I could walk down to and not see one single person changed for the worse after that. I am just making people aware that if they dont want the pressure on their honey holes that they keep it to themselves. I am not going to mention these sytems as I dont want it to happen again. I will mention the Stave because allot of people already know about it. The Stave does not have allot of shore to fish from. Now with more and more people talking about it, well its going to end up a zoo before November.
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So if membership number and growth are bigger on FishBC, why aren't you putting these concerns on there? ;) Especially since these "small systems" were mentioned there last year. Again I ask you, point out a post in this fishing report section that mentions these "small systems".
Nothing wrong with standing up for your friends and family. Next time, stand up by reporting the post to the moderators instead. ::)
So tell me if this makes sense to you... ;)
You are telling people about the Stave because people already know about it, yet the Stave doesn't have a lot of shore access so as more and more people talk about it, it'll end up a zoo in November...
Why are you talking about it then, aren't you part of the problem? ??? ;D
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So if membership number and growth are bigger on FishBC, why aren't you putting these concerns on there? ;) Especially since these "small systems" were mentioned there last year. Again I ask you, point out a post in this fishing report section that mentions these "small systems".
Nothing wrong with standing up for your friends and family. Next time, stand up by reporting the post to the moderators instead. ::)
So tell me if this makes sense to you... ;)
You are telling people about the Stave because people already know about it, yet the Stave doesn't have a lot of shore access so as more and more people talk about it, it'll end up a zoo in November...
Why are you talking about it then, aren't you part of the problem? ??? ;D
I am not a part of the problem I am only 10mins from it.You wanted an example so thats what I did, without naming exact locations on the river.......... Here is a good example of how I see it. If I were to travel 60miles to fish a small system for salmon that I heard about on the net I would feel that would be wrong. I cant stop people from doing it but atleast I might be able to stop 5-10 people from posting about small systems, and that enough is making a difference.
Last year I did mention it on FishBC and made a HUGE stink about it.
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That's true! Eddie makes a big stink all the time! ;D
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Eddie, I do not want to pick on you by any means, believe me.
I would like to point out to you and others however, that the Stave River fishery has completely been built up by artificial(hatchery enhanced means)to supply the sport fisherman with sport fish to fish for. This system particularly has been concentrated on over the past decade by Fisheries in order to take pressure off of the other over fished systems.
Sure there is the odd wild fish that enter the Stave for gill cleaning or other reasons, but by most part this system is considered by Fisheries to be a completely enhanced Fishery.
To suggest that people all of a sudden are fishing the Stave because of posts on forums may be partially true, but in ways this is a good thing because that is exactly what is intended to happen by the augmentation of this system.
Another common way of people learning of river's fish return numbers is to visit the Fishery web sites to see the hatchery smolt release and expected return numbers. Anyone looking up this info can simply see that the Stave River has been focused on seriously over the past decade by means of hatchery enhancement. Therefor attracting a higher number of fishermen/women, and families enjoying the park, trails, dog walking areas,fishing opportunities, etc...
I believe you do have a very legitimate comment on the increasing pressures of our local smaller rivers. However, fishermen will always have that desire to fish new water, and find quieter areas. I am not one for posting info on smaller systems myself, and I do not believe most people are not either, but you should not be surprised when it happens.
I do know where you are comming from, and I understand your concerns.
The reality is, like Rod suggested, I believe, up North is your best bet these days for a quieter system. Even up North has probably seen an increase in angling pressure by at least 50% over the past 6-8 years.
Keep in mind you are on a forum, and try not to be offended when others reply to your comments. Not everybody sees eye to eye on everything.
Take care.
ATS.
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I am not a part of the problem I am only 10mins from it.You wanted an example so thats what I did, without naming exact locations on the river.......... Here is a good example of how I see it. If I were to travel 60miles to fish a small system for salmon that I heard about on the net I would feel that would be wrong. I cant stop people from doing it but atleast I might be able to stop 5-10 people from posting about small systems, and that enough is making a difference.
The driving distance from your house to the Stave is not the problem. I was simply trying to figure out what your point is when...
You are telling people about the Stave because people already know about it, yet the Stave doesn't have a lot of shore access so as more and more people talk about it, it'll end up a zoo in November...
It's a contradiction.
So you read about a new river on the net, you do not go fish it? Is it different if you read about it in a travelling brochure or book? What if someone tells you about this small system that he or she has had fishing success at? How would that person feel if you start fishing it? Does he or she see you as part of "the problem"?
Last year I did mention it on FishBC and made a HUGE stink about it.
Post it again, since participation has doubled since last year, you should be able to make a bigger stink about it. ;)
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Addicted to Steel your comments have been the most helpful so far in this thread, thanks for the information.
Jon Bigbooty, your damn straight!! ;)
Rod if someone posted about a small system and their success in catching salmon I would leave it alone and thats the honest truth.
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well said! and yes..... small systems should be protected from the internet. they are fragile and 99% of the time contain wild fish anyway. post your results but not name the river/lake or stream. many do on this forum and that is just fine.
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Rod if someone posted about a small system and their success in catching salmon I would leave it alone and thats the honest truth.
You're selectively reading my replies. ;)
I'm still waiting for you:
- to point out a thread in this fishing report board that mentions these "small systems" in the past few months,
- to tell us if your action would be different if the information of the small streams are obtained from word of mouth, books or travelling brochures.
Your concerns of small sensitive streams are valid. I have similar concerns. What I find it troubling was why on earth would you bring up this when there isn't a concern after all? If FWR forum is generating tremendous amount of, or any, pressure on small sensitive streams, then this thread may have some ground to stand on. I would be more worried about poaching that goes on at night at these streams.
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Rod if someone posted about a small system and their success in catching salmon I would leave it alone and thats the honest truth.
You're selectively reading my replies. ;)
I'm still waiting for you:
- to point out a thread in this fishing report board that mentions these "small systems" in the past few months,
- to tell us if your action would be different if the information of the small streams are obtained from word of mouth, books or travelling brochures.
Your concerns of small sensitive streams are valid. I have similar concerns. What I find it troubling was why on earth would you bring up this when there isn't a concern after all? If FWR forum is generating tremendous amount of, or any, pressure on small sensitive streams, then this thread may have some ground to stand on. I would be more worried about poaching that goes on at night at these streams.
PM sent
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No reply??
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I just had dinner, there is a life beyond here, you know? ::) ;)
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I just had dinner, there is a life beyond here, you know? ::) ;)
I made homemade lasagna for my family and it was healthy and great.
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Actually, for the population growth that's happenning, it is actually amazing that the rivers are not more crowded than they are.
The internet does make it efficient to spread the information. But if people really like to fish they would find information anyway.
eddie, be thankful that a lot of the people that are moving to BC Lower Mainland are more focus on life's essential things like making a living instead of recreation.
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hockey game's on.
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hockey game's on.
Ya watching it....Wild scored on a penalty shot its 4-0 :(
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Well..in this case..I would have to add my 2 cents worth.
If someone believes they have something to report that will be beneficial to others out on the river or the ocean, that is perfectly acceptable. However, if there is a conservation concern, in that event, I would recommend that people probably manage their posting selectively.
For example, you have seen me stand on top of the mountain yapping out the mouth of the Cap this and the mouth of the Cap that, and Ambleside this and Ambleside that...and the fact of the matter is, whether its 40 boats, 50 boats, or 100 boats, I usually end up producing a similar type result...CATCHING FISH!
However, in the event that I ran across a certain area that was RED HOT I would likely post, but selectively make those notations in the POST if I wished my success to continue and the opportunity to fish the area again in a similar fashion that would be compromised by substantial angling pressure.
SO, the long and short of it is...THIS.
1. if you are fishing a small river or areas where you believe that blabbing it all over the net would adversely affect your success or the stock being fished then keep it to yourself otherwise fully expect it not to be "empty" next time you show up.
2. Professional Guides don't share all their secrets, but for the most part, they do just fine sharing many of their details.
3. Use your own best judgement in being a steward of the resource by being selective in the information you dole out.
4. Out of good sportsmanship..or whatever the politically correct term is, do share information with inquiring anglers, and help others catch fish but do not mislead others.
I can attest that the reports being published by myself and by all local saltwater guides have been accurate and true, and with a little know how, I honestly believe that EVERYONE has equal opportunity on ANY RIVER or the OCEAN to seek out the knowledge they desire and deserve with effort to produce the results they want...unless you happened to be a certain know it all...about the Cap River....lol...
Overall, the long and short of it is, if you had some phenominal success fishing a particular spot, on the Vedder, some creek or stream or slough or in the chuck, and you BLAB it all over the place, fully expect there to be someone else fishing "your spot". On the other hand, in the event that "priviledged" information becomes known to "you" then please please please respect that information and guard it out of consideration of those that shared the information with you.
Notice that some people won't tell you what depth of water they were fishing, how long their leader was, what tacts they take, what time of day, or what tide or whatever. Share your information selectively, and it is your responsibility to be sporting yet remain a steward of the relationship at the same time.
Use your best judgement..that's all.
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Here's my take on everything i've read so far:
The small stream i fish has been effected by post on internet forums. The originator has been talked to and hopefully wont do it again. Rarely do i read posts here or FishBC (the places i browse) about small streams, when teh stream is named. But it does happen, and it does have an effect. Maybe Eddie's numbers and facts arent completely in line, but these forums do have a direct relation to ppl that fish the rivers. Of course there are other aspects that increase the rivers usage but eddie is just trying to stop or slow down one form of it.
I personally rarely keep fish unless fishing one of the Enhanced systems. I take pictures. and when i take pictures i am careful not to inclued too much background as to give away my spot or river.
Dennis: I work at a tackle shop. You will never here me tallk about a small system or suggesting that a customer goes there. Most ppl who work at tackle shops are educated enough to understand the effects their own suggestions would have on the survival of the river.
Eddie: You seem to get your hair up easily. there is no hints of a personal attack in Dennis' fisrt post. Like others have said this is a discussion forum,not everyone will see eye to eye. And as for previous history of deninis being a problem. You seem to always look into the past. I have been scrolling these forums for a while (fishBC longer than FWR) and i have had lots of disagreements with others but i never hold that against them. Just let it go.
the real question is, will minnesota play Fernadez or Roloston on friday??? ;D
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Roloson got the shutout so its got to be Roloson. She stopped all 34 shots he faced. Did you get that spool for me yet?
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ordered it. it was back ordered. i'll try again.
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I have to apologize as I do tend to get a bit heated but you have to expect that from a dutchman LOL. I am just very passionate in everything I do or take on. Sometimes I get the better of myself so if I go on a rampage please just let me know in a calm manner and I will calm down.