Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Wool Bandit on September 06, 2005, 05:45:21 PM
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This place is absolutely disgusting! Dosen't anyone clean their fish in the water anymore? The amount of fish guts strewn up and down the bank was gross. And the garbage situation; this really blew my mind! I was there about a week and a half ago and there was no garbage to be found. ( pre sockeye opening) On sunday it looked like a garbage dump! What is wrong with the sockeye crowd? I can't wait untill this disgusting display of ethics ( sockeye fishery ), is permanently closed! Who knows, if we all have to buy our sockeye maybe the commercial guys will get their jobs back. I would really like to see this fishery closed, or at least have it turned into a "food fishery". Say 10 sockeye and you are done for the year. I love eating sockeye just as much as the next guy, but alot of the stuff that goes on during these openings has to stop! The next thing you know these sockeye freaks are going to start taking up space in other river fisheries. They seem to have taken over the Vedder already. What these heathens are doing killing white springs the color of gum boots I will probably never understand. And why peolple have to use such outrageous line strenghs is another thing that goes right over my head. You should all see what I can do with 8lb test leader! If these people show up during our steelhead fisheries, watchout, I'm going to stop it. Well thats my rant for the day. ;D
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Sure enjoyed fishing two weeks ago before all the people were out, it was actually relaxing to go out on the fraser and fish.
Then anyone that has anything that floats is on the Fraser making a mess, not to mention the guys that think they own the river in the jet boats, not all but alot of them, looks good on the guy who ran up on a bar above the mouth of the Vedder, "who is the cool dude now"
Slow down.............
Pick up your gargage...........
to the sports fishers up at peg leg with the truck in the water up to the windows. don't drive on the river bed, even one of the admin guys on here put his vehicle in the water.. looks good on you.
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I believe its not the "sockeye fishing people" but more or less the mass of people. Look at Vedder. It's a mess too.
It's just that other places doesn't accumulate that number of people as of Pegleg or Pipeline bars.
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I believe its not the "sockeye fishermen" but more or less the mass of people. Look at the Vedder, It's a mess too.
It's just that other places don't accumulate that same number of people like Pegleg and Pipeline bars do.
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The jet boat thing is someting else that is driving me crazy. I started bottom flossing in 1995 and actually enjoyed it. I remember when a busy day at Landstrom Bar was a dozen people and 90% of them were from Hope. Things just got exponentionally worse from there, look at what kind of a gong show the Fraser has turned into. In 1997 I was sick of the crowds and bought a jet boat. My jet hasn't seen water for three sockeye seasons now! A lot of the prime bars are worse than the walk in spots! Can anyone else remember when Spaghetti wasn't such a show. It used to be the furthest bar anyone would run too. Then it was Spring island, now there isn't much above that and everybody is screwed, especially the guides. It's no wonder that I quit guiding locally! Don't even get me started on the pressure our poor sturgeon population is suffering. A busy day in Mission used to be 6 - 8 boats, and everyone knew each other. Last year I counted 47 boats from the Mission bridge to the mouth of Nicomen Slough. That is sick! And the amount of so called "guides" that now ply the Fraser is something that blows my mind! It seems that you automatically receive a guide license when you purchase a new jet boat. It sure is going to be funny when these so called "guides" can't catch bottom fish anymore and they actually have to make salmon bite! I estimate 90% of these bozos are going to be out of work. At least when this finally does happen the Fraser will resemble it's former self. Oh yeah one more thing, anyone that would guide their clients at a place such as Peg Leg, ( Minto Channel in guide talk ) should be ashamed of themselves!
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As a sox meat fisherman and a vedder sports fisherman i take offence to that type of ranting. Just because you dont agree with the flossing dosent make you any better of a person. Also the if you can land a 30-45 pound spring in the vedder without lossing it and not playing it for hours making everyone eles stand around waiting for you then your my hero. I like to catch my fish and keep them if liek you say they arent complete boots or take a pic even if they are so i allways go safe and use a 20-25 pound leader. I think people would apreciate it more if you hook your fish dont play it for hours trying to make sure your 8 pound leader dosent snap take your pics or take your fish so every can get on with the fishing. I dont understand why some people feel as if they need to be telling others how to fish all the time sad how i never hear this on the river allways on the forums.
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As a sox meat fisherman and a vedder sports fisherman i take offence to that type of ranting. Just because you dont agree with the flossing dosent make you any better of a person. Also the if you can land a 30-45 pound spring in the vedder without lossing it and not playing it for hours making everyone eles stand around waiting for you then your my hero. I like to catch my fish and keep them if liek you say they arent complete boots or take a pic even if they are so i allways go safe and use a 20-25 pound leader. I think people would apreciate it more if you hook your fish dont play it for hours trying to make sure your 8 pound leader dosent snap take your pics or take your fish so every can get on with the fishing. I dont understand why some people feel as if they need to be telling others how to fish all the time sad how i never hear this on the river allways on the forums.
Try re-wording this as most of the sentences don't make sense.
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AS far as making everyone else wait while I land a fish that doesn't happen. Why? Because I don't fish at the gong shows so no one is around to wait for me. As far as playing a fish to long this doesn't happen. Why? Because if I do have the misfourtune of hooking a horrid white spring, I quickly break it off. You may say this is unethical. I say do you remember when in the fall the Vedder was filled with coho, and white springs were virtually non-existent? The worst thing the chilliwack hatchery ever did was start stocking these vile fish. The less of these fish the better. And as far as why you don't hear talk of using too heavy of line is because you are standing shoulder to shoulder with others of your kind. Anglers like myself are willing to walk to get away from the crowds or just end up fishing a completely different river system. What other rivers are there do you ask. Well that is information that I will never divulge for fear of your type of angler ruining the atmosphere on our rivers. Thanks and have a nice evening!
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I see on this thread a number of posters are sickened by the garbage they are seeing on the Fraser and Vedder. A couple of things that you can do to help is if you are fishing these spots take a garbage bag along and pick some of it up. Sometimes others seeing you do this will jump in and help. As well others will see you doing a clean up of the area's and think twice about dropping their stuff.
Nothing beats being proactive about trying to make things better. While I am at it, another way you can help is give up a day of fishing on the 25th of September and join the Chilliwack/Vedder River Cleanup Coalition as they celebrate BC Rivers Day with a cleanup of the Chilliwack and Vedder River.
All the info is at www.fishingwithrod.com/cleanriver
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Your absolutely right Wool Bandit. I am the same as you. I dont BB and never will. I explore rivers and creeks looking for spots where nobody or not many will find. I go out without my equiptment on some days just exploring. I might be putting 300km's on my vehicle just searching and looking. Than when I want to do some fishing I go to my spots I have found. My advice to people is this. Just clean up after yourself and bring a garbage bag. Does it do you any harm if you pick up other peoples garbage as well? Some people cant make these river cleanups but you can make a difference by doing your part.
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Yes eddie99, if anglers cannot make our cleanups picking up garbage along the streams they fish is just great as well and I know a lot do so. Good work by those that do, it does make a difference.
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i agree with bobby b, there's alot of finger pointing with no backing. sure we can all do our part with the garbage situation, but what arrogance to talk about locations on the river like it belonged to an exclusive group....
" I remember when a busy day at Landstrom Bar was a dozen people and 90% of them were from Hope".
let's face it. if it wasn't for the fishing industry, alot of those towns including Hope would be nothing more than rest stops where people go to get gas. camping and the old "Rambo" film location is about all, that Hope has to offer. so maybe some of you need to eat some humble pie because those so called guides, and those so called bb's are your town's bread and butter.
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The finger pointing keeps going on and on here with no accountability for statements made. I guess that's the nature of the internet - many of us feel free to spew off whatever is on our mind without having to endure a real face to face confrontation.
Thats exactly what if been saying since if been on this forum. People seem to have made it a second(to fishing ;)) past time bashing others on the web, hiding behind their monitors.
I dont know about you wool bandit but i just like fishing i dont take more fish than my limit, i dont use hooks with barbs on them. I know all my fish species and all the unwriten rules of gong show fishing that i do my best to follow. I also dont go around tell fishermen how to fish , where to fish and what species is the best to catch. So if im part of some bad fishermen crowed i dont wana be part of the good.
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i agree with bobby b, there's alot of finger pointing with no backing. sure we can all do our part with the garbage situation, but what arrogance to talk about locations on the river like it belonged to an exclusive group....
" I remember when a busy day at Landstrom Bar was a dozen people and 90% of them were from Hope".
let's face it. if it wasn't for the fishing industry, alot of those towns including Hope would be nothing more than rest stops where people go to get gas. camping and the old "Rambo" film location is about all, that Hope has to offer. so maybe some of you need to eat some humble pie because those so called guides, and those so called bb's are your town's bread and butter.
BB'ers are not helping any communities. Lets see the sockeye season was open for a whole 6 days and you think that it helps the community? Give me a break. Places like Hope rely on truckers and tourists not the fishermen so much.I know guide(s) that only barfish from their boats. They stay away from those so called gong shows. I also dont agree with BB'ing for fish and those guides dont have allot of choices since they have to please their clients.They should inform the clients that the fish they are about to catch are not actually biting the offering. Let the client decide on how they want to fish. Nothing wrong with barfishing. Give it a try and you may never go back...
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Also the if you can land a 30-45 pound spring in the vedder without lossing it and not playing it for hours making everyone eles stand around waiting for you then your my hero. I like to catch my fish and keep them if liek you say they arent complete boots or take a pic even if they are so i allways go safe and use a 20-25 pound leader. I think people would apreciate it more if you hook your fish dont play it for hours trying to make sure your 8 pound leader dosent snap take your pics or take your fish so every can get on with the fishing
Floater I'm not sure what your fishing experience is like but from my personal experiece, 20-25lb leader is not necessary and that unless you are fishing very heavy water, it is very difficult to get 'bites' doing so. I personaly use 10lb maxima for leader and very rarely brake off fish unless on purpose. When you speak of people taking too long to land their fish it is usually due to 1. The fish is snagged and should be broken off to avoid over tiring it and monopolizing the pool. 2. The angler is not using a rod suited to the job. 3. Said fisherman is inexperienced, in which case its best to be patient as we were all there once.
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Your right. I only use 6 to 10 lbs leader and fish the veddar with my 2106 sage. I have no problem landing big fish. And if it is to big I break it of. I do not target the big whites I am there for the coho. If I hook a spring it is not my choice and using 20 to 25 lbs leader for the veddar is total over kill. My main line is not even that heavy.
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I know of a family who fish Pipleline. The father is a friend, an awesome fisherman, and a forum member too. After they are done with fishing, the whole familly scouted around for garbage and they have a large bag to hold the garbage. The father hauled the garbage & fish along. I applaud them for their selfless act. I don't have the back for heavy garbage, but I have a small bag for lines that I pick up. It is one small thing every fisher can do, pick up those lines which can tangle up with fish & birds wherever they fish. Instead of ranting, perhaps forum members can practise our own river cleaning in whatever capacity. Positive actions by some on the bars will become a good role models for other fishers.
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do you people think their were more sox taken by anglers, or netters?
who do you fish for sockeye if you dont bb?? i would like to learn frome some one, if its possable.
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BB'ers are not helping any communities. Lets see the sockeye season was open for a whole 6 days and you think that it helps the community? Give me a break. Places like Hope rely on truckers and tourists not the fishermen so much.I know guide(s) that only barfish from their boats. They stay away from those so called gong shows. I also dont agree with BB'ing for fish and those guides dont have allot of choices since they have to please their clients.They should inform the clients that the fish they are about to catch are not actually biting the offering. Let the client decide on how they want to fish. Nothing wrong with barfishing. Give it a try and you may never go back...
first of all, i was speaking figuratively. specificly, i was referring to the fishing industry, which is tied to tourism.
as far as the guides are concerned, they are aware that the sockeye fishery is a meat fishery...just like commercial netters, so why would they refuse a client that wants to harvest a fish or two? don't you think if they were able to, they would fish alternatively?
if its strictly about the ethics, in which you oppose the way these fish are being caught, then it is fair for me to assume (since you don't partake in this fishery) that you don't buy or eat sockeye....fresh, frozen, or smoked. because we all agree, sockeye fishing is not a sport... therefore since you oppose any 'snagging/flossing' methods... you oppose the harvesting of these fish and will not support it by buying or eating them.
....and just to set the record straight, i love Hope. i think its a beautiful town.... but this 'our town..our river' mentality is displaced, considering that without 'outside' revenue, it's nothing more than a truck stop.
no one ever plans to go to Hope for the sake of the town itself. if they do, it's to go fishing and camping, or to take a pit stop....that's the reality.
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Biffchan your right to some degree i usualy fish already fast moving runs and if i hook a monster white it usualy takes off to the fast heavy water right away. Dont tell me that you can stop that from happening on a 10 pound leader without it snaping cuz everyone knows when a spring wants to go its gona go no matter what rod your using or how experienced you are. Also i dont see what problem people have with what gear others use who cares if someone uses double the line weight you do i mean is it so important to force your ways on to another fishermen.
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BB'ers are not helping any communities. Lets see the sockeye season was open for a whole 6 days and you think that it helps the community? Give me a break. Places like Hope rely on truckers and tourists not the fishermen so much.I know guide(s) that only barfish from their boats. They stay away from those so called gong shows. I also dont agree with BB'ing for fish and those guides dont have allot of choices since they have to please their clients.They should inform the clients that the fish they are about to catch are not actually biting the offering. Let the client decide on how they want to fish. Nothing wrong with barfishing. Give it a try and you may never go back...
first of all, i was speaking figuratively. specificly, i was referring to the fishing industry, which is tied to tourism.
as far as the guides are concerned, they are aware that the sockeye fishery is a meat fishery...just like commercial netters, so why would they refuse a client that wants to harvest a fish or two? don't you think if they were able to, they would fish alternatively?
if its strictly about the ethics, in which you oppose the way these fish are being caught, then it is fair for me to assume (since you don't partake in this fishery) that you don't buy or eat sockeye....fresh, frozen, or smoked. because we all agree, sockeye fishing is not a sport... therefore since you oppose any 'snagging/flossing' methods... you oppose the harvesting of these fish and will not support it by buying or eating them.
....and just to set the record straight, i love Hope. i think its a beautiful town.... but this 'our town..our river' mentality is displaced, considering that without 'outside' revenue, it's nothing more than a truck stop.
no one ever plans to go to Hope for the sake of the town itself. if they do, it's to go fishing and camping, or to take a pit stop....that's the reality.
Actually I never buy sockeye and if I want to catch sockeye I catch them out in the ocean using bait where they actually bite. Their are 4 other species of salmon that come up the river that well bite your offering. Coho are just as good BBQ'd and Red Springs are tasty on the BBQ as well. The pinks and chums are great for smoking so you see I dont need the sockeye fishery since their are so many alternatives. I never buy salmon in the store, I do buy shellfish in the store but never salmon. If I dont catch anything thats fine since fishing to me is a sport and I just enjoy my time out on the water.
As far as the guides are concerned I happen to know 1 guide that doesnt take clients out for sockeye and he makes a good living. He does not want to jeopardize his beliefs for the all mighty buck. I have to respect someone like that. Their are other things guides can fish for like Sturgeon, Springs etc.....
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Blah blah blah
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Blah blah blah
[mod hat - AGAIN!]
And how does THIS help the topic???
If you can't say anything nice (or useful)......
[/mod hat]
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[mod edit] See my post just above this.....sheesh [/mod edit]
No need to edit it come on now. This is a public forum isnt their such a thing as freedom of speech anymore? Their was no harm in what anyone was really posting. Their was no foul language, no insults thrown at anyone, and it never got out of hand.
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Floater, good on you if you are able to kit springs on the heavy water with heavy gear. The reason people are often against the heavy line is because in most situations it is near impossible to get fish to bite the heavy line usually indicates that they are snagging fish.
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Hmm biffchan dont know if that was sarcasam or what but anyways maybe on smaller fish like coho the line matters but on springs i have no trouble getting bites on 25 line actualy i even get coho to bite also. I think the whole to thick line scares fish away is just a fishermans myth to some extent cuz people forget fish dont have as good eye site as us and dont even know what a leader or a hook is. To them they just see something in their territory and they bite it its all instinct they arent freaking smart lol.
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Tells you what, some time me and you shall head out, you can fish with your 20lb leader and me with my 10lb.
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No problem but this has to be during white run on the vedder thats what im basing this on.
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i have generally fished 6 through 10 pound maxima as leader on the chilliwack. I generally (95%) of the time fish the pockety runs in the upper stretches. typical rig for moderate semi clear flow would be 15 main 8 leader, targetting coho. I have on numerous occasions, 5 I have pictures of, landed 35 to 44 lbs clean white springs with this rig. these fish were all hooked on procured roe, #2 gami hook and 18 inch 8lbs leader and bit not flossed. All landed in under 20 minutes each. Technique in fighting big fish on lighter line and having a rod that flexes properly with enough give versus backbone is really the key to subdue big fish reasonably quickly on light lines, drag adjustment is a big factor too.
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Floater,, if there was a school for fishing ethics,, you should be the first to enroll. No offense,, but I've been reading some of your posts over the last few weeks,, and all I can do is shake my head. ??? Sure,,we can, within reason fish different methods. But why would you want to haul in whites with 25 pound test,, snag sockeye,, snag cohos. Go to school and get some "fishing" class!
Also, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to listen to some of these guys who happen to be are a lot older and more knowledgeable than you.
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i have generally fished 6 through 10 pound maxima as leader on the chilliwack. I generally (95%) of the time fish the pockety runs in the upper stretches. typical rig for moderate semi clear flow would be 15 main 8 leader, targetting coho. I have on numerous occasions, 5 I have pictures of, landed 35 to 44 lbs clean white springs with this rig. these fish were all hooked on procured roe, #2 gami hook and 18 inch 8lbs leader and bit not flossed. All landed in under 20 minutes each. Technique in fighting big fish on lighter line and having a rod that flexes properly with enough give versus backbone is really the key to subdue big fish reasonably quickly on light lines, drag adjustment is a big factor too.
don't get me wrong. i'm not trying to troll or start any debate, but 44 lbs?....using an 8 lbs test? ??? the last time i hooked onto a 40+ lbs spring, it fought like a 50+ pounder. it just doesn't sound right.
seems too big a gap between the numbers.
44 lbs of dead weight dragged through the water with an 8 lbs test is a feat in itself, but to have 44 lbs. of it fighting almost seems mathematically not possible.
i've landed 25 lbs springs with 8 lbs test, but a tyee? i have yet to.
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It's doable if you know what you're doing. I've caught a 44 lber from the Stamp on a 10 lb. test leader.
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here's my hypothetical question.
if you use 40lbs. of braided (main line) with 10 lbs. of monofiliment (leader)... is the fish really at a disadvantage, as compared to using 15 lbs of main with 10 lbs of leader?
crack a dawn. i've also read floater's threads, i don't ever recall seeing him promote the snagging of cohos. you just accused him of doing something he never did. please don't preach ethics when you don't practice it yourself.
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It's doable if you know what you're doing. I've caught a 44 lber from the Stamp on a 10 lb. test leader.
then i stand corrected.
most of the time, i know what i'm doing. the problem is i don't always know what the fish is doing :)
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25 pound leaders catching coho? They can be flossed as well.
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25 pound leaders catching coho? They can be flossed as well.
you can floss with any pound test. did you ask him about his set up? float, no float? betty...pencil lead?... 18 inch of leader, 5 feet?
crack a dawn, you seem like a nice guy. i don't doubt that, but it's not fair to give someone a bad name just because you're speculating.
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I've landed many springs over 30 on 10lb leaders. Don't belive me, check out the gallery.
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Ohhhh,,alright,,good point. ;) But I am a little speculative.
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I've landed many springs over 30 on 10lb leaders. Don't belive me, check out the gallery.
i've also landed big springs with 10 lbs leaders, but the number in question was the 44 lbs on 8 lbs test. that's quite significant.
don't worry. i believe you, as i believe FA :)
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Well belive it or not. When I am in town I am usually more than willing to take people out and give them some pointers.
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Ohhhh,,alright,,good point. ;) But I am a little speculative.
we all are, that's what makes posting fun ;D
tight lines.
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Well belive it or not. When I am in town I am usually more than willing to take people out and give them some pointers.
i already said i believed you. i was being sincere. why the defensive posture? you almost sound sarcastic.
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Well belive it or not. When I am in town I am usually more than willing to take people out and give them some pointers.
i already said i believed you. i was being sincere. why the defensive posture? you almost sound sarcastic.
Not directed at you.
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It's doable if you know what you're doing. I've caught a 44 lber from the Stamp on a 10 lb. test leader.
Isn't the idea to bring the fish in asap? The longer you need to play them (which I assume you must with a 10lb leader) the more stress which builds up in the fish and affects the flesh negatively.
It makes more sense to use heavier leader to horse them in as fast as possible - better for the fish imho.
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Monofilament line will have some stretch to it, which will help absorb some shock. Braided lines pretty much won't stretch at all, leaving the shock absorbtion to the rod, reel drag, and the leader. I'm no expert on monofilament line, so I don't know if the strength rating incorporates the stretch factor.
When fishing the Vedder I used 15 lb mono for main line and 8 lb leader. No problems with chums and the whites, only problem is hooking into a coho in the first place :P
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It's doable if you know what you're doing. I've caught a 44 lber from the Stamp on a 10 lb. test leader.
Isn't the idea to bring the fish in asap? The longer you need to play them (which I assume you must with a 10lb leader) the more stress which builds up in the fish and affects the flesh negatively.
It makes more sense to use heavier leader to horse them in as fast as possible - better for the fish imho.
Surprisingly it didn't take me more than a few minutes to land that fish.
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It's doable if you know what you're doing. I've caught a 44 lber from the Stamp on a 10 lb. test leader.
Isn't the idea to bring the fish in asap? The longer you need to play them (which I assume you must with a 10lb leader) the more stress which builds up in the fish and affects the flesh negatively.
It makes more sense to use heavier leader to horse them in as fast as possible - better for the fish imho.
Surprisingly it didn't take me more than a few minutes to land that fish.
I bow in your presence :)
seriously great if you can do that...i could never persuade a fish what to do except swim as fast as possible downstream lol
what technique do you use? rod tip down?
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The fish committed suicide by swimming upstream against the current thus tiring itself out more quickly.
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The fish committed suicide by swimming upstream against the current thus tiring itself out more quickly.
haha
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Ya fish is so unpretictable. One day you might land a 20lber easy another day a 10lber might take you for a river tour. (experienced that on grass carp).
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Well, I am not a Sport Fisherman. I do not believe that fishing is a matter of competition. I fish to catch them and to become food. I can use a very fine leader/tippet or thicker ones. I use the thickest one that I could use while still maintaining optimum presentation. I can land the fish quicker with thicker leader/tippet. So I choose what would be most beneficial and merciful to the fish. So when I C&R salmon and see them continue their swim up the river, I know I am doing the right thing.
Catching a fish with very fine leader/tippet requires more care in successfully landing the fish. The fight is indeed more exciting. However, I do not value fun and excitement above the health and welfare of the fish and that of the environment.
Some people would say that it is unethical to use a thicker leader/tippet. I totally disagree.
Do what's beneficial to the fish and the environment in general. If you follow this guideline instead of self glorification then you are doing the right thing.
So it is really a matter of individual/personal choice according to what one values most.
If any or all of you want to be classified as a better or the best fishherman then I gladly concede that any of you are better fisherman than I am. In fact, it's ok with me if you say that I am the worst fisherman. You can even say that I have unethical fishing practice. I did BB for sockeye and got 10 in 5 days. For this, I was classified as a Meathead. But while sockeye fishing, I only C&R once (Long line release due to tangles). If I caught only pinks then that would be what I bring home as food. But over all, maybe my luck in catching my limits of sockeye was due to karma for my fishing philosophy.
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Crack a dawn maybe you should start that school up you seem to know exactly what yout talking about. Might wana get alot of ice too for them fat lips you would be getting all day, what you just posted what completly immature speculated crap snaging socs or coho where does that crap come from? Maybe you should become a DFO office and come onad tell me on the river im fishing wrong. What buisness of yours is it anyways with what kinda leader i fish?
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Go eat your meat sox! :-*
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With pleasure. ;)