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[shuswapsteve]

Not saying there are no anti open net pen folks down south.  I refer to the vocal bunch here on this side of the border who ignore that open net pen aquaculture goes on in Washington State and is expanding in other areas of the US.

Good Lord...I thought anti-fish farm critics were the masters at Google searches.  Just a simple search of NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) and Aquaculture will show you how the US plans to expand its aquaculture industry which can include ocean net pen aquaculture. Since 2011? C'mon....open net pen aquaculture has been operating in Maine and Washington State longer than 2011.

[shuswapsteve]

Hard to compare salmon ranching to salmon farming.
 First off its a different species of salmon,Atlantic  vs a resident,endemic species
Ranching is used to boost wild stocks, if you wanted to ,you could compare Alaska's Ranching to our hatchery production ,the difference being that they are raised in different locations.

Yes, a different salmon species is used, but they are not that different if you look into it. Ranching doesn't raise salmon to market size but the fish husbandry is not much different (i.e. fish food, medicine, chemicals, OCEAN NET PEN, etc.).

You could say our method is more hands off as the fry and smolts are not raised in net pens as they are in ranching.

I would not say that raising fish in a federal hatchery is any less "hands off".  Go visit a federal hatchery in your area and see for yourself.
 

As for reading all the links, I agree with Tb I dont want to download 4 different links to 40 page documents .If you have something to say, just say it , if we need corrobaration we will ask.

I have said it, but some don't want to listen.  That's fine...I expect it...lol.  When asked for evidence I provided it. If you don't want to read it that's fine, but don't make excuses about not wanting to download 4 different links to read 40 page documents.  Funny thing is that fish farm critics love to post multiple links which they use to bolster their argument but complain when I just post a few. I posted 3 links to studies done as a sample. If you can't read those then I can't help you.  If you are genuinely interested in this you will take the time to read these unless you are afraid it might challenge your opinions and perceptions.

As for the cohen report, how can you use this as evidence for anything , you keep mentioning it like it should have more evidence ,it doesnt.

How do I use the Cohen Report as evidence for anything? Cohen looked at all possible factors and talked to a wide range of experts on that deal with each of those.  Although Cohen didn't find a smoking gun it really didn't come as a big surprise as it is a little naïve to think that one factor is doing all the harm and works in isolation of others.  I never said that Cohen had all the answers or the evidence; in fact, Cohen suggest that evidence is lacking in many areas. It doesn't answer all the questions but instead raises more which is a good thing also. It addressed data gaps that needed to be studied and some are.  However, in respect to aquaculture, it was clear that Cohen didn't condemn aquaculture in BC and blame it solely for the declining Fraser Sockeye productivity. I use Cohen to show that what farm critics thought was damning evidence against the industry here is not necessarily so. There is more going on and the doom and gloom prophesies regarding fish farming are not panning out. 

Salmon juveniles can suffer a lot of mortality, but that includes freshwater residency (egg, alevin, fry) - not just juveniles entering saltwater and swimming by fish farms.  That is being studied currently as we speak. If you look at the PSF website you will see how they are involved with university academia and DFO looking at juvenile Fraser Sockeye survival. 

[troutbreath]

"Not saying there are no anti open net pen folks down south."

I'm not sure your saying anything other than your strong emotional response to "the mothership" now. Flipping like a fish on that issue Steve. Some of those people down south who object to open pen fish farms might be raising other things in the ocean there ....maybe.


"C'mon....open net pen aquaculture has been operating in Maine and Washington State longer than 2011."

So what's the holden up the stage coach then. Cheap salmon coming from Mexicanada? Polluted waters? NOAA been barking about more aquaculture but no bite. Bad dog. 2011 hmmm what happened in 2011?

[Dave]

Time for your meds tb

[shuswapsteve]

That could be the problem.

[clarkii]

Escapement of Atlantic's from ocean net pens is not a concern.  If it was, we would already have Atlantic salmon in a few of our streams at the coast, like the Stave and Coquitlam due to stocking in 1905.   http://www.gofishbc.com/fish-stocking-reports/archive-reports/ReportOutputResult.aspx?StockSpecies=all&StockStrains=all&StockGenotypes=all&FishStages=all&Region=LOWER%20MAINLAND&Town=all&Waterbody=all&&YearFrom=1905&YearTo=1913

The concern is for the transfer of pathogens between these farmed fish and wild salmon.

[Dave]

The concern is for the transfer of pathogens between these farmed fish and wild salmon.

Yup, and to date, after about 40 years of salmon farming in BC the only documented disease transfer has been from wild Pacific's to farmed Atlantics.

[chris gadsden]

Yup, and to date, after about 40 years of salmon farming in BC the only documented disease transfer has been from wild Pacific's to farmed Atlantics.

Maybe that will wipe them out one day.

[troutbreath]

Time for your meds tb

and time for you and Steve to bone up on what's going on down south

"Just a simple search of NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) and Aquaculture will show you how the US plans to expand its aquaculture industry which can include ocean net pen aquaculture. "

" We provide vital services for the nation: productive and sustainable fisheries, safe sources of seafood, the recovery and conservation of protected resources, and healthy ecosystems—all backed by sound science and an ecosystem-based approach to management."

I guess the stinking open pen salmon farm doesn't make the grade eh. As Steve said they been open pen fish farms for years down there. Just a few though and everything else is going land based. Only way these guy's are going to give you the OK. I'm sure they prefer to see a feed lot ally up in Canada. They've learned from the beef farms down there polluting the ground water...just do it in Alberta....their stupid enough to let us.

[Dave]

You're all over the place with this post tb ... are you doubting aquaculture will expand in the US? I gave a reason why Washington doesn't have much room for expansion of their industry and why BC is so well placed to do exactly that .. as for land based salmon farms, I am all in favor, but I can't see it being profitable, just yet.

You keep referring to salmon farms as "stinking" ... have you ever been to one?

[Fisherbob]

Once again for TB. Take the hat off.
http://dailyuw.com/archive/2014/10/23/science/aquaculture#.VFrOVim9Kc2

[troutbreath]

You're all over the place with this post tb ... are you doubting aquaculture will expand in the US? I gave a reason why Washington doesn't have much room for expansion of their industry and why BC is so well placed to do exactly that .. as for land based salmon farms, I am all in favor, but I can't see it being profitable, just yet.

You keep referring to salmon farms as "stinking" ... have you ever been to one?

Your going nowhere Dave.
Dave put a few thousand dead diseased fish in a net pen and what ya got ....exactly.
You sure that there is not more fish farms there because other types of aquaculture does not want all the pharmaceutical turds from net penned salmon? Try out fresh shellfish from under the net pen. Sounds delish.

Bawb that article is more  plagiarized stuff off the net. I wouldn't take a class from him in fact he would be kicked out of most post secondary institutes if he handed that in.
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1274030

[shuswapsteve]

In July 2006, the initial draft of the plan was reviewed and endorsed by MAFAC (Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee). Based on MAFAC’s comments, the plan was revised by NOAA and made available for further public comment in November 2006. In October 2007, the plan was adopted by NOAA as an agency-wide policy document intended to guide a broad, national initiative for marine aquaculture
based on four distinct goals:
1] A comprehensive regulatory program for marine aquaculture.
2] Development of commercial marine aquaculture and
replenishment of wild stocks
3] Public understanding of marine aquaculture.
4] Increased collaboration and cooperation with international partners.

Momentum is building for the United States to use aquaculture to become more self-sufficient in the production of seafood and the replenishment of wild stocks. Recognizing this, in June 2005 the Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee (MAFAC) requested that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) prepare a plan to support the future development of marine aquaculture in the United States.

In its 2006 report, “State of World Aquaculture”, the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) reported that nearly half of the fish consumed as food worldwide are raised on fish farms (compared to 9 percent in 1980) and estimated that world wide aquaculture production would have to increase from 45.5 million mt in 2004 to 80 million mt in 2050 to just
maintain current per capita consumption levels. The FAO highlighted the growing consumer demand for seafood as one of the most important driving forces behind the surge in production. Media coverage of the FAO report along with more recent
concern over the safety of seafood imports has added context and urgency to the U.S. effort to spark more domestic seafood production through aquaculture to meet the growing demand.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/aquaculture/docs/policy/final_noaa_10_yr_plan.pdf

Today, aquaculture in federal waters is among the most talked-about technologies associated with the future of seafood production in the United States. This recent wave of interest in the offshore has strong roots in Chapter 24 of the U.S. Commission on Ocean Policy’s September 2004 report to Congress, An Ocean Blueprint for the 21st Century. In its report, the Commission recommended that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) develop a comprehensive, environmentally sound permitting and regulatory program for marine aquaculture.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/aquaculture/docs/economics_report/econ_report_all.pdf

Oh...but wait...there's more....and not all land-based either....
http://www.noaa.gov/features/resources_0109/aquaculture.html
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/aquaculture/supplemental_pages/in_the_regions.html
https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/National/Federal/Pages/NOAA-Strategic-Plan.aspx
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2011/20110711_aquaculture.html
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/07/24/usa-prepares-for-massive-growth-in-aquaculture/

That should keep you busy for awhile, TB, or do wish to stay in your state of denial?

[Fisherbob]

http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/noaas-little-boo-boo/

[troutbreath]

"urgency to the U.S. effort to spark more domestic seafood production through aquaculture "
"Momentum is building for the United States to use aquaculture to become more self-sufficient in the production of seafood and the replenishment of wild stocks. Recognizing this, in June 2005 the Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee (MAFAC) requested that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) prepare a plan to support the future development of marine aquaculture in the United States."

I felt the wind as the momentum from 2005 finally caught up to me Steve. Mussed up my haido no denying that.

Looks like the ol net pen will only be allowed out in the open ocean some miles off shore. Could be a rough ride in more ways than a shark has teeth. You and Bawb could get a job out there if you don't get sea sick. Make a good shark movie as well like Sharknado. The movie could help offset the costs of trying to keep the net pen out there. That's a free one from me by the way. Only trying to be helpful.

Nice post Bawb I forwarded it to NOAA. Sure to make some friends there.