Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Suther on October 17, 2013, 07:45:07 PM
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I know questions about braid have been asked a million times, and I have read a bunch of old threads and stuff already but I am still left with some questions, including brand, color, and how much to spool on my reel.
I am planning on setting up my new spinning rod with 40 or 50lb braid for bar fishing the Fraser and bottom fish(flounder, ect) and dogfish from piers in the salt.
First question is the always-present whats your favorite brand? More than favorite brand, I am interested in brands you've had bad experiences with. From old posts I gather Spiderline is not very good - it frays quickly and is generally not as good as others. Does anyone have an opinion on Berkley Big Game braid, or Sufix 832? Tuf-line XP seems to be highly recommended, and Power Pro is also recommended. Im leaning towards whichever I can find cheaper, which seems to be to Power Pro. I see some bad reviews for the slick 8, does anyone have bad experiences with it?
Power Pro leaves me asking what color I should use. I dont think I particularly need a hi-vis line, so white/yellow are out. That leaves blue, two greens, red, and brown (between regular and slick 8 lines of line) Im leaning towards the regular (not slick 8 ) green. It seems to be readily available in whatever size spool and test I want, and seems to fit the bill of fishing Fraser/ocean. I would be using a leader regardless of color.
Finally I come to how much should I spool on. I see lots of recommendations of using some mono to fill up the spool a bit first, and the reel Im getting calls for 390 yards of 15lb mono, which is a lot of 40lb braid. I also dont think I need 400+ yards of braid on there. How much braid do I want on a bar fishing/pier fishing setup? 150 yards? 300 yards? I was thinking, if I use only 150 yards of braid, I'll need mono thats strong enough to keep up, so 40lb or whatever, but if I had 300 yards of braid then my mono would only really be needed to fill the spool, so I could use something smaller like 15lb mono?
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Chalk me down for the Sufix 832 for sure! I've used both the green and most recently the ghost and I have to say the ghost is the best braid I've ever casted with! Even the wife is a believer - and she's not a fan of the braid until I spooled her up with the Sufix 832 Ghost - it casts beautifully and we've had zero issues with it (we're using 20lb test). Last year we used the Power Pro and it was garbage! It was 20lb test and we both experienced our line breaking above the knot on just regular casts (maybe we both got bad spools of line). Sufix 832 gets my vote
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forgot to mention it also has virtually zero line twist and doesn't get affected by the salt
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Here in Australia, a lot of fisherman have gone to braid for everything, except hi speed trolling.
Plenty of guys here originally use fins and power pro and regarded them as the best until of the last few years, we have all gone to ebay special as someone here did a very comprehensive test and found that the ebay cheapies are as good and some time better than the much hype established brand. But saying that some of the braid I've used, I have notice some are louder than others on a spinning reel. The way to avoid premature braid failure is look at the tightness of the braid to see if it allow tinny particles of grits in there which eventually cause it to fail. One thing you have to remember that untested braid will generally break over 50% on top of the stated rating ie. a 20lbs will go over 30lbs before breaking.
cheers
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I used powerpro hi-viz for several years on my float rod and aside from being noisy it worked perfectly.
I switched to Slick8 two years ago on my low profile reel and it is really nice. Strong, quiet, high visibility, and it floats. I haven't had any problems with abrasion and it remained solidly strong even after being shredded by a broken ceramic ring on my rod.
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I use 150lb Tuff-line for sturgeon and around 60lb Tuff-line for Springs & Chum.
This year, I started using braid for pinks to be able to get a long cast.
I tried a coated Spiderwire (green) that was awful.
The green colour came off on your hands and the line frays badly after a few days use.
I then tried another Spiderwire - the "camo" version.
Sounds hokey but the line is very good - very supple and does not fray easily.
I would put the lighter mono on as a base under the braid.
Slim chance that you will ever get to the mono while fishing & it will provide a more even base.
I ended up using the crappy coated Spiderwire as a base for the camo line.
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Here in Australia, a lot of fisherman have gone to braid for everything, except hi speed trolling.
Plenty of guys here originally use fins and power pro and regarded them as the best until of the last few years, we have all gone to ebay special as someone here did a very comprehensive test and found that the ebay cheapies are as good and some time better than the much hype established brand. But saying that some of the braid I've used, I have notice some are louder than others on a spinning reel. The way to avoid premature braid failure is look at the tightness of the braid to see if it allow tinny particles of grits in there which eventually cause it to fail. One thing you have to remember that untested braid will generally break over 50% on top of the stated rating ie. a 20lbs will go over 30lbs before breaking.
cheers
Is that so? Any particular brands you've used that are good, or just whatever braid is cheapest online?
I have come across SeaHunter and Eposeidon for very cheap on Amazon, and a bunch of Spectra extreme braid and PE Super Strong on Ebay.
This is the only one I can find on Amazon.ca, (Im ordering other stuff from amazon, such as a reel, so I get free shipping for most things, thats why Im trying to get it from amazon.ca if possible)
http://www.amazon.ca/Spool-Strong-Braid-Braided-Fishing/dp/B00CFFISFM/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1382114632&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=braided+fishing+line+40-pound
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I use a multi-coloured Sufix 832 which is camo coloured (green, brown, white). Although I'm not crazy about the colour choice since Wal-Mart didn't have any other colours for this brand, it is strong and it has decent casting.
So far, I haven't had any breakage under any condition. I try to avoid tying my line to my lure if if it's at the white section of the line since I discovered that I get much less strikes to due to high visibilty of the line, especially on clearer water. Some people say it's horrible for spinning reels, but I have no problems so far in terms of casting, but the line does absorb water, so the line does stick a bit (not much in terms of the spool itself, but the line, yes); therefore, casting distance will be slightly reduced.
I've experienced slight line twist when using spoons even with a snap swivel for spoons that don't come with a built in swivel such as with my Luhr Jensen Krocodile. However, for the most part, if you're using a high quality spinner that's designed to reduce line twist (Blue Fox) or a lure with a built in swivel, line twist will be rare with Sufix 832.
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braid buyers guide
http://www.paulusjustfishing.com/4linetestingbuy.htm
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braid buyers guide
http://www.paulusjustfishing.com/4linetestingbuy.htm
Thanks that helps a lot.
Although he seems to be pretty unimpressed by basically all brands lol
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I use the Sufix 832 Braid in 10lb for pinks and Coho. I couldnt be more impressed. I have not tried other variants of Braid, but switching from mono to braid has been amazing! I have had 2 birds nests on my spinning reel, one was totally my fault, both took about 20 minutes to untangle. No break offs, but I have suffered the braid spinning around the reel due to a lack of backing, but after 3 or 4 pinks caught, it has tightened up and not been a problem. I will never go back to mono! This stuff is absolutely great and I love it!
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Is that so? Any particular brands you've used that are good, or just whatever braid is cheapest online?
I have come across SeaHunter and Eposeidon for very cheap on Amazon, and a bunch of Spectra extreme braid and PE Super Strong on Ebay.
This is the only one I can find on Amazon.ca, (Im ordering other stuff from amazon, such as a reel, so I get free shipping for most things, thats why Im trying to get it from amazon.ca if possible)
http://www.amazon.ca/Spool-Strong-Braid-Braided-Fishing/dp/B00CFFISFM/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1382114632&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=braided+fishing+line+40-pound
PE or spectra are the two main ones. The fish we go for here are pretty serious customers. I don't have a preference, who ever sell the right colour at the right length for the cheapest is good.
I get different colour for different strength. ie yellow for 30lbs, pink for 50lbs, black for 100lbs, so a quick look and you know the strength if you got multiple spools for the same reel.
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Ended up ordering 300m of this.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FREE-SHIP-PE-DYNEEMA-BRAID-FISHING-LINE-100M-500M-300M-1000M-BLUE-COLOR-/310758767982?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var&hash=item485aaa7d6e&_uhb=1
For $11, I figure I can't go wrong. Even if I hate the stuff as fishing line, and can use it for other things.
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Not too bad I suppose. the 10lb is only 6 thou thick, my suffix 832 is 8 thou. Unless its really garbage, if the diameter and test is correct, seems like a good buy!
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I like power pro...have had the stuff on some reels for 6+ years.
If you are going to fish braid, please do the following: use a mono bumper. Learn the albrieght knot or use a swivel. Either way it sickens me to see people using braid down to the weight snapping off large amounts of line in the river. Put on a 5-10 foot mono leader below the braid and you run that spool of braid for YEARS and you wont leave a lot of line on tyhe bottom if you snag up....
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I like power pro...have had the stuff on some reels for 6+ years.
If you are going to fish braid, please do the following: use a mono bumper. Learn the albrieght knot or use a swivel. Either way it sickens me to see people using braid down to the weight snapping off large amounts of line in the river. Put on a 5-10 foot mono leader below the braid and you run that spool of braid for YEARS and you wont leave a lot of line on tyhe bottom if you snag up....
I will always use a mono or flouro leader, although 5+ feet seems a bit long typically, as I will be using a swivel at the end of the braid to minimize line twist.
What are good knots for braid to a swivel?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of8-LkQlkOU
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----line like many other products can be from authorized producer that pay for quality fibre such as dymeena or spectra which are copy rite protected or they can be knock offs. Poor quality control other fibers mixed in or even the process of braiding can be different.
--on the other hand I get tired of larger companies that send their material overseas for processing, sell it at the same price as here then cry when it is copied and sold by the producers.
--if you take time to read the Paulus site you will see references to counterfit line being sold in some cases at such high volumes as to affect the reputation of legitimate companies.
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----line like many other products can be from authorized producer that pay for quality fibre such as dymeena or spectra which are copy rite protected or they can be knock offs. Poor quality control other fibers mixed in or even the process of braiding can be different.
--on the other hand I get tired of larger companies that send their material overseas for processing, sell it at the same price as here then cry when it is copied and sold by the producers.
--if you take time to read the Paulus site you will see references to counterfit line being sold in some cases at such high volumes as to affect the reputation of legitimate companies.
Yeah, I did read the Paulus site, and it seems that the chinese braids are certainly inferior to the name-brands that cost 4 times as much. That being said, I dont need the woulds greatest line, I just need something that will hold up to some bar fishing the Fraser in Agassiz and Lilloet. Bigger diameter than stated is to be expected, even with name-brands it seems.
When it arrives, I will let everyone know my opinions on this line, but I have never used brand name braid to compare it to, so I can only say whether I like it or not, and how it performs for me.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of8-LkQlkOU
So its just a Uni knot with two passes through the eye of the hook, rather than just one? Seems easy enough...
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Besides the knot mentioned, I also use a modified paternoster knot, put through the loop a second time. When tying the mono leader, I double my braided line before tying the Albright knot. I feel more confident that the braid will not cut the mono or fluorocarbon as easily if doubled.
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Besides the knot mentioned, I also use a modified paternoster knot, put through the loop a second time. When tying the mono leader, I double my braided line before tying the Albright knot. I feel more confident that the braid will not cut the mono or fluorocarbon as easily if doubled.
It seems any knot thats line-to-line is best doubled up. So I guess I need to get good with one of 'em, cause I can't just put a swivel where my backing meets my braid.
What are the advantages/disadvantages of connecting the leader with a swivel vs just tieing it to the main line? Line twist reduction of the swivel, but I dont like swivels going through my guides so it limits leader length, so thats an advantage for line-to-line... I dont know what else to think about though.
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Sorry...that was Palomar, not paternoster for the knot. I double up the braided because it cuts so well (other line, fingers, etc.). As for swivel/ no swivel, there's no reason to have a swivel. Just make sure the knot's tied properly. Practice during a BC Lions' fumble. That should give you lots of time. :'(
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I like to use a swivel because I'm frequently chucking metal and don't like line twist. Usually have one right at the lure and another between mainline and leader.
But I guess if I'm float fishing I don't need one...
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w well tied albright shouldnt dig in and cut the month. I have had snags break the mono before my albright knot failed.
I am often using 12 or 15 lb maxima UG that I loop over and then wrap the loop with my braid (30lb powerpro). I'll use about 25 wraps but I think the key is to pull the knot out sa you synch it down. I'll went the loop, pull the two braided lines one way and pull the knot out flat the opposite way. When it gets all seated nicely, then Ill synch it down with a hard pull.
Never really had an issue with line cut this way and then I have a connection that can be cast out and reeled in over with no impact.
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Gooey..seems you're having a lot of fun with auto-complete! ;D I thank you for the instructions; I wasn't using near the number of wraps you do (8 vs 25). I'll give it a shot.
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Ended up ordering 300m of this.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FREE-SHIP-PE-DYNEEMA-BRAID-FISHING-LINE-100M-500M-300M-1000M-BLUE-COLOR-/310758767982?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var&hash=item485aaa7d6e&_uhb=1
For $11, I figure I can't go wrong. Even if I hate the stuff as fishing line, and can use it for other things.
So, did you receive it and try it yet? How'd it do?
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So, did you receive it and try it yet? How'd it do?
Still waiting on shipping from China... Its only been 10 business days, and it called for 11-23 or something like that.
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It finally arrived! 15 days total shipping, not terrible. (I think thats how long at least?) It came with the wrong packing slip, but the right product. Odd...
(http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/mattsutherland000/20131108_103632.jpg) (http://s839.photobucket.com/user/mattsutherland000/media/20131108_103632.jpg.html)
Looks pretty good, especially for the price. Doesn't seem to be overly thick. it is quite easy to separate, and is made of 4 strands, says its 100% PE Fiber.
Comparing it to my 6lb stren (.23mm) and 15lb trilene big game (.38mm) and this (supposed to be .36mm) I would say the braid is the thickest.
(http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/mattsutherland000/20131108_104747.jpg) (http://s839.photobucket.com/user/mattsutherland000/media/20131108_104747.jpg.html)
Of course, this had to come today. Im off to Whistler for the weekend, and fishing is not on the to-do list. Which means actually USING, or spooling up this line is going to have to wait until Tuesday at the earliest.
Then it'll be off to my spot to see how I like it. I havn't even had a chance to try my new reel because I've been waiting for this line, so I'm very excited.
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When I tie my mainline braid to the swivel I always go with the palomar knot. I've tried others but the palomar is IMO the best and easiest to tie. If I'm running a long mono leader off the braid and don't want to reel in a swivel through my eyelets I'll tie the braid to the mono with a modified albright knot. IMO modified albright is the best mono to braid knot, better that double uni etc.
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When I tie my mainline braid to the swivel I always go with the palomar knot. I've tried others but the palomar is IMO the best and easiest to tie. If I'm running a long mono leader off the braid and don't want to reel in a swivel through my eyelets I'll tie the braid to the mono with a modified albright knot. IMO modified albright is the best mono to braid knot, better that double uni etc.
According to Know Wars, the albright (not even the modified, which I assume is either stronger, doesn't slip as much, or both) is stronger than the double uni.
That being said, I couldn't get an albright to cinch up right. Im using 15lb trilene big game mono for backing (to fill the spool up some, this thing holds 590 yards of 20lb, 330 yards 30lb... I have around 300 yards of it on here. Would have used a shorter length of thicker stuff, maybe 100 yards of 40lb mono, but this is what I have kicking around so I used it) and then its filled with the 50lb braid I bought. The math I did (mostly in my head) was going to put the whole 300m roll of braid I bought onto the reel. In actuality, it didn't all fit, but a lot of it did. Certainly over 200m, I would said probably close to 250m.
So Im tying 15lb mono to 50lb braid, and the diameter is similar. Mono says its .38mm, while braid says its .36 (braid is definitely the thicker one though. From what I read on the Paulus site, everyone lies about line diameter...Even the good names.)
Can anyone shed light onto why I couldn't get a modified albright to cinch right? Do my knot skills just need work, or am I missing something?
I ended up using a Uni to Uni knot. I like the regular uni, generally speaking, so tying this was easy enough. I put my gloves on and pulled as hard as I could without it giving, which is a lot more than I can say about my attempts at an albright. Im not particularly concerned about the strength of THIS knot, because there is like 250+yards of line to be ran out before it even matters, but at the same time knots are obviously a very important part of fishing, and if I want to tie some mono to the other end as leader THAT knot WILL matter.
Tomorrow, I go fishing and see how I like the feel of this line...
edit - I forgot to mention, when trying to cut the braid is broke my nail clippers, which cut through 15lb mono like butter...
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That braid is going to last you at least 10 years.
I got similar spooled onto sustain and stella 4000s, seven years now doing plenty of heavy duty beach works and every now and then I have to remove around 20cm from the end from abrasion from continous chucking metal slugs.
So I would expect them to last even long in a fresh water environment.
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I forgot to mention, when trying to cut the braid is broke my nail clippers, which cut through 15lb mono like butter...
Try using a pair of small sewing or craft scissors. I buy mine from the Dollar
Store and they work great for cutting braid.
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That braid is going to last you at least 10 years.
I got similar spooled onto sustain and stella 4000s, seven years now doing plenty of heavy duty beach works and every now and then I have to remove around 20cm from the end from abrasion from continous chucking metal slugs.
So I would expect them to last even long in a fresh water environment.
This setup will be dual purpose - bar fishing for salmon as well as fishing the salt for Flounder/sole and dogfish.
Try using a pair of small sewing or craft scissors. I buy mine from the Dollar
Store and they work great for cutting braid.
Yeah, I ended up just using a pair of scissors. I have a small pair of scissors thats supposed to be in my tackle box, but I misplaced them. I was quite surprised when my nail clippers snapped rather than cutting the braid though - I guess that says something about the overall strength of this line...
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I use a perfection loop to attach the braid to flouro/mono.
I too had problems with albright knots, as the braid would just keep sliding and not catch. I found it particularly bad when it was wet out. A way you can get around this is to tie a small overhand knot at the end of your braid before pulling the knot tight, that way the small knot will catch and won't slide through.
I just find the perfection loop easier and quicker to tie, and it hasn't failed me yet.
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I know questions about braid have been asked a million times, and I have read a bunch of old threads and stuff already but I am still left with some questions, including brand, color, and how much to spool on my reel.
I am planning on setting up my new spinning rod with 40 or 50lb braid for bar fishing the Fraser and bottom fish(flounder, ect) and dogfish from piers in the salt.
First question is the always-present whats your favorite brand? More than favorite brand, I am interested in brands you've had bad experiences with. From old posts I gather Spiderline is not very good - it frays quickly and is generally not as good as others. Does anyone have an opinion on Berkley Big Game braid, or Sufix 832? Tuf-line XP seems to be highly recommended, and Power Pro is also recommended. Im leaning towards whichever I can find cheaper, which seems to be to Power Pro. I see some bad reviews for the slick 8, does anyone have bad experiences with it?
Power Pro leaves me asking what color I should use. I dont think I particularly need a hi-vis line, so white/yellow are out. That leaves blue, two greens, red, and brown (between regular and slick 8 lines of line) Im leaning towards the regular (not slick 8 ) green. It seems to be readily available in whatever size spool and test I want, and seems to fit the bill of fishing Fraser/ocean. I would be using a leader regardless of color.
Finally I come to how much should I spool on. I see lots of recommendations of using some mono to fill up the spool a bit first, and the reel Im getting calls for 390 yards of 15lb mono, which is a lot of 40lb braid. I also dont think I need 400+ yards of braid on there. How much braid do I want on a bar fishing/pier fishing setup? 150 yards? 300 yards? I was thinking, if I use only 150 yards of braid, I'll need mono thats strong enough to keep up, so 40lb or whatever, but if I had 300 yards of braid then my mono would only really be needed to fill the spool, so I could use something smaller like 15lb mono?
I use Power Pro because it works well and also is the most recommended brand (in my opinion). I used it today, on both bait-casting reels and spinning reels (they have different specific lines for specific applications, so don't just buy "Power Pro line", ya gotta get more into the details than that.)
Good luck out there!
P.S. Seaguar is now the most recommended flourocarbon line (for your leader), from what I can tell. Does that mean it's the best? Maybe, maybe not, but I know it's good stuff. Does seem to break at lower strengths than the (under-pounds-tested?) Maxima Ultragreen (non-fluorocarbon) leader material, however. My very favorite lure get Ultragreen.
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I use Power Pro because it works well and also is the most recommended brand (in my opinion). I used it today, on both bait-casting reels and spinning reels (they have different specific lines for specific applications, so don't just buy "Power Pro line", ya gotta get more into the details than that.)
Good luck out there!
P.S. Seaguar is now the most recommended flourocarbon line (for your leader), from what I can tell. Does that mean it's the best? Maybe, maybe not, but I know it's good stuff. Does seem to break at lower strengths than the (under-pounds-tested?) Maxima Ultragreen (non-fluorocarbon) leader material, however. My very favorite lure get Ultragreen.
Little late for main line recommendations lol already have my Chinese braid all spooled up.
Thanks for the input on leader though.
Now its all about knots that work well and are easy to tie...
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Good discussion. Nothing is worse than limp, twisty braid. I seldom use any braid less than 20 lb test, and most often it's 50 lb test. Fine diameter braid is slippery and digs into itself on the spool. A Giant snakehead will twist and turn when fighting and totally screw up the first 30 feet of line in a battle.
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Isn't this what swivels were designed to prevent? I fish Suffix 832 on my spinning reel and toss spoons and spinners all day long with no line digging issues or line twist. However I do always run a swivel. This braid rocks I absolutely love it! Have tried several other braids and hated them especially Fire Line Fused. SeaGuar Kanzen is pretty decent I have that in 50lb on a levelwind for the Fraser.