Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => The Fish Kitchen => Topic started by: Navy Seal Fisherman on September 26, 2010, 02:06:51 PM
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original thread: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=24924.0
Here is a link to my photo summary on the smoking process:
http://picasaweb.google.com/114076504906753337732/SmokingSockeye?authkey=Gv1sRgCMrX8s2ho6-45QE&feat=email#
Thanks AF for the the support and detailed info, it turned out pretty good. did two batches. Now I can experiment
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Looks totally awesome. What kind of chips did you use ?
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Thanks, Alder pucks from Bradley
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Looks great! Were you happy with the salt content? I use probably 1/3 of what it looks like you used. I'm pretty cheap so I use the minimum I need to.
Just a comment on your smoked product..... If you bring up the temperature a little slower you won't have any of the white formation on your product. It doesn't make any difference on taste, just how it looks!
What are you thinking of doing different next time?
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Thanks, I was thinking of dropping my timing to 2 hrs for the ends and 2.5 for the little thicker pieces. they were all 4-6 pound sockeyes. I could have been less generous on the thickness of my brine mix, but due to the container , I had to build up my stacks 4 high, but I tried laying down 1/4 inch. Next time I will try putting meat to meat, skin to skin so I can cut down on the layering. (i.e. put the mix between only the meat sides). I had the temperature between 40-50 for the 1st 2 hrs and 60 for the 2nd 2 hrs and 150-160 for the last hour. I was told that amount of fat is also an indicator of how far in the cycle the fish is ( i.e chrome ocean ones have less fat seepage and river salmon have more) I do know, from reading, that initial heat application should be kept low. I though 40-50 for the first 2 hrs was low enough.
I didn't see as much pellicle after refrigeration as I was expecting. That may be a factor.
The people that have tried it say they liked it. I'd like it a touch less salty, just a touch. I did try light maple syrup from costco on about 1/3 of the pieces but it did not come out sweet at all. actually no noticeable maple flavor. I am curious about the candying aspect and would like to try that. 2/3 of what I did make had ground fresh pepper, chili powder and some parsley
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If you would like to be more like candy I found out that cutting them into cubes or stripe works 10x better!!! They taste better as they have more exposed surface area to the "sauce" and when smoking they don't get the white film that you can get on the top like yours. You don't even have to be picky with the temp either when cut thin vs slabs and it can finish faster and more even as well.
I'll never do it any other way again!!!
Here is a pic of what it looks like when done this way. These are all pinks.
***Note*** Not all the peices are from the same batch and brine. The ones on the bottom that look like candy are just a wine brine and no glaze and they turned out the best.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab168/willow187/IMGP1789.jpg)
And note that refrigeration doesn't make the pellicle as it slows the drying which creates the pellicle. It just keep the fish from spoiling while drying. I'll take it out of the fridge and put a fan on it for a hour or 2 to ensure it has set right (pellicle) and then into the smoker it goes. If you can put a fan in the fridge it will happen much, much faster and would be ideal!!!
And I don't bother wasting my time and money on a glaze as it is not needed when done this way. My brine is the glaze!!!
Give it a go!!!
Doja
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Thanks Doja. So what is candy exactly?. is it caramelising of the sugars on the outside like a candy apple? I have never tried candied salmon. and what forms the coating? i.e. constant basting?
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Here is another one for candy from the IronNoggin
http://forum.fishbc.com/index.php?showtopic=26851
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Thanks Nicefish, that candy looks amazing. I would love to try one of his. The cost of the ingredients is pretty steep. would be good to know if I liked it before I invest.
AF & Doja , doing another batch right now, drying on the counter this time under a fan instead of the fridge overnight. I'll see what the pellicle looks like in 2-3 hours. I am going to try a honey & maple syrup mix on maybe 1/2 of the fillets to see how that goes.
Thanks for all you time and inputs guys... BTW by temp info I gave in the opening thread, I mixed F and C in that description. I will try and keep it to 40 for the first 2 hrs, then gradually increase to 60 for the next 2 then 70 for the next 1-2 hrs... If anyone thinks these are too high, let me know....cheers
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If you are going to baste it with honey/maple syrup I would recommend doing so in the last two hours of smoking. I usually baste if the outside is drying out before the inside is done. I use fireweed honey with a touch of water. I haven't used a recipe with more salt:sugar before... sounds salty. If you want it to be more like candy brine it for longer in a brine with mostly sugar and or cut the pieces into thin strips. With the type of cut you used I would have put slits down to the skin about 1 inch apart to help in brine and cook more thoroughly. I usually only leave the tail and belly meat in pieces like you have and the rest I cut into strips about 1-1 1/2 inch wide. My mild brine for red salmon to retain the flavour is 1 cup Kosher salt to 2 bags demerrea brown sugar. Brine for approximately 16 hours. My Dry Brine Candy recipe (which is good on all salmon but especially White Springs): http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=21851.msg216780#msg216780 http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22987.msg217493#msg217493
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Why last 2 hrs? Yes my salt mix is higher but i also just keep it in for 3 hrs...thx your stuff looks amazing.. pls describe the taste
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Thanks Doja. So what is candy exactly?. is it caramelising of the sugars on the outside like a candy apple? I have never tried candied salmon. and what forms the coating? i.e. constant basting?
The drying forms the coat, with the help of the brine (I'd think wet is better), not basting, and I'd suspect is where the name candy comes from however some recipes like to use more sugar and add honey to make it sweeter and that may be true "candy", but I'm not a fan of overly sweet things and am happy with my brine.
What I use is,
1/4 cup coarse salt
1 cup soya sauce
1 cup water
3 cups dry white wine
garlic powder
onion powder
1/2 cup brown sugar or Demetra
Tabasco sauce
Soak for 24 hrs
Not a lot of sugar and no honey but it turns out very good. I don't rinse them when I remove from the brine, just hang and dry thoroughly! And I'm pretty sure the booze (alcohol) helps make the flavors more adsorb-able.
If you are using a dry brine you may want to look at using a wet or wetter brine as you can add more flavor stuff that will soak into the fish better if cut into stripes. I'm sure the soya sauce helps create the pellicle. I've even done recipes with sweet chili sauce (quite cheap) and they turned out very good too. You can do a lot of experimenting with sauces and they all help create a good pellicle.
The hardest part is getting the pellicle to set right. Right now it is ~76% humidity... may take a while but if done right you will have a great looking product with a great texture. Remember, the sauce helps create the pellicle! but it doesn't have to be just plain sugar and honey....
I've tried basting but have over done it with not so great results and have stopped the practice as it is not really needed if done properly.
Why last 2 hrs? Yes my salt mix is higher but i also just keep it in for 3 hrs...thx your stuff looks amazing.. pls describe the taste
Because it can be done wrong with bad results.... I've been there before with the baste and if it drys too much it can leave sugar crystals which are not good!!!!
Just focus on a good pellicle and you won't need to baste. trust me!!!! And try a wet brine as well!!!
Note - nogs batch took 36 hrs to dry and I usually leave it in the fridge for 24 hrs and then set out to dry some more and then smoke. This is a very important step to a great result.
And I see you let the fish sit in the brine for only 3 hrs, not a bad thing but you won't get much absorbed from the flavors you add and that is what you want. You need 12 - 24 hrs for good absorption and I don't know how that fits in with a dry brine. I don't use dry brine's, only wet's.
Good luck!
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Why last 2 hrs? Yes my salt mix is higher but i also just keep it in for 3 hrs...thx your stuff looks amazing.. pls describe the taste
Like I said I use it to keep the outside moist while the inside cooks but it is also good because it lets the smoke flavour penetrate the fish first and then adds some extra sweetness at the end so that you have the smokey flavour and the sweet glaze will be more noticeable. All the smoking recipes I have seen call for the glaze at the end. But I suppose you could preglaze too. In the Dry Candy recipe I posted I do not rinse off the brine like in alwaysfishin recipe so it is like having a preglaze I suppose. Glazing near the end will add more sweetness to your finished product and give it more of a shiny appearance (But it will also be more sticky). If you want it extra sweet you can glaze it once it is done too but it will be extra gooey. With my dry brine candy recipe I usually don't glaze it unless I need to moisten the outside. You can experiment with many diffent types of glazes made of a combination of maple syrup, honey, brown sugar, water, bourbon, molasses, etc. I mostly smoke red/white springs with the Dry Brine Candy recipe and the result is sweet candy coated outside that retains some moisture and lots of oil on the inside and does not taste salty at all. The mild brine recipe I posted mostly just tastes like the fish. Both are very tasty IMHO and those I have given it to say it is the best smoked salmon they have ever had...
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After my cedar smoker went up in flames, I was gifted a brand new Bradley digital 4 rack smoker from my parents (i have no idea why? maybe they felt it was safe than me trying to build another).
SO with that being said, I will be smoking up my first batch sometime this week, I'm going to use alwaysfishn's recipe however I may glazed one rack with maple syrup an hour or so before it's done.
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Also maybe I didnt catch this, but how long does it roughly take for the pellicle to form in the fridge vs. how long it will take if I put a fan on the fish in a small room with a window open?
I'm trying to basically smoke my fish through a work day so I can go out fishing on the weekend ;D
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I leave my fish in the fridge for about 12 hours. At the end the fish has a nice shine to it and is slightly sticky to the touch. I tried a fan once and I think it took about 3 to 4 hours.
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I have done both now in the last 3 days. 1st batch was overnight, 2nd batch was 6 hrs in the fridge and today's batch was 3.5 hours with a fan blowing straight on to them. The pellicle turn out about the same all 3 x. Like AF is saying, its tacky to the touch but crusting over. I have got a batch in right now as I am typing this. I just sampled a bit while its still smoking after 5 hrs. As these slices are a little thicker I decided to brine for 1/2 hr less and I think it may be the right saltiness to my taste. I glazed 1/2 of them at the 4 hr mark. I could be wrong, and it could be a taste thing, but i think if you go with a saltier brine, then stay away from the sweet glaze. If you want a sweet product then start off with a sweeter brine. I get the feeling these pieces that I glazed may be like the sweet and salty kettle popcorn. In short either go sweet or salty but I am not sure I want to have both..if that makes any sense.
I would NOT leave you smoker unattended while you are at work. Read some Bradley FAQ on google. potential fire hazzard. the pucks don't always move well and will fill up in the water bowel. They can pile high and tip over into the heater. Also if the puck fails to drop sit will but not be a good burn. You want a fresh puck every 20min.
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I'm trying to think of a way to schedule the brine and the air drying around my work schedule so that when i get home at 4 they can go directly into the smoker.
I think I will put it in the fridge as it takes the longest which is probably the easiest way if i brine the fish at midnight, get up early at 4, then fridge dry till 4pm when i get home from work and into the smoker they go...sounds fool proof?
I'm smoking sockeye as well, the the 2/3 salt to 1/3 sugar did you find it fairly salty? or just like you said, brine it for a little shorter of time?
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re: brining if your slabs are 6/7 lb socks I'd do 3 hrs, if 4/5 I'd do 2.5 hr. I just pulled mine out of the smoker and they are fine re: saltiness. They were thicker slabs and so i did almost 3 hrs. You have to be awake for that less you forget. At 2.5 hours I take1 top piece off, rinse under water and touch my tongue to it to gauge it's saltiness. Rinse alittle more and try. If ok then remove. I put the thicker pieces at the bottom. I judge how long they stay based on the taste test.
When ready take em out, rinse them off and pat dry w/paper towel. I'd through them in the fridge and go to work. Smoke them when you get home. Mine just took 6 hrs. The 1st 2 batches took 5 hrs.
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my last batch, honey and maply glazed;
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Oops, forgot the link;
http://picasaweb.google.com/114076504906753337732/LastBatch?authkey=Gv1sRgCNuv8K6pyczQ9wE#5522009591165506978
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Looks good, when did you apply the glaze and how did it turn out?
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at the 4 hr mark. it was just a maple syrup honey mix. It didn't make it very sweet but it took a bit of the salt edge out. end product was nice and moist, good flavor and a very light crust
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Do you think if I let it sit in the fridge for about 16 hours after I rinse off the brine, would it make a huge difference on the quality of the fish?
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Do you think if I let it sit in the fridge for about 16 hours after I rinse off the brine, would it make a huge difference on the quality of the fish?
If it's in the fridge it sure won't hurt it....
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I would agree with AF. Let us know how it turns out, with pics ;]
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well I went to crappy tire to get some alder pucks however they didn't have any nor does it look like they even carry them?
i'll just have to wait till thursday when army and navy is open late to get some i guess, did you find it took much time to figure out how to work the smoker or was it pretty easy right from the start?
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2 things; maple pucks are good for fish too. re: smoker you need to have 3 more pucks then you actually plan on burning because of the length of the arm to the burning plate. If you have any further questions I can call you..cheers
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thanks, all the had listed on the shelf is apple and mesquite...seems odd since they are the only store on the northshore that sells pucks i think.... i know about the 3 extra pucks, have you thought about buying the fake pucks as to not waste the real ones?
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thanks, all the had listed on the shelf is apple and mesquite...seems odd since they are the only store on the northshore that sells pucks i think.... i know about the 3 extra pucks, have you thought about buying the fake pucks as to not waste the real ones?
The 3 pucks aren't really wasted, they get used the next time you use the smoker. I never take the extra pucks out, but then I only use hickory pucks for smoking.
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You can order the pucks from Bradley online. the 3 extra pucks don't burn, they just push . 1 might get scorched a bit.
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In the Bradley puck package is a recipe for Cold Smoked sockeye. They mention a "meat cure" Does anyone know just what they mean by meat cure? I would like to try cold smoking and have all the equipment but don't know exactly waht to do. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
Thanks, Greg
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Try this out, you will love it..............for sure. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh_BCI1yrfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k73cD5bdEc0
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Thanks Staffy, great videos....picked up some good tips
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If you want real good lox style sockeye try this recipe out.
One of the guys from the Bradley smoking forum came
up with it.
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?103-The-Best-Smoked-LOX-Style-Salmon
This is all I use to cold smoke Salmon.
Ross
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Sounds great. I'll have to give it a go with some of my sockeye filets.
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If you need Bradley smoking supplies, ie pucks, try this place in Burnaby
http://www.wellscan.ca/home.php
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Ross:
This is exactly what I was looking for.....I knew someone out there would come up with a great recipe.
Thanks
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well it's been in the smoker for about an hour now...first time ive ever turned the bradley smoker on, do you find you have to keep the oven on for a bit then off to keep the temps around 100 degrees
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If you are cold smoking Salmon you do not want to use the main element in your Bradley. The fat will start to render above 90 degrees.
If you are hot smoking you want to ramp the temp up slowly. I start at 125 for the first hour and increase gradually over the smoke time.
The Bradley recipe site has the times that are a basic guide.
Ross
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here is my first smoking process
the supplies
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee375/cgpconstruction/SAM_1285.jpg)
the mix 2/3 salt to 1/3 brown sugar
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee375/cgpconstruction/SAM_1286.jpg)
sockeye prepared and ready for brine
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee375/cgpconstruction/SAM_1287.jpg)
and in the brine
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee375/cgpconstruction/SAM_1288.jpg)
about 2 1/2 hours later
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee375/cgpconstruction/SAM_1289.jpg)
into the fridge to dry out....16 hours, top right is coated with maple syrup (4 coats prior to smoking), bottom right is pepper + chili flakes
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee375/cgpconstruction/SAM_1290.jpg)
final product
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee375/cgpconstruction/SAM_1303.jpg)
I literally turned the bradley smoker on and in this went so it was a learning process, I smoked first two hours at around 100f and the next 2.5 was a slow climb up to 160f
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Looks good! Were you happy with the taste?
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Yes, love the dry brine thanks for sharing.
It's dry but very moist on the inside at the same time, doesn't taste salt what so ever, it's basically perfect. I found that it smoked quicker than I thought when I cut them up into pieces as opposed to being slabs
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I made some lox sockeye with dry brine and some hot smoke black cod on Sunday, it turns out excellent like the one from restaurant. The texture and the taste are both perfect, but I cannot post the pictures here because the file is too big to download. Can some one give me a hints how to re-size the pictures?
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i uploaded mine to photobucket and it re-sized them in the process
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I use Picasa Web. Create an account and upload your pictures and then just post the link.
https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?hl=en_US&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fpicasaweb.google.com%2Flh%2Flogin%3Fcontinue%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fpicasaweb.google.com%252Fhome&service=lh2<mpl=gp&passive=true
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Here's is some of the pictures of the lox sockeye,
http://picasaweb.google.com.tw/dixonchu/LoxSockeyeOct32010?authkey=Gv1sRgCOzbp4j3uY_kngE&feat=email#
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nice, my question is, how do u know when it's done, from a bacterium perspective?
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If you let the fish/meat sitting in a place at room temperature for over 2 hours, then you may need to worry about it.
In the whole process except in the smoker, I only let the fish sit under the fan for 1 hour and then put it back to the fridge for around 30 hours.
When the fish is done from the smoker, let it cool down for 20 minutes and vacuum seal it and back to the freezer right a way.
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If you want real good lox style sockeye try this recipe out.
One of the guys from the Bradley smoking forum came
up with it.
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?103-The-Best-Smoked-LOX-Style-Salmon
This is all I use to cold smoke Salmon.
Ross
Ross:
I finally tried the recipe and it worked out better than I would have believed. Even the wife loves IT. Can't say thanks enough!!!