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Author Topic: Slippery soles.  (Read 5710 times)

Spawn Sack

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Slippery soles.
« on: January 08, 2017, 07:19:01 AM »

So was fishing yesterday morning (-9) and noticed that my felt soles were freezing solid. Not such and issue when standing in water as they would thaw and grip the rocks under water fine. However if I were to stand on a rock in the river, but out of the water, my felts would first freeze to the rock. After I popped them loose the situation would worsen as the frozen felts would make standing on the rock very tough. Bush wacking to different spots was also tough as the frozen/snow packed felts would slip all over the place. I fell about 6-7 times throughout the day, luckily just minor slips followed by a laugh, no big deal.

However I'd like to "fix this" for future outings.

I don't really want to "modify" my go-to boots (Simms Guide) as I wear them in boats, etc and don't want the soles full of studs. However I have 2 other pairs of older felt boots that I would have no problem adding studs to.

Friend I was fishing with yesterday said he used to have Korkers with the aluma-bite soles and they were awesome on slippery/frozen rocks, but the boots themselves did not last that long.

I would entertain the idea of having a dedicated winter set of wading boots as I'd like a size bigger anyway. I'm running a size 11 up from a 9.5 street shoe which is normally fine, but for cold weather fishing I'd like even a size bigger so I can put another pair of socks on (possibly over the neoprene boot).

I think I've also seen, possibly by Patagonia (?) a slip on/over sole for your existing boots that had an alumabite style sole.

What I know for sure is if I keep slipping on rocks/trails when it's this cold I'm eventually going to rip my waders/jacket, or damage a rod or reel - or break a bone! Then I'll go out and buy new boots or modify and existing pair. I'd prefer to up my game before this happens. 
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Spawn Sack

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2017, 09:48:19 AM »

I'll probably try and rig something up like this guy has done. I'll try a few fab shops and see if I can get some aluminum bar stock in the right size. If not I'll just buy the Patagonia replacement kit and install on one of my back up wading boots.

https://troutbitten.com/2015/02/13/diy-bar-boots/

or this

http://brooksidehillbilly.blogspot.ca/2014/11/diy-aluminum-bars-for-your-wading-boots.html

« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 09:52:40 AM by Spawn Sack »
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dobrolub

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2017, 09:51:17 AM »

I installed studs from the link below. Haven't used them long enough to make a  personal recommendation, but according to my internet research those are good studs.

http://www.gripstuds.com/Waderboots.php
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RalphH

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 09:54:22 AM »

Just wait till you walk some distance in snow and it freezes to the felts so you have soles that are  2 to 3 inches thicker.

If you are going to buy new boots get a pair of Simms Stream tread boots. You can add cleats.

If you want to modify an existing felt pair Simms makes screw in studs for felt soles.

You can also google DIY modifications: http://www.questoutdoors.net/gear/articles/diy_studs/

Never tried that and can't vouch for it.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 09:57:02 AM by RalphH »
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BNF861

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2017, 10:23:21 AM »

Aluminum bars are the best wading traction by far but scary on ice.

Carbite studded vibram is probably the best for snow/ice. The studs bite into the ice and snow doesn't stick to vibram like it does felt.
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kanuckle head

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2017, 10:38:36 AM »

I fished yesterday with the bars and if the snow gets icy packed the aluminum bars are in no way any traction
I now know not to wear my boots with the bars for they are way too dangerous, but for the slimy rocks there are a must

Better off with studs
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HOOK

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2017, 12:19:48 PM »

Patagonia makes a strap on set of cleat spikes. There is a couple other brands out there as well but the Pat's look to be best but pricey. These would be your best bet or just buy a new pair of boots with vibram soles and add in the carbide cleats. I walked on lots of smooth ice yesterday ad my carbides made it like I was walking on regular ground and mine have 2 seasons of wear on them
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Walleye76

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RalphH

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2017, 06:35:31 PM »

there is something (maybe someone can explain it better) about the texture of aluminum on rock that makes it so good for wading - but they slip on ice. My experience long ago with aluminum studs was they break fairly quickly and after 6 months I was left with just little nubbins of rivet. Spikes stub on rock slip easily but work fairly well on rocky cobble. Right now I use Sims hard bite cleats and studs on vibram stream tread.
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clarkii

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2017, 08:12:24 PM »

As mentioned previously, felt soles are excellent for gaining 2 to 3 inches of height in a hurry in winter.  If you want a winter boot , go with vibram soles and stud them
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Spawn Sack

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2017, 08:22:17 AM »

Thanks guys. I think when I am in the market for a new pair of wading boots I'll go Vibram, and stud them in the winter. Would definitely consider a pair of Korkers with the changeable soles. Hoping their quality has improved as when I bought my Simms Guide boots 2 years ago word on the street was the Korkers are cool/nifty, but don't last.

I have a few buddies who have gone Vibram and they don't find their summer/fall slip rate has gone up bush wacking into spots or wade fishing. If anything I am usually the one who slips and falls on slippery mud trails! Cost/benefit wise for the type of terrain I fish on I just don't think I'd go felt again.

I'm not in the market for new boots right now so I'll make due with what I have. Going to put the felt Simms boots away right now as they are just b-r-u-t-a-l on the snow ice. Plan is to take 1 pair of back up felts and stud the crap out of them. Will use these if walking into places that are likely to be icy. Gonna take the other pair and make my own aluminum bar boots. Will try these if I'm expecting no/little ice and more slippery rocks to navigate.

I realize both of these modified felt boots will pack up with snow and render the added grip more of less useless :o I'm not terraibly worried about this as the spots I've fished lately have been fine punching through snow on flat terrain. It's the packed snow/ice going up or downhill that has been brutal.

Curious if anyone has a newer pair of Korkers and what they think of them.
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96XJ

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2017, 12:37:30 PM »

I have a pair of Korkers which are about a year and a half old , so newer , with both rubber and felt soles and love them , used both soles in different situations and so far so good
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Animal Chin

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2017, 03:21:17 PM »

Curious if anyone has a newer pair of Korkers and what they think of them.

I just got a pair of Korkers Whitehorse for $99 US. I haven't used them yet, and would've preferred laces but they were the right price. I got the package with studded soles (usually $30 more than the felt package). The soles were easy to change and seem legit. Well made, very light.

I take a size 8 street shoe, and sent back the 9s (too roomy) for a pair of 8s. My waders stockingfeet fit me just perfect though with a pair of thick socks. Two pairs of socks and it's a bit tight but doable. You'd be ok sizing up, no heel lift, but I prefer a snugger fit. Think the Boa system makes it a bit more roomy because I've tried on their recent model lace up boot and a 9 fit perfect.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/s~korker-whitehorse/?perPage=24
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Snagly

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 06:46:08 PM »

Kold Kutter makes the most cost-effective studs for wading boots. The are carbide and typically last a season before requiring replacement. Check out:

http://koldkutter.com/products

You want the AMA #8's, 3/8" and a pack of 250 will cost you US$20.60 plus postage (and duty if you're in BC). Amazon often has smaller quantities but on a per stud basis you're better off getting a 10 year supply up front.

* * * * *

I have used the Grip Studs and Simms replacement studs and they work fine, but the Kold Kutters work at least as well if not better. They were originally developed to provide grip to motorcycle tires for winter ice racing purposes.

Warning: they are not boat interior-friendly, and you have to exercise care if you wear them in an inflatable as the tungsten edges are sharp. I've not put in holes in boats or waders, but it's certainly a possibility.
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Spawn Sack

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Re: Slippery soles.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2017, 05:57:41 PM »

Well, the boots are finally done! I used them the other day walking on some rocks I had previously slipped on with studded (just the cheap machine screws) felt. The alumabars work awesome! They do indeed grip the rocks like Velcro. The boots were a fair bit of a pain to make. Honestly I would recommend just buy the Patagonia boots or the Korkers. But, if you are like me and you like to tinker with/make stuff then it is a fun project!

Materials I used:

-A pair of suitable boots. I was lucky that a brand new pair of wading boots in the size I normally wear were given to me. They are felt soled. I imagine a vibram/rubber sole would be better for winter fishing as the felt will pack up with snow if it is on the ground (like it is now). However these boots were free so of course I used them.

-Aluminum bar. I bought from Home Depot. 4 feet in length, 1/8 thick, 3/4 wide. If you can find thicker than 1/8 (even up to 1/4) I would buy that. All they had was 1/8 so I bought that and it seems to be fine.

-1/4-20x3/4 machine screws. I used 18

-1/4-20x1 machine screws. I used 4 for the heel (thicker than the rest of the sole on my boots, so longer screws were needed here).

-1/4-20 T-nuts. I used 22. You can get them in flanged or un-flanged. I used the flanged ones, but if all you can get is unflanged they should be fine too.

-Drill bits: 1/4 to drill into aluminum, 15/32 to counter-sink into aluminum so the machine screws sit flat, 5/16 to drill into sole of boot (1/4 is a bit too tight for the T-nuts, need to go 5/16).

Procedure:

-Get some paper and trace your boots out. Do the left boot and right boot. Figure out your plan for how many bars you want and how long they need to be. On each boot I decided to do 4 bars that are 3 inches long, and 1 that is 4 inches long. About 1.5 inch space between bars.

-After you are happy with your plan on paper, it's time to start cutting the aluminum bar!

-Measure, draw lines on the metal, and cut each bar with a hacksaw. This is much easier to do if you have a vice. Use a file to clean up the cut edges (optional).

-Place the head of the machine screw on the metal, and figure out your screw spacing. When you get it right trace out the head of the screw with a pencil on the aluminum. Take a punch and put a nice dent in the middle of each traced out screw head spot (so your drill but doesn't move when you start to drill).

-Drill out each one with 1/4 drill bit. Then, carefully so you don't drill right through the metal, countersink with a 15/32 bit. Test each one and make sure the screw sits flush.

-Once these are all done you are ready to drill into the soles of the boots!

-Take the paper template and place it over the sole of the boot. Place the bar where it is going to go and mark the holes with a jiffy or nail, etc. Drill the holes out with a 5/16 bit.

-The last and hardest step is to get the T-nuts in place. I devised a way to make it easy. Get a long (3 or so inches) bolt with the same threads as your machine screws. Thread 2 nuts (I first tried 1 nut but it spun a bit) onto it about 1 inch up. Place a big washer over the bolt (if you don't use a washer the nut will dig into the felt). You use this to "pull" the T-nuts down into place. You will not be able to get enough torque with a screw driver so use a ratchet. Also try to find a bolt with a robvertson head as a phillips will drive you nuts.

-Poke the bolt up through the sole of the boot and "grab" (thread into) the T-nut. Keep screwing the bolt farther into the T-nut until it pulls it all the way down and flush with the sole of the boot (feel inside with your fingers and make sure each T-nut is nicely flush). I used an electric drill to quickly back the bolt out and move on to the next T-Nut. After you finish all the T-nuts you are done!

A few comments:

-I used a drop of blue locktite on each machine screw. Not sure if it holds up for such applications. An alternative would be a dab of silicone on each screw.
-Cost of materials was about $25, but like I said I got the boots for free!
-As I said unless you like doing this sort of thing and have the tools save yourself the headache and just buy boots that come like this.
-Total time about 4-5 hours.

















« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 09:21:39 PM by Spawn Sack »
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