Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: joc80 on August 16, 2014, 08:36:21 PM
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Went out thursday. Fishing sucked due to the native opening. But it was still nice to get out and not be working lol
I just wanted to comment on a few things.
1) the natives had thier opening. Big deal. They were doing everything within the rules. So when i saw them drifting thier net past grassy, is it really a big deal to bring in your line or wait to cast and just let them thru? Jesus. I saw guys whipping thier betties at the boat swearing and threatening them. The fish are moving. So whatever they scoop up, more will be there to replace those ones.
2) the squatters with thier camps setup on the bars. All i gotta say is you dont own it just because you have a tebt setup there. No i dont have any interest in setting up where you and 15 of your buddies are fishing. But to run out of your tent yelling at us to get the hell out of here just because we slowed down for a minute to grab something out of the cooler kinda makes me want to fly into the bar and start casting
I have been fishing since i was born. I am in my mid-thirties now. I have 3 kids of my own and i just want to see them enjoy fishing like i do. But sockeye fishing is really a disgusting display of greed. First time i went sockeye fishing in 5 years. I think i will wait again until the fall when most of these "fishermen" hang up thier gear for the year.
End of rant. I have a lot more choice words to use here. But they arent g rated.
We did find a few bars with no one there and it was a somewhat enjoyable day. Sure no fish, but when the numbers are really there i am sure therr would be a few hooked. If and thats a big if, we go out again i know which little islands we will hit. If we catch 3 to the other bars 10 you can be sure it was a much more relaxing and enjoyable day for us thab the 150 people packed on pegleg!
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Nothing new in that rant. If you have sufficient warning that sockeye fishing is a total gong show and you do it anyway you really can't complain.
Well, it is the internet so I guess you can complain. You just won't get any sympathy.
A recent immigrant that I work with asked where he can take his kids to go sockeye fishing.
I gave him the complete lowdown on how inappropriate that would be but he decided to go anyway.
Nothing more to say.
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Went out thursday. Fishing sucked due to the native opening. But it was still nice to get out and not be working lol
I just wanted to comment on a few things.
1) the natives had thier opening. Big deal. They were doing everything within the rules. So when i saw them drifting thier net past grassy, is it really a big deal to bring in your line or wait to cast and just let them thru? Jesus. I saw guys whipping thier betties at the boat swearing and threatening them. The fish are moving. So whatever they scoop up, more will be there to replace those ones.
2) the squatters with thier camps setup on the bars. All i gotta say is you dont own it just because you have a tebt setup there. No i dont have any interest in setting up where you and 15 of your buddies are fishing. But to run out of your tent yelling at us to get the hell out of here just because we slowed down for a minute to grab something out of the cooler kinda makes me want to fly into the bar and start casting
I have been fishing since i was born. I am in my mid-thirties now. I have 3 kids of my own and i just want to see them enjoy fishing like i do. But sockeye fishing is really a disgusting display of greed. First time i went sockeye fishing in 5 years. I think i will wait again until the fall when most of these "fishermen" hang up thier gear for the year.
End of rant. I have a lot more choice words to use here. But they arent g rated.
We did find a few bars with no one there and it was a somewhat enjoyable day. Sure no fish, but when the numbers are really there i am sure therr would be a few hooked. If and thats a big if, we go out again i know which little islands we will hit. If we catch 3 to the other bars 10 you can be sure it was a much more relaxing and enjoyable day for us thab the 150 people packed on pegleg!
I was out during the native opening too and saw the same thing. I don't understand that the same people that rant about natives not working get mad when they go to work. It is frustrating early in the run and fishing is spotty but I guess that is what happens when their opening has priority. I never ran into campers but I would enjoy that kind of confrontation.
It has been fun the last couple of outings.
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That is why I stopped fishing for sockeyes for years now.....
Its not worth the hassles...
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I usually go fish a couple spots where fly fishing is effective. I did however camp out on Pegleg with my dad, my boys and a couple buddies. It was busy but not a total gong show until around 11am. We would have been done and gone if we hadn't had so many pop off near shore (stupid us for forgetting the net !) We were done by noon, packed up and took all our stuff out. Then my boys fished a little in the side channel for course fish using sockeye hearts and had a blast ;D
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Went out thursday. Fishing sucked due to the native opening. But it was still nice to get out and not be working lol
I just wanted to comment on a few things.
1) the natives had thier opening. Big deal. They were doing everything within the rules. So when i saw them drifting thier net past grassy, is it really a big deal to bring in your line or wait to cast and just let them thru? Jesus. I saw guys whipping thier betties at the boat swearing and threatening them. The fish are moving. So whatever they scoop up, more will be there to replace those ones.
2) the squatters with thier camps setup on the bars. All i gotta say is you dont own it just because you have a tebt setup there. No i dont have any interest in setting up where you and 15 of your buddies are fishing. But to run out of your tent yelling at us to get the hell out of here just because we slowed down for a minute to grab something out of the cooler kinda makes me want to fly into the bar and start casting
I have been fishing since i was born. I am in my mid-thirties now. I have 3 kids of my own and i just want to see them enjoy fishing like i do. But sockeye fishing is really a disgusting display of greed. First time i went sockeye fishing in 5 years. I think i will wait again until the fall when most of these "fishermen" hang up thier gear for the year.
End of rant. I have a lot more choice words to use here. But they arent g rated.
We did find a few bars with no one there and it was a somewhat enjoyable day. Sure no fish, but when the numbers are really there i am sure therr would be a few hooked. If and thats a big if, we go out again i know which little islands we will hit. If we catch 3 to the other bars 10 you can be sure it was a much more relaxing and enjoyable day for us thab the 150 people packed on pegleg!
It's not that reeling in your line and waiting for them to go past is difficult. But do you have a good reason why they can't do their drifting at another part of the river where there arent 100 other guys on the beach? I don't think I have to spell it out. Then you wonder why lots of people hate them. It's not about what they're doing, it's where they do it. Ruining a bunch of other people's day just because you can deserves whatever the shore anglers think of them
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It's not that reeling in your line and waiting for them to go past is difficult. But do you have a good reason why they can't do their drifting at another part of the river where there arent 100 other guys on the beach? I don't think I have to spell it out. Then you wonder why lots of people hate them. It's not about what they're doing, it's where they do it. Ruining a bunch of other people's day just because you can deserves whatever the shore anglers think of them
They have sections that they are allowed to fish and maybe that is a perfect drift slot ! Sit down have a drink let them pass and don't get your panties in a bunch.
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It's not that reeling in your line and waiting for them to go past is difficult. But do you have a good reason why they can't do their drifting at another part of the river where there arent 100 other guys on the beach? I don't think I have to spell it out. Then you wonder why lots of people hate them. It's not about what they're doing, it's where they do it. Ruining a bunch of other people's day just because you can deserves whatever the shore anglers think of them
Their are many things I dont agree with when it comes to the native fishery but location is not one of them. Unlike us fishermen they own land right on the river and if that land is where they fish who the heck are we to tell them not to fish there. If they are drifting a section of the river where their are lots of anglers you gotta sit and wait. Tough luck.
I love how people who bottom bounce are always coming on here complaining of the crowds ( in which they are part of the problem ) the personal conduct of others, the garbage, the whole ownership of space etc etc. If it is really that bad than why participate? Isnt fishing ( which this is not ) supposed to be fun, relaxing and enjoyable? How is this enjoyable? Another thing I cant understand is how parents subject their children to this fishery. It makes me shake my head.
I dont care if you want to snag your fish for harvest but stop complaining as you do have a choice.
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Let me guess #2 = Seabird Island...
I think they need to put in a reg like steelhead. After your limit for socks are achieved you must stop fishing. All these guys hit their 2 socks and just stay posted up hoping for a spring, cupcakes kicking the socks. If you want to fish just for springs, then you have roll the dice...
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The stop fishing reg would be a good one, why there are ideas for limit adjustments to better suit the overall survival.
I probably will not go out for sockeye for the rest of my life.
That will be a long, long time. However when you can buy them commercially; close to home, avoid the mma full contact fishing, and actually enjoy your fishing somewhere else it is not only cheaper but way less stressful!
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They have sections that they are allowed to fish and maybe that is a perfect drift slot ! Sit down have a drink let them pass and don't get your panties in a bunch.
So you really think out of all the sections they are allowed to fish the only drift slot is right in front of a bar of anglers? :-\ I doubt that. We've seen them do it and taunt the anglers on the bar and that's when people start getting pissed off.
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Natives will fish.We will fish.If a few natives resort to poor behavior.Who cares?That is their problem.Just stay out of the way of the nets.There are plenty of fish for every-one.Confrontation on this issue can help no-one.
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Well said, Riverman.
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So you really think out of all the sections they are allowed to fish the only drift slot is right in front of a bar of anglers? :-\ I doubt that. We've seen them do it and taunt the anglers on the bar and that's when people start getting pissed off.
What many like you fail to understand is that Each First Nation band has specific section of the Fraser River where they are allowed to fish. The section is further divided within the band and each fisher has a designated section where he or she can fish, so they are not choosing to drift in front of you, but rather they have to drift where you have decided to fish.
And as Riverman said it very well, bad behaviours will always occur among the few in each user group. More often than not, those bad behaviours paint the wrong picture of the entire group. You will see a few native fishermen who choose to initiate a confrontation, you'll also see some recreational participants who seem to think they own the river.
And like what bbronswyk2000 said, it's not a fishery where I would bring a kid out to unless you can find a way to avoid any of the above scenarios. If you're going out there and expect others to behave badly, then you will find it. If you go out and treat others with respect then you will be treated the same in return.
http://www.fraserbasin.bc.ca/_Library/FVR/Communications_Backgrounder_Peacemakers_Fishing-Tips-2014.pdf
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In general, yes, if you treat others with respect, you will be treated with respect too. However, there are people that just suck at life. They fall on both sides of the native/non-native divide. Last year, when the nets were not supposed to be in, a guy drifted a net down right in front of grassy, picked up, went to the point above the bar and parked his boat and disappeared before any report would have done any good. He is an example of a bad FN. The non-native examples are very evident many days up there on grassy. I would think long and hard before bringing my kid up to around that area.
The only way to be treated with respect by some of those that just suck at life is to avoid them all together which is sometimes hard to do.
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Here's the thing, this is basically their job so act professional out there. If it's their right to fish there, fine, but don't stir up crap while coming down. There's really no need for that even if they are being heckled from shore.
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What many like you fail to understand is that Each First Nation band has specific section of the Fraser River where they are allowed to fish. The section is further divided within the band and each fisher has a designated section where he or she can fish, so they are not choosing to drift in front of you, but rather they have to drift where you have decided to fish.
And as Riverman said it very well, bad behaviours will always occur among the few in each user group. More often than not, those bad behaviours paint the wrong picture of the entire group. You will see a few native fishermen who choose to initiate a confrontation, you'll also see some recreational participants who seem to think they own the river.
And like what bbronswyk2000 said, it's not a fishery where I would bring a kid out to unless you can find a way to avoid any of the above scenarios. If you're going out there and expect others to behave badly, then you will find it. If you go out and treat others with respect then you will be treated the same in return.
http://www.fraserbasin.bc.ca/_Library/FVR/Communications_Backgrounder_Peacemakers_Fishing-Tips-2014.pdf
A terrible fishery to take children to, oh for the day when many of us very young children started fishing with a worm catching trout, the excitement of catching our first fish that of course bite, flossing, TOWing, snagging, harvesting, good for the economy, F/N gill nets, commercial fishing or what every you want to call it or justify it was never in our minds not that many years ago.
Many now have lost what fishing once was and should still be about. It is nothing about be an elitist it what sports and recreational fishing should be about, give the fish the choice to bite or not.
It is good to see many people that once took part in this activity will never pick up at Bouncing Betty again except to get the lead off the river bed. There will be lots of them along with miles of discarded line and garbage to deal with when the season ends 3 weeks or so from now.
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A terrible fishery to take children to, oh for the day when many of us very young children started fishing with a worm catching trout, the excitement of catching our first fish that of course bite, flossing, TOWing, snagging, harvesting, good for the economy, F/N gill nets, commercial fishing or what every you want to call it or justify it was never in our minds not that many years ago.
Many now have lost what fishing once was and should still be about. It is nothing about be an elitist it what sports and recreational fishing should be about, give the fish the choice to bite or not.
It is good to see many people that once took part in this activity will never pick up at Bouncing Betty again except to get the lead off the river bed. There will be lots of them along with miles of discarded line and garbage to deal with when the season ends 3 weeks or so from now.
Good post buddy. I agree so many people have a sense of entitlement. They are also USING their kids in this fishery as way to keep more fish. Its not about bringing their kids to the river to have a good time fishing, its about the parents using the kids for their benefit.
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Here's what I don't understand about the sockeye fishery/madness that occurs down on the Fraser......
1. It isn't fun, I'd have to say its the least enjoyable fishing I've ever done. I and I'm sure most regulars on here would agree with me there and prefer spending all day with their centerpin chasing coho or cruising shoals searching for big hungry trout, rather than standing on the cobbles heaving bouncing betties and dangerously long leaders.
2. At most spots its a bonafide way to jack up your blood pressure.... not healthy! I don't go anywhere near the gong shows like Peg, Scale, Snaggy and yet when I find my somewhat secluded spot starts to fill up with homers, I have to leave before I do something I regret.
3. It's expensive, save me the "Oh I live in Chilliwack and Peg/Gill Rd are just a 5 minute drive....." I live in Chilliwack and I know if I weren't fishing the Vedder and other rivers year round, buying a year license and salmon tag, all the gear etc just for the sockeye opening would save me nothing over going and buying whole sockeye at Superstore.
As for complaining about the natives, go fly a kite. They have been netting the Fraser for faaaar longer than the recreational sockeye openings have been around..... So if you get bent out of shape when they happen to come by with a drift net, I suggest you take up the relaxing hobby of knitting.
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Good post buddy. I agree so many people have a sense of entitlement. They are also USING their kids in this fishery as way to keep more fish. Its not about bringing their kids to the river to have a good time fishing, its about the parents using the kids for their benefit.
Thanks, stopped at the Jones Bar parking lot on the way back from the Thompson and the garbage left by those is disgusting, may try to organize a Fraser River cleanup like we did 4 years ago once the season closes which I believe is around the middle of the month.
We got alot of garbage off the river but we had only a few people turn out. The Fraser Valley Salmon Society would sponsor the cleanup.
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A terrible fishery to take children to, oh for the day when many of us very young children started fishing with a worm catching trout, the excitement of catching our first fish that of course bite, flossing, TOWing, snagging, harvesting, good for the economy, F/N gill nets, commercial fishing or what every you want to call it or justify it was never in our minds not that many years ago.
Many now have lost what fishing once was and should still be about. It is nothing about be an elitist it what sports and recreational fishing should be about, give the fish the choice to bite or not.
It is good to see many people that once took part in this activity will never pick up at Bouncing Betty again except to get the lead off the river bed. There will be lots of them along with miles of discarded line and garbage to deal with when the season ends 3 weeks or so from now.
Yeah you would be a way better parent to leave your kid at home to play video games than go out fishing. I don't know why anyone would take their kids fishing anyway, they might get sunburnt or hear someone swear. They should keep kids at home or if they have to fish they should only be allowed to fish in less then waist deep water, with a PFD of course, and only use dry flies. They should never be allowed to be part of the thousands of people who think they had fun on the river on Saturday.
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Yeah you would be a way better parent to leave your kid at home to play video games than go out fishing. I don't know why anyone would take their kids fishing anyway, they might get sunburnt or hear someone swear. They should keep kids at home or if they have to fish they should only be allowed to fish in less then waist deep water, with a PFD of course, and only use dry flies. They should never be allowed to be part of the thousands of people who think they had fun on the river on Saturday.
If your kid was out having a blast today with the sockeye, or any day for that matter, kudos for taking him out. I've seen many a kid out on the river having fun with their parents, an in no way is that wrong. If you are one of those "parents" who tows their kid along because it means the difference between 2 and 4 sockeye and litters the bar with all kinds of garbage, good riddance you only appear every 4 years.
Seems lately to be waaay too many condescending people condemning those the go out and partake in the harvest, and equally the same amount of quadrennial goobers who feel they have been labelled as a selfish slob.
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Yeah you would be a way better parent to leave your kid at home to play video games than go out fishing. I don't know why anyone would take their kids fishing anyway, they might get sunburnt or hear someone swear. They should keep kids at home or if they have to fish they should only be allowed to fish in less then waist deep water, with a PFD of course, and only use dry flies. They should never be allowed to be part of the thousands of people who think they had fun on the river on Saturday.
Amen to that!
All of our kids have come to the river with us over the years and they have had fun. We took our 3 1/2 year old grand daughter out last week and she had an absolute blast catching Squawfish with her aunt. " When can we go again Grammy?" And everybody on the bar enjoyed her squeals of excitement about catching her first fish by herself. She is too small to reel in a sockeye of course and she was not there to increase our limit. But the smiles seen on our kids faces over the years when they get to fight a big fish (when compared to most trout) is awesome. In fact this year two of our daughters got their fishing licence for the first time so they could come along and fish . One of them already has 2 Chinook on her licence. The more fun things we can do as a family, the better I like it.
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Here's what I don't understand about the sockeye fishery/madness that occurs down on the Fraser......
1. It isn't fun, I'd have to say its the least enjoyable fishing I've ever done. I and I'm sure most regulars on here would agree with me there and prefer spending all day with their centerpin chasing coho or cruising shoals searching for big hungry trout, rather than standing on the cobbles heaving bouncing betties and dangerously long leaders.
2. At most spots its a bonafide way to jack up your blood pressure.... not healthy! I don't go anywhere near the gong shows like Peg, Scale, Snaggy and yet when I find my somewhat secluded spot starts to fill up with homers, I have to leave before I do something I regret.
3. It's expensive, save me the "Oh I live in Chilliwack and Peg/Gill Rd are just a 5 minute drive....." I live in Chilliwack and I know if I weren't fishing the Vedder and other rivers year round, buying a year license and salmon tag, all the gear etc just for the sockeye opening would save me nothing over going and buying whole sockeye at Superstore.
As for complaining about the natives, go fly a kite. They have been netting the Fraser for faaaar longer than the recreational sockeye openings have been around..... So if you get bent out of shape when they happen to come by with a drift net, I suggest you take up the relaxing hobby of knitting.
I have some video of Peg that I filmed tonight if you forget what it looks like, they were having a good time and the garbage was not too bad and some people were picking up line etc. good on them. Saw no fish caught when there and a number were fighting some snags. saw some sockeye that had been taken earlier and one chinook.
We should have a bin out there for people to put their garbage in but a ways to pack one out there as cannot drive to it. May take something out there tomorrow along with some bags.
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That's ok, I stopped in at Peg this afternoon for a browse and left pretty quick. Not my cup of tea down there.....
A garbage bin/bags sounds like a great idea as long as there are those willing to empty it out daily. I personally thought a great idea would be to have a dumpster somewhere down McSween Rd, but who would pay for it and how often would it get emptied.... not to mention all the fine folk that would see it as a great spot to leave household garbage......
Truly sad that there are some people out there with absolutely no respect for public areas that we all share. I think next time I head to my spot I will bring a couple heavy duty garbage bags and hang them at convenient locations.
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That's ok, I stopped in at Peg this afternoon for a browse and left pretty quick. Not my cup of tea down there.....
A garbage bin/bags sounds like a great idea as long as there are those willing to empty it out daily. I personally thought a great idea would be to have a dumpster somewhere down McSween Rd, but who would pay for it and how often would it get emptied.... not to mention all the fine folk that would see it as a great spot to leave household garbage......
Truly sad that there are some people out there with absolutely no respect for public areas that we all share. I think next time I head to my spot I will bring a couple heavy duty garbage bags and hang them at convenient locations.
Yes this happens on Chilliwack Lake Road as most of the garbage is put in the bins by residents. Most have now been removed for that reason.
I put bags along the Vedder in a few spots the last few but the main thing is as you mention is to take the time to service them regularly. Dave A. and another member of this forum have been good to donate some large and heavy duty ones to use the last while.
I will put a tub of some sort at Peg later today and do a bit of a cleanup as well. It sets an example for others to do the same. I have done this at KWB on the gravel bar but some people dump fish guts in it as well as garbage so that makes it unpleasant.
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That's ok, I stopped in at Peg this afternoon for a browse and left pretty quick. Not my cup of tea down there.....
A garbage bin/bags sounds like a great idea as long as there are those willing to empty it out daily. I personally thought a great idea would be to have a dumpster somewhere down McSween Rd, but who would pay for it and how often would it get emptied.... not to mention all the fine folk that would see it as a great spot to leave household garbage......
Truly sad that there are some people out there with absolutely no respect for public areas that we all share. I think next time I head to my spot I will bring a couple heavy duty garbage bags and hang them at convenient locations.
Here is how it looked yesterday evening for those that may not have been there. Unedited. ;D ;D
http://youtu.be/FCnPSoOgVpo
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A terrible fishery to take children to, oh for the day when many of us very young children started fishing with a worm catching trout, the excitement of catching our first fish that of course bite, flossing, TOWing, snagging, harvesting, good for the economy, F/N gill nets, commercial fishing or what every you want to call it or justify it was never in our minds not that many years ago.
Many now have lost what fishing once was and should still be about. It is nothing about be an elitist it what sports and recreational fishing should be about, give the fish the choice to bite or not.
It is good to see many people that once took part in this activity will never pick up at Bouncing Betty again except to get the lead off the river bed. There will be lots of them along with miles of discarded line and garbage to deal with when the season ends 3 weeks or so from now.
My son is 26 now but I did take him to fish sockeye on the Fraser when he was around 11 or 12... because he asked to go. It was overall a good experience best I recall. He did decide he didn't like it all that much compared to lake fishing in the interior - mostly because it seemed like hard work and the weather was too hot.
As far as getting lead out of the river Mr Gadsen - if it's that bad how about you start supporting the banning of lead as a fishing weight in BC and maybe the use of external weights on a river like the Chilliwack which relative to water volume must get a lot more lead left on the bottom than any other river in BC?
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Lead was banned from Shotgun shells years ago and maybe it makes sense to do the same for weights?
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Because ducks can't swallow 3oz betties.
Unless you are ingesting lead it is benign.
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Yes this happens on Chilliwack Lake Road as most of the garbage is put in the bins by residents. Most have now been removed for that reason.
I put bags along the Vedder in a few spots the last few but the main thing is as you mention is to take the time to service them regularly. Dave A. and another member of this forum have been good to donate some large and heavy duty ones to use the last while.
I will put a tub of some sort at Peg later today and do a bit of a cleanup as well. It sets an example for others to do the same. I have done this at KWB on the gravel bar but some people dump fish guts in it as well as garbage so that makes it unpleasant.
Placed 2 bins at Peg tonight and cleand up some garbage. Good to see another chap cleaning up too, a resident you comes there everyday to do a cleanup. May visit the bar by boat this week as a bit far to pack out all I picked up tonight. Pictures on the FVSS facebook page.https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fraser-Valley-Salmon-Society/111769675563789
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The Chilliwack Times is doing a story on this topic in tomorrow's paper they phoned me for some comments but missed there call yesterday as was away fishing for cutt's which most likely a good thing. ;D
Apparently the reporter spoke to another person who had concerns what this activity is doing to the recreational fishery.
Will post the story when it comes up.
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I talked to the reporter and as it was past deadline he would not be using my thoughts on the story but I see he did.
http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/news/272929031.html
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Sorry for being off topic, but Chris where were you off fishing for cuttys?
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Sorry for being off topic, but Chris where were you off fishing for cuttys?
At the mouth of any river with clear water conditions are worth a try but they are difficult to find at this time of year.
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My son is 26 now but I did take him to fish sockeye on the Fraser when he was around 11 or 12... because he asked to go. It was overall a good experience best I recall. He did decide he didn't like it all that much compared to lake fishing in the interior - mostly because it seemed like hard work and the weather was too hot.
As far as getting lead out of the river Mr Gadsen - if it's that bad how about you start supporting the banning of lead as a fishing weight in BC and maybe the use of external weights on a river like the Chilliwack which relative to water volume must get a lot more lead left on the bottom than any other river in BC?
As I say to many that suggest ideas like you have and it does have some merit it is a good thing for you to start organzing a group and start a lobby group to see if you can get some support to meet with those that make regulation changes.
At this time I have 7 different volunteer groups that I am involved in. To do a good job one cannot spread yourself too thin. Good luck in getting this going and please keep us informed how it goes. Thanks for suggesting this to the readers of this forum.
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Lead was banned from Shotgun shells years ago and maybe it makes sense to do the same for weights?
Not really. There is lots of lead in shotgun shells. You just aren't permitted to use lead shot in shotgun shells when hunting migratory waterfowl because the lead shot settles in shallow bodies of water and is ingested by feeding waterfowl. In most cases you can use lead shot for upland game birds.
As typhoon said, lead in the Fraser isn't a huge risk as waterfowl aren't likely to ingest a 3 oz betty from the bottom of a large, swiftly moving, river.