Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spawn Sack on October 22, 2021, 11:24:57 PM
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Apologies. Vedder rant. I just have to say something. Something I have noticed lately, that I have never come across in previous Octobers on the Vedder targeting 1st light coho.
So a couple weeks ago I decide to check out a spot I like that I had not fished yet this fall for coho. It's not a super well known spot, but it's also no big secret. It's right near a parking lot and the rotary trail. Went there one evening maybe 4pm. 2 guys. This was 1st week of October and I hadn't hooked a coho yet. They are fishing the bottom 1/3rd of the run, the same water I prefer to fish, maybe 100 feet apart. To ensure I don't unknowingly piss them off I ask if I can fish in the middleish of them as I like to fish the same water. They are cool and say giver. Within 5 casts I have a big fat hatch doe on shore. Sweet! I end up hooking a few more big wilds and so did they, we helped each other with the releases and it was an overall great time. BS'd for a few min after fish were all gutted and bagged up. Fantastic evening.
Went back another evening that week. Lots of coho action, just a few other guys. By now I have figured out more or less exactly where I like to stand and where the coho typically lie and at what depth. Up or down say 25 feet for where I like to stand is still totally fine. But I just happen to like it best at a certain rock. Perfect casting angle at where my float always seems to go down.
That eve I decide I'm going to go tomorrow at first light. Same spot. When it comes to 1st light coho I don't mess around. At my spot by 5am usually. Generally I'm the 1st one there, and that morning I was. Next people showed up at 545. These guys were cool. Checked where my rod was and went about 25 feet above and below me. By 645 or so a lot of people had show up. Probably 20. Guy above and below me had to tighten up a bit as we were worried someone would try to squeak in between us. Left about 12-15 feet between us. No-one tried to fish between us. Run was packed top to bottom but it was alright, actually. Everyone was 12-15 feet apart. Everyone near a fish-on reeled in, and so on, just good general etiquette. I didn't feel aggravated once. Almost everyone had a dead coho or two on shore by 9am or so.
I decide to go the following day first light, same spot. It's a Friday so I get to the spot extra early 445am. Next group shows up 6am. Whoops that was a waste of time! Oh well, I like chillin in the dark and listening to the river. By first light same as yesterday, run packed top to bottom everyone 12-15 feet apart. Then more people start showing up, and more people. One group of like, 7 or 8 people!! The oldest looked to be a man about 107 years old, and the youngest was a woman about 25. Some anglers in this group looked pretty green. Rubber waders, spinning rods with dink floats, braided mainline, and so on. The middle aged men had the best of the best. G4 everything. Milners. Custom Sage rods. Roe sacks made with imported silk. These guys looked like they were fish slaying machines.
They don't start fishing right away, but wait and observe for 5 or so minutes. Two guys fishing near me get a double header (coho). Great. Thanks guys. The crew starts moving our way. No asking if there is room (there wasn't), no "hey how's it going?", nothing. They just walk in like they own the place and start tossing casts. I say to guy walking in between me and guy above me "too close" or something like that. He pretends he does not hear me, or whatever, and keeps fishing. After my hook accidently almost hooked his face a few times he moved up and we all managed to shuffle a bit so we had about 8-10 feet between us. For me this is WAY too close. My rod is 11 1/2 feet long for the love of god(!) Anyway, I'm still hooking fish so I figure, meh, I'll just put up with this foolishness.
Around 9am I decide if I don't take that wizz I've been holding for an hour I'm going to give myself kidney stones. Plus I need a coffee and snack. I sit on my log after and reply to a few texts. The two guys I was fishing with initially have had enough and pack up and leave. I'm still on break. They group of 8ish shuffles around and a couple more people upgrade their spot and come fish where I'm fishing.
When I return from break my spot has "disappeared." My bag and rod are still there, but there are two guys in front of them fishing about 10 feet apart. The one guy who was fishing above me before my break looks at me like I'm some new guy he has never seen before and I just walked into the run. I walk back in about 3 feet down from him right about where I was standing before and say something like "alright taking my spot back guys!." They all reluctantly shuffle a bit so we all have maybe 8-10 feet between us. Every time I would cast, boom, one of them would cast right in front of my float. I hooked one last coho and they didn't reel in or try to get out of my way. Wild. Released.
By now it's about 11am and I have 3 coho on shore. I planned to stay later and get a 4th. After I release the fish and retie my chaffed leader I turn around to notice my spot has "disappeared" again. I can feel my blood boiling. I decide, you know what, this is bs but I'm now not having a good time, and I'm going to leave before I say or do something I might later regret. I pack up and leave.
So, if you happen to be one of these individuals who does this kind of thing, purposely squeezing people out of their spot with your entourage, what is wrong with you? Do you guys actually sit down before you go fishing and plan this out? Or does it just seem like the natural thing to do so you can all fish side by side? I just don't get it. Never seen anything like it. However, was chattin with a guy this evening, sharing my anecdote, and he said he has experienced the same sort of thing at different spots. Mainly a first light kind of thing. I just don't get it. Is it a social media thing? Do you all get a buzz of all your "likes" and get to be the Facebook angler of the day? Do you need to justify to your wife why you needed to spend 5k on gear to come home with 4 coho? I just. Don't. Get. It.
This experience has (temporarily) turned me off 1st light fishing. Such an unpleasant experience. Went back to same spot this eve. Couple guys. Few casts, bang, coho on. I think I'll make this evening coho fish more of a regular thing. And to the G4 clad, $1200 custom Sage crowd that goes around doing this sort of thing - you guys are pathetic. Centerbeaks. You may look like like experienced anglers, and some of you do know how to catch fish, but your personal ethics and manners are abysmal. Shame on you. When did catching a coho become the most important thing ever???
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Centerbeaks, that’s funny. It’s all for “the gram” don’t ya know.
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Honestly that story sounds like most days on the vedder with regards to fishing amongst others in a run. Sometimes you hook a fish and land em a bit away from where your posted up in the run. Then you look back and everyone has closed in on your spot like it’s the only place the fish are.
I’ve been surrounded by team googan before, standing 10ft away blowing cigarette smoke basically in your face to push you out of the run. That’s just the good ole vedder for you, especially in the easily accessible areas.
There have been times when I’ll be fishing in a run and a guy will take a lunch break or just sit down to take a break for a bit and I’ll ask him if i can “keep his spot warm” meaning can I fish here while your not....when your ready to come back I’ll move on. Hope I’m not inadvertently being a d1ck
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Somehow made double post. Removed this one.
Dano
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IMHO if you're at a spot from first light to like 11 don't you think other people might also want to fish there? If you leave, then your spot is gone as people don't really care, they're also trying to get the best fishing possible. I don't think you own the spot just because you leave your things there and go do something else on your break. Unless you have a friend there you can't expect to get it back. And anyways there's so many spots to fish you really shouldn't be that obsessed over the "one spot". If you are at the line at Costco and leave your bags in your spot to get something for lets say up to 30 s or 60 or whatever it's fine. Though if you forgot a bunch of stuff and don't return for 5 min obviously other people will pass you. You can't always get everyone on the same page as you and you might want to consider that other people might get frustrated they can't fish there because you have been fishing a spot for 5 hours, especially if you already have 3 fish, is that 4th really going to change your life? Just my 2 cents anyway, not trying to blame you or anyone else.
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This is a tough one. Not justifying their actions, but at the end of the day, I think part of the question is "how badly do you want to fish"?
I do not fish the Vedder very often. I have a feeling I may know the spot you are talking about. I used to fish it about 5-7 years ago. It has now changed and widened out a bit. I walked by it one evening a few weeks ago while exploring spots I wanted to go. Very few to no people and it looked like the changes made it not a good choice. I then walked by it prior to first light while heading for some other spots I had seen. I think there were three guys kinda standing around waiting. Later that day, while returning at 9:30, a guy who was standing where I remember getting fish had 3 to the beach. There were now about 7-8 guys there, but I just kept walking.
For me, it was the Thanksgiving Long Weekend. I actually brought the boat and we camped at the Vedder River Campground. I fished 2 days out of the boat, which were great. The Monday was pack-up day, so I walked the bank/trail to the railway bridge and fished a few spots and observed.
Throughout the day, I saw guys at all locations have fish, while rest of the guys in the various runs had none. This started at the railway bridge, and then as I went up. At all the runs, there are key spots where the best water is located and the fish will sit, If you are not fishing these spots, you are in dead water and will get few to no hits.
At the Railway bridge, I did think about crossing the river and fishing the run on the other side, but decided not to. I decided to fish the "bushed in" side in a hole I could get to. One thing I will state is I observed fishers all day and I was impressed by how courteous they were, polite to each other, cheerful, and talkative/upbeat. So, my first observation is, if you are this type of personality, can fish in this style, be patient, and contribute in a positive way to the group, this fishery may be for you. Believe it or not, I can and have fished in this way, have enjoyed it, in some instances, would still enjoy it, but on this particular weekend, wanted a bit more space, thus brought the boat, had two days of space with good fishing, and wanted this to continue.
So, I did not get fish at the railway bridge in my single person spot. But, across from me, on the other side, the group that was made up of many different fishermen, of different nationalities, who did not know each other, and was packed in a bit tight, was doing well and getting fish, and all getting along well, telling stories, and laughing.. No-body above or below this key group was getting fish. When one or two of them would be done, the group would shuffle and the whole bar adjusted in some way. Ones I observed worked out well, but I would imagine if the wrong "shifting" took place, words may have been said.
As I made my way back to the Vedder River Campground, I noted all the same scenarios at all the different bars and runs I hit. Fairly crowded, guys in key spots with fish, guys not in key spots with no fish, but all were getting along and having a good day overall. Interestingly, at each bar, fish being caught were not being caught in the same types of water, and I know these waters would vary depending on water levels over the season..
I did stop at all the bars and made casts, but never in the "best" or the "right" water. As I understood, it was too late in the day for me to get the good spots, and I was not about to wait and manoever up the line.
So, my overall impression is I was impressed by my "fellow" fishermen on the vedder, and how they treated each other. I was not feeling good for the fish thought, as I wondered about this massive gauntlet then needed to run, and felt for them. In some instances, I would have been part of this "gauntlet crowd", but now that I have been fishing as long as I have and have discovered the opportunities I have, I rarely feel the desire to move into the que to be able to fish.
Sorry you ran into a particularily not "team player" group of anglers, but I am sure they understood the dynamics as laid out above, and the positive gain "getting fish", outweighed the negative impressions they would leave by choosing not to play by the rules and participate in the "que" style of fishing. At the end of it all, with this type of fishing, and everyone working hard to be part of the solution, rather than problem, I think the boundaries between what is a "good, ethical distance" get blurred based on your personal experience.
for comparison, I have other systems I fish and do well. On one particular day last fall, I and another vehicle arrived at a hole that involves some hiking and work to get into at the same time. It was still dark and not quite first light. I had my gear on and was ready to go. He still had to get changed. Although the hole I wished to go into has room for 5 or 6, as he was the lead vehicle, I asked him about us both going in and fishing together. He was somewhat polite about it, but hinted strongly he did not want me there. I then respected his wishes. I could have raced ahead and beat him in. I would have been willing to fish with him, but it did not seem it was in the cards. Interestingly, I took another spot in the same area. I knew he went down. but something was up, he did not like the conditions, and he very quickly left. I then moved to the spot and had a great day. I think had he been flexible and willing to share, we would have had a great day fishing together, and he likely would have learned a few things about techniques.
Dano
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Just re-reading through your post and the replies. I see some parts of your post as a rant, but note you are also an "old timer" by definition. Thus, the reason for the post I am going to make and the thoughts I am going to express.
I have fished the Vedder since the early 90's. There are a lot of changes that have taken place to the system. Due to when I began fishing, how long I have been fishing, my style of fishing, and my memories of what it was, I too see various changes as negative, not as I like, and could complain. But, there is another side of me that recognizes the positive aspects to fishing to my personal well being and health, I look at how many anglers the system is sustaining (I find it remarkable myself) and admire the overall Vedder system for how many anglers it supports in pursuing their "dreams and passion". My father in law fishes the Nanaimo (I have too in the past) and they get nowhere near this kind of pressure. The Vedder is getting a ton of pressure, and sustaining an overall positive fishery. For some evidence, look at Rod's picture of the hatchery channel lined with fish.
I have to remind myself despite my take on myself as an angler, and my personal thoughts on being one of the "good guys", I am still a single angler who is having an overall impact on this system. I have no more right to the system than any other angler out there. Despite my view on myself as an angler, I have to remember to other anglers who fish the system and are as passionate about fishing as myself, to them, I am just another angler on the system, and thus, part of the problem and not the solution in their eyes.
As you or the systems you fish evolves, and your values or the systems values change, you, me, and all other anglers will have to adjust their fishing styles, locations, and systems to accommodate the change in values and how you feel about them. I personally have been making a switch to more fly fishing (for years now actually), and my target species has "evolved" and become interior trout. This summer, I made one of my biggest forays to date, and spent 55 days living out of my trailer, and went nearly to Bella Coola and worked my way back with my daughter and had various experiences of great fishing with no other anglers.
I guess rather than see your post, my post, and others as being rants and attacks, I hope they would be seen as a sharing of knowledge and thus act as a possible educational piece that will get other anglers to stop and think about their personal place in the "angling society" and the contribution they make. This can hopefully help to educate and through experiences and others thoughts, lead to an effort to evolve and become a better angler.
Dano
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Yep, had it happen a couple of days ago. Had a guy arrive late in the day to a crowded hole. Apparently I was in his spot. He was willing to be as rude as it took to get me to move. Centerbeak fer sure.
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IMHO if you're at a spot from first light to like 11 don't you think other people might also want to fish there? If you leave, then your spot is gone as people don't really care, they're also trying to get the best fishing possible. I don't think you own the spot just because you leave your things there and go do something else on your break. Unless you have a friend there you can't expect to get it back. And anyways there's so many spots to fish you really shouldn't be that obsessed over the "one spot". If you are at the line at Costco and leave your bags in your spot to get something for lets say up to 30 s or 60 or whatever it's fine. Though if you forgot a bunch of stuff and don't return for 5 min obviously other people will pass you. You can't always get everyone on the same page as you and you might want to consider that other people might get frustrated they can't fish there because you have been fishing a spot for 5 hours, especially if you already have 3 fish, is that 4th really going to change your life? Just my 2 cents anyway, not trying to blame you or anyone else.
I'm going to hazard a guess you are one of these fine anglers? I never "left my spot." I had to take a wizz and wanted to sit for a few min, check my phone, etc. Might have been gone for 5-7 minutes, sitting on a log 20 feet away. I have zero issues with someone who wants to fish where I was fishing while I'm on a short break. Some people ask, some don't, I'm fine with either. However, it seems everyone understands that when you return, it's time to move and give this guy his spot back. Never had any issues in the 10ish years I've been doing the first light coho thing on the Vedder.
Also, I am not at all obsessed with "one spot" on this run or any run. I fished this run last night. Couple guys there. We all moved up and down, here and there, and all caught coho. However, when the run is packed top to bottom, and I get squeezed out of my spot by jerks like this crew, now there is nowhere for me to fish. Maybe the very tip top of the run, or bottom of the tailout where no fish are being hooked. Ya, I can try and shoehorn myself in where there is no room in the fishy part of the run, and now I look like a jerk. I'd rather just leave and go fish elsewhere.
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Unfortunately, I'm not an early riser and haven't been to first light in awhile so can't speak about that. I suspected as much though. For the most part, despite crowding, I see most people getting along. It's a shame when people just can't co-operate, because even in a crowded lineup, working together and spacing of at least 10' can work.
While I'm not slaying hos at will, I'm not a newbie either, and from my experience ... it's these "top rods" that have been most annoying, because they should know better. While they may not be as overtly aggressive, they are equally so in a passive/entitled way, which is worse.
But I get what you're saying.
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Oh boy, SS and DanT posting in the same thread. Time to make some popcorn and settle in for a long read 😀
I hear your frustration, SS. Whether it’s culture, awareness of fishing ethics or riverbank “protocol”, personal ethics, character…I suggest that when you get large groups of people, engaged in a solitary activity that is competitive in nature, where the quarry and space are limited, your experience is inevitable.
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The symptoms of fraser valley fishing cancer
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I gave up fishing first light yrs ago. Getting early to a crowded spot on the Vedder during salmon season means nothing. Consider yourself very lucky catching 3 cohos before you got swarmed. It’s happening all over the river at the popular meat holes. I fish a spot where nobody can fish beside me and I go in the late afternoons when most of the crowds are gone. I catch plenty of cohos in this spot. If someone is in the spot that like to stand then I go home. Has only happened once this fall season so far. Im at an age where like to relax and enjoy my fishing more then packing my freezer full.
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When I return from break my spot has "disappeared." My bag and rod are still there, but there are two guys in front of them fishing about 10 feet apart. The one guy who was fishing above me before my break looks at me like I'm some new guy he has never seen before and I just walked into the run. I walk back in about 3 feet down from him right about where I was standing before and say something like "alright taking my spot back guys!." They all reluctantly shuffle a bit so we all have maybe 8-10 feet between us. Every time I would cast, boom, one of them would cast right in front of my float. I hooked one last coho and they didn't reel in or try to get out of my way. Wild. Released.
By now it's about 11am and I have 3 coho on shore. I planned to stay later and get a 4th. After I release the fish and retie my chaffed leader I turn around to notice my spot has "disappeared" again. I can feel my blood boiling. I decide, you know what, this is bs but I'm now not having a good time, and I'm going to leave before I say or do something I might later regret. I pack up and leave.
Unfortunately nowadays, having your stuff marking your spot means pretty much nothing. It's only your spot as long as you are literally standing on the rock you plan to use.
So, if you happen to be one of these individuals who does this kind of thing, purposely squeezing people out of their spot with your entourage, what is wrong with you? Do you guys actually sit down before you go fishing and plan this out? Or does it just seem like the natural thing to do so you can all fish side by side? I just don't get it. Never seen anything like it.
Unfortunately, as long as there are few certain productive rivers like the Vedder, it has/will only get worse as 1) the population grows, and 2) other recreational opportunities in the region grow more limited forcing everyone to the same systems.
There are still lesser populated spots, but generally the trend is getting worse. It was within the last 10 years where some first light areas I used to go to might have 10 people, where now it's not an exaggeration to say there can be 50.
And to the G4 clad, $1200 custom Sage crowd that goes around doing this sort of thing - you guys are pathetic. Centerbeaks. You may look like like experienced anglers, and some of you do know how to catch fish, but your personal ethics and manners are abysmal.
It doesn't take class to own expensive things. It all comes down to what you are willing to tolerate and do. FWIW it's not limited to the Vedder, any productive and well known system is pretty much the same nowadays...
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Thanks for replies all. Fished the same spot today from 230-530pm. You could tell by the fresh blood on shore and fresh looking fish guts that this run produced some fish today. 3 guys fishing when I walked in. 2 guys had a dead coho each behind them. BS'd with one of them a bit and ASKED if they minded if I fished between them. They said go right ahead. Hooked a couple chum. Meh. Walked up to the top of the run and fished down. No-one hooked anything for an hour. We all started moving up/down trying to find where the coho were hiding. No luck. Just one of those days. I have definitely decided that at least with this spot I'm not going back for 1st light. Now that this "crew" has discovered this spot, and caught coho, I assume they will be back. Not the kind of people I ever want to fish around again. I'm happy popping into this spot in the eves and hope for a good last light bite.
Few other thoughts: it's pretty sad when a guy can't even go for a wizz without getting squeezed out of his spot. I fish 4-6ish other spots for first light coho on the Vedder. NEVER ran into this sort of clown behavior. In fact, on many occasions I have been on a 5-10 min break, and no one tries to fish my spot. I have actually told people not catching anything "why don't you cast here for a bit?" The sheepish reply is usually something like "oh I thought that would be rude." Not at all!! I like to see other people catch fish and have a good time. You might as well cast here for a bit if I'm not, but ya, eventually I'll want my spot back. People are usually fine with this and appreciative. If I can see something they are doing that is not helping them catch fish, I'll offer some tips, offer them some of my gear, help them net/land their fish if they hook one, and so on.
Anyway, the other day at this spot just totally blew my mind. This crew wanted my spot now, and they weren't prepared to wait an hour or whatever until I was done and packed up. I am certain these centerbeaks would not DARE to try this sort of thing if they were fishing solo, or 2-3 of them. But a group of 8ish? Ya, power in numbers. Walk in late and pretty much bully solo anglers like me out of their spot.
I am too over the hill to be throwing hands over a fishing spot. But I know a few guys who will. One of these days this crew is going to run into the wrong guy(s) and get their teeth knocked out. That's river karma. You just can't keep fishing like an a** hole and expect it not to come back on you one day.
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I gave up fishing first light yrs ago. Getting early to a crowded spot on the Vedder during salmon season means nothing. Consider yourself very lucky catching 3 cohos before you got swarmed. It’s happening all over the river at the popular meat holes. I fish a spot where nobody can fish beside me and I go in the late afternoons when most of the crowds are gone. I catch plenty of cohos in this spot. If someone is in the spot that like to stand then I go home. Has only happened once this fall season so far. Im at an age where like to relax and enjoy my fishing more then packing my freezer full.
Ya, like I said I've given up on this spot this fall for 1st light. Just too easily accessible and the word has gotten out to the centerbeaks that this run is typically stacked with coho each morning. I have a few other spots up my sleeve that I don't anticipate being a problem. Way longer walk in, only room for 5-7 guys. The coho fishing is not nearly as productive as some of the mid river runs, but I have never had a single issue with poor manners. Most ppl who fish these are trying to escape the crowds and lack of etiquette, so everyone seems to go out of their way to ensure they don't piss anyone off.
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My question is...
Where can I find some of this imported silk used for roe sacks? :D
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I only fish in Vedder where nobody around. if some one squeeze close to me, I move and leave the spot to the idiot.
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Unfortunately this type of behaviour is not restricted to only the Vedder. It's pretty well the norm in alot of rivers these days.
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Thank god steelheaders has better fishing etiquette. I remember back in 1986 when first batches of hatchery cohoes came back I spend most my fishing the boulder run. Fisherman and gals were friendly and everybody got along then again there was 10 x less fisherman or gals. Now a day I don't fished as much for coho or spring during Sept. and Oct. on the Vedder river There are other rivers in Lowermainland which has small runs of hatchery coho and spring. I really enjoy fishing these rivers less crowd and lots of time nobody fished at my honey hole. Life is too short. Don't need the stress.
Silex-user
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Way longer walk in, only room for 5-7 guys. The coho fishing is not nearly as productive as some of the mid river runs, but I have never had a single issue with poor manners. Most ppl who fish these are trying to escape the crowds and lack of etiquette, so everyone seems to go out of their way to ensure they don't piss anyone off.
The long walk-in/out is key. I can't recall meeting any centerbeaks off the beaten path.
As for the first light stampede to the most productive spots, I'm done with that. Did it once this season for naught, for there were 10 other guys there before I arrived even though it was still pitch dark.
I'd much rather get my beauty sleep and fish the second shift and stay until dark.
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I think the reality is, there are always just jerks in life... ;) Rich jerks, poor jerks, educated jerks, hick jerks, jerks in all ethnicities, old jerks, young jerks, big jerks, small jerks, you get the point. ;D We run into them while driving, run into them at restaurants, and of course we are going to run into them occasionally at the Vedder River.
I like to believe this is just an isolated, unfortunate incident. I've seen groups like this sometimes. I'm not sure how this gets tied to social media, which has its pros and cons. I see more pros than cons. The delivery of important information such as regulation changes has been sped up by social media. Because of Facebook, I've been able to reunite at least a dozen lost items with anglers who lost them this past year. Platforms like Instagram have brought anglers together more, creating a sense of community which is lacking in this province.
I'm with Dan's observations here. I mostly see anglers getting along even when it gets crowded out there. I've seen ethics improving in the past twenty years. I am seeing way less long lining out there and coho fishing has become really competitive because there are way more anglers who target them properly now than before.
There are two rules I go by when I head down to the river. One is to have a good attitude, two is to treat others like the way I want to be treated. So far the two approaches have lead to great experiences everytime I'm out there. I also do my best to avoid the situation which SS described. I don't fish spots at first light where I am likely to be crowded out. If I do, I always tell myself to just leave before it gets to that point.
I still enjoy the first light race. ;D As busy and competitive as this river gets, I love getting out there and trying to outfish others lol. I also find myself improving when fishing among others, always picking up new tips. I've also learned to lower the expectations and getting fish is not always my priority. Two mornings ago I fished a run with at least 50 other people. There are tons of fish caught, but for some reason my float never dipped in six hours. A little frustrating, but it was a great morning. The atmosphere was very positive. A little kid across from us caught a coho by himself and everyone cheered on. I caught up with Fish Assassin who I hadn't seen in almost ten years!
Anyway, not saying SS should lighten up, but just remember that the nice ones outnumber the bad ones. Enjoy the rest of the salmon season everyone. :D
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My question is...
Where can I find some of this imported silk used for roe sacks? :D
Isn’t all silk imported? Why don’t we have a domestic silk industry?
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Rodney makes some good points. Attitude is everything in life. When I'm sitting in the dark, most times the 1st one to arrive at one of these busy coho spots, I know/expect the run to be packed by the time you can see your float. I know I'm going to have someone a rod length or whatever below me, and the same above by the time fishing starts. I've always been cool with that. Most days had a great time, some laughs, could go for a break and not worry that I would get pushed out of my spot, and so on. Usually leave with some coho, but if I don't it's all good as I still enjoyed myself. As I've said ad nauseum, that morning was a real eye opener for me. Stuff I've never seen before. A large group deliberately making anglers feel uncomfortable so they'll pack up and leave early, so they can scoop their spot.
Anyway, I'm well over being butt-hurt, and appreciate ya'll listening to my rant and responding. I have fished this spot every evening since the morning in question, and have caught coho each time except last night. The run was just not happening, oh well.
I plan to do some first light fishing in the coming week, I'll just hit some more of my out of the way spots and burn a few more calories on the way in/out.
Oh, and GordJ, the silk comment was meant to be tongue in cheek. I don't remember was they were using. I guess my point was I usually assume if someone has invested big bucks in top of the line gear, they have probably been at this for a while, and probably have an understanding of the unwritten ethical expectations/etiquette for this fishery. Oh well, this has motivated me to drive around more and walk more, find some new clandestine spots. Maybe I should thank this centerbeak crew? Nah, you guys still suck. If you are reading this I hope you blow up your $1200 Sage on a chum.
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The long walk-in/out is key. I can't recall meeting any centerbeaks off the beaten path.
As for the first light stampede to the most productive spots, I'm done with that. Did it once this season for naught, for there were 10 other guys there before I arrived even though it was still pitch dark.
I'd much rather get my beauty sleep and fish the second shift and stay until dark.
You have hit the nail on the head. I gave up on the first light fishery yrs ago when there was 3 dudes sleeping on the bank when I arrived in the dark. Lol. As it got light more people arrived and bullied there way onto the run. That was a defining moment for myself after having fished the Vedder for many yrs before that incident without issue. I now fish the late afternoon shift and have peace of mind. 40 yrs fishing the Vedder and still out there doing it. Tight lines.
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Rodney makes some good points. Attitude is everything in life. When I'm sitting in the dark, most times the 1st one to arrive at one of these busy coho spots, I know/expect the run to be packed by the time you can see your float. I know I'm going to have someone a rod length or whatever below me, and the same above by the time fishing starts. I've always been cool with that. Most days had a great time, some laughs, could go for a break and not worry that I would get pushed out of my spot, and so on. Usually leave with some coho, but if I don't it's all good as I still enjoyed myself. As I've said ad nauseum, that morning was a real eye opener for me. Stuff I've never seen before. A large group deliberately making anglers feel uncomfortable so they'll pack up and leave early, so they can scoop their spot.
There's also a survivorship bias aspect here. Those who dislike that sort of combat fishing would not be inclined go to those popular spots, and certainly not behave like that. While those who don't mind will fill the gaps, as you've discovered. I suspect it may not have been deliberate, probably just what they see or experienced at other popular runs.
Which is kind of an interesting phenomenon. Each run has it's own etiquette, and offense can be easily given or taken when everyone has a different expectation. What's OK under KWB may not be kosher at a quieter up river spot. If one takes the expectation of conduct from one run into the other, someone's going to have a bad time...
I guess my point was I usually assume if someone has invested big bucks in top of the line gear, they have probably been at this for a while, and probably have an understanding of the unwritten ethical expectations/etiquette for this fishery.
I think this is not really all that true nowadays. There's a lot of people with plenty of disposable income and a couple K is not that much to drop on a serious hobby. There are definitely those with top end gear that have gotten into it within the last few yrs or so, introduced by friends, and quickly want the same stuff. If all they've known is combat fishing, because that's what their friends introduced them to, then that's what they learn and got used to. Those who hate it will likely abandon it early.
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Maybe fishing etiquette in crowded spots is a good video idea, Rodney?
My self for example - I have pretty nice gear and have fished lots, but just started "combat fishing" over the last two years since I moved here. I don't know anyone who enjoys fishing, and so I don't really know whats ok when your fishing 15-25 feet next to people? How far can I let my float drift in front of you? What if they are fly fishing - does that change anything?
A couple of times I think I might have pissed someone off from doing the wrong thing accidentally - but its tough to know if you haven't grown up doing it and no one has shown you the ropes. Lots of steelhead etiquette videos out there, but not for crowded salmon fishing.
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A lot of good points... and a lot of BS.
What happened to Spawn Sack was plain wrong, and I do not blame him for ranting.
Wishing you tight lines always SS and screw the centerbeaks.
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what others have said on here is bang on you have to approach it with the right attitude for what your gonna be walking into.
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There are certain locations on the river where people will squeeze in no matter how many people are already fishing there. It's not just the Vedder but other places too. I don't know if there is anything you can do about it other, than move on and fish somewhere else. Getting there 3 hours before first light and putting up a big fence around yourself might help :D
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I've never fished the Vedder and avoid combat fishing situations, so the following comment may be really off base. I realize these are hatchery coho and, by definition, they are there to be harvested but if there are more fisherman than fish-producing spots and you've already filled your freezer, I'd think you'd either take your foot off the gas by fishing more remote spots (fewer fish perhaps, but better quality angling experience: no centerbeaks) or perhaps reducing your expected take each time out to minimize the potential irritation brought on by crowding.
You are clearly a top gun who has landed a lot of coho in your time, so leaving a few in the river for the other guys is also an option, isn't it?
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I've never fished the Vedder and avoid combat fishing situations, so the following comment may be really off base. I realize these are hatchery coho and, by definition, they are there to be harvested but if there are more fisherman than fish-producing spots and you've already filled your freezer, I'd think you'd either take your foot off the gas by fishing more remote spots (fewer fish perhaps, but better quality angling experience: no centerbeaks) or perhaps reducing your expected take each time out to minimize the potential irritation brought on by crowding.
You are clearly a top gun who has landed a lot of coho in your time, so leaving a few in the river for the other guys is also an option, isn't it?
Exactly... Try a new place or a new way to catch them. Why go to the same spot day after day, bragging how many fish are in the freezer. Figure out something different and when the fish are a little harder to catch you will have more tools and locations to fish.
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Good suggestion, but for many anglers, it's all about numbers and statistics. Success is measured by the number of hookups and fish landed.
The higher the numbers, the better.
For others, it's nothing but a meat fishery.
We may not like such approach, but hey, if it turns their crank, who are we to judge?
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Exactly... Try a new place or a new way to catch them. Why go to the same spot day after day, bragging how many fish are in the freezer. Figure out something different and when the fish are a little harder to catch you will have more tools and locations to fish.
This was a topic my friends and i discussed. Basically we hit the same spot almost for a whole week. Briefly there was a question that popped up that why I wasn't bored of hitting the same spot every morning. 1. I didn't have to deal with the crazy gong show and it was nicely contained by our group. We all had the right spacing which nice. 2. The cohos we're cooperating, we had several different ways to catch them when option A window was gone. 3. You just don't get these kind of fishing days anymore, best to make the best of the moment. I sure as hell don't want to join the gong and have few fish to play with, squeezing in scenario and people ruining your drifts. I have gotten to the run first before to only have my rod and bag sitting on my marked spot mean nothing when it is time to step into water.
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I thought the approved anti-Centerbeak technique was to arrive early, get pole position and break out the 15 foot spay road, with 45 foot long scandi head .....