Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: cammer on July 26, 2017, 10:45:25 PM
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I thought this important enough to start a new topic, Like Steelhawk and WA fisher have mentioned , the old Chehalis was a wonderful fishful place where large numbers of fisherman could be expected and also expect to be successful thus lessening the burden on the vedder and other taxed systems. My last outing there I took some pictures to possibly build a case for a scenario I thought of to deflect the river towards the hatchery. However, a very wise fisherman has informed me of a very possible fix that im sure would very much help in increasing holding times of fish in the main river thus increasing catch rates and "brood stock opportunities" for steelhead. Here is an old pic from when the Hatchery had water , as you can see the Fishermans Trail in red is superimposed over the pic , the Blue is the new(todays) channel and the pink circles was the very fishy original flow. Ive then painted over pics to show you a idea of what I think would be a permanent solution to moving water like it has been done numerous times on Vedder. The most likely permanent fix is to deflect the channel from Bible camp/Healing House to the channel that was dug out and been dry for over many years, this would involve large rip rap similar to the rip rap used under the Vedder crossing bridge and slowly angle river to dry channel where water would scour that channel on way to hatchery, However another way to Brilliantly change the fortunes of this river in short term would to take current Outflow from the hatchery discharge and direct that to main river which is now very close to hatchery (guessing 400 meters) .Currently the hatchery outflow meanders a long way through bush to almost near the Harrison. Now fish entering the main river would have to swim all the way up to just below the Bible run to get to hatchery water they so desperately seek. This would create great fishing now in main river and the areas just below and above the confluence would be a great place to capture brood stock for steelhead(winters and summers) PICTURES TO FOLLOW
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need a member with photobucket to upload my pics email me camaronetz@hotmail.com
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And what would stop the Chehalis FN from changing the flow again. I'd rather it left as is...keeps the number of people down and the trash too. The Chilliwack/Vedder can handle the volume of fisherman and other goof balls holding a rod and the Chehalis cannot
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And what would stop the Chehalis FN from changing the flow again. I'd rather it left as is...keeps the number of people down and the trash too. The Chilliwack/Vedder can handle the volume of fisherman and other goof balls holding a rod and the Chehalis cannot
I agree that moving the whole river channel is difficult both physically and politically, but Cammer's other idea, re-routing the hatchery outlet, actually makes a good deal of sense.
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Um Old Blue??? how did the first nation band move it?? please tell me?? the only thing first nations had done was to build a rip rap road wall to prevent continuous flooding of their reservation, they had never moved it. The whole point of moving the river is too create fishing opportunity, presently brood stock captures for steelhead are very very low due to position of river and difficulty gettingfish to hatchery and secondly the fish can swim directly in the hatchery channel and straight into hatchery resulting in no opportunity, the Chehalis is a wasted resource right now and needs changing
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I agree with Cammer. Where else you ever see a hatchery with a dry up channel in front of it. What is wrong with putting the river back to its former state with fish able to access the hatchery? If the Bible Camp has a rock wall there, the rock war can extend further downstream and then bend toward the hatchery to cause the river to go back to its old channel. We have seen much greater earth moving efforts to build a bridge to an island on the Fraser for gravel extraction. So why can't DFO do such enhancement on a much smaller scale for one of its own federal funded hatcheries?
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Well said
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I'd rather it left as is...keeps the number of people down and the trash too. The Chilliwack/Vedder can handle the volume of fisherman and other goof balls holding a rod and the Chehalis cannot
I agree that moving the whole river channel is difficult both physically and politically, but Cammer's other idea, re-routing the hatchery outlet, actually makes a good deal of sense.
and no one even mentions where will the money come from?
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Or how about the river is not altered by man at all and in the future allowed to move where it pleases. Ive seen a river i loved fishing practically become straight over 1 year due to natural circumstances.
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You guys are forgetting one thing. The government does not give a Crap about recreational fishing.
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I'm a realist as well, the deflection of the river won't happen this year, this is the Chehalis not the vedder, which means a whole lot. But to dig the existing hatchery outlet to the main river is a relatively simple easy fix in short term, I suggest looking at Google Earth and seeing how close the hatchery outflow is to main river, this would substantially improve holding times in main river near this confluence and allow opportunity to get some brood to the hatchery a hell of a lot easier
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If anyone has been involved in large scale rip rap work I'd love to know what was involved . I work in a city and we do fisheries work at way smaller scales but similar planning processes
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I'm a realist as well, the deflection of the river won't happen this year, this is the Chehalis not the vedder, which means a whole lot. But to dig the existing hatchery outlet to the main river is a relatively simple easy fix in short term, I suggest looking at Google Earth and seeing how close the hatchery outflow is to main river, this would substantially improve holding times in main river near this confluence and allow opportunity to get some brood to the hatchery a hell of a lot easier
I wonder how you could re-route the hatchery channel across the old riverbed without it wanting to go down the old riverbed instead? Water goes where it wants to go. Perhaps even this would require rip-rap. Of course, I wonder if you could fund the project by offering gravel extraction in return? i.e., we have some gravel for you, all you have to do for us is dig this nice little channel over here?
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the water flow out of hatchery is minimal , its what they use to feed the channels in the hatchery only , its flow doesn't have much velocity/scour potential to effectively move gravel , it would be an extremely easy correction as long as there is grade to the river.
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Give Jakes a call, they're the ones who do it on the Vedder.
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Thanks Noah
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Do you read your posts before hit send?
Can't argue with some of the content but a lot seems to be inflammatory, often heard, diatribe with nothing to back it up.
You're passionate.
I get it.
But there's a little more to an ecosystem than allowing fishing.
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Sorry, my last post post was directed at some colour and bold post.
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The chehalis is not the same ecosystem it was when it went by the hatchery. It is worse for chum for sure as the biologist I've talked too said the black heads are suffering due to increased flow velocity in the new channel being less meandering, the size of gravel in the new channel is much too.large for proper redds,,,,otherwise it's a new River channel whose meandering hasn't had time to become a reality. I studied fluvial geomorphology at Sfu
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The chehalis is not the same ecosystem it was when it went by the hatchery. It is worse for chum for sure as the biologist I've talked too said the black heads are suffering due to increased flow velocity in the new channel being less meandering, the size of gravel in the new channel is much too.large for proper redds,,,,otherwise it's a new River channel whose meandering hasn't had time to become a reality. I studied fluvial geomorphology at Sfu
I'll never forget the sight (and smell) of the bathtub ring of dead chums when the river dropped. It made you pray that the day didn't warm up past freezing, that's when they really started to smell.
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Good for you.
I've noticed that people/humans f up a NATURE that was performimg fine before people started to think they could control it.
Fight for habitat....
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The Chehalis hatchery was build in 1982 I believe, when the river first left the hatchery, it was moved back in the next summer during a period called the fisheries window...basically now.. then that didn't work again after a huge rain and the dfo tried again but by that time the current river had scoured too deep to meet the grade of the channel dug, u can see this in the pics. The current channel that's dry would have to be again lowered deeper to achieve grade which would equal BIG $$$$. I believe that a deflection dam would allow the natural scouring to occur to eventually settle into a constant state towards the hatchery. Of course as a fisherman on a fishing site I'm very concerned about having opportunity to fish to supply my passion with an.outlet, if this is a bad thing. Oh F***ing well lol
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Interesting topic Cammer. I've thought about this diversion a number of times in the past and although what you propose can be engineered, I think it would end up be significantly more work and $$ than one might imagine. For a long-term solution, the riprap used for the diversion would likely be much larger than what is currently placed along the left bank by the FN facility; this is because of the curvature of the diversion berm and that river flows would almost be directly impinging on it. Some sort of impermeable feature may also have to be constructed along the downstream side of the berm to prevent river flows from trickling through the riprap. Depending on how robust the structure needs to be, the riprap may also need to be keyed into the river bed to counteract scour and undermining of the berm. All constructable...
What I think would be the biggest hurdle would be the regulatory requirements for a diversion of this magnitude. Even small diversions typically require salvage of any fish in the portion of the river that will be isolated. Imagine salvaging any resident and migratory fishing along a reach of river that's over 2 km. You mentioned that the river was diverted once in the 80s. I'm not familiar with what was done at that time with regards to the size of diversion and environmental requirements, but suspect that it wouldn't fly now a days. Though I may be missing something and would be interested to hear what others think on the subject.
One other thing is that the avulsion point of the river is on the fan of the river. From a geomorphological perspective, this is the reach of the river that would tend to experience net aggradation of sediment over time, which would be the main driver for avulsions here in the past. By constructing a berm at that location, a large portion of the fan would be cut off leading to increase aggradation elsewhere and potentially unpredictable behaviour of the river in the future. I admit that I'm not aware of all of the issues facing the hatchery at this time, though I'm generally in favor of letting the river migrate naturally and modifying the hatchery channel to suit. If flows along the hatchery channel are an issue, perhaps designing an intake system to increase flows into the channel a feasible solution? not sure what's in place now, and that would be costly as well but more predictable. Thanks again for starting this topic.
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Hey Fisherama, as far as I know the river was only moved in late 90s after a massive winter storm caused the river to cut off its meander and head straight vs curve to right. In my picture you can see old channel in.pink dots which means the pic was taken in 1990s, the blue is an approximation of current course. Use Google Earth for current channel location... if you are familiar with the vedder the river runs straight down from Wilson Road and then was diverted by a deflection dam at a very sharp angle to prevent flooding to the reservation. This deflection has endured many years and many many many high water events. So it's plausible and do-able, problem is the band has already protected it's land with a multi million dollar dyke system however us fisherman aren't important enough even after years and years of declining fisheries in this river it's been left to nature.Im.not getting any younger so I feel it's time to get it back to fish able conditions of the 80 s and 90s especially with ever increasing threats to sportfishermans opportunity
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ednXhLcwZz0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ednXhLcwZz0)
http://peter-mulroy.squarespace.com/how-do-rivers-change-over-time/ (http://peter-mulroy.squarespace.com/how-do-rivers-change-over-time/)
Here's a good one for kids:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/riversandcoasts/rivers/change_river/pg_25.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/riversandcoasts/rivers/change_river/pg_25.shtml)
And though I don't think we should introduce wolves to the river in question this is a good video:
https://youtu.be/mCkZ0p-OY4o (https://youtu.be/mCkZ0p-OY4o)
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Cammer,
I think your time estimate is quite close. It was the late 90's or early 2000's when the log jam and gravel deposit at the bottom end of the Bible camp run blew out. It was basically a natural deflection structure that diverted the majority of the flow to the Conference Run and then to the hatchery hole and the long, straight run below it. This directed significant flow and fish to come up the Pretty's side and through the hatchery hole. I have about 28 years of personal catch records on the Chehalis and the numbers of steelhead and other fish have certainly declined. Numbers of wild fish have really declined as well. So, though improving brood stock capture and bringing back fishable flows to the hatchery side would certainly improve things, there is an unfortunate decline that has nothing to do with the present river course. That said, I think directing flow would be a great place to start and would certainly improve brood capture and accessibility.i would love to see it happen.
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I'm thinking your correct about overall numbers. I'm on brood stock program for the Chehalis and man its getting really really bad for winter runs, summer runs I haven't really followed as close but know they have declined as well. When river went by hatchery, there was a large netted fish pen.in the hatchery outlet channel which allowed sport fisherman to place wild fish in pen. Lucky anglers would get a hat for that too...lol.. if the hatchery channel is moved then the hatchery again will have a pen out at confluence to allow brood captures along with the benefits of staging/slowing fish down before they enter canyon
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During the time period you speak of late 90's - if you stood on the bridge and looked downstream the deepest part of the river hugged the left bank and stayed against the dike.
That large flood event deposited a wack load of gravel at the top end of the dike and last I looked at it was causing the river to push back toward the campground side before going back into its "original" path against the dike
I know it seems counterintuitive, but if a rip-rap dike were built along the campground side angling into the side channel leading to the hatchery - it wouldn't be long before the river started to dig (deepen) along that side with a little help.
Because the river is now so flat below the bridge, several well placed loader scoops near the campground riffle/ gravel deposit should cause the necessary diversion.
It's possibly experimental, but think of all the rip-rap placed along the vedder - the river doesn't rebound off the rip-rap at right angles - it channels and deepens and eventually angles away at 15-20 degrees - to get the river in the position to enter the side channel a dike would have to be started much closer to the bridge than the current one
What about a concrete abutment below the bridge to divide the river - if you narrow the river, speed it up it will dig a channel, might be less expensive than a massive dike
I hope I gave you some food for thought- I too remember those glory days!
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I have not fished the Chehalis river for over 12 years. It used to be awesome river for coho and summer and winter steelheads. I remember back in early 90's the winter steelheads and would stack up like logs around hatchery channel in April. The coho were thick as fleas too. My favorite run was gravel bar across from the Bible Camp. Used to able to drive there and fished behind my pickup tailgate. Had some awesome 30 plus coho days.
Silex user
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Anything that works would be fine with me. I just know something has to be done. Since I /BCFDF were initially turned down , fishing has gotten worse and worse and worse. Truly sad as hell when you know what it could be . All I can do is try, I would love to get a group together with some pull and support from chehalis band to improve the chances of something getting done
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The Chehalis River Hatchery works in partnership with the Chehalis First Nation and the Freshwater Fisheries Society of B.C. on various projects.
Straight from the DFO website http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/sep-pmvs/projects-projets/chehalis/chehalis-eng.html
Please DFO tell us more about those "various projects"!
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Cammer you still trying to toss your brood tube across the river only to have it get washed away downstream? :P
The river will always want to push straight through any object in its way. Look at the slides between Slesse and Alison pools on the Chilliwack system, one day the river will flow through that mountain of clay. The best thing to do would be reroute the outflow of the hatchery to the main river using what used to be the main river bed. I wouldn't even make any changes to the current dyke along the healing center. There is going to be so many permits and regulations involved to do so it will be silly. With all the cutbacks of this current day and age it's going to be very unlikely to have something done. The money to build hatcheries in the late 70's and early 80's is LOOOOOOOONG gone.
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I agree. Difficult to achieve now a days however there is/ are monies if you've looked in right areas. Question is how much will it cost, ? A deflection rip rap wall works great as it has for many many years on vedder at bottom of Wilson on Native land, and if my friend across the stream wasn't asleep he could of waded and got that tube.
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My family managed the Lodge property for twenty years starting back in 1980. We tried to get fisheries to address the rising river bed every year as the flooding of our property got worse every year. I could stand on our dikes, looking at the river in the distance, and the river level would be over my head.
Nothing was ever done, it was up to us and the Chehalis Band to try and divert the water and decrease the damage it was causing. I use to pick up trailers of dead coho and chum after the floods left them scattered across our property.
Getting them to do anything to this river seems to be a waste of resources and time from past experience. Very sad to see an easy limit fishery tank into another mismanaged tax payer money pit (hatchery).